DEV reddit AMA- "ANT will most likely be the Sunderer with an ANT module" says WHO?

[blampoet]

I looked through the 500 messages on the board (actually, i didn't... i searched the words ANT and/or SUND*)

and NO WHERE does it mention this...
where does this line come from?

[Cookiecrumbs]

Malorn mentioned it here:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/1rxjym/we_are_the_planetside_2_dev_team_ask_us_anything/cds1td6?context=3

[HereticusXZ]

What's the point of other vehicles when the Sunderer is the end all do all vehicle? Most health, heaviest armor, Basilisks are terrifying when upgraded, AMS, Gate Shield Diffuser, etc and NOW it's getting a ANT?

The Sunderer' just getting dumb now...

[Qwan]

I dont know I think that the sundy being used as an ant is cool, Hellll Im just glad that they are bringing back the whole concept of the ant idea and requiring units to charge bases that are running low on energy. I just hope that they bring back the Idea of the gal being able to load vehicles as well as the load star, then were going to start to see some real co-op in this game.

I just want to get past the optimization phase and get into all these changes that they are talking about soon.

[Canaris]

I have an inkling that this new energy system will become a bit of disaster for PS2 bases, unlike PS1 we don't have the ability to load up ANTs into the Galaxy and air drop them into bases in order to get past the siege lines / zerg fronts.

All ANTs will have to go cross country and be very exposed.

[Eggy]

I have an inkling that this new energy system will become a bit of disaster for PS2 bases, unlike PS1 we don't have the ability to load up ANTs into the Galaxy and air drop them into bases in order to get past the siege lines / zerg fronts.

All ANTs will have to go cross country and be very exposed.

In the videos I saw a while ago this ^^ is an intended feature and not a "negative".

At the moment we have a scenatrio where 1 empire can have zero pressence on a continent except for the masses at 1 base "the crown". Without power this fight cannot go on and on and on for days, like it does now.

It was also supposed to link into the fabled mission system. Creating missions for the defenders to defend the ANT and a mission for attackers to nail it. A pleasant side effect of this would be to create stuff for vehicle players to do that isnt camping bases and doors, especialy if the placement of the power supplys is sensible and out of the way.

I am disapointed they are using the sunderer for this. It was suggested there would be different sizes of ANTs and different sizes of the power source.

[Sledgecrushr]

I am very happy the ant is going to be the sunderer. Sundy is just an all around awesome platform for utilitarian use.

[Carbon Copied]

I'd rather see a new vehicle take on the role of the AMS/ANT (one vehicle 2 cert lines) - give the Sunderer more of it's specialized emphasis on convoy support / offensive / troop movement back rather than just yet another jack of all trades object.

Being able to spawn from, carry a full squad (and "rumour control" potentially squad spawn inside of) and do everything bar whistle Dixie is just plain dumb and says to me: lazy.

[SturmovikDrakon]

It had better be a module that at least makes some significant cosmetic changes.

I know it's easier for SOE to use the Sundy as the all-purpose-vehicle, but come on...

The Sunderer itself is, imo, one ugly truck

[Qwan]

I have an inkling that this new energy system will become a bit of disaster for PS2 bases, unlike PS1 we don't have the ability to load up ANTs into the Galaxy and air drop them into bases in order to get past the siege lines / zerg fronts.

All ANTs will have to go cross country and be very exposed.

Yea that is going to be a big issue, I mean if the crown needs a refuel of power, driving from one of the warp gates to it is going to be one wild ass ride. LOL

[SgtMAD]

this is the worst idea ever,the reality of having to do ant runs in PS was a nightmare,and this is from a guy that had plenty of members to do the actual runs and we did them ad naseum for almost a decade.

the idea that we are going to see sundys doing these runs on the maps we see now is going to "fun" for about a week then the bitching about losing bases because ppl are draining them is "unfair" will be all over the forums.

missing ant runs are NOT whats wrong with this game and to add them at this point is ridiculous.the idea that ppl are going to "pay" for the sundy to do the run is comical.

[HereticusXZ]

To hell with the Sunderer, it does everything, it's just stupid now.

Make the ANT it's own vehicle. While your at it introduce the Loadstar!

[Whiteagle]

I know it's easier for SOE to use the Sundy as the all-purpose-vehicle, but come on...
To hell with the Sunderer, it does everything, it's just stupid now.

Make the ANT it's own vehicle. While your at it introduce the Loadstar!
Yeah, I've got to agree here, the Sunderer has enough features as it is...

ANTs need to be vulnerable, so they shouldn't carry two guns and a squad worth of guys...

Even if it IS just a reskinned Sundie, it should be it's own entity, a truck that MAYBE has room for a passenger and the rest is cargo space.
No Terminals, no AMS, no Guns, just a truck that handles a bit more like a Harasser than a Bus...

...Fuck, just reskin the HARASSER!
It's a JOY to drive, and I've used the damn front bumper for more kills then the weapons!

And yes, try to bring back the Loadstar, or at least an Aerial ANT...

[Babyfark McGeez]

The problem with piling all kinds of shit on the sunderer is (apart from it obviously being fucking lazy), it removes any information when dealing with a sunderer and turns it into a bloody guessing game.

Oh, there is a sundy. Is it an Ams? Is it an offensive variant? An Ant? Ammo supply? Who the fuck knows.
On offense that means i can't put priorites on them like i should be able to, and on defense it means i don't know what the friendly sundy is going to do. Will he need support for an Ant run? Will he need support to deploy? Will he go and hunt harassers? Fuck, who knows.

Same goes for turning the Gal into a Loadstar via cert bullshit, because c'mon, at this point you just know that is what's going to happen. Does it carry a vehicle? Is it just being used for a drop? Bah...

But it's probably all part of dumbing this shit down more because they assume console players are even more braindead consumer zombies than pc "casuals".

[typhaon]

It's about resources and time.

Which is worrisome to say the least... especially when we see corners being cut on something that should be a foundational part of gameplay.

[Carbon Copied]

It's about resources and time.

Which is worrisome to say the least... especially when we see corners being cut on something that should be a foundational part of gameplay.

As much as I hate the waiting game, I might be among the few who are happy to wait for "right" more so than "make do". If they have any pride in their work what so ever I'd like to think the former is applicable - but thus far... well the ball hasn't really left the SOE side of the court yet.

Overall though I know a few of the devs have mentioned they don't want to create a single vehicle (Malorn and T-Ray spring to mind at some point having broached that) to fulfill a single role - which to be fair I get that side of the argument however it's kind of moot if the AMS and ANT were on a shared chassis (independently equipped) and expand/establish the sunderer to be more of a troop mover/line smasher/line support vehicle. Yes.. specialization time and meaningful progression! That feeling of the "go to guy" when it comes to a certain task.

I'm not sure ANT runs would be as much of a pain as in PS1 as there's considerably more outpost cluttering the landscape (unfortunately) between main installations - I think they would have to re-evaluate the number of outposts or change some to non-contestable/linked (different topic) to bring the vehicle play (all round) into it - as it is bases are so convenient you could "sprint-hand-carry" the ores from source to power node and that's just dumb....

[Rivenshield]

Driving an ANT in the old days was dangerous and boring -- for the driver. Yet it added tremendously to the gameplay for everybody else, and incentivized teamplay amongst both defenders and attackers to make sure it arrived -- or didn't.

I frankly cannot imagine driving a slow, fat, slippery-footed Sunderer over the channelized terrain we have. The runs will take five-ten minutes, with even odds of driving off the road into a canyon to avoid enemy fire or getting blown up. It would make old ANT runs look like a dream. The new ANT is going to have to be faster and surer-footed, and it ought to fit into the back of a correctly-certed Galaxy.

I vote for the Harasser. And I vote for the Gal to be able to carry light vehicles again. Anything else will be a monstrous blunder.

[Timealude]

I vote for the Harasser. And I vote for the Gal to be able to carry light vehicles again. Anything else will be a monstrous blunder.

After they do the update to the Harasser, I highly doubt it will be viable as an energy transport. Being able to damage something like that with normal arms would be very easy to take them out and even worse so if a lib gets over it.

I want a new vehicle as well or hell if we really wanted to go all out...I want an actual trailer for the sundy and you can fill that up....but thats just a pipe dream. :rolleyes:

[Selerox]

What's the point of other vehicles when the Sunderer is the end all do all vehicle? Most health, heaviest armor, Basilisks are terrifying when upgraded, AMS, Gate Shield Diffuser, etc and NOW it's getting a ANT?

The Sunderer' just getting dumb now...

The Sunderer is supposed to be able to do a lot of things. It's the workhorse that drives the Empires.

If anything I'd be a little upset if they didn't make the Sunderer the vehicle that enables resource delivery. Why make it a specialist vehicle that would exclude newer players, when you could cert into a variant of the existing utility vehicle?

There's nothing wrong with a vehicle being able to do a lot of things. The only problem comes when that vehicle can do a number of those things at once.

The Sunderer should be able to do AMS, ANT, Diffuser, AA, repair, ammo, support and any number of other things. But crucially it shouldn't be able to do multiple roles at once. Right now it absolutely fits that definition, so I don't see any reason why you couldn't have an ANT function.

I'd love to see the Galaxy get even close to the same versatility of the Sunderer. I don't necessarily think the Galaxy should be a part of the ANT system (although the ability to air drop resources into a cut-off base is an appealing one, but it needs to be able to be certed to do a variety of rolls.

Right now it's a one-way ticket into fire. It shouldn't be that way.

[Timithos]

At the moment we have a scenatrio where 1 empire can have zero pressence on a continent except for the masses at 1 base "the crown". Without power this fight cannot go on and on and on for days, like it does now.

Crown fights haven't been like that for months ever since they changed the cap point locations. Are you still playing Planetside now?

[Ghoest9]

Driving an ANT in the old days was dangerous and boring -- for the driver. Yet it added tremendously to the gameplay for everybody else, and incentivized teamplay amongst both defenders and attackers to make sure it arrived -- or didn't.

I frankly cannot imagine driving a slow, fat, slippery-footed Sunderer over the channelized terrain we have. The runs will take five-ten minutes, with even odds of driving off the road into a canyon to avoid enemy fire or getting blown up. It would make old ANT runs look like a dream. The new ANT is going to have to be faster and surer-footed, and it ought to fit into the back of a correctly-certed Galaxy.

I vote for the Harasser. And I vote for the Gal to be able to carry light vehicles again. Anything else will be a monstrous blunder.


NOTHING was worse than being forced to drive an ANT for the good of your side even though you hated doing it.
It just made you want to log off and play a different game(usually DAoC back then) .

[Carbon Copied]

-snip-

How does creating an extra/specialist vehicle exclude new players when you can pull anything, anytime and pretty much anywhere right down to the moment you walk out the warp gate spawn room as a new player? You don't really back up your opinion of why other than "because I think so".

There are positives and negatives for both sides of the coin yes but in any case there is no excuse for lazy design and "bolt on" methods - which I'd not find it hard to say almost all sunderer utilities are.

[Blynd]

The sundy is the jack of all trades make do at launch vehicle. We need to split it down and add more unique vehicles. If the ant is to be a module then it should be for the harresser/es buggys only and a new gal varient needs to be done to allow vehicle transports to some bases cause looik at skydock you can't drive a harresser into the base.

[camycamera]

i can understand making it a module for the sundy, but the sundy handles terribly, can carry 12 people, and packs a punch (basilisks). they either need to

1. make the module completely visually change the look of the sundy and the way it drives, and remove troop transport abilities and offensive abilities.

2. like someone else said, give it to the harasser, and do the same as above.

3. make an entirely new vehicle.

many are arguing 3, but making it specialised just for one thing is not really the way to go in this game.

however, if you were to have that new vehicle be able to specialise in many other instances.... maybe like a portable cloaker for vehicles? i don't know, but maybe the new vehicle could focus purely on defensive/objective-based instances, like the ANT and cloak thingy.


but for now, we'll just have to wait and see.

[HereticusXZ]

I -HATE- the idea of giving the ANT to a pre-existing vehicle. I want a new vehicle because the same old lineup is stale, Especially don't give it to a Sunderer because as is - with certed Basilisks you have no reason to pull any other vehicle!
It has AMS, Gate Shield Diffuser, Blockade Armor making it the most sponge like vehicle in the game (next to a Galaxy), It carries 12 players - right now we have no idea in-game how many crew a enemy vehicle, Could be solo, could be a full squad of enemy MAX, I don't know! Sunderer's are the end all do anything vehicle, Beyond cost of resources you have no reason to pull anything else when a army of Sunderer's kills everything!

But with all that put aside...


If you're going to give the ANT to any pre-existing vehicle, give it to the Galaxy! Galaxies need a reason to be kept alive and not just pull, taxi, and forget. What a waste of resources....

Giving a ANT to a Galaxy also gives players more incentive to tag along with pilots who have geared and enjoy the Galaxy Gunship role instead of gun and forget. Everyone wants to gun a Lib, MBT, or Harasser but do you know how frustrating it is to find gunners for a Galaxy in a Squad/Platoon/Outfit?

[Oty]

I rather think it's a good idea too give the ANT to the sundy. here is why:
1. It's a truck! From a logical point of view there is no reason for an empire (I know its a game but still) to build a new vehicle for energy transport if they already got a stable truck to put some energy canister into.

2. It's durable! remember there is 2000 players on each continent, and alot of firepower can be directed at one place at one time. For any chance of delivering to a base heavily under siege then one needs a heavily protected vehicle.

3. It has firepower! same reason as above. If the sundy is target for a mission it will have to defend itself from alot of things. Here it's ability to carry infantry for further protection comes in handy aswell.

4. It's quite big! to balance out that it has armour and firepower, it is also a quite big target for the enemy to hit.

5. optimization! I assume that the less different types of vehicles that needs to be rendered during a figth the better the game will run. (just an assumption, correct me if I'm wrong)

Also, to load the ANT vehicle in a galaxy and just drop it where needed seems too easy, even though it needs some skill.

However if any of you played BF vietnam, in this game there was the possibility to airlift vehicles. i.e the helicopters could send down a rope and eg. snag a tank. Fly with it to a destination and drop it in. the tank was exposed during the flight but could shoot.
If this feature was added to the galaxy then we suddenly have a high skill, high risk, high reward situation. It would also require teamwork in the air and on the ground.

[ringring]

The sundy is the jack of all trades make do at launch vehicle. We need to split it down and add more unique vehicles. If the ant is to be a module then it should be for the harresser/es buggys only and a new gal varient needs to be done to allow vehicle transports to some bases cause looik at skydock you can't drive a harresser into the base.

Do we know that outposts will require refilling, perhaps it is just limited to main bases.

Even if it does include outposts look at all those on Esamir where you can't get a vehicle inside the walls - so the refill terminal will have to be located outside and if so the term at skydock could be down below.

[SgtMAD]

I just wonder who's bright idea it was to stop the loss of the playerbase by adding an ant to the game?

I am pretty damn sure the problems run much deeper than that.

[Calista]

I just wonder who's bright idea it was to stop the loss of the playerbase by adding an ant to the game?

I am pretty damn sure the problems run much deeper than that.

For sure but I think this is an attempt to make resources actually matter. The middle of this game is ok, it's the beginning and end that are hurting pop retention. The new player experience is abysmal and there is no real end game whatsoever. Alerts try but just encourage empire hopping and are not very creative in their content.

Anyway, wonder if they could hold off until those new vehicles get released and proclaim them the ANT. Sundy just does enough already.

[Blynd]

Do we know that outposts will require refilling, perhaps it is just limited to main bases.

Even if it does include outposts look at all those on Esamir where you can't get a vehicle inside the walls - so the refill terminal will have to be located outside and if so the term at skydock could be down below.

I don't but if they were to put the refuling area outside of a base how would you stop a ton of armour just camping it till the base is drained ????

Also by making a dropship you allow for interesting base design in the future rather then the vanilla stuff we have now. Because you dint have to worry about can an ant get in it.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

Does anyone really think adding this PS1 mechanic into PS2 is going to work any better than previous PS1 additions?

PS1 base siege, entrances could be pushed out from, OSs deployed, CY cleared of CE with EMPs, ANT dropped and shielded by Gal/Lode, pray for 20-30% NTU, repeat. Some co-ordination required.

PS2 base siege, vehicles camping every door, shield and exit. Hordes of Airchavs/Libtards hovering over bases, silo locations probably in extremely exposed location which you will have to drive past the ever present armour zerg camping around the base. Airlifts? Airchav can fly from warpgate to warpgate in about a minute, you'll get picked up 10 seconds after leaving by anyone with a clue.

The only times I can see NTU being an issue is in the larger fights where there's just simply too many people (3way stalemate zergfest) and then any attempt to resupply will just get insta-nuked.

The only base it might work with is Biolabs since a lot of the attackers will actually be inside whilst the 'Silo' will be outside.

[Baneblade]

Speaking from experience, the people who hated ANTs in PS1 were the same people that never pulled one, they just demanded someone else do it and went on a rant if nobody did. Yet somehow there was plenty of people pulling ANTs and most of the time it was the unassuming guy you'd never heard of. Not everyone is a killwhore and only killwhores truly hated ANTs. Bringing an ANT into a base under siege solo is one of the most triumphant achievements ever had in a PlanetSide game. Bring them to PS2 and the players who enjoy logistics will have even more content.

Just don't make it into another gimmick to bilk players for money.

[SgtMAD]

I ran as many ants as anyone that ever played PS and played with guys that would all pull an ant if needed.

we would run ants into red alerted bases all the damn time,but thats not what is missing in this game, the problems run far deeper than that and this ant dev time could be better used to fix other numerous problems in-game or actually add content that will retain the plauerbase

[Baneblade]

The resource system needs an overhaul, that is undisputed. If the ANTs only need to be run to major bases keeping the outposts on 'connected power', it won't have the impact you are predicting. The problem I see has much more to do with the way PS2 handles vehicles, it will literally punish whomever pulls the ANT.

We need to be able to pull fresh vehicles with different configurations without a timer or cost, as long as it is the same type as what you already have pulled and you have a live vehicle that can be 'recycled'. This will help Sunderer operators to want to do ANT runs without punishing them for putting the empire first.

ANT XP should also be at least on par with base caps.

[Badjuju]

this is the worst idea ever,the reality of having to do ant runs in PS was a nightmare,and this is from a guy that had plenty of members to do the actual runs and we did them ad naseum for almost a decade.

the idea that we are going to see sundys doing these runs on the maps we see now is going to "fun" for about a week then the bitching about losing bases because ppl are draining them is "unfair" will be all over the forums.

missing ant runs are NOT whats wrong with this game and to add them at this point is ridiculous.the idea that ppl are going to "pay" for the sundy to do the run is comical.

Most fights don't last long enough for that to be an issue. Bio labs really. The point is tho give objectives in the environment to fight for and provide better vehicle game play or just use of all the map. I think it has the potential to add some fun dynamics to the game but still to early to tell.

[blampoet]

We need to be able to pull fresh vehicles with different configurations without a timer or cost,

i remember that being part of the resource overhaul- even though they weren't sure what would replace it.
refund on the certs spent on timer was also mentioned.

[Whiteagle]

The resource system needs an overhaul, that is undisputed. If the ANTs only need to be run to major bases keeping the outposts on 'connected power', it won't have the impact you are predicting. The problem I see has much more to do with the way PS2 handles vehicles, it will literally punish whomever pulls the ANT.

We need to be able to pull fresh vehicles with different configurations without a timer or cost, as long as it is the same type as what you already have pulled and you have a live vehicle that can be 'recycled'. This will help Sunderer operators to want to do ANT runs without punishing them for putting the empire first.

ANT XP should also be at least on par with base caps.
Personally, I'd rather see the ANT (or rather ANTs) as its own entry.
Resources need overhauling BADLY, mostly because they were first simplified into three BROAD categories that only applied to their specific theatre... and were then just sort of grouped together on the map as a ham-handed attempt to coerce cooperation between various play styles.
I think if ANTs are going to use pre-existing vehicles as their basis, they should at least be their own unarmed variants, possibly less expensive or outright free of cost.
That said, I think FUNCTIONAL Warpgates will help greatly when it comes to Vehicle Purchases, since how often have you been forced to abandon a tank you JUST pulled because you’re squad is moving off Continent?

[BlaxicanX]

I'm dubious of the idea that an ANT would ever be able to get into a besieged base. I don't know how things worked in PS1, but in PS2 most zergs are armor zergs. I don't see how an ANT-run is going to work when there will be about 30 AP tanks taking aim at it once it gets within 100 meters of a base.

[Whiteagle]

I'm dubious of the idea that an ANT would ever be able to get into a besieged base. I don't know how things worked in PS1, but in PS2 most zergs are armor zergs. I don't see how an ANT-run is going to work when there will be about 30 AP tanks taking aim at it once it gets within 100 meters of a base.
Well Tanks were a lot rarer sight in Planetside, you needed to specially certify into Heavy Armored Vehicles to pull one, so they were a third tier unlock...
Still, Combat Engineering was way more common, and actual minefields didn't stop ANT runs.
Plus there was the fact that NTU was needed regardless AND Infiltrators could hack Vehicles, so if you were just waiting to flip the Base you'd might as well let the enemy fill it up.

And again, there is both the Galaxy and the Loadstar, both could load and drop ANTs.

[Ogre]

about the Ant sunderer, and planetside in general. I personally feel the game is still very much a paid beta. I enjoy the product enough that I am happy to give SOE my monthly fee. The game has to have cashflow to get better, so whatever. I got the money to burn, not everyone does.

I suspect the future modules will dramatically change how a sunderer looks/ feels. I imagine it looking like a short Semi Truck with an empty bed. What you slap on the back changes what you can do with it. Crew compartment? Get guns. Ant module? Get energy. Respawn AMS? Get a cloak unit. The sunderer will probably go on to have a dedicated two man crew cab up front.

I personally feel that this is not the end of the changes. That our current equip system is in its infancy, and even simple things like "frames" racer/ etc, will actually change a vehicle's appearance or operation. Thats my hope, time will tell. If planetside 2 for PS4 is a good seller, I suspect we will see more rapid changes. Just sucks that PC was a beta test for it, still, I like planetside and can deal with that.

To finish this one up. You guys, as a community, are really unorganized. You need to get together here, pile up a list of concise questions to ask the devs at the next AMA, and make that happen. "hey how will a sunderer ANT work? Will it have weapons? blah blah blah" instead I see complaints with no solutions offered, no further thought put into them.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

instead I see complaints with no solutions offered, no further thought put into them.

The vast majority of people who would bother to put the effort into that have long since stopped playing or bothering... because SOE didn't listen to them anyway and will do their usual stumble along making the mistakes pointed out here months in advance.

PS2 won't change significantly because of SOEs design decisions from the start, tacking on random PS1 mechanics won't work because there is no inter-relation between the mechanics for them to work/be useful/have a real impact anyway.

[Baneblade]

I see complaints with no solutions offered, no further thought put into them.

Well, you can't just crash a party half way through and expect it to be as awesome as it was in the first hour. This forum is filled to the seams with good ideas and changes that SOE has ignored or outright mocked when they tried to implement them.

[Malorn]

Says me!

I had a good discussion with Kevmo about it a few months ago, we agreed that the ANT made sense as a Sunderer mod and not a standalone vehicle. The reasons are:

1) It adds more value to the Sundy, so all the players who certed one up and have weapons and cosmetics will get more mileage out of their investments. It's essentially a support vehicle, so giving the support vehicle more value made more sense than creating a new support vehicle.

2) The ANT as a standalone vehicle wasn't compelling enough to warrant a new vehicle. If we're going to make it, it needs to be more interesting than just a power transport vehicle, and that feature-creeps it a lot more than is reasonable.

3) We have already created the Sundy as a utility vehicle by putting the AMS module, the repair module, and the rearm module. It makes sense to add to that for other support utility functionality.

And yes, I would like to see some significant cosmetic differences so you can easily differentiate an ANT sundy from an AMS sundy, as well as the difference between a full ANT and an empty ANT. Don't know how far it'll get, but that's the goal.

[Blynd]

Well that's nice to at least be told why your going with the windy and that you do want a visual difference between them and regular sundys. I'd love to see a visual difference between an ams su du and an armour one.

[Carbon Copied]

-snip-

I honestly don't see the problem of the Sunderer being used if your plan is to make it look aesthetically different i.e increasingly more distinct from variant to variant. However:


Why does using the Sunderer to do everything give it more value? It costs the same resources and cool down as if you were to pull AMS/Repair/Ammo variants - no dynamic costing based on loadouts used which makes this point of adding value pretty much void when you can pull it anytime and where.


Seats 12 no matter what utility you put on it - wheres the logistic management, deeper customization and risk/reward of that? If I chose to AMS/ANT my sunderer (as example), shouldn't there be sacrifices to accommodate this and create the "you pull an S-AMS and I'll pull the escort Sunderer?" decision/thinking - the fact it can defend itself and essentially not rely on third party support I believe is what makes it considerably more boring in the first place.


You also should think about bringing the Sunderer design wise back into context of the game - why is it bigger than an MBT and have all the futuristic look, feel and handling of a Renault E-Space? (this by the way isn't a good thing)

Overall you can sugar coat the changes and decisions all you please but it doesn't change the fact its largely boring, soul-less and lacking any depth. Although that's a tune the masses have come to dance to quite well by now.

[BlaxicanX]

You probably won't be ABLE to pull an AMS/ANT sunderer. I don't know why that is so hard a concept to grasp.

The ANT module will almost certainly be in the same utility category as AMS, ammo, repair, etc. So that means that you'll be able to choose ONE of those utilities and nothing else. It can't be an ANT and an AMS.

So the only thing it'll still have is guns and a 12-man carrying capacity. Who the hell cares? Guns will be necessary because this isn't Planetside 1- ANY vehicle without guns is a dead vehicle in this game, sans maybe the flash which is so small and fast that it can escape detection.

No one ever uses the 12-man transport capacity for any serious transportation or assaulting, they use the AMS, so the vehicle having said capacity is hardly giving it duel-roles.

Your complaints don't hold water when you look at the reality of the game.

[Blynd]

If like to see the AMS ammo repair all in the same option so you can only pick one that would make it more interesting and also the defenders would have to try and work out which one is the ams so its not just an easy there is a sundy go kill it cause its an ams. We all pull ams with ammo or repair it shoud be exclusive.

[Carbon Copied]

@Blaxican

I'm sure you're right you won't be able to combine AMS and ANT I didn't say otherwise - maybe when I put ANT/AMS you misread it and not as an alternative. No hard to grasp concepts beyond that of reading.

I was trying to put the point across of increasing the risk/reward for the choices made on the sunderer e.g (equipped with AMS or ANT) I can only seat 5; however if I run my support or battle sunderer (equipped with GSD or similar) I have maximum capacity etc. as well as maybe a dynamic resource cost increasing the "value" that the various utilities equipped hold.
If one random pulls the AMS and drives off - you're right it makes near no difference currently; however down the road (and this is speculating/borderline utopian player base I admit) once continental lattice comes in people are not just spamming S-AMS's where the risk and reward side encourages (but doesn't force) people to look and think about things that are rolling off the vehicle pad to get people to the next place because there will be a greater pop per continent (hopefully).

TL: dr It boils down to the risk/reward aspect not one specific limit of "must have x seats locked" and so forth. There's "does the job" and there's "does the job better" - currently it's "does the job equally well with little thought required outside the box".

[HereticusXZ]

Ammo and Repair are Defense slot options. AMS is Utility slot. If the ANT goes to Utility that means you can't have AMS but you can still have either Ammo or Repair.

Sunderer is the ONLY support vehicle in the game, everything else is strictly speaking offensive or defensive. 13 vehicles in the game and only 1 support?

Galaxy and Flash exist only to taxi players and minor offensive options between Wraith module and battle gal.

Liberator, ESF, MBT, and Harasser all exist almost exclusively as offensive options.

Lightning between a HEAT, AP, or HE cannon is used offensively, or Skyguard defensively.

Situations vary from player to player pending the environment there in and the individual playstyle but the fact remains that the Sunderer is the only vehicle in the game that carries a mobile spawn, repairs allies, supply's allies, and can gate shield diffuser or blockade as a battle-sundy.

With the Sunderer being the end all beat all do everything vehicle, shouldn't there be more support vehicles added to balance this grossly giant number of offensive vehicles? Such as making the ANT it's own unique vehicle, there's plenty of appeal with the siege mechanic it has!

[Baneblade]

Says me!

I had a good discussion with Kevmo about it a few months ago, we agreed that the ANT made sense as a Sunderer mod and not a standalone vehicle. The reasons are:

1) It adds more value to the Sundy, so all the players who certed one up and have weapons and cosmetics will get more mileage out of their investments. It's essentially a support vehicle, so giving the support vehicle more value made more sense than creating a new support vehicle.

2) The ANT as a standalone vehicle wasn't compelling enough to warrant a new vehicle. If we're going to make it, it needs to be more interesting than just a power transport vehicle, and that feature-creeps it a lot more than is reasonable.

3) We have already created the Sundy as a utility vehicle by putting the AMS module, the repair module, and the rearm module. It makes sense to add to that for other support utility functionality.

And yes, I would like to see some significant cosmetic differences so you can easily differentiate an ANT sundy from an AMS sundy, as well as the difference between a full ANT and an empty ANT. Don't know how far it'll get, but that's the goal.

It would also be nice if AMS/ANT Sunderers and such were not fully combat capable transports with full armaments.

[Vashyo]

I too, would prefer some simple vehicle like in PS1. If only for having more vehicle variety in the game and besides sundys the only support vehicle in the whole game.

I certainly hope we get some more vehicles in the future, its been over a year and the only addition has been the harasser. :/

[Ogre]

I need to comment on the Sunderer do all situation. I played planetside 1, and I really like the variety of vehicles, if only for new and exciting things to kill. My only complaint about an ANT sunderer, is that it will take exactly the same amount of effort to kill as any other. Perhaps this is not an overly bad thing, I will have to see on PST.

However since we are bringing back ant functionality, I have a suggestion. Individual Nanite resource pool for vehicles, perhaps even infantry. "But Ogre, are you insane, or what does this even mean?!" I am super glad you asked. At a minimum, vehicles that repair/ resupply should have a bar of "nanites" and as they distribute out their ammo, repairs, AMS respawns, etc, it is depleted. An ANT could refuel this, or you could wander back to a warpgate or whatever point is implemented. Medics and Engineers could run out of nanites to repair and heal and have to backtrack for supplies. The infantry side should be a slower drain, and able to refuel at hacked terminals.

A sub idea is to cut the number of ammo towers, or remove them all together. This par is ignorable but the implications are worth a discussion.

What does this force? the meta. resources. Supply lines. Sure you can zerg, but you cant zerg forever without some logistics, the further you get the more work it takes. Simply parking your ammo sunderer, or repair vehicle, or hiding an AMS, wont last forever. Perhaps for 3-10 minutes at full draw, but you are gonna need ANT support. The time is adjustable to taste, just my own ideas there.

From there we bring in galaxies as a true counterpart in utility. Instead of a whole new airframe, we get a utility module that is something like "mag (magnetic) crane" It would simply allow a galaxy to hover low over a vehicle and pick it up. different tiers for different vehicles. Carried underneath it externally.

Another module could be a cargo bay, land, vehicles drive up and in. I know I'm getting too far ahead of myself, but really. Just a patch dedicated to adding logistics to the game would be greater then any new vehicle or weapon.

[Whiteagle]

To finish this one up. You guys, as a community, are really unorganized. You need to get together here, pile up a list of concise questions to ask the devs at the next AMA, and make that happen. "hey how will a sunderer ANT work? Will it have weapons? blah blah blah" instead I see complaints with no solutions offered, no further thought put into them.

The vast majority of people who would bother to put the effort into that have long since stopped playing or bothering... because SOE didn't listen to them anyway and will do their usual stumble along making the mistakes pointed out here months in advance.

PS2 won't change significantly because of SOEs design decisions from the start, tacking on random PS1 mechanics won't work because there is no inter-relation between the mechanics for them to work/be useful/have a real impact anyway.
You see Orge, a large number of us did this kind of critical thinking WAY back in Beta, in fact...

about the Ant sunderer, and planetside in general. I personally feel the game is still very much a paid beta. I enjoy the product enough that I am happy to give SOE my monthly fee. The game has to have cashflow to get better, so whatever. I got the money to burn, not everyone does.

I suspect the future modules will dramatically change how a sunderer looks/ feels. I imagine it looking like a short Semi Truck with an empty bed. What you slap on the back changes what you can do with it. Crew compartment? Get guns. Ant module? Get energy. Respawn AMS? Get a cloak unit. The sunderer will probably go on to have a dedicated two man crew cab up front.
You're suggestion was one of the first threads I made here... (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=47822)

Says me!

I had a good discussion with Kevmo about it a few months ago, we agreed that the ANT made sense as a Sunderer mod and not a standalone vehicle. The reasons are:

1) It adds more value to the Sundy, so all the players who certed one up and have weapons and cosmetics will get more mileage out of their investments. It's essentially a support vehicle, so giving the support vehicle more value made more sense than creating a new support vehicle.

2) The ANT as a standalone vehicle wasn't compelling enough to warrant a new vehicle. If we're going to make it, it needs to be more interesting than just a power transport vehicle, and that feature-creeps it a lot more than is reasonable.

3) We have already created the Sundy as a utility vehicle by putting the AMS module, the repair module, and the rearm module. It makes sense to add to that for other support utility functionality.

And yes, I would like to see some significant cosmetic differences so you can easily differentiate an ANT sundy from an AMS sundy, as well as the difference between a full ANT and an empty ANT. Don't know how far it'll get, but that's the goal.
But Malorn, not only does the Sunderer already do practically everything, adding MORE features are just going to devalue the ones it already has!

Assuming the ANT Tank is going to be a Utility Slot, it's going to compete with AMS and maybe the Gate Shield Diffuser, while further marginalizing the Smoke Screen, Proximity Radar, and Fire Suppression System options.

Now I like that, like the Harrasser, the Sunderer is a rather beastly combat machine when properly crewed, but if it's the go to vehicle for EVERYTHING in the game you are going to create nothing but Sunderer spam.
ANT's not having weapons is there defining Tactical flaw, they either need to avoid detection or depend on the rest of their Faction for protection.

While it would be awesome if you could overhauled the entire vehicle load out system to be more than three poorly implemented Slots, I doubt you guys have the resources or time to do so.

So here is my idea...

You use your current Sunderer ANT model, but tweek it so that it is a stand alone vehicle.
No weapons, seats two, but can use all the cosmetics that the Sunderer can and MAYBE has a bit better handling.
BAM! "New" vehicle!
It's not a perfect solution, but...
Seats 12 no matter what utility you put on it - wheres the logistic management, deeper customization and risk/reward of that? If I chose to AMS/ANT my sunderer (as example), shouldn't there be sacrifices to accommodate this and create the "you pull an S-AMS and I'll pull the escort Sunderer?" decision/thinking - the fact it can defend itself and essentially not rely on third party support I believe is what makes it considerably more boring in the first place.


It does provide deeper metagame options due to forced diversity.

[Calista]

This game takes economy of scale to a whole new level doesn't it?

[Ogre]

While I'll take what I can get, I have a suggestion to our benevolent overlords. If an ant were to be created, perhaps a community sourced model would be cool. Something along the lines of "if you guys want it so bad, make it yourself." Multiple rounds of creation, where the best models out of a bunch are picked and then put up for refinement. Mightbecool.

[Calisai]

Says me!

I had a good discussion with Kevmo about it a few months ago, we agreed that the ANT made sense as a Sunderer mod and not a standalone vehicle.

3) We have already created the Sundy as a utility vehicle by putting the AMS module, the repair module, and the rearm module. It makes sense to add to that for other support utility functionality.

And yes, I would like to see some significant cosmetic differences so you can easily differentiate an ANT sundy from an AMS sundy, as well as the difference between a full ANT and an empty ANT. Don't know how far it'll get, but that's the goal.

Please consider making a smaller ANT module for the Harasser (that takes the place of the Rumble seat & possibly gunner as well). Even if it's a smaller capacity... the Harasser is just plain fun to drive... making ANT runs be much more enjoyable.

I think a High-capacity, higher damage soaking, slower moving Sundy ANT, combined with a small-capacity, low damage soaking, but very fast Harasser ANT may make for some interesting play.

[Whiteagle]

While I'll take what I can get, I have a suggestion to our benevolent overlords. If an ant were to be created, perhaps a community sourced model would be cool. Something along the lines of "if you guys want it so bad, make it yourself." Multiple rounds of creation, where the best models out of a bunch are picked and then put up for refinement. Mightbecool.
While Community outsourcing is a great way to free up developer resources, this is going to require more than just a model...

You've got animation, programming, sound design, on top of system integration, all which can be a mess even if you are doing it in-house.

Please consider making a smaller ANT module for the Harasser (that takes the place of the Rumble seat & possibly gunner as well). Even if it's a smaller capacity... the Harasser is just plain fun to drive... making ANT runs be much more enjoyable.

I think a High-capacity, higher damage soaking, slower moving Sundy ANT, combined with a small-capacity, low damage soaking, but very fast Harasser ANT may make for some interesting play.
Indeed...

...I'd personally want to see an Airborne ANT as well.

[raw]

But Malorn, not only does the Sunderer already do practically everything, adding MORE features are just going to devalue the ones it already has!


Couldn't disagree more. In fact, adding the ANT as a module to the sunderer would finally bring some choices & consequences into the game.

Assuming the ANT Tank is going to be a Utility Slot, it's going to compete with AMS and maybe the Gate Shield Diffuser, [...]

Exactly. That's the prime reason the ANT should be on the Sunderer.

[Whiteagle]

Couldn't disagree more. In fact, adding the ANT as a module to the sunderer would finally bring some choices & consequences into the game.
Uh, how?

There are already three Utility options you almost never see on a Sunderer because AMS is mandatory and a Gate Shield Diffuser is situationally useful, adding yet ANOTHER required device is not only going to further devalue those three but also make the Sunderer disproportionably more necessary than every other vehicle!

Why pull TANKS if a properly crewed and equipped ANT Sundie is a far superior Armored Fighting Vehicle?
The game will turn into Sundererside if this happens...

[Rivenshield]

The ANT as a standalone vehicle wasn't compelling enough to warrant a new vehicle. If we're going to make it, it needs to be more interesting than just a power transport vehicle, and that feature-creeps it a lot more than is reasonable.

/mulls it over

/shrugs

Okay. I'll take your word for it. Yours and yours alone, maestro.

I still have a bad feeling about driving that slow, ungainly, slipping-sliding underpowered parade float of a vehicle from the warp gate to... well, to anywhere. It'll make the ANT runs of yesteryear look like happy fun time. The old ANT was demonstrably faster than a Sundie and the continents were smaller. It was also air-portable. I just can't see how this is going to work.

So I'll take it on faith. Multiple nanite-nodes scattered across the continent, perhaps...?

[Baneblade]

The old ANT was demonstrably faster than a Sundie and the continents were smaller.

Actually... the old ANT was as slow as a running MAX. The new ANT was faster than a Sundie. The PS2 Sundie is plenty fast, it just lacks decent ability to negotiate any kind of terrain.

A slow ANT is for the best in any case, so long as the rewards for running ANTs are sufficient compensation for the trouble.

As someone who actually drives the slowest vehicle in the game across continents all the time, it won't be much trouble to drive a Sunderer from the warpgate to fill up bases, I'd be more concerned about capacity. The PS1 ANT could fill up 2.5 bases before needing to refill.