Mr.Vicchio's TOP 10 things WRONG with PS, and Sporks reply.

[MrVicchio]

Author Topic: What is currently "wrong" with PS gameplay
MrVicchio
Station Member
Registered: Nov 2002

posted 04-15-2003 04:23 AM user search report post
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1. I think, after a few days with the Beta, I found the first issue, solo play can be very dull. Going out just by yourself just... it gets boring, atleast for me. Course, when you only have an hour at best... its kinda fun to working on a certain area.. like flying skillz.
2. Grief Point System... oh wait, thast being worked on as we speak.... Hope they make it so if you hit a bad guy, and a good guy with the same shot/volley you don't incur GP....

3. The solo hacker taking that base back.. agian.... oh that too is being worked on... hmmm... good.

4. CEP is way slow to gain... nm, that too is being worked on....

5. No artillary or bombers! That is a legitimate complaint I have. I would like to see that in game.

6. Reaver gun sights... Can you move em a bit closer to gether? PLEASE? I have to get WAY too close to hose down infintry, and when you are flying against NC thats just suicide....

7. Pheonix Missiles... uhm... thats a bit unbalancing to give them a human guided missile... cmon, thats a bit over powered yes?

8. HART timer is WAY too long, but thats just me....

9. Instant Action, kinda screwy sometimes... you go to a continent that has like one little battle, not what you were looking for, so you hit again, and end up in teh same respawn tube... thats just annoying.

10. People. People do STUPID things. I watched a guy drop and crash his galaxy loaded with people into 3 Galaxies on the ground last night in sanctuary, and its AMAZING how many vehicle induced deaths scroll across your screen while you are there... Can we get a people free version of the game? Thanks.

Wow, unexpected, but cool!

SporkfirePS
Station Admin
Registered: Jan 2003 posted 04-15-2003 11:47 AM user search report post
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quote:
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1. I think, after a few days with the Beta, I found the first issue, solo play can be very dull. Going out just by yourself just... it gets boring, atleast for me. Course, when you only have an hour at best... its kinda fun to working on a certain area.. like flying skillz.
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The lone-wolf experience is a difficult one to address because people go solo for more than one reason, whether to try and subtly cap unguarded bases or to just participate in the action however they want without having to be managed by a commander. What would you like to do as a loner? What could be improved.

Items 2-7 are all under review. I'll hold off comment until the systems that address these are in place.


quote:
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8. HART timer is WAY too long, but thats just me....
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This is a difficult balance to find. We want to keep HART shuttles and warpgates equally useful without making one overwhelmingly dominant. This is an item that the team is continuing to spend time on.


quote:
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9. Instant Action, kinda screwy sometimes... you go to a continent that has like one little battle, not what you were looking for, so you hit again, and end up in teh same respawn tube... thats just annoying.
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The system behind Instant Action is still being tweaked to put greater consideration on the weight of the battle. It's not enough that battles have occurred there. It will be more important to also consider how heavy the combat is before selecting an Instant Action drop site.


quote:
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10. People. People do STUPID things. I watched a guy drop and crash his galaxy loaded with people into 3 Galaxies on the ground last night in sanctuary, and its AMAZING how many vehicle induced deaths scroll across your screen while you are there... Can we get a people free version of the game? Thanks.
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It's a constant struggle, particularly in MMO's to have to deal with the mistakes of others. The possible range of inconveniences that others can cause is pretty vast. If there are any particulars you'd like to share (Galaxy crash noted), go ahead and spell them out for us. Keep in mind that many of the Grief-related scenarios will be addressed along with the entire Grief system.

Victor Wachter
Community Relations Representative
Many questions can be answered by reading the PlanetSide Game Info and FAQ

http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/planetside/Forum2/HTML/005934.html

[Metroid]

I honestly hope they dont' change the grief system too much. I actually disagree with the popular idea of, "If you hit a baddie, goodies dont take damage". It encourages grenade/AE spamming. Your SUPPOSED to watch where your firing, not fire blindly. Also I think HART drops are just right at 15 minutes. About the same travel time as a gal to a 2 continent base without the organization.

[Viva]

As in real life you need to be aware of who is around you. I hate dying cause someone wasn't paying attention or just goes off spraying gun fire hoping to take out his/her target.

[Strygun]

Originally posted by Metroid
I honestly hope they dont' change the grief system too much. I actually disagree with the popular idea of, "If you hit a baddie, goodies dont take damage". It encourages grenade/AE spamming. Your SUPPOSED to watch where your firing, not fire blindly. Also I think HART drops are just right at 15 minutes. About the same travel time as a gal to a 2 continent base without the organization.

Well yeah, but there's always the guy who thinks it's funny to run infront of your fire and give you a weap lock...

[MrVicchio]

See Number 10 on my list.

I agree psrtially with what you say, but I have TOO many instances of IDIOTS running into my fire to get a knife kill to be 1337 to make me have any faith that most gamres have any brain power.

[Metroid]

Originally posted by Shogun
Well yeah, but there's always the guy who thinks it's funny to run infront of your fire and give you a weap lock...

Then stop firing. The game doesn't MAKE you fire. I'm BR14/CR2 and I've yet to pass 200 grief during any of the grief resets, and I almost always get the majority of that from people RAMMING into *MY* galaxy and dieing, therefor giving ME the grief.

[MrVicchio]

Some times ther is nothing you can do. You have been blessed to not run into these IDITOS, or you hold your fire alot, either way, they are out there, and they are stupid people.

[Metroid]

I'm afraid I don't understand. Your pulling the trigger. How is tehre nothing you can do? I understand an idiot can run infront of your fire, but even fi you KILL said idiot, you wont get 1000+ grief points from it. WHich means you've done more then just hit morons who run in your path.

[Masurao]

Well if ya say the pheonix should go then so should the cycler(mini-chaingun) and the lasher. I have seen both of those doing insain amounts of damage to others. Now the NC has some powerful stuff, but nothing quite like that. So in my point of view the Pheonix Missiles as the NCs version of a supper weapon, like the Cycler and the lasher...or it could be the lancer, one of those.

:D

[MrVicchio]

Metriod, not all of us are blessed with your aiming 1337ness.

Some of us go get into the thick of Tower fights, and there is NO WAY you can NOT get a few GP.

Some of us Fly Reavers, and if you are gonna play CAS role, then you WILL get GP... either from Rockets, or the odd gun GP.. I did that twice tonight, and NO clue how....

[SolAngelus]

one thing I'd like to see is a Parachute system sort of like in BF1942, then again that may also increase the galaxy crashing carnage when people can simply bail out, but what the devs could try is track the vehicle that was just bailed out of if it hits a afriendly unit then throw them some grief points.

[mistled]

I agree totally about griefing while trying to take towers. I was in a battle tonight with a couple of dozen people on each side of the fight, fighting over a single tower. Which means that we were basically fighting over a set of stairs. Anyone who has played other games with me knows that I hold my fire a lot, and that ff is a personal pet peeve of mine (unless we're just goofing around, then I don't care). But when you are on a stariwell with ten other people, including a couple of maxes, you are going to hit friendlies that want to strafe aross the stairs all the time. If I'm firing my gun and my teammate is only three feet away on my left, I'm going to hit him if he suddenly decides to run to his right. I don't get nearly the grief points that others do from things like this, but you can't place all of the fault on the guy shooting the gun. If you jump out in front of a car in real life, I'm not doing to blame the driver because he was the one pressing the gas.

In such situations, all you can do to not get grief is to not shoot. For example, today a guy in my empire decided to do nothing but strafe left to right across a hallway while we were fighting. I couldn't get a clean shot off because the hallway was narrow, so I didn't fire. After a minute, the guy was finally killed, and I opened up and killed our enemy. Either I could have shot him with ff, or he died because I didn't fire. Either way, in the end, I'm the only one left standing. People are idiots. That's all there is to it.

[cell.nerve]

When i used the lasher as vanu, it friggin shocked my own people, i got locked down like 10x from a range of 5 minutes to 30 minutes. I didnt hit the people with the actual ball, was just the shock, and thats being fixed - BUT they are workin on the grief system, i personally think it should decay when your offline too, or decay alot faster overall, its like 1 grief point every 10 mins (i dont really know but thats what it seems like) and you get 10-100 grief for hitting someone depending on damage, so thats pretty retarded, even the devs dont like the grief system

[LesserShade]

Yes, anybody that has ever tried to take a tower and actually participated in the battle has racked up grief. If you claim otherwise you are a damn dirty liar.

I don't have a problem with the way you get grief. The problem is how slow the grief goes away. Funny though, the other day my friend got weapon lock and we started talking about the grief system, and I mentioned that the grief system would be a whole lot better if it was just left the same but the grief decreased 10 times faster. An hour later the devs said that they changed the grief system to erase grief at a rate 10x that of before. I totally called it :/

[LesserShade]

As far as the hart goes, i know it sucks to wait 15 minutes sometimes, but when they had the timer set at 1 minutes, people NEVER used warpgates, and that was when a warpgate would take you whatever continent's warpgate that you wanted to go to. Even when you were on a continent people would recall to the sanctuary just to hop on a HART and drop back on to the same continent because it was easier than getting a vehicle and driving.

[cell.nerve]

I like the hart, makes that chaotic vehicle craze in the sancs with all the galaxies, makes it feel realistic like ur going to battle and makes the game more based on teamwork than random drops

[Metroid]

Ugh.. the stairwell excuse DOES NOT WORK. Why? Because your opponent has the same limitation. So you want to file hundreds of people into a tower with no penalty? Sorry doesn't work that way. That's the whole bloody point of the system. If your gonna hit your own guys becuase they fill the stairwell, then DONT SHOOT! If your opponent is doing the exact same thing, then they are getting grief for shooting their own guys too.. If you outnumber them 4 to 1, let your forward troops fire till they die then move down, you can still swarm and crush while your opponent reloads. I participate in tower battels all the time, and the only GP I ever get is from firing on turrets and the tower being captured right before my damn missiles hit the turret, bam instant grief. I even spam doorway swith Reaver rockets.. I JUST DONT FIRE WHEN FRIENDLIES ARE ENTERING THE BUILDING! >_<

[MrVicchio]

You Metriod, have never tried to take a tower with 10-15 enemies spawning in it... how can you take the tower without shooting? That made NO SENSE WHATSO EVER.

[mistled]

And if there is ever a time when there are not friendlies around the doors, then you are talking about a whole different scope of battle than I am.

[Metroid]

No offense Big V, but how can you possibly work for PSU? You don't even read full posts.

And yes, actually, last night my squad + 2 other squads fought terrans at a tower. Well over 15 Terrans were swarming the tower, 3 max's on the roof + occupied turrets. My squad provided MAX/Reaver support, and ultimately got the hack, the other squads bombarded the top/doors to keep them from getting out. Once we made sure the MAX's couldn't get their armor again (killed/reequiped/cameoutside/killed) we charged in, max's first. Most of the max's died, but 2 of us threw grenades down using the 3 second bounce, hit the wall and buonced down farther, kept pushing our way down with forward troops (the rear didn't stupidly fire at the front). As far as I know, out of 3 squads only 2 people got grief from it, two maxes who were firnig at the turrets when the tower turned. ONe in my squad. It was a brilliantly fun battle.

It's a simple matter. Don't fire AE weapons by your allies. Don't fire weaopns you can't aim. Don't fire if you think your allies are gonna charge infront of you. Let them fire, die, and you fire. Either way your opponent is expending ammo, unless of course he's a max, in which case you should have anti vehicle anyways, especially with the new patch!

And btw.. they didn't implament the "hit a enemy/dont hit a friendly' in today's patch. Does it mean they wont? Nah.. but this is the major overhaul of the grief system, so it only stands to reason the likelyness is slim to none.

If your in a tower hallway, especially one where your opponent is SPAWNING, this means they are limited to the same area as you. A tower hall. Even if they wait in the basemetn, they are limited by the width of the hall. As a matter of fact, people in the basement are more likely to hit allies then people at the top of the stairwell. While I think AE fire hitting the backwall may be an issue (lashers) which would be a way to hti opponents and not hit allies, all sides have ways of diong this so it balances out.

I apologize for being the lone voice in the thread, but I'm really not. Many, many people have no issues with the grief system. An organized squad will always beat an unorganized-firewhileyoucan-squad. Yes, I realize you can't control your teammates, which is why you let THEM go in FIRST, die horrible painful deaths to the enemy flood, and you rush in next while the enemy is reloading. I've seen it work so many times it's silly.

[AmbientOSX]

New megapatch calls for moving the control console to the 3rd or 4th floor of towers...

[Scout]

It's Scout yo. I been playin since i got accepted and i dont know why ya complainin bout all dat stuff =\ ...hehehe get some skillz like me i fookin own.
[J/k bout gettin skillz thing :P, i still own at this game tho =) ]

Ya man all i need is a cycler to own everything...tho that anti vehicle striker helps some....
<---combat engineer
<---adv hacker
<---cycler ownz all
nuff said

vich 6 of us took 2 complex's in like half an hour the other night booyah!!! ownd da VS peeps

TR 4 lyfe

(o ya and w/ the 10 other points ill eventually have i plan on gettin basilisk or somethin for me to places fast and scout or go 2 man team..never underestimate the power of the harasser that thing ownz infantry....um probably anti-vehicular or snipin even tho sniper doesnt help me much..i just go cycler w/ zoom implant....and last 4 i go reaver or mosquito..no need for health if i can hack equip term and get health packs)

[Scout]

since ive been playing for like a week and a half b4 open beta cuz i got into closed thats prob why i not havin as many problems

edit:(ahhh one last thing vich ill be lookin for ya on the battlefield i play under names : Scout, Vaurcyn, Afilgalia...dont ask they are from other games.)Mainly afil will be my main ill be lookin to own you :D

[Shryn]

I'm don't feel like I have a whole lot of opinion on this topic, but for the sake of perspective I guess I should post. I've only been playing for a week and a day, and I very seldom have an organized squad for reasons that aren't relevant to the grief system. Usually I'm just helping other squads and if I get invited into it for a while when we're working on the same thing that's cool. Point is I'm not bein an especially organized fellow in this. I fly a reavor so my armor sucks. I had a repair cert till this last wipe, and carry the repair rifle in my one rifle slot (to repair my reaver! :)) and I have my rek in my 2nd pistol slot. So when I'm stuck on the ground and needing to slay my way into or out of a tower I generally stick to grenades, frags against inf and plasma against maxxes. I have enough room in my inventore for about 8 grenades because I don't need to carry a lot of ammo for my useless weapons. :) Point is, I lob these grenades around, and if I have a supressor I'll shot that, and almost every time I throw a grenade I get grief. Now that you've probably determined that I'm a TK'ing bastard who you'd really like to avoid meeting on the battlefield, I can cut to the chase:

I've never ever had a weapon lock or even a warning due to griefing. I can't imagine makeing the system any easier on people.

In game I'm Aramis, and handyer to have around than it might seem like in this post. :)

[Destroyeron]

I swear I wasn't the one that crashed the Galaxy.

[Revolver]

About the Phoenix, you probably haven't used it. The thing is so sluggish it takes about 100m to turn 90deg. The Striker is alot better IMO (I play NC (Dalton), TR (Johari), and VS (Markov) btw). The Lancer is the Best AV/AA Weapon I think. Direct fire rulz.

[BlueKnight]

Gee scout your l337. /sigh

Anyway, the Greif system does need work. Everyone knows this. If you think otherwise then it is mostly because you don't like change. Ever fired at an anamy running around in your base, missed him, and hit some peice of base equipment? No, well either you need to find your trigger or you are a better shot then I.

I have yeet to get a weapons lock. But when I am standing there, some enemy is shooting at me and some twit jumps in front of me so I can't fire back, should I stand there and wait for him to die while I am taking AE damage? Or do I say screw it and let him die with the enemy. Why should I have to pay for some twits mistakes?

Friendly fire may be realistic, but look at how many CS servers keep it off. If you have ever run a CS server you would know why. It is a PAIN to make it so that the people who know how to play with FF can coexist with those that don't.

Tower battles as a ton of fun when you have lots of people pouring into them. But if you have a MAX/AV do you just stand at spawn because you can't shoot without causing AE damage to friendlies? Chances are you will have a tank outside the tower doing AE damage to most people inside and you can't even see him let alone fire at him. Personally I think the fix is rather simple. It will not be fool proof, but just get rid of none line of sight AE. You won't get greif points from what you can't see, and you won't have people dying without a chance of even defending themselves.

[BUGGER]

Bringing back the grief system, how about lag. Someone is gona lag and run into you, or your gona run into them. Yes you may see then walking into your path, but when you let go of the trigger, it'll take a quike second for te gun to stop shoveling out ammo, which makes a problem. I'm not taking sides, but lag is an issue and will pop up form time to time making you turn too fast or shoot when you stopped shooting a few seconds ago.

But then watch for your teammates, its actually a good thing i say cuase if he steps between you and the enemy, he servers you as a personal shield. It also gives you time for the cursors to close in more and possible to reload. So use the interference of your teammate as an advantage.

[NoSurrender]

Its so hard Being a TR AV max (the nade launcher) when u try 2 go in and shoot nades ppl always run in front of me it is possibly the most aggrivating thing i got 74 grief pnts in one night

[BurninSun]

Why not just mirror the grief points? I'm greifing you by shooting you, you're greifing me by standing in front of my bullet. You still have to be careful of ae'ing friendlies but at least the n00bs that don't pay attention or cut you off on purpose will get GP's too.

[BlueKnight]

BurninSun, that is not too bad an idea except that when someone wants to be a jerk they don't even need to jump in front of you anymore. Instead they just shoot you. You take damage AND you get greif points. They would only get greif points. Ack!

I have still never experianced a weapons lock but I know people who have. And in all cases that I am aware of it was not due to any intentional action. Lets face it, friendly fire just plane SUCKS if you want to have servers with manners.

[Chanfan]

I haven't had too much of a problem with the grief system, and I play a TR Anti-inf MAX, which can rack up a lot of grief with those grenade launchers if they are not careful.

Personally, I love having to watch out for friendly fire. Sure, many CS (or insert other FPS here) servers have it off. But, if all of them had it on, folks would learn how to deal with it quick enough. Such is the case with PS - FF is always on, on all servers. Given that lots of people seem to be moaning about how boring things get quickly, you would think they would want the extra complexity of having to learn to deal with friendly fire.

The grief system certainly has bugs (vehicle ramming comes to mind). Some things would be nice to tweak (perhaps no grief for a few seconds after capture for shooting a base item). But it's working well enough for me in it's current state.

I do get the impression that some folks are worried that they get grief points at all, ever. Friendly fire does happen, and getting some grief points is normal. Sometimes folks do step in front of you, or your splash damage will get some friendlys. The grief system is working fine. It's only broken if that happens so often that you are getting penalties (like weapons lock), and you are honestly doing at least an average job of checking your fire.

[BlueKnight]

Hmm. Wouldn't it be interesting to see them create a NO FF server? I wonder which would stay more full. I think the real issue is that although most of us (I think) don't run into major problems with penalties, we are being forced to play in a style other then that which we enjoy most. This isn't about realism, and it isn't about meeting some programmers concept. This IS about making it fun for the most people so Sony can soak up our hard earned cash on a monthly basis. If FF is enjoyed by the majority, then so be it. But EVERY FF game I have EVER played has always ended the same way ... that being, a bunch of ass holes running around causing trouble for everyone who is there trying to have legit fun.

[RiversCuomo]

aren't you always the first to whip out your "knife" during cs games, vicchio? :p

no but seriously i wanna stop the lamers who take off with a galaxy only to ram somebody or crash, killing everybody aboard.. and mofos who shoot you cause you're invisible... which happens to me for some odd reason...