Would this work?

[Ginzue]

What this is: Its a battleplan my friend and I made up for my Outfit the Chaos Warriors.

We plan on having about 60people
You can see in the picture how its split up.
30 people for the Tank division (yes 30 :D )
First Platoon
Three groups of 3 Prowlers (9 people) and one Lighting (1 person)
Second Platoon
10 Mini Chaingun and Cycler users
10 MAX armors (3 AA, 4 AI, 3 AV)
4 Snipers (2 on each side, with scouts somtimes)
6 Reavers (or most of the time 4 or 3 reavers and 6 snipers :D)

My question is would a formation like this work? Any suggestions would be great :)

Here is a quick drawing

http://www.eqxp.com/images/bplan1.jpg

[The President]

Seems sturdy, but a couple questions..whats the longe lightning serve to do, secondly will your reavers serve as merely air-based assault or will they couple for recon?

-The President:sniper:

[Deadlock]

thats pretty organized to be a "chaos" warrior :D

[Prowler]

:cool:

[Prowler]

looks like jelly beans. mmmmmmmmm

[Frozen-Monkey]

interiesting, is this an ofensive or defensive formation?

what about:
gunships (galaxys)?
medics?
engineers?

Is that your only battle plan or do you have a defensive plan?
Will this be a quick land men for a ground assualt or attack from another base?
Why so many tanks?
Is anyone gonna guard the AMS?
What happens after the initial attack (everything usually goes to hell)?

(Normally im not a jerk like this but i want you to thinck it over more)

[Venoxile]

It doesn't really make any sense due to there will never be your entire outfit online and everyone communicating to eachother to all get in one place. And it's too organized, it'll never work. No person can be expected to be that organized, to move in a straight line and have everyone in their "special" spots.

[Frozen-Monkey]

i know but that is an interesting plan you have
the outfit im in, we'll probably just drop in a bunch of guys and everyone will follow the leader.

[The President]

Exactly, in the heat of battle things go wrong, I know not one soldier who in the face of certain death will remain in his assigned position for the sake of the formation. That aside, if you cut down the number of people to a more feasible number and diverted some of the tank force to more necessary locations, guarding the AMS or front line, it may just work.

-The President:sniper:

[Frozen-Monkey]

Originally posted by The President
Exactly, in the heat of battle things go wrong, I know not one soldier who in the face of certain death will remain in his assigned position for the sake of the formation. That aside, if you cut down the number of people to a more feasible number and diverted some of the tank force to more necessary locations, guarding the AMS or front line, it may just work.

-The President:sniper:

exactly, now we get to the main problem, what happens after the formation breacks

[Jebus]

It's always worth a try though. Isnt it???:D

[The President]

Jebus that works both ways, yes you could try it out but whats the point if its doomed to fail. Like I said if he reorganized some of that force , cut it down, and spread out specialized tasks that just may work. 60 people on at one time and working in exact unity is just short of impossible. All in all that plan looks like it's been thought over greatly but it has certain flaws. If taken back to the drawing boards I think it could be turned into a worthy formation.

-The President:sniper:

[Frozen-Monkey]

Originally posted by Jebus
It's always worth a try though. Isnt it???:D

true, true well try it when the game comes out and you have enough people

[Ginzue]

Ill start with the pers then on monkey.

Seems sturdy, but a couple questions..whats the longe lightning serve to do, secondly will your reavers serve as merely air-based assault or will they couple for recon?

The Lightings will be to just make shure the AMS dosent get its ass kicked and just fore a little bit of cover on the outsides. The reavers will also server as recon (I have a godley pilot (real pilot) leading them).

interiesting, is this an ofensive or defensive formation?

This is a offensive formation, will have a similar one for defence with a few tweaks.

what about:
gunships (galaxys)?
medics?
engineers?

I was planning on having a sepreat Galaxy for each group of warriors. I left out the Medics and Engineers becacsue once the initail formation breaks up they would take action.

Is that your only battle plan or do you have a defensive plan?
Will this be a quick land men for a ground assualt or attack from another base?
Why so many tanks?
Is anyone gonna guard the AMS?
What happens after the initial attack (everything usually goes to hell)?
There is a defensive plan. This will be an attack from another base/sanctuary warps, a similar (with many less tanks) will be for quick attack. So many tanks becacsue of their power, all thoses tanks would be a truley fearsome site. Various Lightings will guard the AMS and probly the reavers (when not blitzcreaging) will guard the ams and serve as recon. Once the formation breaks up, they will be lead by ther squad commanders and toon leaders. Such as the 3 prowler squads.
No offence taken Frozen Monkey :p

[BlakkyZ8]

After the formation breaks which is sure to happen I assume most would run for the nearest cover. Getting the troops back together into assigned positions would be impossible unless your outfit members are robots. The outfit sounds good except for the whole formation thing. ALso about the tanks... it sounds good... but that many tanks would most likely cause alot of confusion. After the tanks were destroyed or the crew members are forced to bail you are left with little more than lightly armed targets for the enemy....

Still it sounds cool:).


EDIT: sorry must have been typing while you posted;)

[Ginzue]

I my no means ment that formation to stay like that though the battle, its just a way to see the general ayrea of where the people should be, once the attack starts, the commanders of the squads will be leading their squad independly and with evaryone doing thier own thing to consume the enemy. They would all be guided in the general direction by the toon leader (me:D ).

[Terik]

Base assualt: Load your grunts onto a sunderer and have the maxes keep up with it with there run ability while the tanks form a box around them and the reavers repel air attacks until you reach the enemy base. Using a galaxy would not be a good idea if your trying to mobilize multiple MAXs becuase they can only carry 2. Also, when you deploy your troops allow them to fight from behind cover or concealment but don't let them stray too far from eachother.

Edit: Forgot about the snipers, keep your snipers concealed with a good view of the area your attacking, make sure they are grouped with somone who can point out targets so they can concentrate there fire on one target at a time.

[Frozen-Monkey]

in the future you probably should include all this stuff, over all once you think about it, its a very good battle plan and would probably be very efective.

well i gotta go, im starvin seeya:D

[Ginzue]

Member, MAXs don't run THAT slow heh. There are only 10 MAXs so I think it wouldent be that diffacult for them to run along the prowlers.

[Ginzue]

Well thanks Frozen-Monkey for the feedback :D
Also, this is my Largest battle plan, I have many other smaller ones (consistion of sunderers and infaltraters and such) this is just for takeing out streems of bases, basicly take over, heal and regroup, attack again.

[Ginzue]

Can some more critisism be poasted here? I want to get rid of alot of weeknesses.

[Cyanide]

That would do fine for a flat ground assault in a large open area. But if there are hillls and other terrain you need to use the ground to your advantage. Also, comming in all at once with that stuff is not the most effective use.

Here's how i would use that to attack a base:

http://www.gnomelan.com/images/bplan2flank.jpg

The heavy group of tanks and maxes should attack first and must stay back and fire from a distance. When the enemy forces engage the heavy group the fast attack infantry and sniper/reaver groups should close to destroy the enemy and catch them in a cross fire of chainguns, rockets, and bolts. The intense commotion should create a diversion to allow the infiltrator quick easy access to the base.

In any attack situation you should try to attack from many sides and get the enemy in a cross fire. Attacking frontally will get you killed if the enemy out numbers you or has more powerful units than you. Flanking however causes confusion in the enemy and traps them in your cross fire. Not only that but it keeps them from focusing their fire on any single division of your forces while making it easier for your forces to focus their fire. Flanking will allow a small force to bring down a larger more powerfull force for these reasons. Anybody who's spent more than 2 years playing RTS games knows this quite well.

[Jakal]

The only weaknesses i can see are that you wont have that many people. But thats already been discussed. Also if your prowlers and maxes get taken down b4 you take a base then your screwed. Other than that its a good plan.

[Ginzue]

Cyanide, thats reall cool you used the same pic and uploaded it :lol:
That is actaully a very nice solid plan (good job :thumbsup: ), I think I would replace the yello dots with more prowlers and Maruaders lol, I love those things.

[Terik]

I see shitloads of weaknesses if your going to use these two formations to get your troops to the base. See my previous post with the box formation thing.

[Ginzue]

Looking at the second one, I think I would put more chars on the right side to even it out, I probly would paint 3 targets on the base, the one to the right, middle and left and for the squads I assign to attack one of the points so they know where to come from. Terik, please give feedback insted of telling me to look though the fourms for somthing that I have no clue what it is :rolleyes: .

[Terik]

Originally posted by Ginzue
Looking at the second one, I think I would put more chars on the right side to even it out, I probly would paint 3 targets on the base, the one to the right, middle and left and for the squads I assign to attack one of the points so they know where to come from. Terik, please give feedback insted of telling me to look though the fourms for somthing that I have no clue what it is :rolleyes: .

Dude, the thing I pointed you to is the 2nd post from the top on this page. :rolleyes:

But anyway here, I'll write it again and more clearly for ya, gimme a sec.

Base assualt plan:

Squad 1: This group will be first to go in and will consist of 10 AI MAXs

Squad 2: This group will consist primarily of engineers, medics, and hackers.

Squad 3: The snipers, make sure to asign a good commander to them as he will allow them to concentrate there firepower on a single target at a time more easily.

Squad 4: The Tanks, they will protect your troops en route to the base and secure it's perimeter.

Squad 5: The reavers, they will fill the same role as the tanks.

Squad 6: the AMS guys, they will set up, maintain, and defend an AMS in the area.

(I guess you could do without the tanks as the reavers can fill there role quite easily.)

Squad 1 and 2 will load up into sunderers, the remainning MAX armors will use there run ability to keep up with the convoy. When the sunderers arive at the enemy base, squad 1 will make there way to the control room with Squad 2 giving them support

Squad 3 will move in seperatly on low profile vehicles, maybe 20 to 30 minutes before the actuall assualt begins. They will give covering fire to squads 1 and 2 as they enter the base.

Squad 4 (optional) will set up a box like formation around the sunderers. When the sunderers have succesfully deployed the troops squad 4 will prevent the base from getting any outside help.

Squad 5: Squad 5's job will be identical to squad 4's

Squad 6: It's pretty obvious what these guys are going to do. :p

Note: You might want to send some of the squad in first (if they have infiltrator certs) to find the fastest route to the control room from the entrance.

I've excluded the AV and AA MAXs becuase the reavers and tanks can already fullfill that role.

[Ginzue]

Oh thought you were telling me to look for other posts of your heh. Cool, some good info there, I think once I refine this plan it will turn out useful.

[Ginzue]

Hey, looking at that setup again Terik, thats really good. The only thing bothering me is where do the Chaingun infantry fit in? They do a great job of clearing out stuff.

[Cyanide]

Well i haven't played the game yet so i don't know the durability or offensive power of any of these units very well. My little diagram is just a general tactic. If any of you have ever played RTS games religiously (like i have in the past) you know that the best way to maximize your forces is to first attack the enemy with high hitpoint units (tanks and maxes in this case). When the enemy engages the high hitpoint units you bring in a fast attack force from the flanks. This way your low HP units take less damage from the enemy because the high hitpoint units are already the enemys primary target. A half dead infantry man still packs the same punch as a full health one. This is why you use tanks and maxes to absorb the damage and keep your infantry and lighter vehicles alive. They should be able to kill the enemy before the high HP units die.

I used buggies/basilisks because they can quickly flank in from the side and mow down the enemy with their highpowered chainguns. They also serve to keep the enemy focused on the front flank of prowlers and not firing so much at the chaingun infantry. If you flanked with more prowlers people will begin firing in the direction of the flanks more quickly. Also the more prowlers you have the more AA you need. From what i've seen reavers eat tanks for breakfast. However the buggies or banshees are harder targets for enemy air.

[wildstar14]

Here is how I would arrange your task force
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/anbdesign1/myhomepage/bplan1.jpg

Notes:
This would be a formation for moving your outfit. The snipers, and the AV-maxes are extraneous particularly with all the armor. This is bigger than the 60 man outfit you envisioned but I would recommend that you could make up your rearguard/reserve out of conscripts or guys trying out for your outfit.

Each of the four elements of your force consists of 20 guys divided into two squads.

Calvary Squad:
6 tank operators
AA-Max
Baslisk Rider-scout
lightning pilot
Sunderer pilot

Infantry Squad:
8 reinforced armor guys in Sunderer
2 AI-Max's in Sunderer

Each element is self-contained with its own armor, infantry, scouting and anti-air capabilities. Ideally, there would be one medic, one engineer, and one hacker in each element. They don't have to worry about holding a tight position formation as long as they realize where they need to be in relation to the AMS. Right, left, front or rear.

I selected baslisks for the scout role because they are percieved as low value targets and when detected may by viewed as a lone wolf player or someone out exploring. A reaper squadron is an instant tip-off that something is amiss, although you could still use it for close support. I turned one of your reapers into a galaxy which could be used for re-inforcements if you lose any of your vehicles.

This formation has the advantage of being able to absorb and respond to a spoiling attack from any direction.

During an attack on a base or enemy force, I would engage in a frontal assault with two of the elements, use a third for a flanking attack. The rear-guard element(which would be made up of your worst/lagging troops) would guard the AMS and provide a tactical reserve to exploit gains made by your other elements.

If you make it to the enemy base, you should be able to deploy a force of 30 reinforced infantry +6 AI Maxes with an infantry reserve to guard the AMS.

[Terik]

Although I like your idea of distributing all the hackers and medics and all that among each squad I think specialization would be a good idea in a base assualt since everyone will be moving together. One squad could specialize in MAX armors while the second infantry squad could specialize in healing and repair and hacking to maintain the maxs while there group leaders link there squads to form a platoon.

Remember, indoor combat can get damn intense so you want to try to get your troops in there as unscathed as possible. In order to do this your going to have to send in your tanks first with the sunderers and MAX armors who couldn't be fit into them following close behind. The tanks will clear out the base's courtyard while the sunderers deploy there troops as close to a door as possible. After they make it inside the complex, they will have to remain together all the way to the control room, while squad 1 (the MAXs) will clear a path to it for squad 2 (the medics engis and hackers) who will maintain the MAXs. As for the tanks, they should spread themselves out a little so that they don't all get taken out by a single reaver and destroy all incomming transports. Wouldn't hurt to dedicate a squad to transporting felled troops and maintainning an AMS either.

[Ginzue]

Well the group of 10 MAXs to clear out things is a great idea, but where will the Chaingun infantry fit in? They seem to be very usefull in assults.

[Ginzue]

Ok I drew up another one, this one is more amied twards about 30-40 (Im very flexable with arranging diffrent amounts troops).


http://www.eqxp.com/images/bplan3.jpg

I call it the evil snowman!

[BlakkyZ8]

The snow man looks good but from experience is RTS's Tanks should be further ahead.

[Destroyeron]

Heres my plan: Everybody charge in, blow as many enemies away as you can, then hack the base.

[Cyanide]

I think the best movement formation is one shaped like box. With the AMS in the center. Then a box of prowlers surrounding that, with the sunderers and lightnings in a box around those. Then the AA maxes in a box around those. Then the reavers in a box outside of that and the basilisks on the very farthest out points of the box for early attack warning. The galaxy should fly above the AMS.

This formation works because the prowlers can shoot over the lightnings and sunderers and the lightinings and sunderers can shoot over the maxes. This allows your units to throw the maximum possible firepower at the enemy while protecting the units that are most vulnerable to infantry. It also provides for easy formation maintenance, which is essential to maintaining the formation when the chaos of battel breaks out. A scattered formation will break up more easily if it is flanked because there is more confusion amoung your ranks. The box formation is easy to maintain and thus a more stable formation.

I'd put up a pic of what i'm talking about but my webhost is a F*cking piece of sh@t and couldn't run a name server if their lives depended on it. If anybody knows of a good free host that allows external links PM me please.

[TheGreatCarbini]

If my commander told me "SOLDIER, FALL INTO SNOWMAN POSITION NOW," I think I would frag him right then and there.

[Ginzue]

I think it owuld be great, you always need to use names people can easly reambemer, SNOWMAN and LIGHTBULB are my favories.

Chaos Warriors (http://www.chaos-warriors.com)

[Cyanide]

I could deal with "snowman" position. Now if they told me to get into missionary position. Then i'd have to kill them. :D

[Ginzue]

:lol:

[Terik]

Originally posted by Ginzue
Well the group of 10 MAXs to clear out things is a great idea, but where will the Chaingun infantry fit in? They seem to be very usefull in assults.

Well, you could have your medics hackers and engis certify in heavy assualt also if they have enough cert points left. They could also cover the MAXs from behind from any remainning forces in addition to maintainning them.

Originally posted by Cyanide
I think the best movement formation is one shaped like box. With the AMS in the center. Then a box of prowlers surrounding that, with the sunderers and lightnings in a box around those. Then the AA maxes in a box around those. Then the reavers in a box outside of that and the basilisks on the very farthest out points of the box for early attack warning. The galaxy should fly above the AMS.

This formation works because the prowlers can shoot over the lightnings and sunderers and the lightinings and sunderers can shoot over the maxes. This allows your units to throw the maximum possible firepower at the enemy while protecting the units that are most vulnerable to infantry. It also provides for easy formation maintenance, which is essential to maintaining the formation when the chaos of battel breaks out. A scattered formation will break up more easily if it is flanked because there is more confusion amoung your ranks. The box formation is easy to maintain and thus a more stable formation.


I've already suggested that, that formation will be used while escorting the sunderers to the drop point. When they get within range of the enemy gun emplacements the sunderers and MAXs will fall behind and the tanks and reavers will plow straight ahead into the courtyard where they will kill the oposition and allow the sunderers to deploy there troops close to a door.

[Ginzue]

sounds good :thumbsup:
The 2 sunderers could have some of their Reinforced inf certed in med like you said, good idea.

[Terik]

By the way, complex formations like this are really going to be hard to organize without some kind of "moving" waypoint that follows the group leader around.

[Ginzue]

Ya I was thinking of having a reaver over each of the 3 parts so they would follow it.

[Cyanide]

The way you teach people to get into these formations is to show them all the formation you want. Lable each position with a letter and number ( like P1 for prowler position number1 ) and then assign each tank, max, reaver, etc to a label. They will all fall into their appropriate positions based apon what is around their assigned position.

It works the same way as having a bunch of kids get into position on a set of bleachers or something. They will eventually all end up in the right place because they know who was next to them and the people next to them know who was next to them.

[mr_luc]

This kind of formation-making is really only useful for very macro situations. In fact, that is why formations were invented -- it doesn't take much brains, and when you're dealing with high enough concentrations of combatants, primarily without area-of-effect weaponry, they are especially useful.

However, despite the great scale of Planetside, we're still talking primarily about skirmishing here. The added mobility of vehicles means that there will rarely be much use for fixed formations -- mobile, flexible groups that adapt to the needs of the moment are what will work the best.

Formations just do not work in wide-open combat. Look at the Romans vs. everyone else -- the Romans perfected macro infantry tactics in their day, and they won almost all pitched battles they fought. However, in convention-defying guerilla warfare, the Romans suffered heavy losses, particularly in wooded areas and when facing less organized, but highly skilled fighters who could draw them out of line formation.

Well, Planetside is that kind of a battlefield -- but more so. A cluster of people on the ground is a bombing target. A cluster of vehicles in the air are juicy, ripe fruit waiting to be plucked out of the sky by a volley of rockets.

In EXTREME pitched battle, there will be a place for macro tactics like the ones you are describing. I think that more realistically, squad tactics will just evolve, as we saw them evolve in Tribes, and certain strategies and tactics will become Law to the point where we can draw up those types of battle plans, but with a better idea of what works -- without even needing detailed diagrams, except maybe to bring new recruits up to speed.

I think the big thing will be to clearly define roles -- some roles are just plain going to be more useful than others, and in a game as open-ended as this, you are going to want to be able to pinpoint someone's role and then make up groups according to what is available. As soon as the game gets enough playtime, those kinds of roles are going to be more well defined, and it is going to make the tactical side of the game much more natural and less difficult.

[Saethan]

Well, as you're moving forward in that formation, I'll be hiding behind a wall shooting phoenix's up and over and picking off random armored units here and there. After all, since you're all moving in formation, I know exactly which direction everybody's going. :cool:

[Ginzue]

I think I explaned that wrong, thies formations are not for battle, they are just to show who is in what squad. Once we start moving people will just go into their squads and go to the waypoint closing on diffrent sides of the objective. I am going to call things like, S1 snowman west attack!, meaning the first squad in the snowman will attack around the west.

[1024]

All of these strategies could be reduced to a heap of junk with a littel bit of of gool ol' carpet bombing.

[Ruthless]

CARPET BOMBING VS. INFANTRY = teh sux

[Terik]

Originally posted by SpikeSpiegel
All of these strategies could be reduced to a heap of junk with a littel bit of of gool ol' carpet bombing.

Thats what the reavers are for Spike. :D

(err, for preventing them from carpet bombing just incase you mis interpret this)

[Ghoran Skarr]

You cant leave the AMS in the back you gotta get something to protect it or they the enemy can come up behind you and take it out. A couple of Mosquitoes could come behind undetected and take it out before youre reavers can react to the attack.

To take that out i would use six mosquitoes and come frome a strafing ron from behind. All mosquitoes in single file line come from hogh in the sky and behind take their shot and get gostraight towards the reaver group from behind. As they approach the reavers the reavers will make a turn to try and get behind them and thus giving the mosquitoes the chance to just go straight forwards and continue to strafe before the reavers can catych up to them again.

[Zylos]

im just gonna say this: if you have that many people, dont even bother with formations, just seige there base! its not gonna matter what formation your gonna have when your launching bullets/shells/rockets at a base with 60 people, everything will be decimated!