head shots!!!

[cujoman39]

will planetside have part specific damage or will a head shot do as much damage as one in the leg?

i think the damage should be like counter strike where a head shot ='s death:D

[Nubi]

No specific body areas to help prevent aim bots

[Coliostro]

Well..won't most people be wearing a helmet anyways? Not that helmets will be bullet proof but they should offer a little protection at least. Now, if it was a really good shot and went through their visor that should equal instant death :D


Coliostro

[Coliostro]

People that create and use bots for auto aim are completely defeating the purpose. How is it fun if you have a machine to do your aiming for you? They should be quickly and severely punished be immediate and permanent banning.

Coliostro
That's my two pence

[Doobz]

:stupid:

[cujoman39]

it think a sniper rifle hit to the head should bring anyone down and even a head shot from a pistol should do serious damage
besides this will let people with the best aim be badass because someones head is not an easy target.

as for cheating arent there syestems in place to stop cheating, and i doubt that any one with aouto aim will still beat me to the trigger!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

[Hamma]

There wil be systems in place. Your not going to one shot a MAX or a Medium either..

[cujoman39]

ya your not going to one shot a heavy execpt with a super strong sniper rifle but light guys should be dead after 2 or 3 pistol shots to the head!:rolleyes:

[Warborn]

There should be no one-shots in the game except for extremes, like someone with no armor (just the vest) getting a direct hit by someone in a tank. Longer battles leave more room for tactical decisions and are generally a lot less frustrating. In Counter-strike, you often died before you could even utter a colourful four-letter-word. That worked for that game, because it was twitch, and your respawned shortly after anyway. In Planetside, you won't get back into the action nearly as quickly, so time spent in the thick of things should be proportionally longer.

As for headshots... as long as they're not exceptionally lethal, it's fine. Again, even with a headshot, unless it's an extreme (*perhaps* a sniper hit to the head of someone with zilch for armor) it shouldn't be one-shot. Yeah, I know, all you wannabe snipers want to sit off somewhere and kill a bunch of people without them even having a chance to fight back, but it's not good for the game on a whole. Sure, you're having fun, but nobody has fun dying without even seeing their attacker. And given the wide-open areas in Planetside, that will be extremely likely. The guys making this game had better be damn sure they pay extra attention to the power of sniper rifles... extreme range with zoom capability and high power does not work the same in Tribes or Counter-strike as it will in a game where the playfields are enormous, and the hiding places even more prolific. If they drop the ball with sniper rifles, there'll be hell to pay.

[Incompetent]

:stupid:

[�io]

So basically you want the sniper rifle to be useless?

Something like this right? :

-Sniper aims for head on Med armored grunt.

-Shoots him in the head, nothing happens

-Shoots him in the head again, grunt now knows where sniper is and is heading towards him

-Sniper shoots one last time, grunt arrives and kills him in one shotgun blast.

Ok now i get it.


Seriously i get the whole dying by some shot from a guy i don't see pisses me off thing, i too get pissed off at snipers, but that's their job.

And before this turns into yet another sniper debate i'm not suggestting 1 hit shots anywhere. As i said in the last debate head shots should kill a med armor in 2 or 3 shots, anything more means the sniper is useless.

[Mtx]

Everytime someone says "sniper rifle" I think AWP.

I just don't want to see a reincarnation of that gun.

[Kaikou]

cujoman39, I am guessing you have never seen an aimbot in action...The guy using it just turns to face you and boom, you're dead. Trust me...its near impossible to beat an aimbot.

[�io]

Never played CS so i dunno about the whole AWP fiasco. :)

I don't mind the sniper not having 1 kill head shots, i just don't wanna see it needing 5 headshots to kill a med armor, it would become useless.

And yeah Aimbots suck.

[Hamma]

There are many quick kills in this game. ie if your one man going up against a max and your in light.. your not gonna have much time if they get a good shot in.

Like I said, snipers are one shot only on the lighter armors. The higher armors it deals less damage, but it still does do damage.

[�io]

Well if it takes more than 2 headshots on a med armor for a kill than the sniper will be pretty much useless...

I just hope they don't make it so will end up with 90% of people running around in MAXs.

[Qanamil_Rafiki]

I am nearly 100% certain you won't see cheating (hacking, bots) in this game either, Sony is quite deft at curbing that as displayed in their other online games.

[Camping Carl]

Actually, hacks are one of the big things that worry me. Hacking in an rpg didn't help you all that much. However an fps is an entirely matter. Wallhacks and aimbots are EVERYWHERE on CS these days, and some of the better hackers can be extremely difficult to catch. I hope the dev team has decent systems in place to detect cheaters.

[�io]

Yeah but CS isn't PtP. I'm hoping the 10/month or more will help keep the TKers and hackers away.

[Camping Carl]

I don't see why that would keep cheaters away. TK'ers and cheaters are different. Cheaters cheat to win, not to annoy people (although they certainly annoy me). Sure TKer might not pay 10$ just to ruin someone's game, but someone who cheats would get the game for the same reasons as the rest of us, it's just that they wouldn't play fair.

[�io]

Well it depends on the person, not all cheaters cheat to win. And besides cheating to win takes most of the fun out of the game, now on a free game that's not so bad but when you pay 10$ a month it's a different story, or at least i hope. :)

[cujoman39]

because there are people running around in this game with heavy armor instead of nothing but a bullet proof vest in CS mabey a pistol shot to the head to someone with armor wouldn't kill them but it should do more damage than a shot to the pinkey like in quake 3. peole in light armor would not stand a chance against someone in heavy body armor, because people in light armor have less access to heavy weapons. i dont want to see everyone using rocket lanchers and the heavyest energy weapons, because they are the only effective weapons that can quickly kill someone.

So head shots are the only thing that will give people with light armor and pistols a chace to kill people with heavy armor!!!!!!!!:D

[Camping Carl]

All we can do is wait and see, and hope it's either near-impossible to hack planetside, or cheaters just don't play planetside. I do not personally see the fun in cheating, but some people must I suppose. Of course, if you suspect someone of cheating you can always report them. That way they could lose their account. It's not like in CS where you can just play a different server if you get caught and are banned, in planetside you should have to start over again. So perhaps eventually, it will be the players who solve this problem.

[cujoman39]

i mean who thinks in right about what i said in my reply above when i talk about head shots evening out the playing field between armor???

[�io]

Well like i said in a previous post (top of page)

Well if it takes more than 2 headshots on a med armor for a kill than the sniper will be pretty much useless...

I just hope they don't make it so will end up with 90% of people running around in MAXs.

In other words i agree. :)

That's why i�m so adamant about head shots being somewhat powerful, i don't mind not being a 1 hit kill but i don't want it too low either. If killing while sniping becomes impossible then what will happen is all the would be snipers or covert troops will end up in MAX or med armor and it will become a game of who has the biggest gun not who has the most skill(because i think headshots should indeed be powerful but also pretty hard). :(

[cujoman39]

If head shots aren't more damaging than a shot in the foot then anyone can be a sniper buy just aiming for the biggest part of the body the chest. so anyone can be a sniper and the sniper clase would be useless

As for cheating what would stop anyone form making a aim bot that targets the bady as a hole?

[�io]

The way i see it to keep people from leaving the sniper "class" behind on focusing on MAX the sniper rifle should be something like :

1-2 Headshots for light armors
2-3 Headshots for med armors
8-12 Headshots for MAXs (Assuming the Bolts have AP capabilities)

And of course this is considering headshots require a good amount of skill and you can't sniper someone from 5000yards away. :p

[Hamma]

A max is essentially a damn tank with legs and arms.. its huge. If you were able to one shot it, it would become useless.

I highly doubt that you will see everyone running around in a max.. its rather cumbersome to operate and will take skill to be good at it.

As forthe one shot, thats one shot from full health that kills a light.. so if you shoot a med with minimal health itwill probably kill them. :)

[�io]

I was hoping the max wasn't at all a tank but just a exoskleton, increase the grunt's power a lot but not making him invincible to anything less than a tank...

The way you described it though it will be invincible to anything but tanks... :(

[Camping Carl]

Perhaps, but then they don't sound very manuverable. I would think if you just stayed behind it with anti-vehicular weaponry, it should be possible to destroy one. Of course, if there's more than one....

[Hamma]

Originally posted by Dio
I was hoping the max wasn't at all a tank but just a exoskleton, increase the grunt's power a lot but not making him invincible to anything less than a tank...

The way you described it though it will be invincible to anything but tanks... :(

neg, grenades, mines, armor piercing bullets work well. you just cant take it out alone in a light

[�io]

Yeah but that means 1-sacrificing a weapon slot just in case you run into a MAX and 2-that's IF one rocket is enough.

I don't mind the MAX being powerful, that's it's purpose. I just hope a dude with some skillz in med armor can eventually take down a MAX, otherwise people will have no choice but to use a MAX or tanks in battle so no assault combats no shotguns etc.

[Hamma]

If you have skills you could probably do it, afterall you can move faster than him.. run around him faster than he can follow.. etc. PLus dont forget, the chances your gonna be working alone in a huge game like this are slim :)

[Incompetent]

if your squad is running around without any anti-tank weapons, you deserve whatever a MAX does to you or a tank or one of the other vehicles.

[�io]

Well in the other thread you said you got owned by a MAX and you were in med armor. Seems to me MAXs are very powerful.

Anywhoo like 90% of the things we talk about here we'll just have to wait till we play and see. :D

[Hamma]

Thats because I was stupid, and indoors they are a bit more tricky. But again, your not going to be alone that often hehe

[Jinxmasta]

Wait, Hamma, have you played the game?

EDIT - lol my bad! I didn't see your other thread about it.

[�io]

:lol::lol::lol:

[cujoman39]

headshots even out the field, light armor can be killed one headshot with a sniper rifle and it would take 3 or 4 to kill someone with heavy armor. light armor is harder to hit and heavy is easyer so it evens out the playing field.

I mean a light armor has less access to heavy weapons so they wont stand a chance against heavy armors and heavy armors are not going to be hard to control there just going to be slower giving them better accuracy!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

[cujoman39]

i hope that this game will have headshot because i dont want to see someone in light armor running in circles around a heavy for two minutes landing every shot.

[m0rphiu5]

we shall have to wait and see, only time will tell (with this and just about every topic)

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by cujoman39
i hope that this game will have headshot because i dont want to see someone in light armor running in circles around a heavy for two minutes landing every shot.

What does head shot damage have to do with someone running aroung hitting you?

The head shot damage isuse seem to be unrealted to an inability to even hit a target.

[Jinxmasta]

Just so you know, the light armored people are supposed to be useless one on one with a MAX (heavy). The only way for lights to kill one would probably be a few of them all with anti-vehicular weapons and some luck and positioning.

[Hamma]

Exactly its hard to do it alone, although im sure with some practice and skill, and the right loadout. Somone could do it.

[Warborn]

So basically you want the sniper rifle to be useless?

Of course I don't want snipers to be useless. But you need to put it into perspective. What advantages does a sniper rifle have? Well, let's see: Long range, zoom capability, and high accuracy. And the disadvantages? Probably not that good up close unless you're lucky/very skilled, which makes no real difference considering you can probably carry a backup weapon, and a slow rate of fire. And you want to add the ability to do massive amounts of damage to the list of things good about the gun? Call me crazy, but why would anyone not use a gun that has high power, long range, and excellent accuracy when they can also take another gun to compensate for its slow reload and weakness at close range? Why use an assault rifle and spray bullets everywhere at medium range when you can carry an SMG and a sniper rifle?

Something like this right? :

-Sniper aims for head on Med armored grunt.

-Shoots him in the head, nothing happens

-Shoots him in the head again, grunt now knows where sniper is and is heading towards him

-Sniper shoots one last time, grunt arrives and kills him in one shotgun blast.

Ok now i get it.


More like:

- Sniper shoots a guy in Medium armor in the head and inflicts a lot of damage (perhaps 40%).

- Sniper aims for the body this time becase now the Medium armor is moving around looking for the sniper. Does another 30% damage.

- Because the sniper is far away and concealed in the terrain, the Medium armor has absolutely no idea where the sniper is. Even if he did know, it would take him at least 30 seconds to get within reasonable distance of the sniper for his assault rifle to do serious damage. In that amount of time, the Medium armor could have been killed again.


So in this case, what should the Medium armor do? Take cover. After all, he's with his Outfit. If he keeps his head down, he'll be fine, and then the Outfit's own sniper can deal with the enemy, or they can use vehicles to sniff out the sniper's location.


Seriously i get the whole dying by some shot from a guy i don't see pisses me off thing, i too get pissed off at snipers, but that's their job.

Their job is to add as much fun to the game as every other enemy. You think it's fun to die in a couple shots? Well, you're an exception. The vast majority of people who play these games do not enjoy being fodder for other players' amusement. Realism is not an objective, it's a tool. If something doesn't make the game more enjoyable on the whole, then it shouldn't be in the game, even if it is realistic.

And before this turns into yet another sniper debate i'm not suggestting 1 hit shots anywhere. As i said in the last debate head shots should kill a med armor in 2 or 3 shots, anything more means the sniper is useless.

It would make the sniper useless in the hands of a fool who is under the misconception (*prays he's accurate*) that the sniper rifle is a weapon which he can use to kill half a dozen people before he himself is taken down. Most snipers in games where there are snipers simply run around and use the gun like any other rifle. The weapon does a lot of damage, and after they get a good amount of experience with it, they can take out people using machien guns even at close range. I personally consider snipers to be the elite of a contemporary army. They're skilled marksmen and dangerous opponents. And that's what they should be in Planetside. The player should make the gun dangerous, not the other way around. If they make the gun do obscene amounts of damage, any monkey with a pair of eyes and set of digits can pick it up and probably kill at least one person before he dies himself. And that's precisely what will happen.

And take my word for it, any weapon that has long range and good accuracy will be used, no matter what damage it has. Those benefits alone make a sniper rifle better than nearly every other weapon when used in an open area.

[Tobias]

Us Vanu snipers were under the impression that everyone Played this game for the soul purpose of providing targets for us. Damn those people in MAX suits, Damn them!

[�io]

Originally posted by Warborn
- Because the sniper is far away and concealed in the terrain, the Medium armor has absolutely no idea where the sniper is. Even if he did know, it would take him at least 30 seconds to get within reasonable distance of the sniper for his assault rifle to do serious damage. In that amount of time, the Medium armor could have been killed again.

As i said in a later post

And of course this is considering headshots require a good amount of skill and you can't sniper someone from 5000yards away.

I very much doubt the Devs will let you snipe from very very far away(at least i hope they are smarter than that) and there's no prone position so the snipers aren't concealed by terrain that much.

Any sniper rifle in any game should be hard to use accurately but if succesful deal great damage. Headshots should be powerful but hard as well. Like you said the player should be dangerous not the gun so it should require the player's skill to hit on target. It's not about taking out a squad by yourself it's about using a worthwhile weapon, why should you use a gun that can only shoot 1 shot per clip if it deals 5% damage even on an incredibly hard headshot?

The key thing is to make headshots harder to get not lower the damage they deal.

[BLuE_ZeRO]

Wouldn't it be hard enough to get a headshot on someone that is running or something? If a person is standing still they deserve to get shot in the head and die right away.

[�io]

Originally posted by BLuE_ZeRO
Wouldn't it be hard enough to get a headshot on someone that is running or something? If a person is standing still they deserve to get shot in the head and die right away.

Exactly!!!

I wish more people thought like you and I. :)

[Warborn]

Ok, I'll try and keep this short and sweet. You may not be the greatest aim with a sniper rifle, but I know many people that can put a bullet into your head from 100 feet a way, and that's on a bad day. If you make a weapon that has long range, high accuracy, and does devastating damage, the game is ruined. Unless you have lost the use of your arms or you're blind, there is absolutely no reason for you to use any other weapon unless you're going into a base (and even then, if you learn to blind-fire the rifle, you're good to go indoors too). *EDIT* Apart from anti-vehicular weapons, of course.

You may believe that a weapon which can nail someone from a distance so great that the target is only a pixilated humanoid figure, even with just a body shot, but that doesn't make the game fun for anyone except the snipers. If you can't understand this, then there's not much I can do for you, but if you put your pro-sniper bias aside, you'll understand where I'm coming from I'm sure. However, I am sure the developers understand how potentially disasterous an extremely powerful sniper rifle will be in an outdoor setting. It was fine in Counter-strike, because the CS fans were all over it. They liked it coming down to the AWP fights, with which team had more AWPs and who could put the bullet between the other guy's eyes from 100 feet away. However, for someone who isn't a CS player (and CS is a rather elitist game), that won't do. Nobody is going to pay for a game where they pick their gear, spawn, run off with their friends, and then watch as themselves and their friends get gunned down by a couple snipers hiding in the bushes without even having a chance to put up a fight, and then get to wait a few minutes before they can go out and get killed by someone they didn't even see again.

[Warborn]

Wouldn't it be hard enough to get a headshot on someone that is running or something? If a person is standing still they deserve to get shot in the head and die right away.

So someone who isn't constantly moving back and forth deserves to die instantly? Hrm, right. Let me guess, you plan on playing a sniper.

That aside, I don't see what the big hang-up is on headshots. The rest of the body will be vulnerable too. From long range, you could easily kill someone with a couple body shots, and then kill his 5 friends too before any of them found you and killed you, given the way you sniper people want the sniper rifles to be.

[BLuE_ZeRO]

Unless you're whole squad is standing still 2 snipers won't be able to take out all of them. Headshots should deal a great amount of damage considering how hard it is to accomplish when someone is moving. Like I said before if you're standing still admiring the scenery and forget that there is a war going on you deserve to die and die quickly. Snipers make the game challenging but they have draw backs. I'm sure the dev team will even it out more but I don't think they need to nerf the rifles because people don't want to die.

No I don't plan on being a sniper btw, possibly a pilot or something haven't decided yet. I enjoy playing as a sniper in other games but I want to branch out. I've used it enough and watched games butcher the rifles because people don't like dying.

Question: Is the sniper rifle less accurate at longer ranges? if so by how much?

[Zarparchior]

You silly, silly people. You act like you're playing Half-Life, where a sniper is no more effective than any other person because a) the people you're not focusing on are behind you and about to shotgun your ass to hades and b) even "large" arenas will be quite small compared to the gigantic PS. Snipers have to worry about being ambushed from behind/sides at all times in those type of FPSes. In PS, this is not the case at all.

Anyway for you legion of snipers, let us assume high damage and one hit kills (or close) is very common to the Bolt Driver. Example:

4 |33+ Vanu Snipers hear that the NC is coming o'er to their base to inflict casulties and capture their resource node- er... I mean facility. A squad of 24 NC soldiers raise their proud heads over the horizon, ready to start the initial phases of the attack and - BAM BAM BAM BAM. Two people lie dead. Where the hell did that come from? Joe! We got SNIPERZ! Where are they? BAM BAM BAM BAM (lucky shot...) Three more are taking a dirtnap. For christsake, JOE! Where are those damnable snipers?! Where are those shots coming fro- BAM BAM BAM BAM. One person is sent toward the pearly gates, while another two are severly damaged. JOE! NOOOOOOOO!!!!! ... We'll have our revenge! Gully, Swornin! Get in the back, you're hurt. Smeld, take Donsin and Forva and run to that hill NOW! BAM BAM BAM BAM (the two wounded die, and yet another full healthen soldier bites the big one). Those snipers are probably on that hill so MOVE!!!! Frint, take 7 of your men and see if you find out if any snipers are in that forest. Damnit! I know it's suicide running straight on, but we can't stay out he- BAM BAM BAM BAM The poor wanna-be general is now dead, along with two others. The outfit eventually manages to find 2 of the snipers and kills them, while the others giddily prance away.

-Tally-

|33+ Vanu Sniper force: 4
NC Squad of suffering: 24

Total deaths for Vanu: 2
Total deaths for NC: 12

In closing, with the envisioned realistic and "balanced" Bolt Driver, a small force of snipers can significantly weaken any large squad on their way to battle.

THAT is what I don't want. I don't mind riding the bus as long as a good portion of my squad doesn't have to ride it with me. :ugh:

Some of you fail to realize this game will be HUGE. Battles will not be one on one. A small skirmish will most likely be considered a little more than 12 people. In a game like this, snipers should not be the end all get all. Some of you complain about everyone being in MAXes? Pffffft. In your pre-fect world of Sniperdom, PlanetSide becomes SniperSide. With Bolt Dirver handy, with regular and AP ammo, a few friends, and a half-way decent hiding spot anybody on their way to anywhere has a lot to fear. Game would eventually halt due to everyone camping areas with their |33+ |2if|35 and not doing anything else. Is that what you guys are willing? :p

In a game like this, a Sniper is a support role. Don't get rabid, wanna-be snipers. Stay cool, like your class is supposed to be. :rolleyes: The point of a Sniper in this game is to pick off weak targets that your squad/outfit is engaging in. Whether that's because their in light armor or severly wounded is irrelevent. If I'm in a MAX kicking ass and chewing bubble gum, I'd love knowing that my Sniper bud up there is helping me take out those pesky light armored fools running circles around me. If he "KSes" me, I love him for it. I get the BEP anyway, and it's less repairing that's gonna need to be done on me.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: "Snipers should be a good addition to a squad. Not a necessity, nor the entire squad composition."

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by Warborn

You may believe that a weapon which can nail someone from a distance so great that the target is only a pixilated humanoid figure, even with just a body shot, but that doesn't make the game fun for anyone except the snipers. If you can't understand this, then there's not much I can do for you, but if you put your pro-sniper bias aside, you'll understand where I'm coming from.

And I wish more people thought like this.

[BLuE_ZeRO]

Without having to quote your whole post:

I agree with you for the most part. Snipers are a support role. There are usually going to be alot more people than just snipers to worry about. If it were my squad I'd have the snipers weaken them while the rest of the guys went in and cleaned up. If the sniper can rack up a couple kills so be it.

It seems like you guys are basing your views on how the awp affected CounterStrike. Or at least war is. This game is completely different than CS so the sniper rifle won't make the impact that the AWP did. If your squads are having all out sniper wars than something is very wrong with your team. I'm sure the dev guys will figure out a fair way to accomodate both sides.

[Zarparchior]

Exactly! I don't mind Snipers picking off my squad while their own squad comes in to clean up. That's good usage of roles, proper planning/leadership, and luck. I do not like the idea of a small group of snipers (no matter how elite) to severly cripple my squad, let alone having to worry about a lone sniper. That would beat all to be getting ready to ruin your enemies only to be harrased by a single sniper for miles... Even if you did end up killing him, he might have kilt 3 or 4 people. 1:3 is not good. :ugh:

[BLuE_ZeRO]

Originally posted by Zarparchior
Exactly! I don't mind Snipers picking off my squad while their own squad comes in to clean up. That's good usage of roles, proper planning/leadership, and luck. I do not like the idea of a small group of snipers (no matter how elite) to severly cripple my squad, let alone having to worry about a lone sniper. That would beat all to be getting ready to ruin your enemies only to be harrased by a single sniper for miles... Even if you did end up killing him, he might have kilt 3 or 4 people. 1:3 is not good. :ugh:

Yeah I can understand that people don't want to get screwed by snipers. I just don't want to see the snipers fun taken away by killing the guns. This game is for those who want to be snipers as well.

[Zarparchior]

Yet it should not cater to only the snipers. It goes both ways. :p

[Airlift]

I need copious mental fortitude granted from the heavens above or I am seriously gonna go Afex on anyone who utters the phrase 'if X happens/doesn't happen, Y will be useless' on these forums. You mods may want to think about preemptively banning me if this trend continues.


:mad: :mad: :evil: :evil: :nazi: :flamemad: :flamemad: :furious: :flamemad: :P~ :devilwink :evil: :nazi: :nazi:



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[Zarparchior]

Be calm! That is usually all that game message boards are for: Complaining about things that are or have yet to come. :)

[Jinxmasta]

Yes I believe the main difference between Planetside and other FPSes is the enormous scale it was on. The sniper roles in other games aren't always what a real sniper does. It usually means take a shot within 3 seconds and hope it hits before you get shot by another person. However, Planetside is so huge that snipers shouldn't be powered so much. I think a good use of snipers is to have some in your squad to begin wounding the enemy and once they find your position, send in the rest of the squad while the snipers are still firing mainly at the body to wound or kill since they probably won't have very high health in a firefight. If I were to snipe, I wouldn't go in solo or with just some other snipers. I would go with an entire squad and help them. I wouldn't care if I didn't get the most kills. Body shots shouldn't be too weak and therefore you can severely damage the enemy while they are fighting your squad which will result in your squad having an advantage.

The point is, it doesn't matter who gets the kills since you all get the same BEP's... it's the end result. What would you rather have? 5 kills and your whole squad dead or 2 kills and your squad alive and you've won the battle?

[�io]

Ok considering a) my posts aren't being read and b)non snipers will never agree with snipers or would be snipers i'm gonna step back on this debate, don't feel like wasting my energy typing stuff people don't read.

[Jinxmasta]

I'm reading your threads. But the thing is, I don't have a problem snipers being very high powered in other small scale games since I usually am a sniper but in bigger games like this I don't want to see squads get torn up by just a few snipers!

[�io]

Nah i wasn't aiming you Jinx. :)

[Warborn]

Yeah I can understand that people don't want to get screwed by snipers. I just don't want to see the snipers fun taken away by killing the guns. This game is for those who want to be snipers as well.

You don't need to kill everyone in one or two shots to have fun. Or at least, I hope not. But, if that's the case, then just like a person who has fun by randomly killing his own team, your fun takes away from others.


and b)non snipers will never agree with snipers or would be snipers i'm gonna step back on this debate, don't feel like wasting my energy typing stuff people don't read.

In Tribes, I usually played a sniper. It actually took a lot of skill there, and I found to fun to fight other snipers too, so I knew I wasn't hurting the game by using an unbalanced weapon. So it's not like I'm aiming for snipers to be totally neutered. I just want the class to actually take a good deal of skill to be effective, like a regular assault infantryman would, and to be fun to not only play as, but play against. I understand that you as a player who prefers the sniper role would not want to see anything but beneficial stuff happen to snipers, but that's utilitarianism for you. What's good for the game as a whole supercedes all else. And as Jinxmasta pointed out, snipers can't be as powerful as usual due to the scale of the game.

[cujoman39]

im saying that body shots should do less damage than head shots, because they take more skill, and when i said i dont want to see light guys having to run around a heavy for two minutes to take him down, if the guy in the light armor lands head shots it should kill him fast.

plus heavys wont be walking tanks there just going to be lights that are a lot slower in three times the armor with heavyer weapons. a experanceed play in light armor should stand a chance against a newbie in a heavy, in fact there should be no challange unless the newbie gets lucky.

plus lights wont have numberical supioriority because heavys can match there numbers easily because anyone can be a heavy.

As for snipers people with sniper rifles probably wont be very good with back up weapons or even certifyed to us the.

Firefights should be short and sweet where a few well trained soldiers could hold off an army for a while and a one on one firefight shouldnt last for more than a few second not a minute because light weapons do such little damage.

[cujoman39]

Warborn is probaly the only person besides me making sence on the subject. i like his answer the best, besides mine of course.

[BLuE_ZeRO]

They don't neccesarily need to die in 1 or 2 shots if it hits them in the body. If you make the sniper rifle take 4 or 5 shots to kill someone regardless of where you hit them it's nothing more than a long range pistol which completely defeats the purpose of a sniper rifle. Dio is right non snipers and snipers will never agree about it so meh what ya gonna do.

[cujoman39]

All i have to say about snipers is that they are a spearhead divison with limited use in close quarters, they are the soldiers that take out guard and sentreys so the rest of the squad can rush in after that a sniper can guard the enterence delaying reenforcements.


IF anyone has a better use for one say so, besides reconnacince and the lone wolf thing!!!!!!!

[Jinxmasta]

Since when was a MAX not a walking tank? That's basically what it is except the tanks are just slightly more powerful. The weak side to the MAXes are the Vanu Lancer Snipers (if anyone decides to actually try my idea), other MAXes, tanks, Reavers, and a few people with anti-vehicular weapons.

4-5 shots? I never meant that much. Since everyone has 100 health, maybe a head shot takes em down 60 or so and a body shot 40 (for a light). This means it would take a head shot (needs a lot of skill) and a body shot. Now for a medium a head shot could maybe do like 50 and a body shot like 30. This would mean one head shot and two body shots. You have to remember though, body shots aren't too difficult unless the enemy has some sort of cover or he/she is running at a very fast speed. Now as for shooting a MAX... I'm not even gonna go into that.

Now you can change these numbers around all you like but I feel these numbers create a pretty balanced sniper rifle. Oh and as for the non-armored people, 1 shot to the head, you're dead. Or at least 80 damage for head shot and 50-60 for a body shot.

[Jinxmasta]

Another use for a sniper could be to pick off enemy soldiers from a distance while you're squad is fighting them mid-close range so they won't even know you're their. It could just give your squad the edge they need.

[Tobias]

I read your posts Dio.

[cujoman39]

That is a good idea but that is more of a suport role

[Tobias]

Or maybe you could just go to major battles in your hover buggy and run people over.

[Jinxmasta]

But who says the sniper can't be a support role? A support role is just as important as any other role. Actually, all the roles are support roles to create one big role as a squad.

[cujoman39]

thats true but thats what everyone says but im saying a sniper is more useful than that!!!

[Jinxmasta]

So you're saying a sniper is more useful than other support roles? To tell you the truth, I would rather have a medic nearby than a sniper.

[cujoman39]

no im just saying that a sniper can do more than be a support character he should be the one who fires the fist shot leading the atack even if he doesnt rush in.

A medic is a much more useful support player than a sniper but he can't or shouldnt lead the attack!!!

[cujoman39]

And as for heavys they are not going to be lwalking tanks or they shouldn't be anyway, lights should be able to take down a heavy if they are good if they cant then whats the point of having people in light armor?

[Coliostro]

I think i'm slightly confused. There's a light, medium, and heavy armor class PLUS a MAX? Or is the MAX considered the Heavy armor class?

One way you could keep the sniper rifle powerful and make it a difficult skill to master is long reload time. Let's say one shot for the head or 2 in the body for anything but a MAX and above. But the reload time between shots is 10 to 15 seconds...like a musket. That would make the sniper choose his shots very carefully and make going for the headshot a major issue.

Just a thought.

Coliostro

[Jinxmasta]

The advantage to light armor is high mobility which you definitely don't have in a MAX. If there is no point in light armor, why doesn't the US just run into another country with 10 layers of bullet proof vests?

[BLuE_ZeRO]

Bulletproof vests won't help you against a tank. :lol:

[Jinxmasta]

A tank could take out a MAX too. Oh and if tanks are so great, why doesn't the US just run in with all tanks? You do realize I can just about say this for any reason you make, right?

[Airlift]

Heavy is the same as Max, yes.

[BLuE_ZeRO]

Tanks are great but I think the rest of the world frowns on driving an army of tanks over a city. I don't but probably someone else would. It also takes away some of the fun from carpet bombing.

[Jinxmasta]

Oh and tanks are perfect targets to be bombed too. And bombers are perfect targets to get shot down by fighters. And fighters are perfect targets to get shot down by other fighters or AA guns. And the list goes on and on!

[BLuE_ZeRO]

That's it I'm just going to blow up the planet! :mad:

[SandTrout]

Sniper=Agile killer
Agile=MAX killer
Reinforced=Agile/stealth killer
MAX=Reinforced killer
Stealth=Sniper killer

Just speculateing

[Warborn]

Originally posted by cujoman39
That is a good idea but that is more of a suport role

Snipers ARE a support role. In real life, snipers don't win wars. The grunts do. The job of a sniper is to eliminate officers to both weaken the leadership of the enemy and reduce their morale (both by having their officers killed and the knowledge that they could die at any second without warning). Their effect is very similar to pre-assault artillery bombardments, just with a little more finesse. The sheer knowledge that moving out in the open could result in signficiant damage does more harm to a squad than you think. It's the stupid imbalances in other games that make snipers killing machines which make people think that snipers are all that matters and everyone else is just a target.

[Doobz]

actually, the snipers main role is scouting and target finding, killing officers is secondary. they would rather call in the position of a target and then go away than kill the officer and then go away

[cujoman39]

who says snipers dont win wars? They turned the tide in WW2 for the russians. Because they will have long reload times they will have to chose there targets carefully and i think snipers should be very deadly but very diffficult to use sucessfuly.

Snipers are not just going to attack a the first squad they see(unless they are defending a base) they are probably going to have to tail a squad waiting for the perfect oppertunity, chosing there target and escape route carefully because the light members of a squad can hunt down the sniper/s and lights will not be so easy to hit. In other words a sniper is going to take out a important member of a squad and run away staying around is suiside because a few light armors can take out a sniper with there slow reload times.

[�io]

Am i the only one who finds it's funny that Warborn said realism isn't important so headshots shouldn't be lethal but then says in real life snipers are support troops only?

Kinda contradicting yourself there aren't you? You want the snipers role to be realistic but not their weapon.

:lol:


And since i'm once again posting in this debate(had to point out the above fact) i'm hoping that i can state what i think the sniper should be like and this time people will read it and stop assuming i want lethal headshots on a MAX from 500yards away.

Headshots: should be very hard to get on moving targets(like in RL) but lethal(again like in RL). If you stand still in the middle of a field for 5mins expect to die, i think it's logical.

Distance: it should not be too far. If the target cannot see the sniper at all it's too far, the sniper scope should only help aim on targets already visible with the naked eye but that are small not allow you to see others too far away. In other words once he is aware of the snipers presence (be it by seeing him or getting shot once) he can find him and pursue or flee.

Reload time: It's 1 shot/ loading so i'm guessing/hoping reload time is somewhat long.

Up close: in close combat(un-zoomed/not aiming) the sniper should be very inaccurate and less powerful.


As i said before the key thing about sniping is accuracy not power. What people should complain about is not the power of headshots but rather the diffculty of getting said shots.

[cujoman39]

I mean am i right or am I right?

[Doobz]

well, I for one am all for headshot kills as long is it doesnt apply to heavies or MAXs

it can often be incredibly hard to grab a headshot kill, especially if ur aiming at an important person in battle (that that a sniper would be in battle, would be suicidal, i mean his target;) )

[cujoman39]

I dont know about anyone else, but i don't want to be killed by a bolt drive to the foot, thats just no tcool.

so shots to the body should be less leath than shots to the head and arm & leg shots should do less damage than shots to the body!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

[cujoman39]

ANYONE disagree? ( no junk about cheating please)

[cujoman39]

because on this scale what chance does a squad have of taking a facility if they cant quickly kill the enemy, so players with exceptional accuracy can take out a force several times greater than there own. Making elite players have something to stive for instead of hitting your peak when you can land your shots on the body of your enemy rather than his head!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

[Warborn]

who says snipers dont win wars? They turned the tide in WW2 for the russians.

Uh, no they didn't. You watched Enemy at the Gates one too many times. The Wehrmacht wasn't built for urban combat, and supplies were trickling in. The Germans had covered too much ground too quickly and weren't able to push forward. And then when Zhukov began pouring in the Russian soldiers, Paulus (the guy commanding the 6th Army, which was in Stalingrad) was denied the ability to retreat by Hitler. Honestly, Enemy at the Gates is misleading. All that you see are the snipers, so you think "Wow, the snipers won this". But how many people did Vasilli Zaitsev end up killing in Stalingrad? Maybe 100 or so during his entire time there. And there were several hundred thousand German soldiers in and around Stalingrad at the time. Still think he won the battle?


Kinda contradicting yourself there aren't you? You want the snipers role to be realistic but not their weapon.


I want the role to be true to its role in real-life. The weapon can't be true to real life, simply because it's not very fun to get shot once, limp away, and spend 10 minutes bleeding to death. That's how it works in real life, after all. Unless you want to make it a complete replica of real life, then no, it can't be all realistic.


Headshots: should be very hard to get on moving targets(like in RL) but lethal(again like in RL). If you stand still in the middle of a field for 5mins expect to die, i think it's logical.

A wonderful recipe for disaster. Let's see how long it takes for the skilled marksmen to make your "Well it's difficult to do, so that means it's balanced" justification worthless by plugging people in the head on a regular basis. Which is what will happen, and does happen in virtually every other sniper game out there.

As i said before the key thing about sniping is accuracy not power. What people should complain about is not the power of headshots but rather the diffculty of getting said shots.

Accuracy is relative to the person. What you might find difficult someone with a good deal of skill will find easy. You can't balance a game like this, otherwise once you run into the problem of really good marksmen using sniper rifles, the percieved balance you once had with sniper rifles is thrown out the window. Now you have a weapon that, in the hands of some people, can get instant-kills fairly easily. Or at least hit body shots nearly every time, killing most people before they can react.


Anyway... none of this matters. You're not designing the game, and neither am I, so I don't see any need to continue this.

[Zatrais]

Well, I can really only see snipers beeing usefull for taking a few shots at defenders near a base to keep them from firering to manny AV weaps while an assault force moves in whit an APC or a Galaxy. Or if they are defending they could be standing around on the hills or around the tree near a base to try to get off a few shots before the attackers move into the base or kill the enemy snipers..

Now if the assault should stagger then the attackers will be picked off by enemy snipers unless the attackers find cover but thats how it should be.

As for who should fear snipers... I'd say basic armor and Agile should be the "ideal" target for snipers since they won't have so much armor as the Reinforced. MAX's will probably to heavily armored to be a target.

I don't think snipers will be overly usefull because well i can't see people using other forms of transport than APC's or Galaxy's for when they want to take a base.. i won't mind hearing the clunk sound the sniper round will make on the armor of an ACP hehe.

Honnestly, how manny will want to run to a base when they can just get a cert for a vehicle and drive.... Sure you can kill the driver if they sit in a "open" vehicle but how easy will that be considering the speed of the vehicles

Snipers can and most likely will be an annoyance for when someone has just respawned outside a mobile base.... shooting people that just spawned whit a co sniper hehe.. course if you spawn whit armor and such this might not work to well

Just my $0.02

[Tobias]

*poke* *Poke* The fire is hot in here!

[Airlift]

The tide was turned for Russia because of the winter, the western front, and wave after wave of soldiers fighting to the death. Those battles were fought on such an enormous scale that individual snipers would have little or no overall effect. Both sides were already demoralized by a long war that wasn't easy for anyone and by the time the snows hit nobody was going anywhere.

[�io]

Originally posted by Warborn
I want the role to be true to its role in real-life. The weapon can't be true to real life, simply because it's not very fun to get shot once, limp away, and spend 10 minutes bleeding to death. That's how it works in real life, after all. Unless you want to make it a complete replica of real life, then no, it can't be all realistic.

So by your own words you want the sniper to be what you think is good, realism doesn't mean squat, how is this different from the guys who want the sniper to kill a MAX in 1 headshot? (And NO i'm not saying i want this, far from it)


Originally posted by Warborn
A wonderful recipe for disaster. Let's see how long it takes for the skilled marksmen to make your "Well it's difficult to do, so that means it's balanced" justification worthless by plugging people in the head on a regular basis. Which is what will happen, and does happen in virtually every other sniper game out there.

Accuracy is relative to the person. What you might find difficult someone with a good deal of skill will find easy. You can't balance a game like this, otherwise once you run into the problem of really good marksmen using sniper rifles, the percieved balance you once had with sniper rifles is thrown out the window. Now you have a weapon that, in the hands of some people, can get instant-kills fairly easily. Or at least hit body shots nearly every time, killing most people before they can react.

OK wait you're saying if a skilled player can kill you with the sniper it's too powerful?

.....Ummm...ok.....right.....


Ok guys no more MAX, skilled players can own the field with those, oh and no more tanks or reavers or mosquitos, skilled pilots would own the airs and maybe even the ground, come on that's way too powerful. Oh no anti-vehicle weapons either, a skilled squad could own a MAX, that would suck. Oh no stealth suits with knives, a skilled guy could kill you before you even know he's there. Oh and ...etc,etc,etc

[Hamma]

This thread is too long. Also so much controvery over snipers :D

[Unregistered]

Didn't we already have a long sniper thread, or is this the same one?

[Airlift]

... this is the thread debating the WW2 Eastern Front and how it would have been different had either side completed work on their MAX suits and Galaxies.

[Zarparchior]

Dio... I only feel teh :love: and have much respect for you, but I disagree with you about this issue and with what you're saying.

What Warborn wants is for the game to be fun and fair for all players, not just the snipers. And you know what? I concur.

Realism needs to be cast aside for this game. We have flying ships that need no fuel it seems, matrixing technology, and hi tech weapons. Yep. Realistic eh? You want real realism? Play BF1942. Now THAT is an entirely realistic game. :rolleyes:

That's what I don't really understand about this argument... if you guys wants realism, by all means: play the Tom Clancy games, like Rogue Spear. Those offer more realism than most of the other FPSes out there. If you want balance, fun, and possibly the best team oriented combat online combat game out there... then play NS. :D

If you're willing to wait, though, then play PS. I'm sure it'll be worth it.

But yes! This debate is only making us feel more better about our grammar and our egos. As of now, it is unchangable for snipers. I have the utmost faith in the devs as long as they follow their gut instincts and do not listen to us at all. :)

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by Airlift
... this is the thread debating the WW2 Eastern Front and how it would have been different had either side completed work on their MAX suits and Galaxies.

PlanetSide 1942?

[Coliostro]

I think they should make the sniper rifle exactly like the developers of Metal Gear made theirs. When Snake goes into zoom mode he's shakin' all over the place if he hasn't taken some sort of calming drug Pentazamin or something like that. Make head shots for anything less than heavy be one shot kills but make the sniper rifle that difficult to use so that it takes REAL skill to do so...please everyone (sort of, hehe)


Coliostro

[cujoman39]

this guy has a good point i mean snipers should be shakeing all over hte place and a head shot at an extreme range should be all but impossible for non-elite players

and as for snipers turning the tide in WW2 i didnt say that exactly i said they helped to turn the side of the war for the russians. one sniper didnt help turn the tide but the hundreds of snipers(some with 500 kills)did help turn the tide along with the regular infentry.

[Warborn]

What Zarparchior said.

Also:

and as for snipers turning the tide in WW2 i didnt say that exactly i said they helped to turn the side of the war for the russians. one sniper didnt help turn the tide but the hundreds of snipers(some with 500 kills)did help turn the tide along with the regular infentry.

Vasilli Zaitsev was the Soviet Union's most decorated sniper (he was named Hero of the Soviet Union later on) and only got around 200 kills, and even then they're not exactly sure, as those sneaky Soviets sure did like their propaganda. But, given the amount of time he was in Stalingrad, and the perfect setting it was for a sniper, I wouldn't be surprised if he did get that many kills.

The other Soviet snipers scored far fewer kills than Zaitsev. And none, on any side of the war, got 500 kills. The battle was won by the Red Army, with the snipers just a bit of a thorn in the Germans' side. Yes, they did help win the fight, but if the snipers weren't there, the Germans would have lost none the less.

[cujoman39]

All im saying is there should me more damage for shooting people in the head or else its just a compitition between the people with the biggest guns!!!:mad:

[Warborn]

It's not the size of the gun that counts. It's how you use it.


:)

[cujoman39]

what good is a light weapon if you cant get head shots?

[Warborn]

What exactly would you call a light weapon?

[Zatrais]

From what i've read (can't remember where) there are 2 hitboxes.. 1 for the body (entire body... from your torso to pinky to the little piggy hehe) and 1 for the head.

[Warborn]

Yeah, just to point out, I'm not saying there shouldn't be headshots. I'm saying there shouldn't be sniper rifles that do enormous damage from long range -- headshot or not.

[cujoman39]

submachine guns and pistols

[cujoman39]

your right they shouldnt do massive damage at log range but decent damage at least 25%(medium) and like 10% for heavys or else its useless

[Airlift]

Light weapons are good for damaging people in light armor.

[Warborn]

What's their purpose? They have different attributes. If you've got an assault rifle, a SMG (suppressed, in this game) and a pistol, you've got a lot of options. The pistol is likely very accurate and would be good for pistol-sniping at a range if you didn't want to close in and use your machine gun. And the SMG would be a nice, silent weapon which would also serve as a backup to the assault rifle. I'm sure you're familiar with changing weapons quickly when one runs out of ammo, so that you can switch to a weapon which has a full clip instead of waiting through the reload process for the first weapon.

The lighter weapons are also important because not all armor can use rifles, and not all those who use a rifle will use one which is a good all-around gun. If a guy has only one rifle slot on his armor, and he's carrying a rocket launcher, he's going to need that SMG to fall back on in case his group runs into enemy infantry. Infiltration suits can also only use pistol-type weapons, so they're very important to the stealth players also.

[cujoman39]

a rail driver is built for heavys and tanks so it would be very difficult to hit a light and if it didnt kill him with its slow reload times the sniper would be gunned down!!!!!!!!!!

[cujoman39]

a pistol is going do weak damage unless he can land headshots!

[Warborn]

your right they shouldnt do massive damage at log range but decent damage at least 25%(medium) and like 10% for heavys or else its useless

No it's not. Not if you play your cards right, anyway. Yes, if you go out alone you shouldn't expect to take down many (any, if you're not a smart player) guys before you die yourself, but that's how it should work. If you fight with an Outfit, then you've got a clearly defined role. You're using a long range, high accuracy weapon that does a good bit of damage. And while your guys are engaging the enemy, you are free to plug any opponents that you can, and they'll be too busy fighting the guys with the assault rifles and whatnot to go off searching for you, too.

Snipers would also probably be quite good at softening up the enemy before your Outfit engages them.

Ex. Your group's Mosquito pilot spots some enemies on the ground a ways ahead of your group, so the snipers go out and take a few shots off before the rest of your group attacks, gathering detailed information on their Outfit's loadout in the process.

[Airlift]

Then it's useless! It's all fooking useless!!!!! Cancel the game, let's play some dominoes or some shit, because the whole PC gaming industry is ruined. Damn you developers and producers, and everyone who has ever been involved in making a game! Damn you all! whigne, wghine, wine!

[cujoman39]

this guys on some serious crack

[cujoman39]

So does anyone know if headshot are going to do more damage than body shots?

[Ravon Dark]

Blah.. You people, complaining about realism and non realism and then restating what you said to try and find a common ground while the two extremists are screaming at eachother. We've gotten everything from:
Sniper rifles should take 3 body shots to a light

to

Sniper rifles should take 1 shot to medium in the head

Now, the fact is, the only way to make the sniper rifle powerful but still balanced is making the projectile speed slower, the rifle harder to shoot, the hit box smaller, the reload time longer... or... all of the above. But, I hear the extremists shouting now: WHAT ABOUT THE SKILLED ONE'S!!! Omg... you people... I swear... Ok, you can't use anti vehicle weapons? ok? Because I mean.. hell.. you hit a light or meidum with one of those... I doubt they're living, not to mention some of them actually HAVE refire delays. The way I see it, is that you people are either saying that the sniper rifles should have power but take skill to kill or sniper rifles should be as effective as accurate medium damage assault rifles. Now, I think that's kinda funny considering if you have that optical implant and just zoom in, your assault rifle is now essentially a fully automatic sniper rifle that's a bit less accurate. Now, not only this, but the refire delay is fast. Think about this for a second. This doesn't make the sniper a "support class" it makes it a "Hey look I'm an idiot" class because all you need is an implant and an assault rifle to make your sniper self completely, utterly and entirely uneffective. BUT THEY'RE ACCURATE!! you scream.. yeah? So? Ohhh wow, look at that.. I can lace your body from preatty much the same distance with a good 10-20 bullets before you get off two shots. How is that in any sence fair for the sniper? You are so concerned about screaming "Nerf the sniper rifle" that you're forgetting that it's no fun for the sniper then. I've said it before and I'll say it again. If the devs are smart, which I know they are, they will take care of this by making a good projectile speed as well as adding in something like.. dunno.. loud gun shot maybe.. or maybe just to go with the gun isn't easy to line up (Moves up and down with a breathing rythme). We already know the refire delay is non exsistant or... Insanely long compaired to other weapons, it's plastered up when you look at the weapons specs. If you watch the demos from a while back I want to say the refire delay is around 5 seconds or so. So in other words, you have a squad of 10 guys, right? You're walkin' out in the middle of nowhere and let's say.. for kicks.. that you're all in light armor and headshots kill lights. With you, you have 1-2 adv. medics, and the rest are all assault classes, everything from heavy weapons to assault rifles. First shot fired, first guy killed. You have 5 seconds now to figure out where that's coming from. Let's say you didn't see the muzzle flash, so you're all looking around scanning the horrizon. 5 seconds pass and you people have done nothing, you're all standing around like idiots as the second shot takes down the next guy. Assuming you don't hear the sound, you now have a good idea of where it's coming from you have your first 4 laying down fire where it's coming from and the next 4 rushing, all straight foreward like idiots. After another 5 seconds of you people running straight at the sniper like idiots, another one falls, probably either the closest or one of the one's that are shooting a bit too close, this time, you know exactly where he is and that guy dies. He managed to take out 3 guys which your medic just rezzed and he's officially slaughtered.

What I just outlined above is quite litterally a worst case scenario of a bunch of noobs going against a skilled sniper. As any of you know who have played games with snipers, people standing still and running straight at you without side stepping are essentialy cannon fodder. Think SMART don't say: Let's dummy this down for n00bs. If you were smart, you would have atleast one sniper with you, if you were smart, you would get behind cover and not stay still after the first person falls, if you were smart, you all wouldn't be in light and if you're idiots you'll rush a sniper without any side stepping. If he hits you in the head while you're juking about while running, he deserves that kill just as much as you people with assault rifles who is such a twitch player that he is able to mow down a guy when he was the one that turned around the corner and the guy was waiting for him around that corner. If you can't see the skill in it and you think sniping is the easiest thing in the world, go give it a try and don't start complaining about high refire delay, hard shots, lag, graphics card lag, or any other sort of silly, stupid excuses you get as to why you missed your shot(s) and died.

[Warborn]

As much as I love arguing about how the game should be, as a person not involved in its creation, and with people who also aren't involved in its creation, I think we've already done that bit somewhere between the first page and the 7th page.

[cujoman39]

head shots should down lights do some major damage to mediums an decent damage to the heavys. a light shoudn't be down by a sniper round to the body because thats where most of his armor is. but a newb squad with out a sniper deserves to be killed by one, unless of course a sniper thinks about it and kills the squads sniper!

[cujoman39]

So has anyone read anywhere that head shots in this game will do more than bodyshots?

[powdahound]

I don't think there's any need to worry. Lots of effort is being put into this (obviously) and I doubt they'd overlook important points. :)

[Airlift]

Can someone summarize Ravon Dark's position for me please? :eek: :cool:

[�io]

Originally posted by Airlift
Can someone summarize Ravon Dark's position for me please? :eek: :cool:

:lol:

Yeah i started reading, the first 4 lines was ok then i say line after line after line and went....:huh:

[cujoman39]

Ravon Dark's position is that he is rambiling on about people who stand still or run straight deserve to die.

I agree

[Warborn]

Originally posted by cujoman39
Ravon Dark's position is that he is rambiling on about people who stand still or run straight deserve to die.

I agree

You wouldn't if it were you on the other side of the bullet.

[cujoman39]

I don' plan on being a sniper anyway i just want head shots to be more damageing than body shots which would make close quarters combat more interesting and effective.

[Doobz]

yes but u have to allow sniping to be effective as well, and for many, that means one shot kills to the head on light and medium armors

[Ravon Dark]

Medium armor? Hellll no. Light? yes. And actually, Warborn, if I was dumb enough that I ran at some guy who was sniping me straight up, I deserve to die, I think that and stick to it, and YES on the other side of the bullet or the recieving end

[�io]

Sweet, even if i'm no longer in the debate there are still people to oppose Warborn's bashing of the sniper. Good job guys. :thumbsup:

[Qanamil_Rafiki]

I plan to be a sniper... and I hope I'm not just a glorified grunt :(

[Warborn]

Originally posted by Ravon Dark
Medium armor? Hellll no. Light? yes. And actually, Warborn, if I was dumb enough that I ran at some guy who was sniping me straight up, I deserve to die, I think that and stick to it, and YES on the other side of the bullet or the recieving end

And if you had no idea he was there, it's perfectly fine for you to be killed instantly? So, really, what you're saying is that players should always be zig-zagging, always be jumping, and never stop to do anything otherwise they deserve to be instantly killed? Hm. Dunno about you, but my hands would get tired after a little while of jumping around in zig-zag patterns trying to avoid the snipers who are able to instantly kill people, because it's OK for "stupid" (read: the people who aren't snipers) players to die if they ever get tired of always zig-zagging, and always jumping.


Sweet, even if i'm no longer in the debate there are still people to oppose Warborn's bashing of the sniper. Good job guys.

Heh, this comment reaffirms my position that being a Game Designer is one of those jobs everyone thinks they can do, but so few can do well.



Anyway, seriously guys, this is futile. I'm not a part of PS's design team, and neither are any of you. I've stated my position, you've stated yours, and that's all there is to it. I realize that you -- like many other players -- wants to be a digital John Rambo, and nothing I say will ever change that. Now, try and realize that the betterment of the game for everyone playing it supercedes your personal desires to rack up kills with little risk or skill involved, and we'll be all set to bury this thread.

[Jinxmasta]

Here are my final thoughts on the subject:

WHATEVER THE DEVs MAKE IT IS 100% RIGHT BECAUSE IT IS THEIR GAME... NOT OURS!

I just wish this post could be closed because I doubt the devs really care about what we're saying because there's like 500 different opinions here.

[Qanamil_Rafiki]

We're not asking for 1-hit kills anywhere on your person... just the head.

I think you might believe that to be easier than it is, and can be. Personally, I won't be jumping around like crazy until a sniper is spotted or someone around me is shot.

I'ed be more worred about the hundreds of other people than the handful of dedicated snipers.

[�io]

Hehe Jinx there's only 3 opinions, the anti-snipers, the snipers and the reasonable. The latter is a very scarce group. :)

[Jinxmasta]

Yea but there's like 100 variations of each opinion for each of the 3 groups.

[Ravon Dark]

And if you had no idea he was there, it's perfectly fine for you to be killed instantly? So, really, what you're saying is that players should always be zig-zagging, always be jumping, and never stop to do anything otherwise they deserve to be instantly killed? Hm. Dunno about you, but my hands would get tired after a little while of jumping around in zig-zag patterns trying to avoid the snipers who are able to instantly kill people, because it's OK for "stupid" (read: the people who aren't snipers) players to die if they ever get tired of always zig-zagging, and always jumping.

The first one to die? I have no problem, considering if you're actually smart and with a group, then you should have an advanced medic that can... *gasp* Ressurect you! OMG! Who would ever think that!!! Seriously though, think things through a bit more before you try and bash what I say, considering the fact, that as I stated in my fairly lengthy post just about the exact same thing that it's silly to have a squad without a medic atleast nearby. Do you ahve to run zig-zah patterns? I don't know and I don't care if you want to. If being the first and possibly only person to die from a sniper attack means THAT much to you, have at it.

Now, try and realize that the betterment of the game for everyone playing it supercedes your personal desires to rack up kills with little risk or skill involved, and we'll be all set to bury this thread.

Those are awefully big words coming from someone with such a small point of view. ;) I can tell you don't play as a sniper much on any game that a good system is in place... I know this because you just think it requires no skill and has little risk to the person that's doing it.. That's kinda funny considering it's the exact opposite in any system where a good system is in place. But hey.. if you don't want to believe me look at Tribes... Tribes 2... BF 1942... *gasp* OMG! And 42 has.... one shot kills for headshots. On top of allll this talk of skill you then go off on another point before that... Now, I'm reaaaaalllly glad you bolded it and as you see, I also underlined it. Now... Take a goooood look at that phrase... because, guess what! I'm playing too! And so is every other sniper in Planetside... that makes us... Wow.. One of the people playing it or part of everyone that will be playing it and in essence, the betterment of the game is.. wow! It's formed by us too!!

[�io]

Ravon take it down a notch, i understand your frustrating trust me i understand VERY well but you gotta Feel the :love: man not the h8. :p

That being said that's a good point i forgot to make. I never heard anybody complain about snipers in T2 or BF1942 and both have 1 headshot kills on light armors. And i would also like to note that in both of those games the 1 headshot didn't mean their were 500snipers/grunt running around.

[Ravon Dark]

:lol:

Nah, I'm not mad at all or anything. ;) Just pointing out the fact that he needs to look at more then one point of view. Personally, one shot to the head or two, doesn't really matter to me a whole lot... but, with you gone, no one's defending that point of view against Warborn's horrifically warped sence of it. ;D

[Jinxmasta]

The reason no one complained in those games was because it took a lot of skill. In BF1942, I could only get kills when they were standing still or moving at an angle toward me or something because head shots were extremely hard when the target was moving. It also took a little while to set up a head shot even if they aren't moving. I usually didn't go for body shots because it was sort of a waste of bullets.

[�io]

Originally posted by Jinxmasta
The reason no one complained in those games was because it took a lot of skill. In BF1942, I could only get kills when they were standing still or moving at an angle toward me or something because head shots were extremely hard when the target was moving. It also took a little while to set up a head shot even if they aren't moving. I usually didn't go for body shots because it was sort of a waste of bullets.

Hey i never said headshots should be easy, quite the contrary.
Just read my previous post

Headshots: should be very hard to get on moving targets(like in RL) but lethal(again like in RL). If you stand still in the middle of a field for 5mins expect to die, i think it's logical.

Distance: it should not be too far. If the target cannot see the sniper at all it's too far, the sniper scope should only help aim on targets already visible with the naked eye but that are small not allow you to see others too far away. In other words once he is aware of the snipers presence (be it by seeing him or getting shot once) he can find him and pursue or flee.

Reload time: It's 1 shot/ loading so i'm guessing/hoping reload time is somewhat long.

Up close: in close combat(un-zoomed/not aiming) the sniper should be very inaccurate and less powerful.


As i said before the key thing about sniping is accuracy not power. What people should complain about is not the power of headshots but rather the diffculty of getting said shots.

I don't mind at all that the sniper not become an elite killer, in fact i would hate it if he were, however lowering the damage headshots make isn't the way, making the sniper hard to aim, only useable from a reasonable distance, slow reload between each single bullet and nearly useless up close is.

Edit: I forgot to mention all this obviously only applies to light and med armors, 1 headshot for light, 2-3 for med and for a MAX forget it. :)


but, with you gone, no one's defending that point of view against Warborn's horrifically warped sence of it

:lol::lol::lol:

[Psycho21]

It will be almost impossible to have an Aimbot for PlanetSide. Most aimbots work by replacing some of the files in the game. Because Planetside is online, it could try the same as HLGuard and Return to Castle Wolfenstein by scanning your main files for consistency with the server. Scanning would also prevent people pulling another CS trick and replacing enemies with fluro-pink skins.

[Psycho21]

As for the whole sniper thing, they'll probably make it like Halo, where it is almost impossible to hit someone in a vehicle and a white trail shows where you are anyway.
BTW, anybody who calls a sniper rifle a Noob Cannon is dead wrong. You actually need quite a bit of skill to use one effectively, and once somebody gets close to you, you're dead (they take up so much space that they're impossible to carry with the faster armours). You'll also probably be slowed down with the extra weight in the way that you are for all other Station games - anyone who's played Infantry will know hwat im talking about.

[Warborn]

Nice. The thread has taken the exciting path toward idiocy and repetition -- the very finest in stupid that forums have to offer. Man, this dicussion is really getting intense though. Dio and Raven taking the typical inutile way out with their ad hominem remarks, and the same stuff repeated over 10 pages. Woohoo. Yeah, see you in another thread.

[�io]

This coming from the guy who keeps saying "This thread is dumb, bye" yet keeps coming back.

:lol:

Anyway i agree that pretty much everything as been said so let's move on to something else since we'll never get anywhere.

[Ravon Dark]

:nazi::nazi::nazi::nazi::nazi::nazi:







;) j/k

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by Dio

I don't mind at all that the sniper not become an elite killer, in fact i would hate it if he were, however lowering the damage headshots make isn't the way, making the sniper hard to aim, only useable from a reasonable distance, slow reload between each single bullet and nearly useless up close is.


Why are you so unwilling to budge on this head shot issue. You are willing to nerf the sniper in many ways but not the head shots? Why are head shots so important to you? Why couldn't a sniper position be fun or balanced without one hit kills?

If lowering a headshot so it only does like 80%-90% makes the game more overall fun, then why would you not want it reduced? Sounds like you want your class to be uber and are not worrying about how fun the game is or about game balance.

As far as fun, how fun would it be spending like 5-10 minutes hiking to the battle and then dying after being hit once by a guy that was far away and you had no clue as to where it came from and there was no way you could have had advanced warning. Then you have to wait to respawn and then spend another 5-10 minutes getting to the battle. So you have spent 10-20 minutes of game time and all the action you got too see was an instant death.

I can guarentee than not one of you sniper fanbois can give me a good reason why one hit kills should be more important than making planetside fun to play.

[Jinxmasta]

Now I'm just praying that this thread will be closed because we are all NEVER going to agree on one single thing. Some people want one hit kills, others don't, others want to make it hard, others want 5 hit kills because they hate snipers, etc. JUST DROP IT PEOPLE! How about we wait until the game comes out THEN we can discuss head shots and all that. Maybe there won't even be a need to change it at all because I for one have great faith in the DEVs.

[m0rphiu5]

im with Dio on this one, too much talk on snipers and headshots.... we will all know for sure in a couple of months (those luky enough tro get into beta will know sooner). for the simple reason that we are only guessing.

*angry mode = on*
oh one more thing, warborn get a life, comming into threads and saying this is stupid... is for two year olds, judging by your sig and knowledge of history i would say that your not that age, so grow up.
*angry mode = off*

right, now that ive had my winge for the year, back to civil posting aye?

[Jinxmasta]

Finally something I can agree with! Thanks m0rph|u5 !

[Hamma]

The Devs will balance snipers you can be sure of that, and they will be useful.

Im not going to close this thread because its not a flame war. Just chill and you will see snipers come beta and release. :)

[cujoman39]

ya as long as there are headshots im happy, and i dont care if a sniper rifle is over powered like the awp( because everyone jumped the snipers and that was fun:D and sniping does take skill if you've played the AWP map in counter strike with good people you'll know it takes skill and newbs can drop by the doesens to an experianced sniper and ono veteran player can kick his ass because snipers cant see any farther than regular people can(without there scope), so what ever the Dev team does it will be cool with me!

[BLuE_ZeRO]

The awp map was really close quarters though. Here they could be very far away, not that it really matters. Hamma did say that the lights went down in one shot though and it wasn't neccesarily a headshot. Hmm... that could be interesting.

[Jinxmasta]

Ok so now it is settled so STOP DISCUSSING IT ANYMORE! There are one shot kills and that's the end of it. Now shh and just don't speak because Hamma is almighty and Hamma is correct so :p

[cujoman39]

i guess that answered al of our questions for now!

[Warborn]

Disappointing that there are one shot kills. Hopefully there are other factors I'm not aware of that make this more reasonable.

Glad the thread can now be laid to rest though.

[Jinxmasta]

Originally posted by Warborn
Disappointing that there are one shot kills. Hopefully there are other factors I'm not aware of that make this more reasonable.

Glad the thread can now be laid to rest though.
Life sucks, get used to it :p Well actually I don't mind one shot kills at all but oh well...

[Ravon Dark]

Life sucks, get used to it Well actually I don't mind one shot kills at all but oh well...

Right on Jinx. ;) Besides, now that you know that Warborn, don't run around in light armor and you'll be happy. :p

[cujoman39]

I didn't want one shot kills from a shot in the foot only in the head, but what can you do about it.

I think this is the longest thread ive ever seen. i didnt want this to turn into one shot kill debate(except from headshots) and im not sure if that question(which was a simple yes or no question) was really ever answered, just peoples idiotic opinions about snipers which isnt the original question just a related one.

At least this thread let some people blow off some steam:cool:

[Jinxmasta]

Here's the answer to your original question:
A head shot will do as much damage as one will to the leg... according to Hamma anyways...

[�io]

Ok first off, of course PS will have different damage for different body parts. Any FPS that doesn't have it sucks. :)

Second yeah threads never really go the way you plan, they have a way of easily changing subjects. :lol:

[Jinxmasta]

I thought Hamma said it did the same damage in the body as it did in the head... Or maybe it was that just it was one shot regardless of where on light armor.

[BLuE_ZeRO]

Looks like lights don't have different parts of the body. They're just one giant headshot. :D

[Jinxmasta]

:lol:

[cujoman39]

I don't want to die from a rail or bolt to the foot some newb fired at least a shot to the body i mean come on whats going to happen i bleed to death from the tip of my pikey being blown off!

[Jinxmasta]

The simple solution is, don't use light armor :p

[cujoman39]

LIghts are target practice, but are headshots going to be more effective on med and heavys.

[BLuE_ZeRO]

Originally posted by cujoman39
LIghts are target practice, but are headshots going to be more effective on med and heavys.

No they just won't die in one shot.

[cujoman39]

not in one shot but will it do more damage

[Jinxmasta]

Ask Smokejumper, he should know, but of course he won't reply so I guess we'll have to wait and see...

[�io]

They're just one giant headshot.

:lol::rofl::lol::rofl::lol::rofl:

[Jinxmasta]

The thing is though, most people will probably be running around in reinforced, MAX, and stealth unless they are pilots or something but pilots will be pretty hard to snipe while inside their ship. Oh and stealth are gonna be invisible so good luck sniping them! :lol:

[Unregistered]

He's posted here once or twice.

[Qanamil_Rafiki]

Yeah, being a sniper is a hard life... worse than the life of a tank :)

[Jinxmasta]

Say whaaaa???

EDIT - Oh nevermind, I now understood you were talking about Smokejumper... my bad!

[Qanamil_Rafiki]

PS Dev's visit from time to time... don't get your panties in a bunch :D

[�io]

Originally posted by Qanamil_Rafiki
PS Dev's visit from time to time... don't get your panties in a bunch :D

:lol::rofl::lol:

Do they all come here? I only remeber seeing Smokey and i think another.

[Jinxmasta]

Just about once or if we're lucky... twice a month! Woohoo! Of course, they seem to be real good at avoiding the more important questions while they answer the questions that is only a confirmation and not many people care about. It's sad really :(

[Qanamil_Rafiki]

They only reply once or twice, doesn't mean they're watching...

They're always watching...

:scared:

Uh.... All hail the Republic!

[�io]

Originally posted by Qanamil_Rafiki
They're always watching...

:scared:



:lol::lol::rofl::lol::lol:


....



:scared:

[Qanamil_Rafiki]

doesn't mean they're watching...
Doh, forgot to put a "not" in there... oh well, still makes sense :D

[Unregistered]

They stop by almost daily. You can tell when their on if you look at the bottom of the Forum list it shows everybody that's browsing the forums right now.

[Qanamil_Rafiki]

I rest my case, who's the man?!

Qanamil Rafiki... damn skippy.

Now to go have a victory dinner at Taco Bell. Oh yeeeeah.

[Hamma]

Yea many of them lurk here ;)

[Warborn]

Yeah, I suppose light armor dying in a single shot isn't bad at all. They'd be primarily pilots, I'm sure. If they're out of their vehicle, they asked for it. However, here's to hoping that Standard armor takes at least 2 shots.

[m0rphiu5]

im guessing that if the whole body is worth the same its because of playability issues, especially lag... even if on your screen you "get" the headshot, on the server the target could be half a foot ahead, nomater how fast your internet, nomater how fast the servers its going to happen at a point anyway, an assault with thousands of players is going to put a fair whack of strain on the game, a little lag is to be expeceted....

thus in this situation it would be better all round if you "get the shot", nomater where it actually hits, same damage

[Jinxmasta]

Very true Morphius! I have had this happen to me many times in America's Army (not sniping, just shooting) and that has far less people and I also have a cable modem. It is probably the most annoying thing ever so I agree that it shouldn't matter if it is a head shot or not.

[cujoman39]

ya i supose that server issues are involved but doesn't that make headshots all the more precous?

[Corbie]

One thing to remember is that in every FPS to date, the maps have been made for 60 players or so at the MOST. The maps in any given FPS is about 1/1000th the size of a continent in PS.


keeping that in mind.. consider that maps in an FPS are made from the ground up with certain things in mind. They make this building for snipers to sit in, these bushes for cover..this rubble for hiding behind..etc..etc..etc.. in PS..the terrain is randomly generated for much of it..and there are huge stretches of open ground. See, if you were a sniper with a basalisk..all you would have to do is find a group of enemies..and stay outside their range.. they cant find cover because they are in an open area.. and if you can find a good place to hide.. over a hill or behind a tree etc..etc..etc.. well..you can probably take out quite a few of them before they can do anything.

The point im trying to make is, in a regular FPS..people who arent snipers are provided with cover so that they can defend against sniper fire.. in an FPS of PS's scale..we wont have that luxury.. and thats why instant kill sniper rifles arent a good idea.

[Coliostro]

Originally posted by Corbie
The point im trying to make is, in a regular FPS..people who arent snipers are provided with cover so that they can defend against sniper fire.. in an FPS of PS's scale..we wont have that luxury.. and thats why instant kill sniper rifles arent a good idea. [/B]


He's got a point. Frankly though it doesn't really matter. This issue has been beaten to death over the past few days and it's really become rather boring. I've seen could opinions on both sides and at times people said some interesting things. However, the fact is, what we talk about really isn't going to change anything at this point so why worry about it. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

Coliostro

[cujoman39]

why must you say this thread is to long or pointless the only thing you are doing is making it longer and bringing it up again , plus no one wants to read you saying uh this is pointless and it should end but i going to bring it up again


d'oh
i brought it up again:):P~

[Kriege]

I dont think sniper will be much of a pain because as big as the map scale of this game is. Most people will be likely to use a vehicle to travel, which is hard for a sniper to kill unless he get one of those anti vehicle thing :D

[�io]

In hopes of not restarting this whole debate a 3rd time i'll be as brief as possible.

If you can't hide from snipers how can they hide from you? And if you're in the middle of a field in light or med armor with no vehicle then your death is your own fault.

[cujoman39]

congats!
we finally hit 200 post now thats rediculous and i started it
i want to thank all of the little people i stepped to get here and thanks to everyone who contributed!!!

[�io]

You're very much welcome. :)

[cujoman39]

ya has anyone seen a longer thread.

mabey i should start a new thread about another contriversial subject.

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by cujoman39
ya has anyone seen a longer thread.

Here or anywhere? Here no, otherplaces yes.

[Hamma]

Enough with teh snipers already :ugh:

[�io]

You know i've been thinking i think the sniper should be capable of killing a MAX with 1 bodyshot. Also he should be able to tank down any tanks with 2 shots max.

;)

[Zarparchior]

Everyone's forgotten by now, but all of you are not cool (like Scott Titterman). Nigh the entire page before this one consists of saying, "warborn j00 sux0r j00 dont know what ur takking abut SNIPERZ RULE!" I'm sorry, but WTF? Aren't we the smart and teh :love: filled boards? The point of a debate is to have two sides of the argument. If Warborn is one of the few people who agrees with me and actually posts on this sorry thread when I was away is great! You |33+ sniperz ganging up on him and telling him that's the way life is and assaulting him personally is not.

No, I'm not bringing up head shots again. I think we all agree that nothing we say or do will change the way this game is. To add to the hill of beans, none of us with the exception of Hamma and I have played the game. So let us not bicker about things we have not even experienced yet. Carry on. :ugh: :p

[Jinxmasta]

I never said snipers rule and I never said they sucked and I never said Warborn sucked. All I said was, whatever the devs have for us, is good enough.

[Zarparchior]

*BUMP*

/me quickly dons flame retardant enviro-suit

:lol: :lol: :lol:

(PS: like many have said to you Jinx, I wasn't aiming that at you. ;))