New day (here) and new post, One shot one Kill info! [Archive]

MrVicchio

2002-12-13, 01:58 AM

Author Topic: One shot kills to dangerous?
Dangerchicken
Station Member
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 12-12-2002 03:51 PM user search report post
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I read in the PSU preview that lights shot anywhere by a sniper rifle (bolt driver or whatnot) would be a one shot kill, this worries me somewhat... As long as sniping isnt the static crosshairs bull which plagues SOF2 I will be happy, RTCW style floating crosshairs would be a great move, it would actually bring a real element of skill. But if the crosshairs are static, and the shots are one shot kills, then sniping will become yet another lame way of killing, which takes almost no skill, take DOD for example, sniping is very difficult, but similarly rewarding.
I'd bet that alot of you "ubar snipar dudes" havent ever done any form of real life sniping, and therefore have no idea of the real difficulties. Neither have I, not with the reel steel at least, but if Airsoft and Paintball can teach me anything it's that sniping is certainly not as easy as many games make it out to be, regardless of the windage/range factors, even spotting enemys (or strange 30 year old men in camo for that matter) in a combat zone can be very difficult, even with the best scopes around.

Because of it's nature as a current day fps planetside cant replicate real life cover and the pure flexibility of the terrain to any acceptable degree, this makes the process of spotting, let alone shooting, far far easier and thus this should be countered by a subsequent increase in difficulty on another level, I.E damage or tribes 2 style lasers. While this is true for any weapon, it is especially so with sniper rifles due to their sheer power and range.

******************* DEV REPLY ******************

SmokeJumperPS
Station Admin
Registered: Sep 2001 posted 12-12-2002 04:50 PM user search report post
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The bolt driver will CURRENTLY (subject to change) kill someone in one-shot if they are wearing Standard or Infiltration exo-suits.
If they are wearing an Agile exo, then they will be close to dead. Reinforced takes a couple shots. MAXs? Well...many.

Number are subject to change after further playtesting, so don't get too worked up about them.

http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/planetside/Forum2/HTML/000688.html

cujoman39

2002-12-13, 02:07 AM

what are you talking about sniping is very easy with a paintgun real guns though are whay more difficult i mean you have to deal with the recoil. I mean i've never fired a gun at long range but i have fired one at a shooting rang and hitting a target with a pistol at 25 yds takes some skill good thing im a natural born shot mabey the fact that i was using a 357. didnt help.

but your right sniping in ral life is hard!!!!!!!!!

�io

2002-12-13, 02:13 AM

Cujo, MrVicchio didn't post that, Dangerchicken posted it on the PSU-wannabe site. :)

(Follow link at bottim of post)

cujoman39

2002-12-13, 02:21 AM

i stick by my answer!!!!!!!!!!

cujoman39

2002-12-13, 02:30 AM

What i said is still true!!!!!:sniper:

�io

2002-12-13, 02:39 AM

Yeah but you need to go post it in the other thread on that PSU-wannabe site. :)

Ravon Dark

2002-12-13, 02:44 AM

I figured I'd just shed some light on this... Ok, though I'm not 'technically' trained nor have I had the ability to find a shooting range long enough, I do know what I'm talking about when I say it's no where near as easy as any game puts it, except maybe... Biiig maybe on America's Army. I know it's really not that accurate because the sights really aren't calibrated all that well and if you aim whereever at the center of your crosshairs, that's where it hits. As for a natural shot... I used a .357 magnum on a 100-125 yard range and was hitting a pie tin 5 shots outta 6. ;) But it's still not nearly as easy as any of it is in games or how it sounds. I would be very happy if it was incredibly accurate as long as there was enough information given to me... range finder would be nice too considering you lose a lot of depth with it being a computer screen.

*edit*

I figured I'd toss this up here too, was posting it over there as well.

xuur

2002-12-13, 03:04 AM

I shot amateur long range a number of years ago and still do a fair amount of desert shooting. Hitting anything at any real distance is hard. Hitting it well is harder.

I've done sniping in many of the current games and the floating crosshair system mentioned is alot more realistic than anything static unless you're using a bipod or other stand.

One shot kills I think are a necessary part of having anything classed as a sniper. I just really hope theres some real challenge to it. Making those thrill kills from a massive amount of distance should be something you want to brag about later, not just another point.

IMO

Archonxvi

2002-12-13, 03:35 AM

It seems that in order to do any real damage, there needs to be more than one sniper, which is how it should be, if you ask me. Although you can take out a light in one hit, if you ever see a light outside a vehicle, you should be able. Same goes for cloaking- if you see it, it should die. Two hits for medium sounds about right, because you would need a coordinated attack to bring it down, and MAX's and the like should not be damaged by a sniper.
-edit-
Hehehe my sig worked.....

Lexington_Steele

2002-12-13, 03:36 AM

This is clarification I greatly appreciate. I have no problems one shot kills only apply to noob armor and stealth armor.

I definately can live with the idea that you need atleast two shots from the bolt driver to kill someone in an agile exosuit or the reinforced armor.

Jonnyp54

2002-12-13, 02:32 PM

Well i am part of a CCF (cadets) in my school and have fired in excess of 500 rounds so i like to think i no a bit :p and yes computer games truly are a piece of piss! the first time i fired with a scope was at 200 metres (the average contact distance) and i hardly hit the target. it takes more than just point and shoot! you need to remba everything such as too keep it in your shoulder etc. and if you doont have total control over the rifle then you will never hit. i have also fired at 100 with a cadet go (just a single shot 5.56 rifle) and it is brilliant- i suggest anyone try itbut again any more than 200 and you are lucky if see the target!

�io

2002-12-13, 02:56 PM

Funny how everybody here is an amateur sniper... :rolleyes: ;)

Unregistered

2002-12-13, 03:03 PM

Not me. I perfer shot guns because you can't knock down a dove with a rifle no mater who you are!

Medicine Man

2002-12-13, 03:20 PM

If its sitting in a tree i dont think a dove would be too hard with a rifle :p

Zartax

2002-12-14, 08:15 AM

I'm doing the military service in Sweden right now, and we run around in the forests and shooting ranges and unload our AK5's. It's a standard 5.56 full- semi-automatic rifle. I've never tried shooting with a scope, but it is not too hard to hit a target at 300m, given it's not moving and you are flat on your stomac. With a scope I don't see how one could miss. But, that only apply to a still target. Moving targets are much harder to hit, near impossible if the target knows how to move.

But let's not forget that this is a game. It's not supposed to be ultra-realistic. It's supposed to be fun. And with a sniper that you can't hit anyone with it becomes useless, but more importantly, BORING!, to be a sniper.

In a game everyone is constantly running around doing teir bussiness, whereas in real life you more often get standing targets, since there is not point in always runnning around. Therefor you must compensate this with making it easier to hit people at long ranges than in real life.

If a sniper starts to bother a defending team (or attacking) you must have those nifty countermessures ready, like another sniper, a stealthdude that has the single purpose to be a sniperhunter, or an airscout which find and hopefully eliminates any snipers.

Snipers must be good at killing infantry, since it's thier only use. They can't take out tanks, they are useless anti-air and they are easy to kill. Their only chance is stealth and the power in their rifle against infantry.

Zarparchior

2002-12-14, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by Unregistered
Not me. I perfer shot guns because you can't knock down a dove with a rifle no mater who you are! BOO YAH! Another shotgun guy! :D

I'm surprised people haven't complained about shotguns as of yet. A skilled person in most tourny style games can dominate with a shotgun style weapon - just as easily as a sniper rifle. Of course, you get to see the person blowing you away with a shotgun. Makes it fairer. ;)

Jinxmasta

2002-12-14, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by Zartax
I've never tried shooting with a scope, but it is not too hard to hit a target at 300m, given it's not moving and you are flat on your stomac.
LOL! Is it just me or is this guy the biggest lier in the world? At 300 meters, I would be surprised if you could even see the target! Oh and if you don't have a scope and you can't see the target, how are you supposed to hit him?

Camping Carl

2002-12-15, 01:21 AM

So jinx, have you actually been on a shooting range? Believe me, seeing a target at 300 meters is possible. Hitting it tho, well that's a different matter.

DiosT

2002-12-16, 01:10 AM

well, remember that most games try to make you a "trained sniper"... flying a jet/plane isnt as easy as msot games make it out either.. btu if it was incredibly difficult to do everything, no one would want to do it...

Static targets are EXTREMELY easy to hit, ESPECIALLY with a rifle/scope designed for precisson shooting... I'm not a trained sniper, but i am an experienced sharpshooter...

Snipers in WW1 could hit targets with the Springfield rifle at 1250 feet.. keep in mind the springfield was the INFANTRY unit weapon that snipers just used as a makeshift sniper rifle (snipers wern't yet developed into a 'specialized' unit).

With scopes, and higher quality rifles, Snipers can hit targets a few thousand feet away.. but.. obviously.. these are some of the best snipers in the world...

in general... based on PS's time frame & technology level, i think an 'average' ability of a sniper taking out A STATIC TARGET relaibly at 1/2 a mile isnt too far off.. Of course, the faster someone moves, and the greater the distance, the easier it is to LOOSE the target in the scope... so basicly.. once people know there is a sniper, and starts to move, the sniper is instantly reduced in effectiveness...

and 'floating' crosshairs arnt to realistic, during the first 10-15 seconds a sniper prepares his shot(controls his breathing and looks downt he scope), he can keep the gun almost perfectly straight & on target (for closer shots), or fairly on target(looking through high power scopes)... after that however, 'floating' crosshairs would be realistic, because of strain on eyes and muscles, it becomes harder to keep the crosshairs on smaller targets reliably.. but... like i said.. and from MY Experience as a sharpshooter/marksman, for the first 8-14 seconds, the sniper can keep his gun on the mark very nicely...

Now keep in mind my experience is in fairly controlled conditions(no/little wind), but thats what the cone is for(which may be offset a bit to one side consistantly to show the effect of wind, which also lets the sniper compensate)

DiosT

2002-12-16, 01:14 AM

At 300 meters, I would be surprised if you could even see the target!

Well.. if it is the size of a small bird.. may be hard.. but a human can fairly easily be seen without a scope

Saint

2002-12-16, 05:51 AM

The awp isn't a fiasco. It was the most realistic thing I have ever seen in a video game. It killed in one hit anywhere in the body or head and in the arms, hands, legs and feet it did 85% damage. So I don't know why people complained.

RG_Vortex

2002-12-16, 06:08 AM

Hey Zartax! Vilken tj�nst g�r du och hur l�nge?

As for hitting a target at 300 meters without scope... I'd say if you have about average talent and are well trained with your rifle, you should have not problem hitting a static target at that distance. Takes a little training though...

The real challenge is to hit a target at long distance, knowing your rifle and how to set up your scope right is crucial. You will have to know the bullet trajectory inside out, as well as your rifle, and you must know how the weather and wind affects them both. Sniping is an art... hitting someone at medium distance, say up to 600 meters, can just about anyone do who's reasonably talented. But getting constant 1-shot kills at ranges up to 1000 meters and beyond... man that requires both skill and training not very many people have.

And yes we're talking real life so don't get confused... I'm not a trained sniper in real life but you could say I've shot a few rounds... funny thing is I shoot better kneeling than prone lol. Go figure... I'm not the sniper guy but I'm very accurate in sticky situations.

Camping Carl

2002-12-16, 12:12 PM

People complained about the awp because EVERY stupid n00b uses them, and they don't take any skill to use. I prefer the schmidt myself.

DiosT

2002-12-16, 12:21 PM

by comparison.....

sniper rifle is an 'awp' against people in the lightest 2 armors... which are the camo suit(so harder there), and the light armor, which is what pilots will use(and thus, are protected by the vehicle), Medics and hackers i havnt seen anything to say they must be in light armor to do medical or hacking skills, so.... EVERYONE will be in medium armor at least....

sooooooooo........ MOST everyone will be in at least medium armor... and ya get hit by the most powerful non-vehicle weapon in the game and it'll do 70-80% damage... i think that's somewhat fair, considering the bolt driver is single shot, and they have to reload and re-zoom/aim after every shot, so I think it's gonna be at least a 10 second delay between shots, thats PLENTY of time to look for the sniper OR go for cover...

Again i agree 1-shot 1-kill is very powerful, and should be controlled.... well.. it is....

VERY VERY VERY few people in light armor will be IN THE OPEN, ANYONE who anticipates being in combat will go for medium armor... hackers, some medics, etc... will all hide in vehicles until their skills are needed, and they are gonna AVOID fire from people, SNIPERS or NOT...

A sniper shoots them with the bolt driver, they die in a single shot, someone else empties 1/4th a clip in them, they die...

whats the big deal? not like the Bolt Driver is an automatic weapon, you miss with BD you're screwed til you can reload, with an automatic weapon you get like 20 chances in 2 seconds to hit the guy...

Using the BD is gonna require skill, especially on mobile targets, and there will be next to no 1-shot 1-kill situations in open battlefields... ONLY when snipers go for the hackers running for the base door...

Snipers big use is gonna be weakening people i think.. an dletting someone else automatic a fewer weak people in a squad(sniper weakens 2-5 people, then a MAX comes in and chainguns them, the 2-5 people drop fast, then 1-2 more people come in to take out the rest of the squad, for example)

As it stands now, Sniping is very balanced...

1-shot 1-kill on the weakest NON-COMBATANTS(people who avoid the weapons fire)
2-3 shots for 1 kill against the NORMAL combatant(anyone who plans to be on a battle field)
4-6+ shots against a MAX--Max's are tough, but they arnt invincible, keep in mind the skill & time required for a single sniper to hit a max is hard, and i think 6 sniper shots(probably ~60-80 seconds of time to load/shoot), would do a considerable amount of damage

Camping Carl

2002-12-16, 02:51 PM

4-6 shots for a max would be nice. But dave's comments suggest otherwise.
He actually said that you shouldn't even bother trying to snipe a max suit.

Zarparchior

2002-12-16, 03:12 PM

As for the 300m question... doesn't it ALL depend on the size of teh target?

n00bs. :D

Zartax

2002-12-17, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by Zarparchior
As for the 300m question... doesn't it ALL depend on the size of teh target?

n00bs. :D

I was talking about a siluette of a person lying down, seen from the front. (aka 1/3).

Vortex, jag ligger inne 15 m�nader i Kristenehamn som b-platschef (10-50 meter fr�n artilleripj�serna och ser till s� att alla utr�kningar g�r r�tt till). Sj�lv d�?

RG_Vortex

2002-12-17, 08:06 PM

D va som fan, trodde inte det fanns n�tt artilleri kvar! Har du uppgifter p� vad som finns numer? Sj�lv l�g jag som PB (14 m�n) p� AmfBat i Vaxholm. 12/80 var en k�r v�n... som tyv�rr l�ggs ned nu. :(

Zartax

2002-12-17, 09:34 PM

A9 i Kristinehamn �r det enda kvarvarande atrilleriregementet. Sen finns det en liten sektion uppe i boden ocks�, men det �r allt. :(

DiosT

2002-12-18, 07:55 AM

also, wanted to comment that MAX suits arnt vehicles, they are bodies surrounded by metal, so if you shoot a HIGH powered rifle, it has the chance of penatrating the armor and hitting the person...

Not saying i want 1-shot 1-kill for max's.. just supporting my idea that 4-6+ shots on a MAX from the bolt driver should greatly hurt the pilot(it probably takes over a minute and all shots hitting to do this).. I think MAX's shouldnt be 'invincible' to sniper fire.. that is all...

In the end I'll side with the dev's, if they think the MAX's armor is strng enough to repel the strongest slugs, but not 5-10 weak slugs, then so be it, I'll be happy with the weaker units =p

Omega

2002-12-18, 06:03 PM

Well from the subject of my post I play SOCOM: U.S Navy Seals on my PS2 Online. I feel that SOCOM did a very good job with the sniping target. When you are in your regular third person view you have a static crosshair like with any other weapon and most times when that crosshairs go red and you fire that person is going down. I've seen people who run around with sniper rifles and act like their shotguns or something and I really dislike that.

But also at the same time when you go into the full out sniper scope the crosshairs are not static and bob and weave varingly depending on what type of stance you are in.

I.E: Standing up and trying to snipe is very difficult in scope mode, for the crosshairs are bobbing like crazy. If you are crouching the bobbing is significantly reduced and ontop of that when you are proned [totally laying on the ground] the crosshairs move at a minimal pace. I think if the developers add this to the sniping system that things should greatly improve.

Static snipping scopes would just plain SUCK and remove all need for having SKILL when snipping. That's one reason why I would want to become a sniper. It takes SKILL to take away from that would take away from the game.

Justin

DiosT

2002-12-18, 06:11 PM

only problem is there is no prone position....

so bobbing crosshairs would be a constant problem, and yeild few rewards over just taking a heavy tank with it's static aiming and blasting a pack of lightly armored enemies away....

I wouldnt play a sniper with NO prone position AND bobbing crosshairs with NO infiltration suit... i mean... people 'fear' the snipers ability to take out a hacker from long distance.. HeLlO! Only fools or non-combatants will be in Light Armor!!! that means 98% of the PS population will be in Medium+ armor!!! You're ass one be one-shot one-killed!

I agree snipers shouldnt be overpowered... but one guy says "well we can limit them by doing this..." then someone else says "or we could do this....", and someone else says "i dont think they should be able to....." and then they start combinding all the negatives....

I dont think Anti-Aircraft missiles should work on ground units or vehicles... they should do 1% damage to a dude in light armor.. Anti-Aircraft missles also should NOT be able to lock & track, that requires no skill... also shouldnt be able to move for 10 seconds prior to launching the missile, and for 5 seconds as the fire button is pulled(no shotting on the run or moving while firing--throws off the auto-tracking we already removed).... That's what all this is sounding like to me...

Snipers/Bolt Drivers ARNT the only long-ranged weapons, a single-person tank posses a greater threat to 90% of the PS population then 2-3 snipers...

ft-Marauder

2002-12-18, 07:14 PM

*ahem* Of course we're wearing powered armor... so you'd THINK you'd be able to lock the armor to get stabilzation on your weapons. :):)

DiosT

2002-12-19, 06:52 AM

good point marauder

Hatte

2002-12-19, 07:35 AM

But even locking the armor, you dont lock into the ground, which is the real stabilizing point of sniping from the prone position, so instead of the gun moving around, your whole body would sway.

DiosT

2002-12-19, 07:40 AM

localized locking =p only lock some points for added stability =p

Zartax

2002-12-19, 09:17 PM

Having a bobbing/irregular moving crosshair while in scope mode doesn't add as much skill as it adds luck. If the crosshair just happened to move away/to the player at the time of pulling the trigger shouldn't be a thing to get irritated by. Hitting someone moving irregularly at a long distance is hard enough.

Anyway, snipers should get easy free kills from a long distance since it's their only chance at winning the fight. If the assault machinegun massing out damage guy comes close to the sniper, the sniper is doomed, and the assauls etc etc guy get a free kill. So it's just a matter of specialities and playing styles.

And, ontop of that, as already mentioned, a lonesome tank can be much more dangerous to a squad than a lonesome sniper. It's all a matter of preparing for battle. Have a anti-tank weapon vs the tank and a fast assaultrifle sniperhunter vs the sniper (or just a better sniper, or a light tank, or a mosquito). See, the choices are endless.

Give the snipers thier hilltop and sniperrifle and let them be snipers!

Sandtaco

2002-12-19, 10:08 PM

Anyway, snipers should get easy free kills from a long distance since it's their only chance at winning the fight. Wow, that's overboard. Easy free kills, then we would have servers full of noob snipers who think that they kick ass. :p

TG_Dead__Eye

2002-12-20, 01:33 AM

I have read almost all of this string and would like to say a few facts. First off, if you have your scope dialed in for you, then sniping should not be hard at all. First off if you have a gun that you have never shot before or someone else uses all the time, then ya you should have a very tough time hiting the target with it and even more so if you are using a scope, but if this is your gun with a scope and you are the only one using it then you should be able to do one shot one kills all day long or at least 2 shot 1 kills even if the target is moving. Scopes are designed for you to dial them in to your eye, and once you have done that you should be dead on. As far as moving targets, if you really want to get some practice in on that, go out and do some skeet shooting and learn how to aim a little bit in front of your target and then shoot. You can learn alot and learn how people can get 1 or 2 shot kills on a moving target, but it does take practice. I was rased in Alaska and have shot moving and not moving animals from a ways away with a scope, I also did skeet shooting all the time, and I know that it isn't easy for someone that has never had to shoot at a moving target, but for anyone that has gotten the hang of it, they usually can be very good at hitting what they are aiming at. I like how they have the hit to kill ratio for the game so far, and I do believe that maxes should be subject to damage from a sniper. There is no such thing as armor that can resist all, every piece of armor has its weakness and maxes should have there weakness as well. Well I hope this helps out on the sniper issue, oh yes a floating cross hair would make it a bit more real as well. Ok well hope that helps.
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