Daybreak Games Hit With Layoffs, Matt Higby resigns

[Hamma]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/news-daybreak-games-hit-with-layoffs-3102.htm

[Hamma]

A sad day.

Last year when this happened I knew there were a bunch of people left. This year I don't even know who is left?

[Canaris]

A terrible thing to hear, very sorry for all those effected :(

There goes any hope I had for DB getting themselves back on track.

[ringring]

Very sad for everyone there, even for those that dodged the bullet. It can't be fun seeing people you like and respect having to leave.

As regards to the question 'what does this mean for ps2' I don't think we can say. We know that Smedley said several days ago that he was looking forward to porting games to teh XBOX ... so..... after the ps4 port is done they'll presumably be getting on with that.

[Hamma]

Pretty cool post from David over on Reddit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/2vm5nl/dont_hate_on_columbus_novadaybreak/

[ringring]

Pretty cool post from David over on Reddit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/2vm5nl/dont_hate_on_columbus_novadaybreak/
yes very cool. Whenever I read his postings I thought he seemed like a good guy.

[OpolE]

FFS! Whats gonna go on with PS1 then!

[Calista]

Sad news but I am mostly surprised how soon it happened! Best wishes to all those impacted.

[Jaybonaut]

Addressing the situation.

SOE

[Hamma]

Welps now Higby has departed. :(

Hey guys -
Working on Planetside 2 has been the absolute highlight of my career, but after 4 years working on the game, it's time for a change. Today was my last day on the Planetside 2 team and at Daybreak games. This is a move I've been considering for a while now, and the reorganization provided the right opportunity for me to exit.

Planetside 2 is in great hands, with terrific people who honestly care about the game and the players. I can't stress this enough, the folks working on every aspect of the game, developers, marketing, community are talented, hard working people who care more than you can imagine - I'm fully confident they're going to do an amazing job on the next leg of the journey.

Finally, I wanted to thank all of you in the Planetside 2 community with whom I've shared the last few years, whether in stream chat, tweets, pms or comments you guys have motivated and inspired me all along. You are an amazing community that I'm looking forward to remaining a member of for a long time.

See you on Auraxis!

http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/2vqcge/thank_you_to_the_planetside_2_community/

[Canaris]

I know this is a very sad and difficult time for DB and all the staff effected, PS2 has lost some good people and I don't doubt the development of the game will slow down even further but like all things there is an opportunity for Planetside 2 to have a fresh start.
I've said this before but they should release the Planetside 2 map maker on the player studio.
Honestly who's more passionate for the game than the players. Could you imagine if we were making the continents and redesigning the bases to be what they should be.
Just look at all the amazing helmets that have been created or the concept armor people have crafted for the three factions.

Instead of having 4 maps you could have the proper world of Auraxis again with a real continental lattice.
It's a pretty huge resource that remains untapped.

[ringring]

Wow, Higby!

I am surprised by the timing but I'm not surprised that he has decided to leave. As someone who has been involved in many projects in the same there comes a time when you feel you have done all you need to and that it's time to look for another challenge.

I don't know if you'll read this Matt but thanks very much for for positive and enthusiastic attitude and for your immense patience and even though I no longer play and I'm a devout follower of the religion that is PS1 I often look at a PS2 fan-made video of some action and I go 'wow'.

Best wishes.

[Brusilov]

Its a damn shame :/

[Calista]

I have a feeling Rum and Cola may be re-incarnated in Raleigh real soon :lol:

[Gimpylung]

Seems like such a short time ago that Higby and TRay were zipping around PS1 in a skyguard getting the playerbase hyped for PS2's beta.

:(

[ringring]

Seems like such a short time ago that Higby and TRay were zipping around PS1 in a skyguard getting the playerbase hyped for PS2's beta.

:(
I can recall TRay in the gunner seat in the Bangbus and saying what a piece of crap the gun was... yea, that's why no one ever tried it more than once. :)

[Calista]

I just seems they are going into full maintenance mode on the PC side so they reduced dev headcount to free up funds for ps4 and eventual xbox launch port/launch efforts. So if all that goes well they start developing from that side and porting to the PC.

[Babyfark McGeez]

Soe...or daydreaming gaming or whatever they're called now...what a fucking clownshow...i mean what the hell, they even went the early access way like bobs basement development with their zombie thing. Just eye-rollingly wow.

Seriously though, i have to say i pretty much liked all the peeps i talked to or read from over there, but it has to be one of the worst (managed) studios i ever saw. Kinda feel sad for the nice pople working there...well if anyone is left.

Who is left managing PS2 now anyways? Scruffy the janitor?

[ringring]

Anyone remember before beta when Higby used to post a picture of a big messy burger and accidentally on purpose have his PC switched on in the background showing the game?

I remember I was salivating, and not for the burger.

[Mordelicius]

We'll see what happens next.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hKSYgOGtos

[Figment]

So many lay-offs. :( That's always sad to see...


Best of luck to all those who will be looking for new challenges.


Seems like such a short time ago that Higby and TRay were zipping around PS1 in a skyguard getting the playerbase hyped for PS2's beta.

:(

Wasn't it an Aurora AND a Marauder while they were being chased by pretty much all the aircav in the region and not realising at first they should have brought a Skyguard? =p

[p0intman]

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000203123/polls_smiley_indifferent_2616_619554_answer_2_xlar ge.jpeg

I've said all I have to say on this elsewhere, or in private to specific people.

I'll leave it with this:

"My God! It tastes so good! I hesitate to swallow and I certainly don't wanna spit it out. Oh, what the Hell?"

*pause*

"I told you so."

-Raymond "Red" Reddington

[RykerStruvian]

p0intman, I was thinking of you when I read about this. You were right. You were absolutely right. You talked about this all the way back during the beta on the official forums. I remember.

Planetside 2 being betatested for the PS4 is probably the lowest problem on the ladder in terms of SOEs screwups. I hope Smed is happy with his MLG pushing and public #chestbanging over twitter like some fool. Now we're supposed to believe they can maintain EQ/EQ2/Landmark/EQNext/PS1/PS2/DC: U without Sony?

Everyone's either been kicked off the ship or quit, except Smed's got his golden parachute lined up considering he picked the buyer who wouldn't kick him out of his comfy chair. Thanks, $med. I'll bet anyone $100 that he's going to abandon ship too within the next year or two, as soon as he gets his payout so he can retire.

Also, I like how Higby said his heartfelt goodbyes on Reddit. You know, instead of the official forums. Like he did with everything else.

One bit of good news though. We get to read in on all the juicy stuff via reviews by those just laid off:

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Sony-Online-Entertainment-Reviews-E21279.htm

[JetFireIII]

PlanetSide 2 was and still kinda is my favorite game. However, I'm really disappointed with how neglected the game is, being tossed around like the squad leader position in most squads.

Higby was literally the most well known member of the PS2 team. He was so well known that he was a curse word in the game! Haha

I can bet 99% of people who have heard of a PlanetSide constructive team member will immediately say "Higby" when you ask which one. He'll always be missed and I'm sure the game won't make too much progress in the near future, if any at all (or if it'll even be alive) with all of these people leaving or being kicked off. Daybreak should pull their head out of their arse and start focusing on the games, not making the people who have worked so hard feel like garbage. >_>

[Gimpylung]

So many lay-offs. :( That's always sad to see...


Best of luck to all those who will be looking for new challenges.




Wasn't it an Aurora AND a Marauder while they were being chased by pretty much all the aircav in the region and not realising at first they should have brought a Skyguard? =p

I'm sure they did a few, I remember a Skyguard at one point, here they are in a Prowler...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H632MNPyM9s

[Canaris]

I'm sure they did a few, I remember a Skyguard at one point, here they are in a Prowler...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H632MNPyM9s

You're 100% correct Gimpy, they were racing around in a skyguard at some stage.

[Hamma]

Matt Higby leaving SOE only makes p0intman right in p0intman's world. :lol:

If you had predicted the exact day and set of events down to a T then I'd be impressed. But that did not happen.. also the game isn't dead for everyone - people are still playing it. Is it as successful as it could be? Definitely not.

The game was dead before it even came out for PS1 vet's who couldn't see past the original game.

[Figment]

You're 100% correct Gimpy, they were racing around in a skyguard at some stage.

Yes, eventually. :p

Said "at first". :p

[Calista]

I think CN is changing the platform priorities to basically accelerate console focus but not giving up on PC. Kinda freezing the PC side except for bug fixes, tuning etc and pushing the active development to the console side. For the longest time it was PC first and now that is changing. If that's the case I don't blame them at all. PS2 on PC growth has been stagnant if not declining for quite some time and the PS4 version was promised to be a "launch" title and all this time later it's still not ready. There is just simply more money to be made from the consoles at this time and CN "adjusted" priorities to pursue that revenue. I don't think the game is "dead" by a long shot.

[Figment]

The game was dead before it even came out for PS1 vet's who couldn't see past the original game.

Hamma I'm prone to take a huge issue with this statement if it is meant as a rather wide generalisation rather than applicable to specific individual PS1 veterans.


The fast majority of PS1 veterans were accepting of the principle of change, they simply didn't agree with the changes made and failed to see the logic behind the changes made and elements that were chosen to be changed.

That's something completely different.



Personally I blame the death of PS2 on being far too much like an infinite threeway PS1 cave fight. It should have been an indication to the devs that virtually nobody in PS1 liked cave fights, while "field combat", "campaigning", "defensive farms", "resecure challenges", "(gen/drain) holds" and "massive sieges" were what most players kept playing PS1 for.

The PS2 devs didn't first identify what MMO gameplay was most coveted and what was least liked. If they did, they didn't try to define what made these types of gameplay possible and how other design changes or decisions (like introducing jetpacks) would be interfering with it.

PS2 simply lacked the structure and design choices that make most of these possible, instead being more about zerg to point and spawncamping gameplay than anything else.


PS1 vets gave PS2 more than a chance to impress them. Instead they quickly recognised PS2 copied games designed around short deathmatch and ticket system matches. PS2 devs failed to recognise how an open, continuous world differed from those games in terms of logistics and gameplay scenarios and made decisions that could not be reconciled with it. You cannot blame PS1 vets for being able to make that distinction and not being willing to accept inferior gameplay that could be avoided.





Hamma, just remember that "teleporter firing squads" were designed by developers out of pure inexperience, ignorance and bad insight.


No PS1 veteran nor new player is going to accept such design. And yes, the PS1 player will point out how PS1 did not have that. That isn't tunnelvision. That is experience.

[Hamma]

I didn't mean all vets, btw.

But it only takes a vocal few to turn off devs from feedback about the game.

Ironically they went to Reddit which was probably even worse. :lol:

[p0intman]

Matt Higby leaving SOE only makes p0intman right in p0intman's world. :lol:

If you had predicted the exact day and set of events down to a T then I'd be impressed. But that did not happen.. also the game isn't dead for everyone - people are still playing it. Is it as successful as it could be? Definitely not.

The game was dead before it even came out for PS1 vet's who couldn't see past the original game.

I said, during pre-alpha and beta:

"This design wont work and will hurt the game. It isn't sustainable."

... look at exactly where we are now.

I think that qualifies as, 'I told you so' territory. If it were sustainable, PS/SOE/DB wouldn't be in the position its currently in, would it?

P.S.: the absolutely beautiful thing about the truth is that its true completely regardless of weather or not you like it, believe it or want to admit it. You, personally, along with a few others discounted what I and others said, and continue to do so, for whatever fanboyish reasons. I, on the other hand, stick to facts and experience. Its really just feels vs reals. If Battlefield of duty-side were entertaining, the game wouldn't be in the state its in, with growing numbers of people seeing how bland it is.

[Assist]

Sad to see Higby go. Even if he did crush my OP Magrider. #neverforget.

Can't say I'm too surprised the game is falling apart(the dev team at least). The game really hasn't progressed much since release. They had been taking one step forward and two steps back for too long.

[p0intman]

I didn't mean all vets, btw.

But it only takes a vocal few to turn off devs from feedback about the game.

Ironically they went to Reddit which was probably even worse. :lol:

they went to reddit because its easier to crowdsource feedback there, and you get a bigger mix of opinions that inherently includes outsiders as well as current players. its actually just a simply better platform. instead of laughing and brushing others off, perhaps you should take a careful look at what went wrong, and why it went wrong, and what role in that you had in bringing it about.

you can blame others all you like, but that doesn't do jack shit.

But hey, who am I? I'm just a dude who said 'this shit wont work' while fanboys laughed the advice off.

[Figment]

I didn't mean all vets, btw.

Nah, I know. :) It's just that I personally been tarred with that brush a lot and it's been used to dismiss so many good ideas and concepts. Seen an outfitmate being ridiculed for bringing up an idea that was in PS1.

He joined the franchise in PS2 in 2012 during Beta. Think he mainly played RTS games, CoD and BF before that next to some RPGs. He simply was interested in the concept and wanted to know the differences in gameplay, so he went into PS1, was impressed by some of the creativity and complex combinations of systems that hadn't been considered in other games (obviously he was NOT impressed by the graphics).

One of the things he really liked was the unique character skills and the teamwork that was obligatory in vehicles. He wasn't too impressed with the PS1 wall design (no roofs), but pointed out how they were at least effective at the lack of jetpacks and thus defendable due to the low amount of chokepoints and good vision. But he mostly liked the bunker base a lot (one of his main pet peeves was, well is, spawncamping prevention), though (like the rest of us) he could see how it'd be a meatgrinder if the amount of players was raised. Which we agreed was mostly a sense of scaling the tunnels appropriately and adding just a few more, larger entrances to the entire complex.

But it only takes a vocal few to turn off devs from feedback about the game.

Ironically they went to Reddit which was probably even worse. :lol:

Well, we aren't the only ones with an opinion. I think they just went with the biggest crowd. :/ The feedback from all the (bickering) sources got a bit overkill on some of the devs I think. Had a couple of PM contacts though that seemed to be productive.

[Hamma]

pointman I find it laughable you think I had any role at all in what happened with PlanetSide 2. :lol: I made no decisions on game development and zero decisions on promotion and marketing of the game. I'm willing to put the past behind us if you stop attacking me, I really don't feel like there is any need for that. I watched you make a few constructive posts in the other thread.. no need to come out and attack my thoughts. My blame is on SOE, not on any one community or forum.

You are right in your own mind about the reasons. It doesn't make it the truth.

I believe the game wasn't as successful as it could have been (note: it's not failed nor did it) is due to marketing (again like we saw in PlanetSide 1 last time) and failed focus of the development team and leadership. Not because the AMS doesn't work in a specific way or some random game design decision. The reasons are much more deep seeded and we see the company do these things with just about EVERY game they release. They continue to do the wrong things, invest in the wrong things, and get involved in the wrong deals. Add a bit of bad game design on top of that and it's doomed.

I can tell you one thing, I've already made a decision not to roll with support of another PS game (if there is one) or any other fan site for SOE/DBG. So I'd say that pulls me out of the "fanboy" category. I will keep this site running and occasionally reporting the news when it's big but my work on helping to promote the game are pretty much over.

So I think we are all on the same page - but we are on the same page for different reasons. It's all a matter of perspective, I was never about the nuts and bolts of game design I was always more focused on community and helping to build it and promote it.

I did this the second time around for the love of the community and the memories PlanetSide 1 created for me. The friends I have made and the relationships that will outlast any game.

[Calista]

I can tell you one thing, I've already made a decision not to roll with support of another PS game (if there is one) or any other fan site for SOE/DBG. So I'd say that pulls me out of the "fanboy" category. I will keep this site running and occasionally reporting the news when it's big but my work on helping to promote the game are pretty much over.


Wow Hamma that is saying A LOT. Maybe they will do something profound and you/we will change our minds (doubt it but for all our sake I hope so).

[Hamma]

I doubt it - I never say never but well.. after what I've seen the past couple years I just don't get it.

Also I personally doubt there will be another PlanetSide unless the IP is sold then maybe I might think about it.

[Hamma]

And let's keep thing constructive here. I'm in the same boat as the rest of you are. We don't have to agree and we don't have to fling personal attacks for no reason.

[p0intman]

pointman I find it laughable you think I had any role at all in what happened with PlanetSide 2. :lol: I made no decisions on game development and zero decisions on promotion and marketing of the game. I'm willing to put the past behind us if you stop attacking me, I really don't feel like there is any need for that. I watched you make a few constructive posts in the other thread.. no need to come out and attack my thoughts. My blame is on SOE, not on any one community or forum.

You are right in your own mind about the reasons. It doesn't make it the truth.

I believe the game wasn't as successful as it could have been (note: it's not failed nor did it) is due to marketing (again like we saw in PlanetSide 1 last time) and failed focus of the development team and leadership. Not because the AMS doesn't work in a specific way or some random game design decision. The reasons are much more deep seeded and we see the company do these things with just about EVERY game they release. They continue to do the wrong things, invest in the wrong things, and get involved in the wrong deals. Add a bit of bad game design on top of that and it's doomed.

I can tell you one thing, I've already made a decision not to roll with support of another PS game (if there is one) or any other fan site for SOE/DBG. So I'd say that pulls me out of the "fanboy" category. I will keep this site running and occasionally reporting the news when it's big but my work on helping to promote the game are pretty much over.

So I think we are all on the same page - but we are on the same page for different reasons. It's all a matter of perspective, I was never about the nuts and bolts of game design I was always more focused on community and helping to build it and promote it.

I did this the second time around for the love of the community and the memories PlanetSide 1 created for me. The friends I have made and the relationships that will outlast any game.

Context is, why your website is dead. Not the game. The game's problems i mostly blame on Smedley personally.

[Hamma]

We will have to agree to disagree as you continue posting on a "dead" website. ;)

I'll be the first to admit though I thought that PS2 would be different. They had a solid team and lots of attention.

I was wrong.

[Hamma]

This thread isn't about PSU but I put my heart and soul into this place. An initiative happened at SOE to move to reddit. Look at H1Z1 today they don't even have official forums really. Their participation in this site ended due to a policy decision on their side. Pretty much all of their games now have little Dev participation outside social media networks. I could have offered free candy and/or beer and it wouldn't have changed the outcome of this site.

But I digress this convo has nothing to do with this site. If we want to talk about that I can create another thread... But I really don't have much else to say on it. I've accepted where we are now and I feel like I put in my best effort to make this place awesome.

I'm at peace with it :)

[Figment]

The answer of the debate you two are having is probably somewhere in the middle in this case. IMO. Think you're both right to a degree so not necessarily wrong. ;) You both just weigh things differently due to focus, I think.

[Calista]

This thread isn't about PSU but I put my heart and soul into this place. An initiative happened at SOE to move to reddit. Look at H1Z1 today they don't even have official forums really. Their participation in this site ended due to a policy decision on their side. Pretty much all of their games now have little Dev participation outside social media networks. I could have offered free candy and/or beer and it wouldn't have changed the outcome of this site.

But I digress this convo has nothing to do with this site. If we want to talk about that I can create another thread... But I really don't have much else to say on it. I've accepted where we are now and I feel like I put in my best effort to make this place awesome.

I'm at peace with it :)

I know you have Hamma. I can remember back in the lean years this site was still kicking. I have a theory they went with reddit so the SOE employees could get away with perusing other sub-reddits while at work. See their bosses would walk behind them and see reddit and just figure it was job related :lol: I don't like reddit. Something about the layout just doesn't work for me but maybe I am in a minority with that.

Also, didn't SOE provide you with additional hardware or funding (I don't recall exactly) to bolster your site for the anticipated increase in traffic?

Funny thing is they always have to explain to the disgruntled players why they don't use official forums like most other games do and it pisses many off. If I were CN I would enforce a policy change in this area and consider reddit a fan site just like PSU. It's an easy opportunity to smooth things over with the playerbase.

[Hamma]

The answer of the debate you two are having is probably somewhere in the middle in this case. IMO. Think you're both right to a degree so not necessarily wrong. ;) You both just weigh things differently due to focus, I think.

Agreed! Let's move on. ;)

SOE provided a little financial help in the PlanetSide 1 days. :)

[Muldoon]

This thread isn't about PSU but I put my heart and soul into this place. An initiative happened at SOE to move to reddit.

Never saw any directives come down that told us to use reddit over anything else. I can really only speak for me, but I personally like the layout of reddit over reading a typical forum thread. Liked comments are upvoted, annoying and off topic stuff is downvoted. Easier to get a lot of info faster. Stuff flows up and down, and rarely stays up for more than a day, so all the comments feel fresh. And you can't derail the entire thread with a comment, only the person you're talking to.

I think I have one of the oldest reddit accounts of the PS2 team, so clearly I'm biased towards it.

[Muldoon]

I've said this before but they should release the Planetside 2 map maker on the player studio.
Honestly who's more passionate for the game than the players. Could you imagine if we were making the continents and redesigning the bases to be what they should be.
Just look at all the amazing helmets that have been created or the concept armor people have crafted for the three factions.

Instead of having 4 maps you could have the proper world of Auraxis again with a real continental lattice.
It's a pretty huge resource that remains untapped.

Half of a map maker's time is spent implementing design data. It's really not so simple as modifying terrain and placing objects. You have to hook up NPCs to this and that table. Facilities have to be linked up with their spawns, shields, control consoles, vehicle pads, and lattice lines. You need to enter data in 15+ tables just to create one base. To make something like this possible for player studio would be a huge undertaking, and likely won't happen for this reason.

[Hamma]

Never saw any directives come down that told us to use reddit over anything else.

This is good to hear :)

[Babyfark McGeez]

Yeah, right, now to the important part: With whom can we negotiate for the PS1 Source Code? :p

[Zeta]

Why does it always seem to turn into anti-PS1, or PS2 or PS1 vs PS2 around here? PS1 should have NOTHING to do with it. PS2 was sparse from day 1, and no one was wrong for calling them out on it.

PS2 doesn't have to be exactly like PS1, but if anyone made any comparisons between the two then how was that not to be expected or naive to think otherwise, considering it was the games predecessor?

PS2 needed to be much more than just a giant TDM, and it's at a much better state now than it was at release, but it stayed broken for WAY too long after FAR too short a Beta before they even started to address many of the problems. By then so many people had already left.

Just 3 months after releasing the game they were already announcing the first server merges. That's concerning from the start, and its lack of depth/variety had nothing to do with a lack of advertising. People knew about the game, but player retention has always been an issue as the game has always been hemorrhaging new players.

[ringring]

Why does it always seem to turn into anti-PS1, or PS2 or PS1 vs PS2 around here? PS1 should have NOTHING to do with it. PS2 was sparse from day 1, and no one was wrong for calling them out on it.

PS2 doesn't have to be exactly like PS1, but if anyone made any comparisons between the two then how was that not to be expected or naive to think otherwise, considering it was the games predecessor?

PS2 needed to be much more than just a giant TDM, and it's at a much better state now than it was at release, but it stayed broken for WAY too long after FAR too short a Beta before they even started to address many of the problems. By then so many people had already left.

Just 3 months after releasing the game they were already announcing the first server merges. That's concerning from the start, and its lack of depth/variety had nothing to do with a lack of advertising. People knew about the game, but player retention has always been an issue as the game has always been hemorrhaging new players.

tbh, I never expected ps2 to be the same as ps1, I only expected there would be a few top line attributes that would stay the same across both games.

For example, there had to be the three empires, it had to be a persistent world and it had to be large scale.

The other must-have in my view was a strategic meta game. Now that meta game didn't have to be the same as ps1 but there had to be something there done differently, what that would be I don't know. But we have had two attempts from the devs, Events and WDS of which to my mind Events worked best - but I haven't seen anything that worked better than the inter-continental lattice (ICL) of ps1.

Now I've seen Malorn say that the ICL won't work in ps2 and I accept that, but it's a shame there's no other idea being put forward. (This is the point when someone says Figgy made a suggestion x months ago).

Also, there's features in ps2 that I accepted until after playing for some time that I turned against. Resources is one example of that. I think the purpose was to restrict access to vehicles and to give a reason to take up a subscription, but the problem was it didn't work.

Overall however, I can't criticise the devs for trying something different. We know PS1 was only a very minor success and we know Battlefield is a major success so it's only natural to at least try to give the greater mass of people what they appear to want.

[Canaris]

Half of a map maker's time is spent implementing design data. It's really not so simple as modifying terrain and placing objects. You have to hook up NPCs to this and that table. Facilities have to be linked up with their spawns, shields, control consoles, vehicle pads, and lattice lines. You need to enter data in 15+ tables just to create one base. To make something like this possible for player studio would be a huge undertaking, and likely won't happen for this reason.

Hey Muldoon, thanks for taking the time to reply to my comment, I know there is a lot of coding that would be needed to be done on your side, my idea had more to do with how the terrain/building maker program you had in the awesome WIP videos that you devs made, you already have the assets created and in the videos I didn't see them coding as they built new designs and remade old bases, I'm sure that was done later but it wasn't needed for the overall design.
Player made content could be just that taking one of the three facility assets and altering and overhauling them into a different form such as infantry fighting zone like I outlined in my other thread, then you take over code as needed.

Still might be to much of a headache for DB to get around but you know what they say about wishes ;)

[p0intman]

We will have to agree to disagree as you continue posting on a "dead" website. ;)

I'll be the first to admit though I thought that PS2 would be different. They had a solid team and lots of attention.

I was wrong.
the only reason i even bother to store my login info for this site is because occasionally i like to repost shit i said years ago to reddit threads.

oh, and shitposting at you. that too.

[Hamma]

Ahh good point, I forgot you hold some sort of baseless grudge against me.

[Ghoest9]

Just go away pointman.
You are forum cancer and just make the forum less relevant for everyone.

Im sure you are sincere and think you are accomplishing something but the truth is you have publicly disliked almost everything about the game since the beginning and have almost continuously complained.
You should have realized early on that this was not a game that could suit you and then left so as to not to to obscure the voice of players who really liked the game and just wanted to talk about realistic improvements.

You are often a selfish poster who ultimately made this forum worse for everyone.
You werent alone there was 3 or 4 of you.

[bpostal]

While this seems to be off topic, the following quote (http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/2whtms/what_do_we_honestly_expect_koltyr_to_accomplish/cor66p9) from Billbacca is what worries me most about these layoffs. I'm not entirely sure what his role at DBG is but here he's speaking about the new tutorial continent Koltyr:


...

Also this will have been the fastest continent we have produced so far and if it works well we can re-use the technique for making new zones. The initial launch zones and Hossin we made were crazy time sync's in terms of man years. That many a man year zone is just not an option anymore. So let's see how this one goes.

-Billbacca

Sounds like no more Searhus.

[ringring]

While this seems to be off topic, the following quote (http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/2whtms/what_do_we_honestly_expect_koltyr_to_accomplish/cor66p9) from Billbacca is what worries me most about these layoffs. I'm not entirely sure what his role at DBG is but here he's speaking about the new tutorial continent Koltyr:



Sounds like no more Searhus.

I'd be surprised if there are any new continents after Koltyr.

However, I don't think this quote on it's own implies that. One of the problems with PS2 is the amount of work each continent has entailed and consequently the few that there are.

If they can work out better and quicker ways to create new ones then that's all to the good. And that is what I think he's saying there.

But, I'd point out that when Nexus was being shown the dev (I can't recall which one) commented that they can do those Battle Islands quickly because there're small. He quoted 5-6 weeks for the terrain and then the outposts are on top of that, literally and figuratively I suppose.

I bet the existing continents have been major costs on the project.

[bpostal]

I don't mind seeing smaller continents but I don't buy the "smaller continents = more continents, faster" argument. Valve stated that they were going to episodic releases because it would enable them to put out more content in a shorter timespan and look at how that's ended up.

[Baneblade]

Technically, PS2 is a success. The problems with it were always about the divergence from PS1 philosophies. It was no accident that all the core improvements to PS2 were directly taken from PS1.

I mean, you really have to be full of yourself to take the sequel down the exact same road as the original, making the exact same mistakes, and eventually realizing that reinventing the wheel wasn't necessary... and still act like you can do the exact same thing for each and every issue.

Watching PS2 development postbeta, was like watching a toddler trying to find a new better way of walking.

[Figment]

@HansKappers thanks for all the great concepts and inspiration, i hope you keep helping the @Planetside2 team out with your ideas!

:p Drat, now I might just have to make that list p0intman was on about.

[Calista]

:p Drat, now I might just have to make that list p0intman was on about.

Well hop to it lad!

[Mordelicius]

They have to fix Redeployside and restore the old Resource Mechanics (in the interim if they are making a new one).

The Flat Resource system is just destroying the game. How bad is it?

Just put it this way. Take the Flat Resource system and stick it in to World War II. What do you get?

World Peace.

All Japan wanted is to be a legitimate world power. In able to achieve that, they need natural resources. Hence, they've become imperialistic.

With a flat resource system. There would be no reason to invade or expand.

Same with Germany. All of Hitler's megalomaniac dream of expansion, domination and genocide eastward for that 'Living Space' would be for nothing, if they get flat resource in the end.

That's right. Take the most vicious war in the history of humankind and combine it the Planetside 2 resource mechanic. And you get peace :doh:.

So, what is a peace stimulator like a Flat Resource system doing in Planetside 2? Instead, they need to add mechanics that stoke fighting.

Example: Supply Crate Airdrop Reward for Alerts. ( http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=55841 ). Don't lock the continent after an alert and continue the fight with the airdrop minigames.

[ringring]

I've just listened to the talk Kid Riot did with Matt Higby yesterday (or early this morning for me).

It was interesting although there were no shocks.

He mentioned the engine still being developed in tandem with the game.

Hinted about the game maybe going live a little early.

Said that FTP had good points but also downsides.

Said that it was much harder to develop content after going live than it was before and he didn't realise this until it after - I believe I recall warning him about that, I think on these very forums, cos that has happened to me in the past.

And related to that there were lots of things where the designs have been spec'd but which have had to wait.

Thinks that PS4 release will be major for the game in terms of revenue which should feed through to game development

And he said he was thinking about his next project for about a year and when SOE became Daybreak that seemed the best time to go although ideally he would have stayed a month or two longer (seeing the ps4 launch was one of the reasons for staying a bit longer).

He also spoke well of the current development team (which I suppose that on the one hand you'd expect that but on the other he didn't have to say it but he did)

[Calista]

He also said initially they were considering not to put maxes in the game but he told them oh hell yes they are going to be in as they were in the original and considered them iconic to the franchise.

I found it interesting his take on f2p. Said since the game was free they viewed it OK to release in an unfinished state. If it were p2p they would definitely have to wait until it was more polished.

No doubt the ps4 version will be the game's fork in the road. It will be do or die. If you'll recall Smed said it would make more money than the PC version since they already have purchase information via PSN. Players can just simply click to purchase without any hassle.

Kinda off-topic but I have been reading about an upswell of angst over f2p. Parents are getting tired of seeing these micro-transactions on their CC bill for "free" games. It seems there is growing sentiment of some sort of regulation of the industry in regard to f2p but we will see how that goes in the near future.

[Figment]

Kinda off-topic but I have been reading about an upswell of angst over f2p. Parents are getting tired of seeing these micro-transactions on their CC bill for "free" games. It seems there is growing sentiment of some sort of regulation of the industry in regard to f2p but we will see how that goes in the near future.

Why do parents give their kids access to their bank account in the first place?

Would you? No. Why? You know what microtransactions are. These parents that have concerns never played games with those (probably mostly one time purchase games IF ANY AT ALL). I mean, players like us, who have grown up with online gaming, will have a different view from these parents that are indirectly exposed to it.

The answer is not necessarily to change the format through the company, but parents teaching their kids the value of money. And maths (that small purchases add up) and budgeting.

[Calista]

The answer is not necessarily to change the format through the company, but parents teaching their kids the value of money. And maths (that small purchases add up) and budgeting.

Well that would be ideal but it doesn't always work that way. I guess I could go on a while about family dynamics in modern culture but I think I will pass. :lol:

I read http://www.gamesindustry.biz a good bit to get the viewpoint of game developers on a variety of topics. A lot of the articles are originated from other websites and aggregated there but the thing is only verified members of the game development community can post comments. It's interesting and enlightening to see the viewpoints of those folks. A couple of them expressed a feeling of guilt of mining children for money and realize that f2p is headed for regulation. Exactly how is anybody's guess.

Also Higby mentioned on occasion he had discussions with the business folks where they wanted more focus on revenue generating features because they missed the revenue goal for a previous month. So they couldn't really address some content additions like they wanted to when they had targeted them. That's just sad.

[ringring]

re:ftp and kids.

One good thing about subscription is that the adult can take out the sub and play and their children can also play free on a different character when the adult isn't.

That used to happen in my ps1 outfit, I'd often get a message from an outfitmate saying X is his son and can I make sure he behaves himself.

[Figment]

Seen the family sub thing too, but that can be done in F2P too.


Thing is, milking people is a choice of the people being milked. I've spend over E.500,- on PS1 subscriptions (in fact it ran a while while I wasn't aware I was paying as I wasn't playing... ¬__¬').

I don't come close to that on PS2, War Thunder and World of Tanks, combined.

If you as a developer feel guilt for taking too much from a single player, you could go as far to start sending warnings to accounts. Show a total sum of money spend on the game so far, put up maximum expenditures per month or year or in the most radical situation, you could put a maximum expenditure in at which point (specific) new content becomes standard. Say purchase $80 in cosmetics, all new cosmetics are free of charge for you. Same for subscriptions.


The thing is, only single purchase can stop you from milking someone by their choice. And tbh, I really would prefer single purchases.

Look at Adobe though. If you want to see milking done excessive. Look at Adobe CS.S.

[luckyaltone]

To make something like this possible for player studio would be a huge undertaking, and likely won't happen for this reason.

Agree, even if it could be done within the existing structure i suspect the market for it would be quite small and limited to the hardcore few who want to manage offline matches.

Perhaps a design competition for future map/base changes..?

[Muldoon]

Agree, even if it could be done within the existing structure i suspect the market for it would be quite small and limited to the hardcore few who want to manage offline matches.

Perhaps a design competition for future map/base changes..?

The undertaking would be to make our tools usable outside the company, or to make it not be so data dependent. So unless the competition is getting hired to come work for us and make a bunch of bases, I don't see this happening.

[Calista]

The undertaking would be to make our tools usable outside the company, or to make it not be so data dependent. So unless the competition is getting hired to come work for us and make a bunch of bases, I don't see this happening.

Kinda like when players want to host their own private PS2 servers :rolleyes:

[ringring]

Kinda like when players want to host their own private PS2 servers :rolleyes:

I can understand that tbh, Daybreak own the IP and they have to look after it. I wish they'd make PS1 open source but I'd guess that would be very unlikely.

[Calista]

I can understand that tbh, Daybreak own the IP and they have to look after it. I wish they'd make PS1 open source but I'd guess that would be very unlikely.

Oh no, I agree hence the rolling of the eyes. I just can't believe people think they have anything at home that would be even close to running an MMO with advanced tech like PS2.

[Babyfark McGeez]

Oh no, I agree hence the rolling of the eyes. I just can't believe people think they have anything at home that would be even close to running an MMO with advanced tech like PS2.

Certainly not PS2, but PS1 is another matter.

RELEASE DA CODE SOE/DAYSOMETHING! Or heck, sell it to us for a few bucks, it's not like you'll ever make more than that from it. :J

[Stardouser]

Oh no, I agree hence the rolling of the eyes. I just can't believe people think they have anything at home that would be even close to running an MMO with advanced tech like PS2.

Most likely you are referring to people talking as if they could host a 2000 player server at home. Obviously that is not going to happen. But don't people who have their own Battlefield servers actually rent space from some third party provider anyway?

Now, a 2000 player server would cost huge money, but it wouldn't be so ridiculous to have 64-128 player servers. This game has long been polluted by deathmatch focus gameplay even as it tries to claim a territorial focus in name. Why not embrace that, take it to the next level, and break up the game into servers like that (READ the last paragraph before you panic)? They could, for example, carve out mini-maps for 64-128, such as Crossroads/Crown/TI Alloys (and maybe one or two of the other close bases). They could make pure deathmatch modes, conquest-ish modes, and so on.

But why, you ask? Well if people are going to just play it as a deathmatch, why not accommodate them with the smaller round-based server structure, and charge rental fees for it? Just like in BF your rank and unlocks follow you to any server, so could the same thing happen for PS2 in this system.

What are some reasons that individual players would choose to do their deathmatching on a 64-128 server?
1. Ability to find closer servers for ping purposes

2. Server owner/renter can provide a more immediate cheat response (though on the flip side, just like BF has, you'd have some power trip owners who kick/ban for the most trivial or even unfair things)

3. Such servers would be round-based instead of persistent - many players want this (I don't, but 95% of the fights I see are played like a deathmatch anyway despite how the game is designed, so I'm practically getting it anyway except there aren't formal rounds built into the game).

4. Easier to play with the same small group of players

Obviously there would be drawbacks to work out but basically, this game has long been a deathmatch in all but name. Why not take advantage of it, especially if server rental fees are going to pay for it? Might even attract new players.

And more importantly...the main servers would still exist, but with people able to more formally go to 64-128 player servers for their deathmatching, hopefully those who do go on the main servers will be playing to win. Right now, except in highly organized outfit scenarios, most people play to cert farm. That kind of play does not take advantage of a big territorial control map.

So on weeknights, a player might log in, play 3-4 20 minute rounds on a good ping server, but on weekends logs into the main servers to participate in organized ops.

[Calista]

Here is a basic diagram of an MMO.

http://mirrors.fom.nexeontech.com/v5.jpg

Battlefield is not an MMO, it is an instanced MOG and as such it is not required to maintain a high degree of persistence. Anyway, about the only way PS2 could do it is provision out game servers and host them in proximity to rest of the servers in the farm and perhaps charge players money to use them. I imagine that would be an expensive endeavor.

[Stardouser]

Here is a basic diagram of an MMO.

http://mirrors.fom.nexeontech.com/v5.jpg

Battlefield is not an MMO, it is an instanced MOG and as such it is not required to maintain a high degree of persistence. Anyway, about the only way PS2 could do it is provision out game servers and host them in proximity to rest of the servers in the farm and perhaps charge players money to use them. I imagine that would be an expensive endeavor.

PS2 may have persistence but it is being played like a deathmatch. What does persistence profit us when it isn't being used?

Also, why can't these cut-down servers be done same as Battlefield and located offsite/around the world where players are? Do Battlefield server owners not actually pay enough to make that system work?

[Calista]

PS2 may have persistence but it is being played like a deathmatch. What does persistence profit us when it isn't being used?

Can't disagree with you there but the fact is all their code is written to tightly integrate into a specific environment. I think it would be interesting to see if they could or would create a game server and make each hex region an independent instance. Kinda like BF but with broader implications on continent and world consequences. I think it would be interesting to see the public's reception of such an environment.

They don't have very many players in the PS4 version and already players are complaining about frame rates when in large battles. From what I have been reading these "large" battles aren't close to what the PC sees so I don't know how this is going to turn out. Maybe this hex instancing model would work better for consoles but it would redefine the gameplay substantially.

[Figment]

PS2 may have persistence but it is being played like a deathmatch. What does persistence profit us when it isn't being used?

Sigh. :(

[Stardouser]

Sigh. :(

I can only assume you disagree; surely you don't think persistence fulfills its purpose simply by existing? It needs to exist as an underlying mechanic to make other mechanics work well. Just because a fight can stop dead cold and territory will sit as it was until others come back doesn't mean much. It is regularly undermined by alerts when the winner is granted huge areas they didn't hold and didn't have to fight for. It is regularly cheapened by base design, where the winner between large forces is the one that doesn't have to log for bed.

No, persistence is an underlying thing that makes what lies above it better. But what lies above it in this game remains undone. No attrition mechanics, poor layout, so on.

[ringring]

I can only assume you disagree; surely you don't think persistence fulfills its purpose simply by existing? It needs to exist as an underlying mechanic to make other mechanics work well. Just because a fight can stop dead cold and territory will sit as it was until others come back doesn't mean much. It is regularly undermined by alerts when the winner is granted huge areas they didn't hold and didn't have to fight for. It is regularly cheapened by base design, where the winner between large forces is the one that doesn't have to log for bed.

No, persistence is an underlying thing that makes what lies above it better. But what lies above it in this game remains undone. No attrition mechanics, poor layout, so on.
I think he probably agrees and hence the unhappiness.

[Stardouser]

I think he probably agrees and hence the unhappiness.

Ooops....sorry. I just remembered some folks way back in pre-release thought that if we could just get to where the game is persistent, it would be enough and everything would work itself out.

[Muldoon]

It's unlikely either of Planetsides will be open sourced for two reasons. 1) It's a security vulnerability since it would show how our authentication and login servers work. With PS2, it would also show people stuff they could exploit in the engine. 2) There's a lot of third party software that was licenced. We wouldn't have the rights to open source that stuff.

[Calista]

It's unlikely either of Planetsides will be open sourced for two reasons. 1) It's a security vulnerability since it would show how our authentication and login servers work. With PS2, it would also show people stuff they could exploit in the engine. 2) There's a lot of third party software that was licenced. We wouldn't have the rights to open source that stuff.

Makes sense to me. It baffles me why anyone would think a company would benefit from considering doing such a thing.

[Ghost Runner]

I really just want more maps at this point, 6 new ones would be a good number.

[Figment]

It's unlikely either of Planetsides will be open sourced for two reasons. 1) It's a security vulnerability since it would show how our authentication and login servers work. With PS2, it would also show people stuff they could exploit in the engine. 2) There's a lot of third party software that was licenced. We wouldn't have the rights to open source that stuff.

Makes sense, though that is full open source.

But what if you have written contracts and background checks on volunteer developers? Limiting who has access to it to say three - four people?

I have signed NDA's before.

It would also be possible to only disclose only partial code: what is needed for unit placement, coding and movement? Similar, world objects, if you provide parameters, code structure and a delivery format, new bases wouldn't have to be a huge issue.




Besides... several people already dug into the code and made modded items in it... Look up "Planetside terms of service violations" on YouTube. And secant was informing SOE over how hackers abused security breaches in the code. Even delivered ready made solutions to block cheaters.

[Muldoon]

Makes sense, though that is full open source.

But what if you have written contracts and background checks on volunteer developers? Limiting who has access to it to say three - four people?

I have signed NDA's before.

It would also be possible to only disclose only partial code: what is needed for unit placement, coding and movement? Similar, world objects, if you provide parameters, code structure and a delivery format, new bases wouldn't have to be a huge issue.


Point blank: how do we make money from this? Cause this would be a lot of work on our end for... what exactly? Check Vons Ad (https://www.weeklyads2.com/vons/) and Jewel-Osco Ad (https://www.weeklyads2.com/jewel-osco/).

[Figment]

Point blank: how do we make money from this? Cause this would be a lot of work on our end for... what exactly?

That kinda depends. Personally I thought it a bad idea to make PS1 free to play. It just invited braindead hackers back in without any cost or risk to themselves. :/ Lowering the subcost would have been an option. Before PS1 was made F2P, I personally prefered the idea of over-time loyal subscriber rewarding, which has been implemented on PS2 I think. Or including it as a bonus to people who pay premium for PS2 (two games for the price of one). The ideal one would be a choice between one time purchase or purchase over time until the one-time-purchase cost (and a bit of interest) would be reached. People who have invested in a game play it differently than free account players.

Thing is, PS1 wasn't made to be F2P and is too vulnerable to third party cheating software, there should be at least account related costs to put up a threshold, even if it's no guarantee.

I think there's two scheme's I would consider at this point: a one time purchase for an account key would be the best scheme, since it would deter cheats the most (they'd risk more with a ban, so if they'd cheat they'd do it subtly, rather than gamebreaking: most blatant hackers used free accounts). The other the aforementioned PS2 premium inclusion. You won't see protests against this, since nobody really wants to play total F2P PS1 due to lack of (GM)-support from SOE anyway. SOE hasn't even bothered to ensure all content worked (Core Combat and Aftershock broke after the server transfer to the west coast) and when it turned out to be broken to at least make sure all empires have the same amount of locked caves.

Server running costs wouldn't be earth shattering (iirc PS1 could run on a Pentium II as server hardware) and you've got a Community Council thing running, so NDA contracts already exist and people drafting and determining contracts are already hired, contracts would just have to be expanded a bit. So administration is covered as well.

When you run the game mostly with volunteer enthusiasts, your development costs are non-existent.

Regarding the transfer and investment, theoretically it is possible to ask former PS1-devs if they would be interested in helping to run it as a hobby project for a few hours a week or month, with a share of any profits made. Whether they'd be interested, I don't know. IIRC a number of PS1-devs left SOE somewhat disheartened, but they might just love the game enough to be interested if they got carte blanche to do with it as they'd see fit.

If you could get those folks interested, the investment would be a lot lower. And of course, GMs could have a similar structure.


Currently though, PS1 makes no money at all. So all you stand in losing is a one time investment. :/ Me, I'd make some calls to devs. Hell, if you could just get me the contact details of former devs and a detailed "this is as far as you'd be allowed to go", I'd contact them for you. :p

[Babyfark McGeez]

Point blank: how do we make money from this? Cause this would be a lot of work on our end for... what exactly?

I think concerning PS1 the only reason for most of us asking about the source code is that we'd like to be able to deal with the hacking. You know, stuff that's usually been done by the people running the thing. :p

And maybe we could also fix the broken stuff while we're at it...

Besides that i cannot possibly see any way you guys can still make money from PS1 aside from selling the whole thing to some enthusiastic freaks, though you probably referred to PS2 with your comment(?).

However you could gain some invaluable stuff with a move like handing over responsibility of an old game to its dedicated fanbase, stuff that's highly sought after in this industry these days: Consumer trust and positive PR.
You guys want that. I know it. ;)

[Muldoon]

However you could gain some invaluable stuff with a move like handing over responsibility of an old game to its dedicated fanbase, stuff that's highly sought after in this industry these days: Consumer trust and positive PR.
You guys want that. I know it. ;)

A lot of people ask us to do stuff for free, or at a loss, for stuff like that. If we were all rich and making money hand over fist, it would be much easier to get us to do stuff like that.

[Muldoon]

Server running costs wouldn't be earth shattering (iirc PS1 could run on a Pentium II as server hardware) and you've got a Community Council thing running, so NDA contracts already exist and people drafting and determining contracts are already hired, contracts would just have to be expanded a bit. So administration is covered as well.

When you run the game mostly with volunteer enthusiasts, your development costs are non-existent.

Regarding the transfer and investment, theoretically it is possible to ask former PS1-devs if they would be interested in helping to run it as a hobby project for a few hours a week or month, with a share of any profits made. Whether they'd be interested, I don't know. IIRC a number of PS1-devs left SOE somewhat disheartened, but they might just love the game enough to be interested if they got carte blanche to do with it as they'd see fit.

If you could get those folks interested, the investment would be a lot lower. And of course, GMs could have a similar structure.

Currently though, PS1 makes no money at all. So all you stand in losing is a one time investment. :/ Me, I'd make some calls to devs. Hell, if you could just get me the contact details of former devs and a detailed "this is as far as you'd be allowed to go", I'd contact them for you. :p

I'm unaware of any community council on Planetside 2. I'm not a designer, so I might be a bit out of the loop. And I haven't heard of us using any sort of NDA on Planetside in a loooong time.

Asking devs to work for free is a huge task. Most people don't like working for free, usually you have to offer them money. And getting devs outside the company into a place where they could work for free would be effort on Daybreak's part.

Unfortunately I will not provide any contact details of former devs. I barely know any of them. If you happen to find any on your own, go ahead and shoot them an email/tweet/what-have-you.

I understand you are very passionate about Planetside, but what you want might not be possible, at least right now. Maybe one day.

[Figment]

I'm unaware of any community council on Planetside 2. I'm not a designer, so I might be a bit out of the loop. And I haven't heard of us using any sort of NDA on Planetside in a loooong time.

We had several people on the Community Council for PlanetSide since 2010. Did it for three years myself. Unfortunately we didn't get to chat to devs at the time. :(

Asking devs to work for free is a huge task. Most people don't like working for free, usually you have to offer them money. And getting devs outside the company into a place where they could work for free would be effort on Daybreak's part.

Unfortunately I will not provide any contact details of former devs. I barely know any of them. If you happen to find any on your own, go ahead and shoot them an email/tweet/what-have-you.

Heh well yeah I can imagine it would be and fully understand you don't (nor expected you to) share that sort of thing (right away) anyway. :) Besides, there'd need to be a company plan, though of course, it would be possible to first see if there'd be interest among former devs to work on it in their off-hours before even considering such a plan.

I very much doubt they would come together anywhere any time soon though. I'd more imagine a sort of "work from home" situation, whenever they'd feel like it (but being offered the chance to if they would want to) and organise themselves. Meh.

I wonder how the people who work on Europa Universalis IV MEIOU Mods work together on it. I presume through dropbox type setups.

I understand you are very passionate about Planetside, but what you want might not be possible, at least right now. Maybe one day.

Eh. Never hurts to ask. ;)

[Mordelicius]

Planetside 2 Devs "wishlist"

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/high-br-goals-prestige.216588/

They are getting ahead of themselves again.

So, they aim on saving the 80-100BR bracket while the 1-79 are quitting left and right.

They have yet to provide compelling reasons to level up to BR 80 in the first place (much less BR100). They gave means to but no good reasons for. As it is, it's all gun levelling/grinding.

That's like handing someone tools and telling them 'climb that mountain' without giving any reasons why.

Besides, the reasons why those 80-100 BR are still playing is because they
- are a newbie hardcore grinder
- are die hard veterans
- content with the current grinding/farming 'meta'.

Those who already quit or quit at low levels obviously don't find it attractive. Hence, why focus on those who are already content?

So, instead of that they ought to focus on reimplementing a sound and foundational Resource System. The same mechanics that players have been waiting for since June (?) last year. The same resource mechanics they unduly destroyed for the sake of the Directive system.

But currently, the Wishlist ideas they present are simply bunk, backwards and out of touch.

A good resource mechanic will:

- give players who quit a reason to come back give it another go.
- give new players reason to stay in the first place.
- be inviting to BR 1 - 100 and not just on (80-100BR :confused:. Why?)

And lastly, to be exact.
- Allowing players to switch side is not in the spirit of faction warfare. Allowing an account to access is already bad as it is. Now they are literally just treating it as a lobby shooter. This is an MMO not a Lobby multiplayer game. Why use FPS as inspiration or standard?

It's like PS2 is trying to build that tallest building but they end up with deep ditch and the building buried in with only 4 floors showing because that what the other FPS are 4 floors only.

"We made the tallest building ever!"
"Where is it?"
"Here it is, buried with only 4 floors showing"
"Whyyy?"
"Look around you, every one has 4 floors only. We still have the tallest building though. Only it is buried". Planetside 2 logic:doh:

Why make the only modern MMOFPS if you are aiming to build a Lobby FPS shooter?????

- Resetting levels is also inane because players will not sacrifice all their levels unless they are given a something really useful for it, like power.

Example: In a very old MMO Shaiya. Getting players to max level at Normal mode unlocks Hard Mode (which is more powerful). Maxing a Hard Mode player unlocks Ultimate Mode (which is extremely powerful, but the downside is it Permadeath and cash shop dependent to maintain). Players did anyway despite the gut-wrenching Permadeath mechanic, because the pvp was great with open PvPvE high-end dungeons (no instanced garbage) and contestable access to high end maps.

So unless, they give something like more power. Players arent' going to reroll with that kind of system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGyIqT6HvJQ

[Babyfark McGeez]

A lot of people ask us to do stuff for free, or at a loss, for stuff like that. If we were all rich and making money hand over fist, it would be much easier to get us to do stuff like that.

I hear ya, if i would make that money i'd probably start my own planetside knock-off. :p

The thing is though, studios usually moderate the stuff they're running on their servers. And quite frankly, that is to be expected. I mean PS1 is after all an official SOE product, isn't it?
Letting PS1 run completely unmoderated just looks bad, the game looks and feels like a crappy emulated server, and everyone who sees or experiences that can get a bad picture of the whole studio that way (I know a couple of people who reacted like that when i showed them PS1; "SOE is letting PS1 run like...THIS? Wow...").

I know making it free was supposed to be a nice move (while also saving costs), and i absolutely appreciate the sentiment behind that, don't get me wrong.
But seeing PS1 in its current state - "Party drops", no Core Combat, hackers you cannot do anything about - and all in an official SOE game...well man, i'm being brutally honest here, you might aswell just have pulled the plug.
If you can't properly maintain a game, then don't do it non-properly.

Tl;dr: Money or not, bloody moderate the stuff you're letting run on your official servers. Or work out a deal with people like Figment so we can moderate it for you.

Please. :D

[Muldoon]

Planetside 2 Devs "wishlist"

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/high-br-goals-prestige.216588/

They are getting ahead of themselves again.

So, they aim on saving the 80-100BR bracket while the 1-79 are quitting left and right.



The other two items on our wishlist (https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?forums/wishlist.59/) are aimed at helping new players. The BR unlocks give them goals to work towards every session they log in. The facility missions will guide them along a base capture. And Then there's Koltyr which is all about acclimating and helping new players.

[Calista]

The other two items on our wishlist (https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?forums/wishlist.59/) are aimed at helping new players. The BR unlocks give them goals to work towards every session they log in. The facility missions will guide them along a base capture. And Then there's Koltyr which is all about acclimating and helping new players.

It seems late to introduce NPE improvements for the PC side at this time. Although I suppose the old adage "better late than never" applies. I would surmise this is mostly oriented towards the PS4 launch. Which is fine since a lot of experience was gained from the past 2 years of PS2 on PC and I won't go down that road of "we have just been beta testing for the console" but I am sure many still hold that belief. I really hope the game does well on the PS4!

[Hamma]

Sadly Community Council was never really utilized by Development Teams it was 98% focused on Community related stuff.

[Mordelicius]

The other two items on our wishlist (https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?forums/wishlist.59/) are aimed at helping new players. The BR unlocks give them goals to work towards every session they log in. The facility missions will guide them along a base capture. And Then there's Koltyr which is all about acclimating and helping new players.

1) I also wish that those are enough. I'm not being sarcastic or ironic, I really do hope that.

But I have my reservations whether those are sufficient in remedying Planetside 2's systemic problem. What do I mean by that? It simply meant that PS2 deficiency in player experience is that much deeper than being covered with a band-aid like solutions (and again, that doesn't mean PS2 Devs' attempts at helping newbies is not welcome).

But to elaborate, Planetside 2 has:
- Four full continents (and the incoming newbie area Koltyr).
- up to 100 bases in each continent
- these bases are intricately connected by a lattice system
- these bases varying in size and difficulty in capture

If one is to tell that to any gamer not familiar with PS2, the impression will be is game is well thought-out and planned. But upon actual downloading and playing the game. Here's what they are met with:

Lattice system is pointless - What determines if one is to take an A-B path, instead of A-C or A-D?

Answer: Whatever is good for the farm.

There is no logic to the lanes. In addition to that, the redeploy system allows players to jump around to capture empty bases. The game degenerates into whether redeploying enmasse will stop 48+ attackers from trying to ninja an empty bases.

Bases are meaningless - What determines which base to capture? What determines which bases to save? What determines which bases to prioritize?

Answer: Whatever is good for the farm.

After all the objectives have been taken and battle won. What is value of this facility? Practically nothing unless it is good for The Farm.

The Resource System is moot - MMOs like PS2 are supposed to emulate tribal warfare in their fight for territory and resources. This whole concept flies over the PS2 Devs heads.

What is the function of PS2's Flat Resource System? To allow chain-pulling heretofore/used-to-be Resource limited units (Maxes, Tanks, Aircrafts etc.).

Answer: Whatever is good for the farm.

The old PS2 Resource system was designed as rate-limiting to force-multipliers. The new resource system made it all moot since everything can now be chain-pulled.

In conclusion, what is Planetside 2? A gun/gear/weapon levelling pvp.
What drives Planetside gameplay?

Answer: Whatever is good for the farm.

That's what I meant by a systemic problem not going to be solved by telling players to take an objective or a battle rank unlock mechanics.

2) There must be better ways to create Cert sink and not destroy the whole idea of faction war and loyalty.

The whole Black Ops thing will absolutely destroy any form of longterm faction-based warfare.

Other downsides are already pointed out the official forum:
- Spying. This will be used not only for spying, but also for sabotage
- No Rivalries. This is has been pointed out correctly. There's supposed to be rivalry. For a game like this, it's unbelievably lacking. Each account is already allowed to access all empires so a player is induced to buy into each faction.

Now, they are going to allow faction switching at a push of a button, in-game. Wow. They are literally treating this like it's some lobby, queue shooter game.

Instead they can implement something that can help the overall longevity of faction warfare

Example: last year I've suggested Stolen Tech Cert lines ( I can't seem to find the post...)

A player can use an enemy faction's gear so long as they are certed in that particular branch AND your faction is holding the appropriate facilities

Requirement: NC controls 3 Indar Biolabs + 1 Tech Plant + NC player has certed into VS Max Stolen Tech Cert tree
Temporary Benefit: NC Player in Indar can pull VS Maxes (with NC color scheme) as long as the requirements are met.

Requirement: NC in Indar controls 3 Tech plant + 1 Amp station + NC player certed into TR MBT Stolen Tech tree
Temporary Benefit : NC player in Indar can pull NC colored Prowlers as long as the requirements are met.

Many base combinations can be tied to a specific Empire-Specific Stolen Tech lines. (If the Devs wish, they can use a more complex system of allowing blueprints/components carried/installed to and from facilities).

What's the value of the Stolen Tech Tree?
- High level Cert sink (totally separate from owning other Empire characters)
- Giving bases meaning and benefits.
- Players will queue to beneficial continent so they can pull a stolen tech gear. PS2 Devs like continental queue since it gives priority to premium members.
- Rewards faction loyalist. Before, all players are encouraged to use all 3 factions so SOE (DBG) can sell their gear 3x. But what about a one-empire-only players (such as myself). We can invest on the Stolen Tech cert lines.

An NC loyalist can fully cert towards any Vanu or TR Stolen Tech Cert trees. This is a much better alternative to just destroying any semblance of faction identity and any faction-based warfare derived from it.

In summary: Want access to enemy faction empire specific gears? Cert into Stolen Tech trees and capture pertinent bases.

[Figment]

Sadly Community Council was never really utilized by Development Teams it was 98% focused on Community related stuff.

Yeah, was a huge disappointment for Hayoo and me. :/

[DviddLeff]

Makes me feel better for never being invited however ;)

[Baneblade]

Smurf's only, you knew that.

[Mordelicius]

If (SOE)/Daybreak is going to utilize a 'Community Council', they have to give up a percentage of their control/decision making.

I doubt they would give up even 1% of gameplay decision to the players.

It's just like the old Roadmap, which they advertised as a "Reddit-like" voting.
On paper, it has a 100% trapping of a pure, classical Greek Democracy, BUT with 0% teeth/implementation.

Basically, players can argue, debate, reason, vote, etc. but they still hold all the cards in decision making. Essentially, they've been selling this illusion that the players have a concrete voice in the game's development. But, about 3 months after the original, comprehensive Roadmap was released, it's obvious the list they made was unrealistic.

Later, I suggested they completely do away with the Roadmap (and I can't find the link..) since it's always a lose/lose scenario, but they still continued to pile on ideas :confused:

1) Unrealistic list = unrealistic expectation = tiny fraction implemented = players lose
2) Players get mad, Devs get the blame = Devs lose

Nowadays, the Roadmap is so completely gutted, that it's not even worthy of the name. In short, it's now in a more apt format lol.

[reoiutghjk]

one piece online

[SArais]

They should cut their losses with PS2 and remake the original PS1, as it was also superior in all aspects including longetivity and probably profit. (12 years to... 3?) Give the Cave/BFR people a separate server.

I'm not asking for a 1:1 copy of the original in all aspects, but it had the clearly superior gameplay.

Because PS2 MAXes can't also serve as supply carriers.
Because PS2 medics can't use rocket launchers and flamethrowers.
Because PS2 engineers can't hijack enemy vehicles.
Because PS2 infiltrators can't leave mines everywhere like an unbelievable prick.
Because PS2 heavies can't revive their fallen comrades.

All they would need to make it entirely F2P is a cosmetic shop. Cosmetics only. Period.

As for a potential trailer, look at some of the player's tribute videos.

Part of the non-retension of the game is/was the skill gap and the over-abundance of hackers. People were upset about BFRs/Caves as well, but BFR's were considerably nerfed since their inclusion, which people fail to remember.

[Crator]

They should cut their losses with PS2 and remake the original PS1, as it was also superior in all aspects including longetivity and probably profit. (12 years to... 3?) Give the Cave/BFR people a separate server.

I'm not asking for a 1:1 copy of the original in all aspects, but it had the clearly superior gameplay.

You honestly think that will happen with community relations manager making statements like "We aren't trying to bring a PS1 experience, we are trying to give you guys the tools to create gameplay experiences through strategy." {Source: 2015 Update (https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps2/index.php?threads/2015-update.231548/page-3#post-3254933)}

[SArais]

You honestly think that will happen with community relations manager making statements like "We aren't trying to bring a PS1 experience, we are trying to give you guys the tools to create gameplay experiences through strategy." {Source: 2015 Update (https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps2/index.php?threads/2015-update.231548/page-3#post-3254933)}

Typical Corporate.

Ah well, we'll be laughing if they collapse.

[Crator]

Typical Corporate.

Ah well, we'll be laughing if they collapse.

Staying away from how PS1 did things seems to have been the mission statement for PS2, aside from the empires and visual relation to PS1. Hell, we didn't even have a ground AMS when the game was first released and had to beg for one.

It's most likely not going to collapse. It will just fissile out eventually. Unless they make some fairly big changes to get players back and try to do something to attract new ones as well. But getting them to do anything with PS1 mechanics is like pulling teeth almost.

[p0intman]

planetside is over. planetside is dead. (except for any potential emulation to ressurect it, but that is long term)

[Luciav]

Buenas, qué tal? Me he registrado en el foro para intentar aportar cosas sobre los temas en los que mejor me defiendo.

[MSIOD]

Eyyo Chief, do you think it has improved?