How to add a Bomber/artillary track into the game.

[MrVicchio]

I understand that this isn't a pressing issue, but after launch and all, I would like to see some sort of bomber and artillary unit added to the game. But, such a unit could be a tad over powered.. why not making a two man affair. One in the air, one on the ground.


Ground guy goes up to the Aircraft/Artillary track and grabs a laser sight from it, or better, just make it a peicce of equipment. You MUST be in a squad to use this, better an outfit but hey...

Now, the ground guy has to "paint" the target with the laser rifle. It does ZERO damage, and the guy is basically lacked in position until the bomb/shell hits. The guy in the aircraft/artillary track gets a little light, beep something to inform him that the target is painted, and ONLY then can he fire his weapon.

This could be a VERY good weapon IF used right. It would promote Team work, and add another element of tactical thought to the game.

thoughts?

[xuur]

they have something similar to that in tribes. everyone gets the targetting laser...yet so few folks use it as its based on targeting squad fire instead of artillery or bombers.

when used and used correctly, it was pretty darn effective. I would love to see something along those lines in PS for artillery barrages and other airstrikes.

I can also unfortunately see it as one of the worst (best?) ways of getting yourself griefed right out of a fight. I've seen an awful lot of folks in bf1942 try to use it and call artillery right in on themselves and their team. It should require a pretty high rating I would think in both command and combat ranks.

mi dos centavos

[Cyanide]

There is a similar idea in place in Tribes2. One person carries a targeting laser which displays a point on the other players hud where they should point their weapon in order to hit the painted target. Works very well for mortar type weapons and such. I think it would be a good idea for an artillery weapon. The balance issues can always be worked out when they decide on the blast radius and damage of said weapon. People have pre concieved notions of how powerfull a bomb should be and they imprint that onto a game for some reason. This is a fantasy world in planetside. There is nothing that says how powerful anything should be, and therefore nothing to dictate how it will affect game balance.

[LesserShade]

I wouldn't mind a two man bomber aircraft, empire specific or otherwise. Maybe they could be larger to the point that they are only available at drop ship facilites on each continent, or at the sanc.

[The President]

Yeah I concur Vic, I've had discussions with a few PS guys and they always worry about it getting out of hand. Thus why I believe it shoudl take skill and a rank for one to be capable of using the weapon. As you said that would add a new tactical genre to the game. Hell, since the early wars in real life there were artillery pieces, if done correctly it wouldnt be such a disadvantage,im not saying I want a nuke cannon but an artillery piece would be a great addition. Good post man.

-The President:sniper:

[LesserShade]

I'm kinda interested/worried about that CR 4 orbital strike ability

[orogogus]

I've been wanting a laser-target designator for aircraft/artillery fire for a long time... the question is how to balance it properly and would it get out of hand (like phoenix missles currently are IMO).

[The President]

Yeah deffinetly, I doubt the Devs would put in a weapon with a massive area of damage but who knows. Someone said it was really hard to get to that rank so at least we'll have some time before the airraids begin. I hope its more of a precise weapon and less of a huge concussion burst.

-The President:sniper:

[1024]

I htink this would be a good idea, except for the fact that the person gets locked in alce when they're painted, i htink that kinda is lesserkill(as opposed to overkill)

[GGMajic]

as lessershade said, you get an orbital bombardment ability at CR4. Thia uses the command upling tool to paint a target *i think* and call down a barrage.

They planned to have it on a long timer so you didn't get barrages every 10 seconds.

If it's too powerful, maybe it could be an ion weapon that works like a jammer grenade, only on a larger scale. This could knock out all turrets, MAXes and vehicles in the vicinity, but not kill anyone. Thus an advantage, but it could still be defended against.

[BUGGER]

If artilery on the ground, would it be stationary or able to move and plant its self? Well then how would they look like? for TR a big hull with a big cannon? for NC a smaller vanguard but with a bigger cannon? for vanu justa satalite?


And if ya gota bomber, just make it like a flying fortress high bomber, planetside style!:D Like a crew of 9 or sumtin: pilot, bomber/bubble gunner, nose gunner, rear gunner, bubble gunner, 2 top gunner (waterver its called), 2 side gunners. A flying fortress.;)

[MrVulcan]

I think that a bomber that moves very slow, and has no other weapons other than a bomb, and is 2 man (1 fly, 1 bomb) would work great. It would require complete air supremicy as it could be shot down with ease w/o being able to fight off the other air vechs, and be very vunerable to AA weapons due to its low speed, etc.
The TR could have a light dmg carpet bombing one, the NC a single heavy bomb, and the VS... like a no radar or faster one, like a light bomber or something.....
Thus just as the large vechs and inf suits(max) are empire specific, this would allow there to be empire specific air as well.

[The President]

In regards to the artillery piece I think it most deffinetly should be mobile, slow, but mobile none the less. I dont want naything absurdly powerful but strong none the less. Ideas on Empire-Based artillery pieces is open to discusion.
Secondly, the high altitude bomber, how would it be shot down, how powerful would its payload be, what ordinances would it drop?

-The President:sniper:

[MrVulcan]

well, to add to my last post, it bombers would have to have a cone of fire that depended on how high up they were, and ax max alt they would have a huge cone, and at low alt, a very small cone. Also, its max alt could not be above the lvl of AA fire, or if it was, then at that point it would have to have a huge cone of fire, and still it could be shot down very easily from other air (mos and reaver)

[BUGGER]

With artilery is should be splash damage, it cant kill a player or vehicle with one hit but it could destroy a base turret with one hit. And ofcourse slow mobility.

Bomber should be powerful, as powerful as artilery, but as in the air, its up to the gunners to keep the bomber safe. OF course there will always be some kind of air force the enemy should have. But then also if the enmy should not pervale, the bombr doesn't have infant bombs, or 100 bombs (unless they ae really small). At the most 30, and ya mus reload at home if ya ever want to drop bombs again.....or you could let the bomber fall and go build a new one....:) :p

[Destroyeron]

I would like to see a 2 man bomber team.

[Cyanide]

I think a good way to balance these types of things would be as follows.

For the targeting laser itself:
1) It is only carried by reinforced armor.
2) The targeting player can not fire any other weapons while using the targeting laser.
3) The beam of the laser is colored to match the empire and is highly visible. This way once you paint a target the enemy knows where you are. But since it's a reinforced armor they have a chance to last a reasonable amount of time (as in a sniper doesn't own them in 1 shot 2 seconds after painting the target).

The bomber:
1) Basically a galaxy except without the guns and with lower hitpoints. This would make it require an escort to hit the target which means more coordination between team members is needed.
2) Two types of bombs chosable by the bombbadeir. EMP which would knock out vehicles and maxes in the area for some amount of time. Another anti-infantry bomb that on impact scatters into several small fragmentation gernades. Dealing large damage (not nessacerily leathal to reinforced armor, but it would hurt them bad enough to make them easy for allies to kill) to lighter infantry but minimal damage to MAXes and vehicles.
3) Only fires if a lock on the painted target is maintained by the bombadier.
4) Only one bomb run per flight. So the bomber has to be rearmed before making another strike.

The artilery:
1) A slow moving tracked vehicle that requires a 2 man crew (pilot, gunner).
2) The gunner can only fire the gun when he has a lock on a painted target. This does not require direct LOS, so you can fire over small hills.
3) The vehicle must deploy bracing legs before it can fire and must retract them before it can move (like those giant construction cranes do). This makes it almost defenseless if unescorted.
4) The shells the gun fires have a tracer on them so the enemy knows where they are coming from even if the gun is over a hill.
6) The gunner can select from anti-infantry, or EMP as with the bomber, but each shell is considerably less powerful than each bomb.
7) The reload (or cooldown) time between shots is considerably long so that more than one of these vehicles is required to maintain an effective barage.

Misc:
Both targeting weapons require a couple seconds to lock on. This way, a skilled targeter may be able to move around while still keeping the laser pointed in one place long enough for a lock to be aquired, but it would be very difficult to do in the heat of battle.


I think that would make the weapons pretty well balanced. They could always be negated by killing the reinforced that's carrying the targeting laser and the vehicles delivering the weapons are very vulnerable without a signifigant escort that could otherwise be directly involved in the battle.

[Vis Armata]

I don't know about artillery pieces, but bombers would be welcome. Here's my thoughts on bombers:

-If there are different bomb types, they have to be loaded before takeoff.
-Bombers only spawn at Sanctuary, not on continents. Calls for more planning and teamwork, if the bomber has to originate from the home continent.
-Commanders have access to bomber data, and can call in priority targets, which give slightly more BEP.
-Bombers can only land at Air Towers or bases with air pads, no landing at the ground. Harder to integrate into mobile forces, so that planning and teamwork are used to plan a bomb strike.
-Crew: 2 to 3 (pilot, bombadier, secondary gunner)
-Bombs and secondary weapns should reflect empire philosophies (like what Mr.Vulcan said).
-Bombers should look cool - no refitted Galaxies.

[MrVulcan]

I think that bombers should spawn at all places Galaxies do, so that the Galaxy pts are now heavy air pts or something.

And yes, they need new models compeltely, some sweet ones, like wings, or the double body look, etc (diff for each empire)

but I think that they should be able to land anywhere, though that would give a good plus to the air towers now though, but that plus the limited spawn would hurt their use too much, since they would prob be 3-4 certs to use.

[Hamma]

Artillery of any form in PS is bad news.

Nothing worse than running along and having a shell land on you, but you have no idea where it came from? lol. This was meant to be fun.

As for bombers, definatly like to see one of those added in :)

[Flameseeker]

Scrap Artillery, keep the bomber. Here's my idea.

Bomber must fly in low, and acquire a laser-guided lock on the target. The pilot would have to keep the laser on the target, as it would point slightly downward but mostly forward. IE: A bombing run. This lock would have to be achieved for 6-8 seconds.
The gunner would be responsible for timing the bomb drop. Allow a 2-3 second "Fire" period. This would not be prompted, a display would have to show it, with a slight wait before deployment. IE: Hatches opening.
If the bomb fires correctly, it's like a frag or a jammer over a much bigger area.
If it misfires, due to a crappy gunner, or the pilot loses the "paint", the bomb explodes in the plane. Not destroying it, but making it take at least 75% damage. 1 bomb per plane, miss, and you're screwed.

[BUGGER]

All is good but the bomb exploding inside bomber, instead the bomb should just roll few meters like in the movie Pearl Harbor. Then delay by 5-10 seconds giving the enemy little time to hack it (hacking would take about 1 second) and/or blow it up (the expolsion would be near quatr the full explosion).

[Cyanide]

Originally posted by Hamma
Artillery of any form in PS is bad news.

Nothing worse than running along and having a shell land on you, but you have no idea where it came from? lol. This was meant to be fun.

As for bombers, definatly like to see one of those added in :)

It's not like you can't go back and find the artillery tank. Not to mention if you're traveling all by yourself and nobody else is there to see where the shell came from you're not playing the game right anyway. I don't think he bomber is any worse than artillery for the game as far as balance though

BTW, 6-8 seconds for a lock? Did you actually watch a clock to see how long that is? 6-8 seconds in an FPS is like eternity. 3 seconds is more reasonable IMO.

[Hamma]

Games are supposed to be about fun. Running around looking for some artillery tank hiding somewhere = not fun

dying without knowing how = not fun

[Headrattle]

Replace the Artillery with a slow tomohawk type weapon. Keep the laser guidance. It takes up a rifle slot. Only four missiles in it until it must be reloaded. Make the Missile slow, big and noisy so it can be shot down. (a little slower then a skeeter. Same speed as a Reaver maybe?)
Make it where it needs teamwork.

Here is the action.
The Missile truck is spawned and you need a techplant to spawn it. It has no defenses, and it is as slow as an AMS. So it needs an Escort. It gets into position.
The spotter runs out there, he can't be invisible because the laser tagger is in a rifle slot.
He has a few guys escorting him.
He signals to the Missile truck to fire.
The Missile goes straight up into the air untill it can "see" the laser and then it turns toward the laser and looses altitude fast so it can get about 100 feet above the ground.
All this time the spotter must keep it on target, he can move the laser and the missile will still follow it, but if it gets pointed at the sky or otherwise loses "sight" of it, then the Missile will just go straight untill it hits something or it "sees" the laser again.
It is loud, and it is destructive.
It mainly does damage to infantry, but it does a little damage to vehicles. With MUCH less damage to tanks.
The Reload time would be long. Maybe 20 to 30 seconds.

It's main use would be to soften up the targets. The enemy can still take shelter OR shoot it down because it is the same speed as a reaver. AA weapons would work on it but it the MAX doesn't wack it, it most likely kills the Max (or severly damages it.) The blast radius would be pretty large, with less damage farther from the center of course.

Why?
If the attacking team uses teamwork they can deal a severe blow to the enemy. And weaken the defenses to the point that the main fight will be inside as long as the attackers finish off the vehicles. The defending team can kill the spotter or shoot it down if they have teamwork. Whoever has the best team will win. Also, if the defenders communicate well they can see and hear it coming, and give out some warning if they are ready for it.

Grand scale ideas.
You would need a Tech Plant to make it.
Phalanxes with the Interlink facility would be able to shoot it down.
This makes some bases more important.


not a big fan of a Bomber, more of a gunship fan. HC130 type thing. Lots of guns sticking out of the sides but as slow as a galaxy.

[MrVulcan]

Originally posted by Hamma
Games are supposed to be about fun. Running around looking for some artillery tank hiding somewhere = not fun

dying without knowing how = not fun

but looking up and seeing 50 bombers going right twards you, and realizing that your entire squad is AA max = Very Fun :p

[Duffman]

i like the idea of the bomber. they dont have to fly low just not out of aa range.

Needs a laser pointer person on ground to aim bombs down. If tracker is killed the bomb blows up.

Laser can be seen from far away but can also reach lond distances.

He cant be cloaked or Max.

The bomber can only hold like 4 bombs (1 bomb would make it dumb becasue if the thing flew really slow then they would have to make the bomb really strong or no one would use the bomber becasue it would be unpractible)

Bombers could be spawned at same places as galaxies and only land on airpads.

Bombers are jsut as fast as galaxies and have same or worse handleing.

3-4 person crew. Pilot - Bomber - Gunner(1 or 2)

Bomber and pilot both need certs for there repsectable job.

Targeting person takes greif points.

Bomber has to lock onto target for like 3 seconds.

10-20 second delay betwwen each bomb.

[Cyanide]

Originally posted by Hamma
Games are supposed to be about fun. Running around looking for some artillery tank hiding somewhere = not fun

dying without knowing how = not fun

First of all, most artillery shells make a noise when they're falling. Second, I wan't aware that as soon as you die your game screen switches away and there is no death animation. Do you just sit there with a black screen if you're waiting for an advanced med to revive you? Third, if the only thing that could kill you without you knowing what it was is an artillery shell landing right on you, one should be able to use ones amazing brain power to deduce that it was an artilery shell which killed them.

Four, going back to where you were killed in a reaver and blowing the hell out of the artillery gun which probably spent a looonng time to get into that position = FUN.

BTW, if you don't see the dude pointing the big bright targeting laser at your position you're blind. You're also stupid for not running away from laser because it has to achive a lock before firing and once it is fired the shell is not guided by the laser.

[MrVulcan]

I do not like the laser idea at all, 2 people in the thing is enough, you do not want to spend 3-4 certs just to not be able to use it half the time, since no one will spot for you, etc.
Stuff can not be based upon outside influance like that, I think that a nice verying size zone of fire from altitude works well, plus, the piolit flys, the bomber just gets to drop them, so it will be hard enough to aim when the bomber does almost no aiming him/her self, the laser is just too much IMO

and, I think that artilli would not be good, due to a host of reasons, things would just get out of hand... having a bomber fly over the target is fine though ;)

[BUGGER]

i dont know why its all good being so low, sooner or later your just gona fly right into a wall. I think they can drop from anywhere. remember that the enemy does have a vehicle station somewhere and also some scouts in the sky, so it wont be that hard to take out a high rang bomber. If that is hard, then its gona be really hard to stop a full galaxy dropin 10 or so troops. Oh wait, make that 5 galaxys.

[MrVulcan]

Well, I never said low, I just think that it should be able to get hit by the AAmax, etc

[BUGGER]

Sit would have to fly within its rang, or known as the low. Medium is just that area where all air battles take place. And High is where the air is thin and where all the fire is gona rip all the paint off the bottom of your helpless little hull.

[Hamma]

Originally posted by Cyanide
First of all, most artillery shells make a noise when they're falling. Second, I wan't aware that as soon as you die your game screen switches away and there is no death animation. Do you just sit there with a black screen if you're waiting for an advanced med to revive you? Third, if the only thing that could kill you without you knowing what it was is an artillery shell landing right on you, one should be able to use ones amazing brain power to deduce that it was an artilery shell which killed them.

Four, going back to where you were killed in a reaver and blowing the hell out of the artillery gun which probably spent a looonng time to get into that position = FUN.

BTW, if you don't see the dude pointing the big bright targeting laser at your position you're blind. You're also stupid for not running away from laser because it has to achive a lock before firing and once it is fired the shell is not guided by the laser. You apparently do not understand what artillery is, its out of range. The whole mfing point is you CANT SEE IT :rofl:

I quit several nights in a row when the Phoenix was overpowered and could be turned down base hallways. I would surely call it a night if i started getting bombarded by shells from behind some mountin. That = gay

[1024]

I think that a good "super weapons", like the orbital strike thing, would be an EMP. It should be pretty big, but not big enoug hto hit a whole abse, or small enoug hto hit only like 2 tanks. This way noone dies, they're just put at a pretty bad disadvantage.

[Kyonye]

bombers, already there. artillery, no. there is no need for artillery. the heavy tanks in all factions can act as artillery already. they purposely stay away from artillery so that there can be no 20 person killings at one time. the bomber idea is prety much already in there. the reaver can fire off around 60 missiles before having to go back to a base and getting more. the pretty much is a bomber.

if you put artlillery into the game, those people will gain more grief points than they can imagine. i think they're trying to stay away from that.

[Vis Armata]

Why laser-guide the bombs at all? Drop the bombs and run...griefing should keep them from being abused. (Implement an old-fashioned bombsight, like the Norden kind from WWII, or the Thundersword "bombsight" that rolled over the terrain) Make them highly visible on radar, so that when Hamma takes one for the team, he at least knew that someone was dropping bombs. :) Separate certs for bomber crews (pilot and bombadier at least), so that the appearance of a bomber is rare.

More: 20-40 bombs total (10-20 vehicle-busting, 10-20 infantry-busting, 0 bunker busting), long vehicle timer, at least one gun point (chaingun/recoilless cannon/energy beam), usable only from base air pads and air towers, and a crew of 3 working together and getting orders from commanders so that they don't wipe out their own army would be great.

[Spinnaker]

they should make a thingy for air strikes not in asense of bombs but like a ac-130 gun ship... mini guns, 50mm cannons 30mm cannons and a few bottle rockets and the plane shoudl do max, 2 straferuns near the target, have 6 people fire, 1 pilot and have a guy on the ground have the laser. a team can only use the plane at request of the targeter. if not in use should stay at sanc, when called on shoudl fly all they way there. maybe it can get shot down too.

[BeerJedi]

I liked the idea of laser guided tomahawk missles (that can be shot down).

Two man crew.

1. Laser Handler
2. Gunner

The laser guy has to paint the target. The instant the target is painted, the shot can be fired. But the painter still has to keep the little red dot on the target.

If anyone has played old Team Fortress, the snipers used red laser sights for targeting. u couldn't see the beam, but u could see the red dot. And if he placed it on your head, u knew what it was.

In this case, if you saw the dot, its not instant death cause the missle still gotta get to you.

Also, if the laser is turned off, or the missle loses site, it becomes a dumb rocket and just crashes (no exp).

Give it more power than the normal missles/rockets out there.
3 sec reload time (one shot at a time) with a 20 max shots before outta ammo.

The missile's rocket trail will be a nice indicator to where the shot was fired from. Smoke trail straight up from the trees is a pretty obvious indicator.

counter measures....

An ACE can be applied to an vehicle by a combat engineer that can detect the laser site painting the specific vehicle. Giving the driver ample oppurtunity to manuever.

[orogogus]

I dunno, I kinda like Cyanide's suggestions, although I do understand where your frustration comes from Hamma.

But the phoenix issue is more about the fact that it's guidable and creates it's own LOS and that everyone and their brother can how one and spam them from inside/near an AMS- unlike what we are proposing. Basically these would outside only, take coordiantation and a long time to get in place, wouldn't shoot that quickly. I think it'd be sorta fun.

The orbital barrage sounds cool with CR- I like the idea of a large area EMP strike more than physical damage.

As for issues about 'needing' a lock with artillery- why not have multiple shell types (ditto for bombs) and the alternate fire mode is to use a laser designator (which is still useless inside or when there is something over the target like a bridge etc. Regular fire mode is 'dumb' (read grief magnet). Maybe make it so that artillery can't deploy inside an AMS cloak (or so big that it doesn't fit).

[BUGGER]

Skipping along back, if atliery why not just use GoldenEye!!!:D

[BeerJedi]

i think its called orbital strike for fear of copyright infringements. ;)

[EarlyDawn]

Originally posted by Hamma
Games are supposed to be about fun. Running around looking for some artillery tank hiding somewhere = not fun

dying without knowing how = not fun

Amen.

[Tricky]

I too am with Hamma, why not just make an "I Win" button. It'll save you the head-ache of leaving Sanc. to kill someone.

[Happy lil Elf]

Yes because a button that says "I win" is exactly what's being discussed :rolleyes:

I'd love to see a 6 crew bomber or something along those lines. Something where if fully manned it's a challenge to shoot it down without being shot down. I'd also like to see flares of some sort that can throw of incoming missles for 2 to 3 seconds implimented although I'd like to actually try the game before I see any changes :p