Do we really need spawnbeacons?

[NewSith]

(Blatant outfit promotion included)

Pre-Season EU Outfit 418 [418] vs MercenaryS [MERC] - YouTube

Here's a ComClash pre-season play between two outfits, one of which is rather famous among visitors here.

I strongly advise watching the video, but in case you wrongly consider it not worth your time I ask below:

If spawn beacons are generally used by more or less organized groups, rather than zerg and now we have squad vehicle spawning, wouldn't it be logical to remove beacons, which as of now bear a slight flavor of "uncounterable" as opposed to battlegals and such?

My thinking on the matter was caused by final interview in the vid, as I considered how boring the match would've been if 418 could just drop kamikaze engies with AV mines or C4 on MCY sundies non-stop.

P.S. Flash+EMP grenade combo counters smoke shielding + IRNV. But shhhh!

[Falcon_br]

I do

[NewSith]

I do

I doubt you even realize how thoughtful your answer is... :)

[bpostal]

What's worse, dropping a squad via beacon or dropping them via gal? In the end it amounts to about the same thing, but the mobility and precision afforded by gal drops is way beyond anything you can do with drop pods.
I don't see a major problem with them (beacons that is), and of course they add value to SLs and their members.

[synkrotron]

I'm sure that beacons have their place, but I, for one, rarely deploy on them because I'm never sure where I'm going to end up. I'd sooner hitch a lift in a Sundy/Gal or even spawn a base or two back and get my own transport.

[ringring]

I don't like them, a bit cheesy.

[NewSith]

You know, the three replies before mine are all saying pretty much the same thing:

Spawn Beacons are becoming redundant, and I agree with that. They are going to be used even more seldomly now that vehicles can spawn squadmates. And while still being an option for organized play, they are not half as useful as a single flash acting as a forward spawnpoint, yet they contribute to creating tactical chaos wherever they are placed, and that's a bad thing.

[almalino]

Beacons must not have beams into the sky. In BF2142 spawnbeacons were just small devices planted on the ground and beeping.

This way Beaconbs will be harder to locate and destroy and might be a good option for spawning again.

[HereticusXZ]

Well until a better counter to the Galaxy is added into the game like say example: A base defense turret that fires TV guided missiles that do heavy damage to large vehicles.

PS2 is rightfully going down a path of rock-paper-scissors for everything and they have assigned the ESF to be the primary hard-counter to -all- Air?

Until a proper hard-counter is created for specifically the Galaxy, and not just a generic blanketed counter, yeah, the Squad Beacon will lose it's useful effect. But it won't ever die out or dissapear entirely.

Fans enjoy the drop-pod option to much to scrap the Squad Beacon.

[NewSith]

...Until a proper hard-counter is created for specifically the Galaxy, and not just a generic blanketed counter...

http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?p=872122

Yummy...

[mrmrmrj]

I think spawn beacons are a critical element for those that want to play in small groups pursuing tactical goals. Beacons are plenty balanced by the fact that they are easily visible to the enemy and easy to destroy.

[NewSith]

I think spawn beacons are a critical element for those that want to play in small groups pursuing tactical goals. Beacons are plenty balanced by the fact that they are easily visible to the enemy and easy to destroy.

And again, I have to mention Flashes that make a more reliable spawnpoints for small teams, mostly thanks to stealth upgrades and autorepair...

Beacon itself only adds pain in the back for AMS drivers, suffering from AV mines and C-4 charges, falling from the skies with enemy players attached to them.

[AuntLou]

Ah yes a bunch of spawn beacon haters who are just too lazy or afraid to go take them out. Also stop using the excuse that the beacon is used as a AMS destroyer. Since the nerf it's nearly impossible to use that strat and you can maybe travel all of 5 meters from the beacon itself.

My suggestion would be to reduce the timers of the beacon since the vehicle/gal spawns are so short it makes the beacon pointless.

[Boildown]

Drop podding Sunderers is practically impossible since the nerf to how far you can move a drop pod while dropping. As just said above, you can barely move out of your own way in drop pods any more.

I am heavily pro-spawn-beacon. And I strongly believe that the above mentioned nerf needs to be undone. I am very pro-drop podding onto enemy zergs. Right now Planetside 2 is just a massive zergfest, and every change Sony has made in the past six months has done nothing but promote zerg vs. zerg gameplay.

If you're ever outnumbered by as little as 6 to 4, you're screwed, no matter how good you are. That is not how battles throughout history have actually worked, where operational and tactical decisions routinely allowed the smaller but better force to defeat a larger stagnant force.

Spawn beacons and drop pods were an effective tool for defeating enemy zergs, particular vehicle (tank and sundy) zergs by a smaller force. This is a GOOD thing for the game. It is no fun to be running two squads and knowing that there is absolutely nothing you can do to prevent being stomped every base down a lattice line, over and over and over again. Falling back and setting up defense is a pointless endeavor with the way the game is now if you're outnumbered, and your troops are not going to stand for their K/Ds being trashed with no significant losses done to the enemy.

Spawn beacons before the drop pod nerf allowed an outnumbered enemy to at the very least cost the tank zerg some precious resource points and allowed the outnumbered force to get out of their own spawn rooms. You simply put your personal waypoint on the place you want to drop and aim your pod for it. Some people think the pod itself did damage, but that's only true if you landed on aircraft. The drop pod does zero or next-to-zero damage to ground vehicles, the damage was done by explosives the drop podding player placed after landing. Tank mines, C4, usually.

This is completely fair, the attacking zerg force (there are no defensive zergs) should have a some things working against them, and a defending force should have some defender's advantages. Smart and experienced players should have techniques they've learned over months of playing that allows them to do more with less. Planetside 2 should have more than a superficial cert-driven learning curve. The drop pod nerf was just one more way the Planetside 2 developers seem determined to vainly try to attract new players at the expensive of all their established players.

[HereticusXZ]

I have to mention Flashes that make a more reliable spawnpoints for small teams



You can't spawn on Flashes? It's only Galaxy and Sunderer.

The Squad Beacon isn't effective at all for anti-sunderer because of it's extremely small "Cone-of-Landing".

If the Beacon is useful for anything it's just to quickly insert troops into the zone, that's it. Unless the beacon itself is placed ontop of a priority target then it won't be a deciding factor in a fight.

I rather enjoy finding clever places to hide the Squad Beacon - Not just ontop of towers but to balance on the top of the antenna with it.

Ultimately though I agree the Squad Beacon is falling out of fashion only used as a last ditch effort when all other spawns are absent. The Galaxy is so much more effective and accurate as a drop-spawn.

I'd like to see the stat comparison between Galaxy Spawns and Squad Beacons deployed ever sense the vehicle-spawning update came out, or even Galaxy Spawns versus Squad Beacon Spawns.

[HereticusXZ]

I strongly believe that the above mentioned nerf needs to be undone


I completely disagree. Previous drop-control and accuracy with the drop pods was more then obnoxious and couldn't be countered beyond running through the killzone to destroy the beacon. The squad-beacon nerf helps to actually define battle-lines for a enjoyable fight. Squad Beacons serve only as a spawn and that's it.

The Galaxy drops is your alternative to drop behind the battle-line and disrupt the zerg. It's a giant target so you can actually defend against it. My issue is you need some weapon option outside of the main-cannon on a MBT or a Dalton/TankBuster Lib to destroy the Galaxy.

Skyguard, Burster, and Lock-Ons only serve as a deterrent. Air is the only hard-counter to air seems a little to blanketed IMO for the rock-paper-scissors theme PS2 is starting to go down.



EDIT: Not promoting another AA fiasco to repeat itself... I'm asking for a hard-counter to specifically the Galaxy over the general blanketed "Air is the only hard-counter to Air" that we have. IMO When we have a hard-coutner to the Galaxy, then will the Squad Beacon be signifigantly relevant again.

[Blynd]

I think they should go back to just having the ams and squad beacon no other forms of spawning outside of bases.

Squad deploy ia and the new vehicle spawning is just a joke there are too many ways to overwhelm a base in seconds if you have a good platoon leader you can have 4 squads spawned and on the ground in 25 seconds with only one gal. If that isn't op then I don't know what is but it has changed the way the game plays because of one stupid mechanic.

[KesTro]

Air isn't the only counter to air though. When a fight reaches critical mass and enough people pull 'any' kind of AA, Air can't do a damn thing in that fight. Air is only really effective when people aren't actively seeking to deter/counter them. It's when you wait until the air is already a problem that air seems really Overpowered. One burster max is often enough to deter 4 esf's or more from a single zone.

[HereticusXZ]

Air isn't the only counter to air though.



Air is the only hard-counter to Air.

The wonderful thing about flying vehicles is they have both the greatest speed and maneuverability, they can travel across the continent on a whim versus ground units that take time to travel around natural barriers.

Pilots fly in, get tagged by AA, use terrain to disengage and break LOS, come back later when the defenders aren't so focused on AA. Ground-Based AA can't chase the aircraft, not without abandoning a defense and putting forth a great effort to chase down moby dick.

Ground-based AA is only a deterrent, not a hard-counter.

Aircraft can chase other Aircraft and kill them, ergo Air is the only hard-counter to Air.





Back to the squad-beacon.... again I don't see it ever disappearing, space-marine fantasy drop-pod is to much fun, but that's what it feels like to me anyways. It's just the last ditch option to spawn in your squad when there's no Sunderer or Galaxy available.

Sunderer has a thousand things that can instantly or quickly destroy it, chief of which is tank mines....

The Galaxy can be threatened by AA but it has a ton of options to simply shrug off AA. Depending only on ESF and Libs as the only sure-fire way to deal with a Galaxy.... It just seems kinda meh to me and I don't think the Galaxy needs a nerf, at all.

I think it would be cooler to just apply rock-paper-scissors and add a more specific option to hard-counter Galaxy-Spawn that doesn't involve the blanketed Aircraft counters Aircraft. Be it in the form of a weapon or some Engineer utility tool like a EMP dart that works only on AMS vehicles, briefly disabling the squad-spawn vehicle as a option....


If Galaxy-Spawn can get a effective counter, then Squad Beacon I imagine would hold more value again.

[BlaxicanX]

I inherently disagree with giving any infantry a hard-counter to air, on the basis that anything you can give to infantry inevitably results in it being spammed. As a participant in many a "striker squad", "burster nest" and warpgate troll-party, I can attest to the fact that if one guy has access to something that can shut down a vehicle, you'll be seeing twenty guys hanging out all using that weapon at the exact same time.

At which point the air game gets screwed, pilots complain and another round of buffs and nerfs are handed out.

Only thing that should hardcounter air are vehicles, imo.

[War Barney]

I inherently disagree with giving any infantry a hard-counter to air, on the basis that anything you can give to infantry inevitably results in it being spammed. As a participant in many a "striker squad", "burster nest" and warpgate troll-party, I can attest to the fact that if one guy has access to something that can shut down a vehicle, you'll be seeing twenty guys hanging out all using that weapon at the exact same time.

At which point the air game gets screwed, pilots complain and another round of buffs and nerfs are handed out.

Only thing that should hardcounter air are vehicles, imo.

At which point though you end up with air determining who wins like it does now, infantry has no say vehicles have no say only air determines the winner as it can destroy all infantry and vehicles with ease and almost no risk. Hell a skyguard perhaps the best ground based AA there is wont kill a ESF faster than it'll get killed by a ESF and thats a vehicle!. As infantry I've learnt to just ignore air unless it comes so close to the ground I can dumbfire at them, something I'm seeing happen more and more as air realises theres pretty much nothing on the ground that can threaten them.

Pilots might like the idea of being gods, answerable to nobody except other air but its ruins the balance, whoever controls the air will just bombard the ground to hell until the other side calls in enough air to stop them and then they win.

The problem is air is way to durable right now, it takes about 2 clips of a burster to take out a ESF and a ton of bursters focusing on a lib to just scare it off! they rarely die unless they pilot is a idiot and hangs around very low to the ground for ages. The great power and maneuverability of air is meant to be balanced by them being defensively weak but in planetside air is if anything the strongest armoured things around, a lib takes about as many hits as a tank to kill if not more and a gal is the toughest thing in the whole game to kill. But they also get the strongest weapons, fasted speeds and greatest maneuverability, the balance is completely out of whack.

[BlaxicanX]

Air doesn't determine who wins now.

It might in the competitive circuit, but in generic PS2, air doesn't do a whole lot besides pick off infantry and get blown up, especially against an organized outfit that can pull AA in numbers.

After the Amerish revamp, air will be even less useful.

[War Barney]

It does determine who wins with organised platoons, if you have 2 or 3 libs spamming explosives at the ground theres almost no way to do anything until you get counter air. Ground AA is no use as a libs so tough it will blow up all the ground AA before it has to retreat for a minute for a full repair meaning only infantry focusing on it will make it have to leave every 10mins for repairs but ofc it'll get a LOT of kills in that time.

[Baneblade]

I actually think Spawn Beacons should have a completely different use entirely: Placing them creates a spawn jamming zone against enemy spawns. Only base/outpost spawns would be immune.

[NewSith]

I actually think Spawn Beacons should have a completely different use entirely: Placing them creates a spawn jamming zone against enemy spawns. Only base/outpost spawns would be immune.

The idea that PS2 lacks any kind of denial mechanics is older than AA vs Air debate, sadly. I think it comes from the point of view that it's boring to deploy something that may not even be used. Just compare PS2 "minefields" to... No not PS1's. BF's minefields.

[HereticusXZ]

I inherently disagree with giving any infantry a hard-counter to air



I'm not talking giving infantry some new weapon to be bought and spammed.... I'm suggesting a base-defense turret aka Skylance that's specifically a hard counter to Galaxies.

Give it a slow enough turret rotation that it can track a gal but not a fast moving ESF and sorta improvised against a Lib, I think it would be fine.

Solve the problem of specifically countering a Gal then the Squad Beacon gets value again.