Is the TTK too fast?

[ChipMHazard]

Threat made a good point about my poor wording in the previous thread, so I made a new one.

Clarification of options:
Faster TTK = Less damage required. Easier to kill/destroy your target.
Slower TTK = More damage required. Harder to kill/destroy your target.

Here are some questions for you. Do you think that the latest balance patch has made the TTK faster and if so is the TTK too fast? Of course you should also take server lag into account as that will massively affect the percieved TTK from a player's perspective.

I'm interested in seeing what people think about this, even though it's only been a short while since the patch. Personally my limited experience since the patch makes me say that the TTK is slightly too fast. What do you think?

Just vote for either of the first two options and either of the three last options.

Edit: Sorry about going full on retard with the thread merger attempt. I sadly can't bring your comments over from the other thread.
Sorry.

[Carbon Copied]

I would say that the TTK has become faster mainly exacerbated by the nanoweave changes (now it doesn't affect your HP but the damage received per hit). It definitely feels more along the lines of any fast paced, generic deathmatch, run and gun arena shooter. The problem with this is that the devs don't seem to like anything that revolves around "This feels like..." they like to quote stats and values at you and tell you that there's nothing to see and you should be moving along.

All of the factors now (to me at least) in this game lean towards quick turn over: fast "normal" run, endless sprint, faster TTK etc. I think you could argue that it's definitely PS1 on crack; but it has gone past the point of being full on brain dead and nothing but a bad version of Tribes 2 or UT99.

[Aaron]

This came up a lot during the early days of beta and I never really understood what the difference would be between a fast TTK and a slow TTK. A slower TTK just means you'll be using more bullets, right? It's going to be exactly the same thing but just less realistic, right? Wrong.

I think I'm seeing that a slow TTK would have a very dynamic effect on everything. In order for a game to be a strategy and planning based game, the human mind simply needs more time to think. You could say it "feels" too fast. What you are feeling is a lack of room for some in depth thought. When you add so many units, and then speed them up so much, a person will most likely have a hard time grasping the situation. When you can't understand the situation and plan accordingly because it's so chaotic, you won't have a game based on intelligence; but a game based on numbers.

With a slower TTK, you'd be giving more power to the smaller, organized groups. As it is now, I'd say that the strategy/skill cap on general gameplay is very low, and the power of numbers (with fast TTK = high # of random events) will simply dwarf the power of the skill factor. So, if you set out to make an organized push, it is more likely than not that your plan won't carry much weight and the random factor will nullify it.

Now, am I right about this? Well, maybe and maybe not, but I can tell you that I for sure don't see any organization having any effect on anything right now. If you're going to make a game where the numbers will usually be skewed to one side in every battle, you HAVE to make strategy/organization a MORE POWERFUL factor than the numbers are. Otherwise you have a very non-competitive and uninteresting game. % wins. Resistance is futile.

[ringring]

/agree AaronG

[Sonny]

With a slower TTK, you'd be giving more power to the smaller, organized groups. As it is now, I'd say that the strategy/skill cap on general gameplay is very low, and the power of numbers (with fast TTK = high # of random events) will simply dwarf the power of the skill factor. So, if you set out to make an organized push, it is more likely than not that your plan won't carry much weight and the random factor will nullify it.

Now, am I right about this? Well, maybe and maybe not, but I can tell you that I for sure don't see any organization having any effect on anything right now. If you're going to make a game where the numbers will usually be skewed to one side in every battle, you HAVE to make strategy/organization a MORE POWERFUL factor than the numbers are. Otherwise you have a very non-competitive and uninteresting game. % wins. Resistance is futile.

The flip side of increasing the TTK would be that the combat skill ceiling would increase. Combat will depend more on effective dodging and accuracy over a longer period of time during a 1 v 1 fight. People who are very good at FPSes will benefit from this, while people who aren't very good at FPSes, or newbies to the game, will likely end up getting less kills. This could lead to the game being more frustrating for people who are new to the game or can't shoot very well.

At the moment I'm quite happy with the TTK as it is, I think it's a good balance between being able to react to fire and also having a chance of taking down the 'elite' players if you get the jump on them. It's kind of a level playing field. The only time that the low TTK is frustrating for me is in situations where we are grossly outnumbered and probably shouldn't expect to survive long in open combat anyway.

Sonny

[Badjuju]

Definitely feels faster.

I really like the nano changes overall, especially the change to head shots. Being rewarded for good shooting is important for FPS games in my opinion. However the TTK does feel lower when I felt it was in a great place before.

Its funny that you bring this up as I was in game thinking to myself last night that I wished they raised the base health of infantry a bit. That way the changes made still accomplish what they were intended to for the most part, head shots would remain rewarding, and TTK returned to what it was.

The TTK just felt right before when everyone wore nano. It remained a lower TTK game but on the higher side of things. It really worked/s well with modern FPS shooter mechanics while making fire fights more competitive, rather than who got off their shots first or got lucky with a shot.

The difference isn't huge, and Im sure we will adjust just fine. I do prefer the larger health pools however. Not just for infantry vs. infantry combat, but because of the number of vehicles in this game. That extra health helps combat the incessant vehicle spam but still left flack a viable option even before the flack buff. Now more so than ever flack is very viable, a small base health buff wouldn't change that.

But who knows, maybe we just need more time to adjust.

Just my 2 cents.

Edit: I should note that it isn't 1v1 engagements that makes me unsure about the lower ttk, its due to the sheer number of people on the battle field. With all the cross fire and enemies everywhere, your health pool really feels lower than it is. May just need to some getting use too, but i feel that I die in allot more frustrating situations because of this, or in situations where i do not have time to react.

[AThreatToYou]

TTK without nanoweave is waaay too short. Even with, folks die really fast and now they die faster if you aim well. IMO what they should have done is remove the nanoweave certification but give its effects to every player.

[Canaris]

TTK is slighty to fast now imo

[Stardouser]

I think one thing that has to be mentioned in TTK is the controlled conditions versus actual gameplay. If it takes 5 shots to kill and the average weapon discharges 5 shots in .25 seconds then that's the theoretical TTK. However, that only happens if you put your weapon in someone's back at 0 distance, other things factor in.

We have infinite sprint, for example, which is good, but its speed is just a jog so if you're trying to run across your attacker's view to reduce hits, it's not so effective as it ought to be. And then you have VS (at least at close range) dealing a lot less with drop/recoil/spread, giving them a faster actual gameplay TTK, at least anecdotally.

Or in close range duels, TR can get the upper hand on NC due to rate of fire, for example which regardless of the theoretical TTK lets them output more bullets, which compensates for not caring about aim.

[HereticusXZ]

I think it's in a pretty comfortable position.

If it really needs to be slowed down just a tad that's fine but I'd rather we not have to circle-dance hose a target for 30-40 seconds with 100 or more bullets to bring down a player...

To a degree... I personally like a little bit of realism for immersion, a bullet is a bullet is a bullet and it should only take 3-5 to kill a person or something to that effect. We're only humans NOT space marines.


I'm not sure if it's beyond this discussion so my apologies if it derails... but I honestly think vehicles have the highest TTK with some weapons being able to just instant gib multiple squads of players. I think overall Infantry and Vehicles the TTK is in a good position but vehicles should become difficult to spawn or require pre-requisites....

MBT's require a Tech-Plant, Ligtnings should be added to that requirement.

Liberators and ESF should be restricted to a Amp Station connection

MAX and maybe some of the Infantry items like C4, AI Mines, or Tank Mines should be restricted to a Bio-Lab connection.


Put in some restrictions/requirements needed in a facility and you make bases mean something more and cut down on some of the stuff that instant gibs players with crazy high TTK. You'll also create some bigger battles as players fight over the facility they NEED not the facility they just want.

That's what I see might impact TTK... /shrug

[WarbirdTD]

The TTK has certainly become shorter since the patch. This whole nanoweave change feels like a direct buff to NC, since they have a large number of 167 and 200 dpb guns, which when headshots are scored, do a supreme amount of damage to their target. It really is quite noticeable when fighting a competent opponent like Recursion. I finally had to just get rid of my nanoweave heavy setup, because it wasn't giving me enough protection.

Oh, and I switched back to my TMG for good measure... Good thing the devs are going the direction of "Moar bullets going OVER THERE is a good trait for TR right guyz?!?!" with future TR guns. <Cringe>

[Phreec]

Definitely faster after the changes to NW and headshots. I'm more in favor of higher TTK but I'm more happy with how the reworked NW made NC weapons more competitive.

[Tatwi]

Remove head shots for every weapon other than sniper rifles and I think the TTK would be a lit better. HS are too easy to randomly achieve and thus are being unduly rewarded.

Body shot wise, the TTK seems the same as when I played at the beginning of the year.

[Boildown]

As bad as they build latency into the system, the game reduces down to who sees the other person first instead of who can aim and strafe better. Because the TTK is so fast, far too often you can't respond to incoming damage and take cover or even shoot back. "Who sees the other first" being the determining factor does not make for a good game.

[Boildown]

Remove head shots for every weapon other than sniper rifles and I think the TTK would be a lit better. HS are too easy to randomly achieve and thus are being unduly rewarded.

Actually this is a great idea. Its an easy change and will have the desired effect.

[Tatwi]

Actually this is a great idea. Its an easy change and will have the desired effect.
I was looking at my killboard for today and I got 8 head shot kills. I know for a fact that I was desperately spraying and praying with my pistol, yet I was rewarded with a head shot. I did aim for the head on the sniper rifle kill, but the guy was standing still so... hard to miss. So today there were only two times I landed a head shot kill where I purposely aimed for the head, once with the TMG50 and once with the SR7.

6 random Head Shot kills out of lord knows how many I people shot at may not be too bad, but it does seem a little excessive to me. I didn't deserve those. The enemy didn't didn't deserve to receive them either.

[BeyondNinja]

Remove head shots for every weapon other than sniper rifles and I think the TTK would be a lit better. HS are too easy to randomly achieve and thus are being unduly rewarded.

Body shot wise, the TTK seems the same as when I played at the beginning of the year.

I would suggest maybe no headshots while firing from the hip (random spread), because aiming for the head specifically, while in combat with an automatic weapon, is an important tactic.

Personally I loved the way the ttk felt immediately after the update, when most people hadn't yet re-equipped nanoweave.
I've never liked the way nanoweave messes with weapon balance (ie at NW5 by adding 2 shots to kill on most weapons, whatever their fire rate), and I've always hated feeling disadvanaged in infantry combat if I didn't have it equipped. Because I have a crappy framerate and bad ping I often get sick of flanking opponents yet having them turn around and take half my own health or even kill me, due to them having nanoweave.

In 1v1 combat the ttk is on the higher side compared to most other modern FPSs (excl Halo); it only really feels low when you have multiple hostiles shooting at you at once.

The average weapons in CoD and BF3/4 take 4 shots to kill and have 800rpm, whereas in planetside 2 the average weapon is 700rpm and takes 7 shots to kill.

[ChipMHazard]

Remove head shots for every weapon other than sniper rifles and I think the TTK would be a lit better. HS are too easy to randomly achieve and thus are being unduly rewarded.

Body shot wise, the TTK seems the same as when I played at the beginning of the year.

That might be the main reason why I've been feeling that the TTK has been lower since the patch.

_____

As to comparing PS2's TTK with other game's TTK, well I can't really claim to really care that much about the TTK in other games and how it compares to PS2. I'm not playing those games I'm playing PS2.
So far I do think the TTK is too low, too fast, in PS2. I might change my mind when I start playing more in the new year.

[ringring]

I suppose in decided what is your opinion on what is the 'right' ttk to have there are two questions.

Firstly, how satisfying is it? By that I mean both as the giver and receiver of the 'love'. In a large scale game like planetside the feel of the ttk may easily be far quicker as a receiver than as a giver, because there are more players shooting at you.

Also, how do you like not being able to react when shot at because you're dead pretty quickly?

The second thing to consider is the affect ttk has on the game. Is the game better for it?

An argument I hear often is that low ttk rewards tactics such as flanking and rewards it appropriately with an almost certain kill. Personally I don't fully accept this as I don't particularly see flanking as an uber expression of skill. People will do this whatever the ttk is set at.

I've argued in the past that a low ttk favours low skill and makes it easier for new people. (Head shots also contribute to this, see Tatwi's post above regarding accidental head shots).

There's also the opinion from Carbon Copied that a problem with this game is numbers count too much and it's hard for good players to dig in and defend because the ttk 'levels the playing field'. I see sense in the argument.

There is also the fact that ttk impacts on the differences in weapons. The old iconic PS weapons of the jackhammer, the lasher and the mcg are not iconic any longer. Weapons differences have been compressed.

For me there's a tendency to look at weapon ttk and compare it to what works best in COD or BF2/3 or whatever and it's the same fundamental error in map design and attempting to compare maps in ps2 with those from those games. PS2 is fundamentally a different game, it is a conquest game across multiple continents fought by empires and not a match game played with small numbers on small maps. Consequently design of elements that work well on one fps genre won't necessarily do the same in another.

[Chefkoch]

Planetside 1 had it just right along with the Stamina bar the game had more tactical infantry gameplay then Planetside 2 will ever have.

[Rivenshield]

Speaking strictly as an infantryman, I'm tired of dying without the opportunity to even react, and have been since launch. I've simply learnt to live with it.

A low TTK one-on-one translates to an instantaneous death when you have half a dozen (or ten, or twenty) people blazing away at you with handheld and vehicular weaponry in these sprawling open bases and gigahuge maps. It also effectively erases any differences between empire-specific weaponry.

PS1's TTK was too high. PS2's is too low. There's got to be a happy medium in there somewhere.

[Bags]

TTK is probably the worst thing about this failed abomination of a game.

[capiqu]

I miss the planetside duels. You would think that Auraxians with 28th century earth technology and even better advance vanu tech would have pretty good bullet resistant armor.

[KesTro]

I like TTK how it is, it could probobly do with a slight increase but it isn't too big of an issue. Plenty of folk have learned to deal with this 'abomination of a game' as it stands and are having a blast doing so. If you can't seem to do that then why are you still here?

[capiqu]

I would like to see different TTK's try outs on the test server and have the players give SOE input.

[War Barney]

TTK is definitely to fast right now, it makes it pretty pointless picking certains classes or guns if you want to kill people quicker or have more defence as you get about 0.1s difference. I started playing the HA as I like the big guns and wanted to play the guy who charges in taking the shots but they seem to have the same defence and TTK as a medic... so why exactly am I bother with a HA? Sure they have rockets but theres plenty of armour dealing with that and you can switch back quickly anyway.

[Verrijden]

I started playing the HA as I like the big guns and wanted to play the guy who charges in taking the shots but they seem to have the same defence and TTK as a medic... so why exactly am I bother with a HA?

ummmmm extra shield perhaps?

[War Barney]

ummmmm extra shield perhaps?

You obviously don't play a heavy, the TTK is so fast right now that shield makes almost no difference at all (and thats assuming you don't die so fast you don't have time to turn it on)

[Tatwi]

You obviously don't play a heavy, the TTK is so fast right now that shield makes almost no difference at all (and thats assuming you don't die so fast you don't have time to turn it on)

Headshots or not, after playing several hours I have noticed this to be true.

The TTK is a tad too fast 1 vs. 1 and way too fast in multi person battles. I'd make some adjustments like so,

1. Remove head shots entirely, unless the shot was fired while looking down a scope that is 3.4x or higher. This will eliminate no-skill, all luck QCQ head shots, thus increasing TTK, while also leaving the reward in for people who want to aim with an actual aiming device.

2. Tack the health that NW5 used to grant on to everyone by default. Adjust OHK sniper rifle head shots to still grant the OHK.

3. Cap the amount of people effected by blast radius effects. So a mine or a rez grenade would only effect up to X amount of people, no matter how many people were standing in the radius. This is a performance and game play consideration, because PS2 is a game, not real life. Doing this reduces the force multiplier of explosions and mass rez, thereby putting more emphasis on decisions that individual players make. PS2 is a huge multiplayer game, not Fish-in-Barrel Online.

Honestly, that Rez Grenade is completely over powered in its current state. Sure, it might be neat to use and see, but it's a way over the top force multiplier, especially for its low cost. SOE should steer clear of abilities and units that allow a single player to interact with more than 2 to 4 other players, tops. Again, it's a multi player game and each player's input should be required or at the very least, have the potential to be useful. It's kind of a hard concept to articulate, so sorry if I did a lousy job of it.

Merry Christmas.

[War Barney]

Rez nades definitely need fixing, you can rez almost an entire platoon in cramped places like biolabs, was in a battle there other day where it was just a huge mash of platoons fighting over point B to get the gen down.. but we got nowhere because the enemy was spamming rez nades so was wiped about 10 times in a row and stood right back up again.

And explosives TTK is REALLY out of whack right now... I thought they had rebalanced the damage so I got flak 4 (best I could afford) and went out on my HA... long story short I got 1 shot by a tank using the medium shells while at full health/shield with my nanomesh shield on.... so basically it seems vehicle explosives 1 shot everything. Why exactly does flak armour exist?


As for nano and flak (well assuming they ever fix flak so it works) it should be in an entirely different slot as its always the better option even with the changes, I would love to use some different options but I always end up thinking *well I can either survive longer or have a minor situational thing...*

[Verrijden]

edit

[ringring]

Sometimes I think ttk is treated in the same way the how hot your curry or buffalo wings are. The hotter you can stand it the more of a man you are.

I recall being in a restaurant with a group and there will be someone there and he's eating a curry and he gone red in the face and there's sweat breaking out on their forehead and taking great slurps of beer and I'll ask 'how is your curry' and 'just fine they'll say' with an I'm tougher than you look on their face. :)

Personally I like my curry just hot enough but no hotter.

[Sledgecrushr]

Im fine with the ttk right now. Frankly I havent really noticed too much of a difference.

[capiqu]

I feel with spawn room camping, trying to get out of the spawn room while 3-5 campers are shooting at you simultaneously and killing you as soon as your big toe clears the force field is to much.

[Methonius]

Headshots or not, after playing several hours I have noticed this to be true.

The TTK is a tad too fast 1 vs. 1 and way too fast in multi person battles. I'd make some adjustments like so,

1. Remove head shots entirely, unless the shot was fired while looking down a scope that is 3.4x or higher. This will eliminate no-skill, all luck QCQ head shots, thus increasing TTK, while also leaving the reward in for people who want to aim with an actual aiming device.

2. Tack the health that NW5 used to grant on to everyone by default. Adjust OHK sniper rifle head shots to still grant the OHK.

3. Cap the amount of people effected by blast radius effects. So a mine or a rez grenade would only effect up to X amount of people, no matter how many people were standing in the radius. This is a performance and game play consideration, because PS2 is a game, not real life. Doing this reduces the force multiplier of explosions and mass rez, thereby putting more emphasis on decisions that individual players make. PS2 is a huge multiplayer game, not Fish-in-Barrel Online.

Honestly, that Rez Grenade is completely over powered in its current state. Sure, it might be neat to use and see, but it's a way over the top force multiplier, especially for its low cost. SOE should steer clear of abilities and units that allow a single player to interact with more than 2 to 4 other players, tops. Again, it's a multi player game and each player's input should be required or at the very least, have the potential to be useful. It's kind of a hard concept to articulate, so sorry if I did a lousy job of it.

Merry Christmas.

I agree with all of this. Since the PU2 it feels like the TTK is way too short now. I mow ppl down like butter now. And if I don't see them first it's bye bye to me. I feel like when I kill ppl now I used zero skill to do it. It's all about who pulls the trigger first now. I feel just adding the extra health to everyone for nanoweave 5 previously would keep the feel that I liked before. It feels like COD now, and I do not like that at all. But, who knows maybe that's what they're going for. I hope not though.

[Canaris]

Well if it was up to me I'd increase HP of all infantry units by say 200, also increase ammo pools by about 2 clips depending on the type.

I'd also increase the HP of all MBTs

Throw it up on test server for a month and see what people think.

[raumfahrer]

TTK is too random.

Hitboxes seemingly jumping around, hits not registering, retarded lag, random CoF bs.

Seriously, when I put a rocket in a MAX's face I don't want to see 90% health on the death screen. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

[GeoGnome]

Note: I did not read all the responses, I'm just responding to the main Poll and post, so if my points have been brought up, my bad.

I'm having trouble answering the poll. I played tonight, and did REALLY well, because by default I always aim for headshots. Aiming for headshots, my TTK is down per target. Maxes are also easier to kill (At least it feels that way), and have slower revive time which is a plus.

I did shoot for body shots some tonight though and didn't notice any difference.

So I say TTK is faster in some circumstances, but everything is fine (I'm actually Really happy with the balance changes). I really think they ought to leave TTK and health alone at this point and just focus on things that will better help people with the type of combat that PS2 owes itself to.

Someone (Might be in this thread, might be elsewhere) said that low TTK means you can't have tactics, this is something I disagree with. It means you have to Plan for things and see how they work out. You can't change on the fly, unless everyone is just really well in sync. I'm going to say they should just focus on improving information collection and items that can be used to help negate the enemy advantage (crowd clearing weapons, weapons that are used to impose status effects like flashbangs, riot shields, etc.).

[Drakkonan]

The TTK has always been too fast. Situational awareness of surroundings should be far more important than the so-called 'strategy' employed in fast-TTK systems.

One of the reasons I loved the original was because every time I spawned, even just as a re-exo, it felt significant. I knew I wouldn't die in half a second...or even a few seconds if I played smart.

[War Barney]

Another problem with the TTK being so fast is it utterly screws up the balance between classes, a HA should be a walking tank of sorts, able to kill a medic or engi 1v1 easily BUT in practise thats not how it works, the TTK is so fast that a medic can easily take out any class as can engis, hell even a pistol is capable of taking you out if the enemy sees you first.

[BlaxicanX]

Heavy Assault isn't supposed to be able to take a medic easily in 1v1. The nerf to LMG hipfire was enacted specifically to nerf Heavy assault's 1v1 capabilities.

Heavy Assault is supposed to be a mid-long ranged fighter, and to that end, they're quite powerful.

[Stormhall]

I remember reading an old TTK thread when I was in closed beta. Ah I see it's never given up.

In that old thread I said that the game should be a lot slower movement wise and should feel a bit more like ArmA with a low TTK but a very tactical playstyle instead of being able to run and jump at lightning speed killing people 2 or 3 shots.

People would have formed proper formations and the game would have been so much better for it.

You wouldn't be arguing about TTK if you didn;t have so much un-realistic agility like in CoD or BF.

[War Barney]

Heavy Assault isn't supposed to be able to take a medic easily in 1v1. The nerf to LMG hipfire was enacted specifically to nerf Heavy assault's 1v1 capabilities.

Heavy Assault is supposed to be a mid-long ranged fighter, and to that end, they're quite powerful.

they aint that good, the guns are so inaccurate and the damage falls off quickly at longer ranges, HA already sucked at everything really this nerf just made them even worse at close ranges. At medium range engi/medic/LA work great, they also work great up close, and a inf is great at long range, the HA has a weird middle ground where they are sort of average at long and medium but nowhere near as good at them as other classes (hell at long range I'd say they are about as good as engi/medic/LA).

HA is slowly becoming a worthless class, nerf to air lock on means their anti-air capabilities are almost gone, anti tank is almost gone as it takes 6 or so rockets to kill anything and they die in 1 hit, LA and medic get C4 anyway (which is the main thing I use to kill tanks anyway), I'm really struggling to work out why HAs even exist.

[Babyfark McGeez]

The low/fast "TTK" is one of the four reasons that make me stay away from PS2. Reminded me too much of UT "Instagib" servers the last time i logged on.

The overall reasons for me staying away being:

- Map Design (Everything from too many outposts, the bad lattice implementation to the horrible bases themselves)

- "Planetside on steroids" unfortunately simply isn't planetside (TTK, perma-sprinting, dumbed down gameplay with no doors and a constant emphasis on offense, instagratification xp system, everything being flashy and "in your face")

- No content (From systems that go beyond the shooting itself, support and logistics, all the way to immersive elements like sanctuaries, lore, emotion/voice macros)

- The too obvious business dictated way the whole project is handled, from rushed release to bland and overused mechanics with an overwhelming cash shop that constantly balances on the fine line of being a fair price and being a rip off

And aslong as i don't see atleast one or two points improved i don't feel any urge at all to return.

Well, sorry for going offtopic lol. Yeah, ttk is too short/fast. :D

[Kirotan]

I like the new changes. I like the new new TTK and headshots. I'm sure I'm in the minority in this thread, but I have no problem with it. Before the patch I used to aim for the body, but after reading the patch and getting owned while hearing the "tink" sound from being popped in the noggin, I decided to start aiming for the head.

And I couldn't be happier. I think one of the biggest reasons why I like it is because I play Light Assault 75% of the time; everything about being LA is about positioning. My philosophy is "If someone is shooting at me, I'm doing it wrong." So for me, regardless of the class I play, I win the fight by making the right moves before the shooting starts.

I can't really comment on how HA feels before and after the patch because I've played HA maybe 2-3 hours total (spawn as HA to shoot rockets at tanks, go back to another class), but I really love HA as a class after the patch when I decided to give it a shot.

Here's my NC HA guy that I made on Christmas Eve. 192 Gauss SAW kills, 51 are headshots. I was able to turn a corner and outgun 2-3 people on occasion because of making a concerted effort to aim for the head. https://players.planetside2.com/#!/5428153774066603137/

(Note: Not posting these to brag or anything like that, I believe myself to be a very average player. I'm just showing from my perspective that a brand new, no NW5, no Resist Shield 5 HA can hold their own just fine. Afterward I've started playing HA on my VS(The Orion OMG!) and TR and anyone who says HA is getting screwed...well I haven't played HA before the patch but if you call this "getting screwed" I should have started playing HA a long time ago).

Now, I also noticed it is easier to take out HA if you shoot them in the head, so it's clearly a double edged sword, but I find the edge that's facing the other guy is much sharper. :)

[War Barney]

Its all well and good for some people to say they aim for the head but as a NC I don't really have that option as the recoil is so bad that aiming for the head will often lead to you just missing, I can see how as a VS you could easily get head shots non stop but for other people it just aint an option

[Kirotan]

Its all well and good for some people to say they aim for the head but as a NC I don't really have that option as the recoil is so bad that aiming for the head will often lead to you just missing, I can see how as a VS you could easily get head shots non stop but for other people it just aint an option

I just posted having a 26% headshot rate with a Gauss SAW. I have never used it before I made the character on Dec. 24th. In fact I loved how much power it has over other empire LMGs.

So it is an option.

[War Barney]

And I'm sure thats a completely realistic amount for long term use of it... its nice that you tried to fiddle the numbers to make it look like the NCs inaccurate as hell weapons are ok but they just aren't.

I know its slightly derailing.. but its a fact VS guns are easy mode and NC are hard mode as VS guns are based on accuracy meaning very easy head shots, Nc guns are based on damage and hard as hell to hit with so aiming for the head is a bad idea as you'll often end up missing instead. Sure those few people you manage to hit the head of constantly will die quickly but most of your fights will end up with you shooting air thanks to the recoil.

Perhaps if the TTK was higher it would balance out better but for now it just doesn't.

[CanVer]

Well if it was up to me I'd increase HP of all infantry units by say 200, also increase ammo pools by about 2 clips depending on the type.

I'd also increase the HP of all MBTs

Throw it up on test server for a month and see what people think.

Nice suggestion, increasing HP by 200 will make sure NC and VS guns become utterly useless while only TR can kill someone without the need to reload. :D

[Vashyo]

I certainly hope it's right, don't want them wasting any more time eternally balancing the gameplay and continents instead of adding more gameplay and continents.

[bjorntju1]

I haven't played awhile until yesterday, but it did feel like I could kill people faster than before. Could also have to do with the performance patch, game finally runs smoothly :p

[ChipMHazard]

Nice suggestion, increasing HP by 200 will make sure NC and VS guns become utterly useless while only TR can kill someone without the need to reload. :D

How so? It would mean about 1-2 shots more to kill someone. That would certainly still be well within the range of possibility for any firearm.

[BlaxicanX]

If anything, it would actually benefit NC weapons more because their niche (high power) would actually mean something. With the current TTK, the difference between killing someone in .6 seconds versus .8 seconds isn't enough to justify the shorter clip sizes and higher recoil that NC weapons have.

But with higher TTK, higher damage per shot matters more over time. .6 and .8 seconds might not be very noticeable, but .9 seconds to-kill versus, say, 1.5 seconds to kill is very noticeable.

[War Barney]

If anything, it would actually benefit NC weapons more because their niche (high power) would actually mean something. With the current TTK, the difference between killing someone in .6 seconds versus .8 seconds isn't enough to justify the shorter clip sizes and higher recoil that NC weapons have.

But with higher TTK, higher damage per shot matters more over time. .6 and .8 seconds might not be very noticeable, but .9 seconds to-kill versus, say, 1.5 seconds to kill is very noticeable.

Aye could finally fix the balance between weapons, the incredibly fast TTK is a huge advantage for the VS guns which are based around always hitting while our NC guns are based on hardly ever hitting.

I still don't get how some idiot thought it was a good idea to have a TTK of under a second and make 1 factions guns based around mega ultra accuracy and another based around never hitting

[Rolfski]

When you play BF4, you're really going to appreciate the TTK in this game.

[CraazyCanuck]

While I would agree there is a noticeable difference with the nano changes, overall I like where the TTK is.

Slightly off topic. Instead of a general health increase like some have suggested if a ttk were elected to be increased, I would rather a movement modifier and stamina system be put in place.

Types of gear/weapons chosen would have a direct impact on movement and length of sprinting, but the advantage of the heavier movement restrictive gear would have to balance in direct correllation to the benefits of the improved mobility. With a stamina system in place, jumping would have significant impact on gameplay.

But I cringe at thinking if this would just cause more netcode issues/abuse that we have already seen from other movement upgrades they have introduced. I think you would have a more definitive feel between the classes based on weapons available and the gear options.

[capiqu]

Hey!! This poll adds up to 115.19% ????
Who voted 7 times????

[torokf]

The TTK has become faster as of PU02 but it's also fine as it is.
It was frustrating at start but I think I got the hang of it now, It's cool.

:)

Imho

[ChipMHazard]

Hey!! This poll adds up to 115.19% ????
Who voted 7 times????

Well, people are supposed to vote multiple times (Or rather two times). Apparently a lot of people forgot that I wanted people to vote for either of the two top options and either of the last three options:p

[CraazyCanuck]

Trac 5s galore tonight across a variety of TR BR...coincidence?

[PastalavistaBB]

The TTK after PU2 is definitely too short (fast). It's basically COD. I think this change was made incoming console crowd in mind. There are so many sources that you take damage, death is instant. Even a single SMG Infiltrator can take down a Heavy before he can get his shield up. This is a bit too much IMHO.

[Kirotan]

Let me see if I got this right(and if I'm wrong feel free to correct me): The TTK didn't change unless there's a headshot thrown in (because Nanoweave no longer protects against headshots), OR you were playing HA (because nanoweave no longer stacks with the shield?). I haven't noticed much of a difference because I didn't use nanoweave often, but there are 2 differences I have noticed:

1. Heavy Assault isn't the tank that it used to be. I like the way it is now; they're tanky enough to win a head on, 1v1 fight against non-HA's, but not so tanky that they can be careless. Now, any class can shoot an HA in the back and have a fair chance of winning.

If you are struggling as an HA after the patch, it may be because you relied too much on NW and Resist shield to pull you through on fights. If you get the shield up, you should still beat most non-HA's. If you get ambushed...well you'll probably die like anyone else would(except your chances of survival are a bit better).

2. The really good players are beating the crap out of the rest of us. All the high BR twitch FPS'ers in the game are now deadlier and harder to kill because they're better than us and are rewarded with more damage being applied to the head area. The margin of error when facing a very skilled opponent was small; now it's even smaller.

[Plaqueis]

Well, i spent like 7 years in a game that used to be simulator (devs decided to try going for more CoD style game, which only resulted in mass unsubbing by veterans like myself, and by what i hear the game is practically dead nowadays): Battleground Europe; only one server, map about the size of 4 continents here, used to have 1000+ players online pretty much any given time, ultrarealistic gameplay and gear; for example you couldn't fly the planes effectively without separate flighstick, throttle and rudderpedals, everything was OHK if you knew the target softspot, infantry either died or was badly wounded with 1 shot regardless the weapon just like IRL.

TTK in this game is way better now, and i wouldnt mind if it was shorter.

[Belhade]

Well, i spent like 7 years in a game that used to be simulator (devs decided to try going for more CoD style game, which only resulted in mass unsubbing by veterans like myself, and by what i hear the game is practically dead nowadays): Battleground Europe; only one server, map about the size of 4 continents here, used to have 1000+ players online pretty much any given time, ultrarealistic gameplay and gear; for example you couldn't fly the planes effectively without separate flighstick, throttle and rudderpedals, everything was OHK if you knew the target softspot, infantry either died or was badly wounded with 1 shot regardless the weapon just like IRL.

TTK in this game is way better now, and i wouldnt mind if it was shorter.

So...we should just not have any armor at all, then?

[CrankyTRex]

It's always felt too short to me, but definitely more so lately. It feels like there is no time at all to react to being shot now. "Oh I'm bei-dead."

Infantry just doesn't really move fast enough to be getting killed in 2 hits and not feel ripped off, especially since the lack of defensability and the enormous numbers really make it difficult to position yourself so that the threat will come from the front.

[Plaqueis]

doublepost.

[Plaqueis]

So...we should just not have any armor at all, then?

I can live with what ever it is, just thought i'd share a point of view on it :)

I know this isn't a sim, and it shouldn't be either. How could you even simulate something that's pure fantasy? I just ment that I wouldn't mind if the TTK was even way shorter, as i'm used to that. I only play 2 games atm, this and DayZ SA (former ArmA3 zombie mod, with 'realistic' damagemodel; if someone shoots you, you're either dead or unconcious right away).

[Stormhall]

Yeah but like I said if you had a realistic damage model like ArmA but an unrealistic movement system like it has now then it'll be super chaotic and people will die like flies. The reason why ArmA works so well is because of the movement system in being not so agile nor as fast and not being able to jump and fly everywhere.

[Plaqueis]

Yeah but like I said if you had a realistic damage model like ArmA but an unrealistic movement system like it has now then it'll be super chaotic and people will die like flies. The reason why ArmA works so well is because of the movement system in being not so agile nor as fast and not being able to jump and fly everywhere.

Actually, that's what i hate about the DayZ.. the movement is like trying to remote control a 1960's robot; you give an order and wait for ages for something to happen. Atleast in BE, the controls were somewhat smooth. Not normal rightaway-CoD-BF smooth, but still fast enough, pretty much like we have on Planetside.

But anyways, i just ment to express an opinion, thats all. I'm not expecting 'realistic' damagemodel ever, as it would probably destroy the game since its not a sim.

[Stormhall]

Eh I know a lot of people don't like the controls and movement in the ArmA series but I personally never found 'em annoyingly clunky or slow and I actually like the control and movement system more than many other FPS games.

[Stardouser]

Aye could finally fix the balance between weapons, the incredibly fast TTK is a huge advantage for the VS guns which are based around always hitting while our NC guns are based on hardly ever hitting.

I still don't get how some idiot thought it was a good idea to have a TTK of under a second and make 1 factions guns based around mega ultra accuracy and another based around never hitting

This is pretty much the reason why VS is unbalanced across the board on their infantry weapons. Sure, in a laboratory setting where everything hits, NC damage might look even, but in actual combat, sacrificing potential damage for guaranteed damage is where you want to be. Throw in some A-D stepping for good measure.

[JesNC]

TTK now is the same as it was at launch, it's just that in the meantime people got used to NW5/Resist Shield demigod hp levels.

[Emperor Newt]

Really starting to hate the changes. Now it feels even more of a numbers game mixed in with some twitch-"skill" shooting here and there.

But well, at least they stick to "size always matters" and "battlefield on steroids". I guess that's something. The last two of the design philosophies that people tell them are crap since beta they haven't changed yet.

If that's how they try to make the game better/more interesting to new players... Good luck with that, SOE. You'll need it.

[BlaxicanX]

What's ironic is that...

the higher the TK, the more numbers matter. Not less.

[Emperor Newt]

In certain situations I would tend to agree. But I rarely experience those anymore in PS2. In the end it doesn't really matter as long as it's a numbers game. No matter if high or low ttk, it's boring anyway.

[SirPsycho]

My main issue is TTK is too variable. Sometimes I die insanely fast and other times I kill 4 or 5 people in a row even though it seemed like I should have been dead from damage received. It almost seems to run in cycles.