Hit Zones

[Phenom]

Maybe the devs should make hit zones? Just not as much as in say... Counter Strike or Quake. Like the Upper body being so much dmage and the lower body being so much dmage. Because frankly i want more dmage if i hit the guy in the chest instead of the knee cap! :love:

[Terik]

If they do that it'll become considerably more laggy, oh, and this is the reason the system reqs for BF1942 are like 4 times higher than the ones on the box. :p

[Duffman]

i have all ways been a fan of hit zones but it seems that people are too afriad of spraying + praying. IDK maybe they will put in zones later on.

[Sando138]

hitzones = lag.

you see, it takes more time for the computer to recognize it when it has to compute that you hit someone in a specific place and compare ntotes with the guy on the recieving end.

an example in simple yes no statements:
no hitzones:
were you hit?
if yes:

were you hit with a 9mm bullet from a Gauss?
Were you hit with a 9mm bullet from another weapon?
were you hit with an AP round from a gauss?
were you hit with an AP round from another weapon?
were you hit with a missle?
were you hit with a beamer?
etc.


Hitzones:
were you hit?
if yes, then:
were you hit in the head?

with a 9mm bullet from a Gauss?
with a 9mm bullet from another weapon?
with an AP round from a gauss?
with an AP round from another weapon?
with a missle?
with a beamer?
etc.

were you hit in the chest?

with a 9mm bullet from a Gauss?
with a 9mm bullet from another weapon?
with an AP round from a gauss?
with an AP round from another weapon?
with a missle?
with a beamer?
etc.

were you hit in the leg?

with a 9mm bullet from a Gauss?
with a 9mm bullet from another weapon?
with an AP round from a gauss?
with an AP round from another weapon?
with a missle?
with a beamer?
etc.

were you hit in the arm?

with a 9mm bullet from a Gauss?
with a 9mm bullet from another weapon?
with an AP round from a gauss?
with an AP round from another weapon?
with a missle?
with a beamer?
etc.


basically, you can see how many more calcs you'd have to make for hitzones, and all this has to be shared betwen the recipient of the damage, the shooter, and the server. and less data required to travel is better.

[Phenom]

Well, i said 2 hit zones... one for upper body and one for lower... i never said head, chest, leg, knee, toe, epididymis, and rectum. Just 2 but if it would cauz that much more lag then that just sucks.....

[1024]

Still mna, that would DOUBLE the amount of coding they have to put in. Every bit of non-laggyness counts...

[Broccoli Bear]

adding hit zones would make almost no difference in lag (touch on that in next paragraph), unless actual hits are calculated client-side (hacker's dream come true) the packet sent to the server should only indicate where the shot was fired in the world, and then the server would decide if it hit anyone

the only burden would be on the server hardware itself, and while i couldn't say for sure, the difference would be negligible, as simple as a table, guns on the X axis and hitboxes on the Y, just like a multiplication table, the server already knows the exact coordinates of the shot, it just has to figure out what part of whose body is in the path of the bullet, and that's the general idea of any online FPS

twice the code to have two hitboxes though, that's just ridiculous

[Hamma]

Don't hold your breath on hit zones :p

[Squeeky]

Originally posted by Hamma
Don't hold your breath on hit zones :p

Indeed, They are out of the question, They are not being implemented, sorry!

[DarkDragon00]

well WW2 online has extreme amounts of hitboxes and zones if i recall and the game runs extremly well. If u shoot of the cooling system of a tank the shit gets heated and sooner or later explodes or fails depending of the damage done. Thats just one example because u can also shoot the engine and have the tank slow down or fail.

We need at least these zones

1)HEAD
2)CHEST
3)LEGS/lower body

arms are just bull ship!!!

[LesserShade]

Don't beat the dead horse. Hitzones aren't going to be a part of PS, which I think is fine.

[simba]

lol ya like mohaa, or does mohaa really have hitzones? It has but i dont know if it does different damages 4 each hitzone.
Head is one thing that I know do diff dmg in mohaa.
In mohaa when some1 die u can c where u hitted them when they died, they have left arm, right arm, left leg, right leg, stumac, pelvis(wtf is this?) and head if I remember right. But mohaa sux, its not really fun with all thoose hitzones, and theres no quality in the game either, just like BF. BF goes 4 quantity over quality, not good
But I also think they should do diff hit zones, RtCW has head and the rest, 50 dmg at head and different per weapon at the rest, usually 16 or 14 4 rest. thats ALL u need 2 make it fun, more will cause lag and it wont b much more fun, thats ALL u need 2 get pro players. It will b harder 2 b a pro in PS, ONLY BCOZ it got no HeadShots.
When theres no hit zones there wont b far between the newbie and the guy who has played the game 4 4 months.
I wanna b a pro player when im around 20, but I cant practise on headshots when theres none!

hitzone is 4 experienced players mostly so its not kind 2 do it against the newbie.

[Harps]

so they are not ganna have head hitzone? Like i dont mind using a normal rifle but shouldnt a sniper shot to the head do more then hitting them in the body .. kinda takes the skill out of snipping =X

[Terik]

Originally posted by Foster
so they are not ganna have head hitzone? Like i dont mind using a normal rifle but shouldnt a sniper shot to the head do more then hitting them in the body .. kinda takes the skill out of snipping =X

Sniper rifles are for support mostly, there just there to weaken the enemy so the front line guys can move in for the kill and pick off injured targets.

Oh, and I wouldn't say sniping doesn't take any skill, in PS there are going to be many factors that could mess up your shot, gravity being one of them. (the bullet arcs slightly like an artillery shell)

[Harps]

o i know theres ganna be some skill my point is its a lot easier to aim for the torso then the head .. im guess im just used to game with head shots oh well im sure it will work out

[LesserShade]

the bolt driver will be plenty hard to use without hitzones I think

[Tieom]

Not only gravity, but the bullet IS NOT an instantaneous projectile. It's bleedin fast (Faster than the vanu's "Lasers"), but it isn't instant. So you have to lead a target, and adjust for gravity, so hitting anything out of arm's reach is gonna be a pretty big hassle unless it's a tank. Still, smacking down a medic while he's healing someone or picking the driver out of a buggy will shift the advantage to your team quite a bit during a firefight.
Now if only you could shoot through aircraft cockpit windows...

I wish they did head hitboxes for the Bolt Driver only, though. Like tribes 2 - only weapon that did extra damage on a headshot was the laser rifle, which was meant for sniping.
Yeah, they won't, but I wish they would. :p

[Venoxile]

Yeah, ps will never have hitzones, it's more of a newb game than a pro game such as cs or rtcw. Planetside is supposed to be accessable for all newbies so more copies will sell. To sony = more money > better game. And I would go for that too if I were them. I'm just kinda dissappointed not being able to tell everyone else that i own their asses. But there are no skills in ps. (by saying that there are no skills in ps I mean that there's no skill in aiming, all that is needed is to plow into someone's chest)

Yeah, I probably will still play counter strike half the time though just so i can keep my l33t skillz up so i don't become a newb. Hopefully there'll be a ps expansion with hit zones or atleast a new mmofps with hit zones.

Anyways this topic is long dead, I used to be really really pissed off because there were no hit zones, meaning i'd lose all my skills after playing ps for a few months. But now I've accepted the fact that it's not a game for skilled players, it's mostly for newbs and people really interested in squad tactics.

Just my 2 cents.

[McBearclaw]

If you're a good enough shot to hit somebody's head from a distance where an average player wouldn't be able to, then you should be good enough to hit their body from a range where an average player wouldn't be able to, also. So, depending on the maximum range of the gun, there's still plenty of room for skill.

[Airlift]

Video game Hitzones are bs anyway. If you get shot in the leg and lose enough blood, it will kill you just as dead as a shot in the gut. Or if you get shot in the leg and an air bubble travels to your heart/brain, or a chip of bone gets into your bloodstream, or you go into shock, etc. etc.

There is also such a thing as a glancing blow to the head and how its damage would compare to a dead-on shot in the lung. The simple fact of the matter is that all games abstract combat damage out using some system or other, and while a lot of people (especially aimbotters) really like the idea of aiming for a specific location to do maximum damage, it isn't any "better" than a single hit-zone. In fact, the farther away you get from abstraction the more arbitrary your game system becomes.

[orogogus]

Veno, I don't even know how to respond to that last post, but suffice to say I disagree with the assertion that PS is/will be a 'n00b' game.

Have fun working on those l337 tactics in CS. Out of curiousity, do they include any of the rapant cheating (aim-bots) and/or the AWM? =)

[Airlift]

BTW: Hit zones != pro or skill or elite... They do give the advantage to the player with the best hardware and the biggest monitor. With a fast machine, a good cable connection, and a 21" monitor, I am really good at games with pixel-perfect aim and area damage, but I'm not a big enough dumbass to believe that it is because my gaming skill is uber.

[Venoxile]

first i never said i wanted it to be pixel perfect aim, second, skill doesnt always come from the comp, i know a lot of people with complete shit comps that own massively in rtcw/unreal tourn 2k3 (no i'm not saying i want planetside to be anything like unreal tourn 2k3), third, i never said cs was that much of a tactical game, i said it took skill, and i doubt any of you have played cs long enough to actually play in any professional leagues otherwise you wouldn't be telling me that i'm saying shit that i'm really not. And hit zones give the advantage to the veteran player, which is a good thing. Sure some newbs will have some problems getting good at the game at first because of some pros fucking them up, but theres always a learning curve. Sure it also gives the advantage to the aim botter, but you'd think that sony would beable to develop an anti cheat system. If amateur cheat developers can defeat sony in creating cheat/anti cheat software, i'd laugh my ass off. Maybe it's true, maybe sony isn't reliable enough to assume they'd beable to keep up with developing anti cheat software. Oh well, in any case, let the flame go on. I can still see a few sparks. And yes I know alot of that was just a huge run on sentence.

[Airlift]

Allow me to retort: "Bullshit"

Now then, in more detail: You are talking about a very narrowly defined "skill" and one that has way more to do with overall latency than skill irregardless of whether you know someone who is uber on a toaster. If we meet each other coming around a corner, and I hav 30ms of latency and you have 300, I am going to pop one off in your head every single time. The effect is slightly less pronounced at range, but the truth remains that smoother gameplay == more accurate shots.

Here is what I had to say about a similar thread on another forum:
I neither love nor hate the CoF overall.
It definately does require skill (well, mostly discipline) because in order to hit anything you have to fire in controlled bursts or single shots, and in order to really be effective, you need to stop moving (and if you can take a second to crouch it gets even better). While this is definately a different approach from hitscan and pixel-perfect aiming, it requires no less skill to pull off well.

In fact, I would contend that it takes more skill because it is less reliant on connection speed and client hardware. The system in place has the benefit of encouraging more realistic squad combat tactics as opposed to quake-style run and gun.

I'll grant you that we are not talking about the same kind of skill, but tactical skill and discipline are true tests of a player's skill, whereas twitch accuracy is a true test of a player's gaming rig.

It is true that one of the goals of pside is to be accessable, but you're in for a big suprise if you think it is a game for newbs. On the contrary, Planetside (being all about scale) is very challenging, and it focuses more on tactical skill, strategic planning, and group coordination. This game measures way more than just your individual skill.

[NeoTassadar]

Originally posted by Airlift
Video game Hitzones are bs anyway. If you get shot in the leg and lose enough blood, it will kill you just as dead as a shot in the gut. Or if you get shot in the leg and an air bubble travels to your heart/brain, or a chip of bone gets into your bloodstream, or you go into shock, etc. etc.

There is also such a thing as a glancing blow to the head and how its damage would compare to a dead-on shot in the lung. The simple fact of the matter is that all games abstract combat damage out using some system or other, and while a lot of people (especially aimbotters) really like the idea of aiming for a specific location to do maximum damage, it isn't any "better" than a single hit-zone. In fact, the farther away you get from abstraction the more arbitrary your game system becomes.
Why I like Ghost Recon so much. Anything has at least a small chance of one-hit. Head shots are 99% with sniper rifles, and something like 60% with M-16. Limb shots with anything are down around <5%, but still small chance. And also every shot has slightly varying damage. However, a three-round burst with MP-5 to the torso will always kill (I think, it never failed for me). Ghost Recon doesn't have enough players, though. Which is one reason I can't wait for Planetside.

[Cyanide]

I got a question. You can be a sniper in the game correct? Well if there is sniping in the game. It would be kinda gay to not have at least 2 hit zones, head and body. Snipers would be a real pain if they could kill you in one shot no matter where they hit you. And it would be pointless to be a sniper if it required multiple shots to get a kill, even if you hit in the head.

[simba]

ok I dunno really how much different the CoF system is 2 other games,
but any1 who has played RtCW or some other game with CoF system knows several things about the CoF system that isnt what ppl say about it.

1.No matter wot gamesites about that game ur playing tells u, (in this case that u HAVE TO shoot in bursts to kill anything) RtCW 4 example.
RtCW uses the CoF. But there is no1 that accually plays with the "burst tactic", they basically just spray bullets while the croshair gets bigger.
On mid/long range they just crouch, they dont burst. Not many plays with the CoF.

2. You can never stand still and shoot if some1 aims at u! Thats a suicide!!

3. The CoF system does require skill! Just bcoz their aint HS:s doesent mean theres no skill, many ppl in games own ppl:s asses without shooting headshots, that means that u need skill!

and Cyanide yes u can b a sniper :rolleyes:
thankyou 4 me.

[Tieom]

If you watch the movies or look at combat screens, you can see that the cone of fire can get really, REALLY big. Halfway across your screen big. At medium range engagements, you won't do squat if you just rip open full auto because by the very nature of this sort of thing your bullets will go everywhere but into your target. Then your target will get down, fire a few bursts into you, and you'll die (Unless you're a MAX). I'm pretty sure getting shot decreases your accuracy, too...

Anyways, I imagine that the CoF is gonna be the TRs major balancing factor. NC has a load of scatter-shot weapons, no idea how CoF works with shotties, but the VS will be the mastas of rapid fire accuracy. Low recoil energy weapons + Medium rate of fire = rapid pwnage at range.

[Jakal]

Well o guess im just jumping in to give my opinion to ppl who arent going to change their mind anyway. I think that it would be good to have hitzones if it were possible without lag. For example when i first started playing cs i sucked. I got killed every time, But as i played more and more i learned to aim for the head and i did really good. Even at the local internet cafe i was still able to beat almost anyone with headshots and lag (obviously had little affect) So the argument that games with area damage require no skill is pretty crazy. Too bad lag constraints will prevent it form beung in planetside.:(

[Phenom]

lol... i have read all ur responses and i still am in favor of at least 2 hit zones.... upper body and lower body, because as i have said before.... you should kill someone faster if you shoot them in the chest rather the foot....

Vote yay, for hit zones!:clap: :clap: :clap: ... and the crowd reacts with complete agreement :D

[Tieom]

Well, if you think about it, there is no reason why being hit in the chest would do more damage than being hit in the foot, because the foot would likely have a lot less armor on it, and thus be more prone to damage.

Maybe they just make the helmets out of uberanium or something. Oh, and the helmetless armors have... uh... invisible helmets. Invisible uberanium helmets. Yeah, thats it...

[BlackHawk]

Uberanium - Atomic Element #259 - First discovered by Charl3s Uber L33tbody the Th3rd in the aftermath of a Quake LAN party explosion.

;) :D :love:

[Venoxile]

Originally posted by Tieom
Well, if you think about it, there is no reason why being hit in the chest would do more damage than being hit in the foot, because the foot would likely have a lot less armor on it, and thus be more prone to damage.

Maybe they just make the helmets out of uberanium or something. Oh, and the helmetless armors have... uh... invisible helmets. Invisible uberanium helmets. Yeah, thats it...

The US Military would be better with uberanium helmets and maybe uberanium bullets? Just a thought. And as to your post about being realism, i don't want hit zones for realism, to me no matter what the game is unrealistic as hell. If I wanted it to be realistic i'd be bitching that it doesn't take 3 bullets to kill anyone whether in the foot, the toe, the heart, or anywhere. I just want a skill filled game where the people who have the uberanium bullets that come from being a veteran would actually work.

[Gobberlerra]

Personally (although I know this will never happen) i'd like the idea of bolt gun only head shots. This would take a large amount of skill, because you have only one shot, but will still allow good planning etc to beat 1 highly skilled player, because it would take a while to reload the bolt gun (and you only get 1 shot before reloading)

[Phenom]

Originally posted by Tieom
Well, if you think about it, there is no reason why being hit in the chest would do more damage than being hit in the foot, because the foot would likely have a lot less armor on it, and thus be more prone to damage.

Maybe they just make the helmets out of uberanium or something. Oh, and the helmetless armors have... uh... invisible helmets. Invisible uberanium helmets. Yeah, thats it...

Uberanium? lol ... and cmon man how can you say being hit in the chest will do the same amount of damge as in the leg or foot because of the different types of armor in the differnet areas... yea ok sure buddy. Why do u think there is armor piercing bullets? 1 hit to the vital organs does more damage then 1 hit to the leg.... **** plz :cool:

[Shryn]

If you were going to do a simple upperbody and lower body thing I don't think it would generate a great amount of lag, all you'd have to do is tag an if on the end that says if it was upper body multiplay dam by 1.25 or the like. I don't know that it would be at all necisary though because I don't see people getting shot in the foot much. And if they dod, they don't fall/limp. Wouldn't be fair to do extra damage to the upper_body but then not force a limp/fall if it was lower_body, hehe.

So scrap the whole idea!

[Phenom]

Most fps games dont cause a limp if your shot in the foot... though there are some that do... generating a limp would be way to realistic for PS.

I dont think the idea should be scrapped... what are u thinking!!?!? :eek:

[Harps]

ya really theres a limit on how real games should be=X That would just piss me off

[Phenom]

See foster knows what he is talking about :groovy:

[Melbourne]

My problem with the entire no-hit zone/no prone situation is that it changes the entire dynamic of a 'sniper'. Generally, a guy with a chaingun at 20 yards is going to be 3-4x as effective as a guy with a sniper rifle.... so why bother with a sniper? Sure, there may be that one lucky hit on a guy who is half damaged... but even then that is just one hit when a guy with a chain gun could have mauled his entire unit.

I think there needs to be some sort of incentive for using the Bolt Driver. A really random one would be for the Bolt Drivers velocity to transfer into the player. By that I don't mean calculations on the bullet speed etc but rather just a random amount of blow-back from the bullet hitting. Example... a guy is standing up on a wall and gets hit by the Bolt Driver... guy flies through the air backwards and hits the ground. While not actually killing the man, it does take him out of the battle. Possibly it could be used to take gunners off their mounts. Aim precisely at the player and the bloke goes flying off the buggy.

Not saying this is a good idea... but there needs to be some sort of incentive for precision and dedicating a guy towards sniping rather than just putting another man on your assault squad.

Everything has had hitboxes since...Quake? Goldeneye? Something around that time period. Point being is that the boon it adds to playability is twice as much as what it takes away. Halo had hit-boxes which weren't 'standard'(IE Head, Arms, Body) on the aliens there were certain spots you could aim that would take them out quickly. The very large armoured aliens have hinges where their body shows through or where the armour is weaker.

[Phenom]

Yes i wish the devs would really understand that we need an incentive for sniping... i am a awp man from CS (Counter Strike) and i love to snipe... and for all of you who that is a "newbie" gun you are completly wrong... anyway i really like what Melbourne is saying about having an incentive for using the boltdriver.... other then being out of harms way and killing people... but with the lag they have to be standing completly still, or running directly away from you so you can possible hit them.

[NeoTassadar]

Originally posted by Melbourne
My problem with the entire no-hit zone/no prone situation is that it changes the entire dynamic of a 'sniper'. Generally, a guy with a chaingun at 20 yards is going to be 3-4x as effective as a guy with a sniper rifle.... so why bother with a sniper? Sure, there may be that one lucky hit on a guy who is half damaged... but even then that is just one hit when a guy with a chain gun could have mauled his entire unit.

I think there needs to be some sort of incentive for using the Bolt Driver. A really random one would be for the Bolt Drivers velocity to transfer into the player. By that I don't mean calculations on the bullet speed etc but rather just a random amount of blow-back from the bullet hitting. Example... a guy is standing up on a wall and gets hit by the Bolt Driver... guy flies through the air backwards and hits the ground. While not actually killing the man, it does take him out of the battle. Possibly it could be used to take gunners off their mounts. Aim precisely at the player and the bloke goes flying off the buggy.

Not saying this is a good idea... but there needs to be some sort of incentive for precision and dedicating a guy towards sniping rather than just putting another man on your assault squad.

Everything has had hitboxes since...Quake? Goldeneye? Something around that time period. Point being is that the boon it adds to playability is twice as much as what it takes away. Halo had hit-boxes which weren't 'standard'(IE Head, Arms, Body) on the aliens there were certain spots you could aim that would take them out quickly. The very large armoured aliens have hinges where their body shows through or where the armour is weaker. Okay, not even going to bother cutting this up to respond individually, but here goes.
1. No self respecting sniper is going to be at 20 yards, and you assume there are plenty of people withing 20 yrds. to shoot. The sniper can also go for longer and probably kill more people total. Maybe not as fast, but more.
2. You overestimate the chaingun. If you mauled an entire squad with one chaingunner, three average toddlers could have killed them with pistols.
3. Bolt Driver has enough raw power to nearly (or barely, has not yet been determined for sure) kill Agile and below armors in one shot. Will seriously damage Reinforced, but MAXs will laugh at you.
4. Blowback=AV weapons if anything
5. Too many people on for hitboxes, and headshots would seriously overpower the TR. Which just may have made your chaingun assumption work.

[Ouroboros]

Only Standard Armor and Infiltration Suit can be killed with one shot from the Bolt Driver. It does quite a bit of damage to Agile but does not kill them. I believe Reinforced can take a few hits, while it does basically nothing to MAXs.