What is this matrix system?

[Jaged]

I have heard alot of people talking about this, what is it?

[Civilian]

It's a stupid system that's being implemented to stop people from hacking undefended bases.

You can read about it here:

http://users2.ev1.net/~jasonsharp/index.html

[Seer]

No one said it was being implemented. I'm, personally, in favor of any change that causes the player base to fight more tenaciously over a smaller set of bases. This 'let's go hack empty base x where there is no resistance' stuff isn't exactly what you'd call exciting for either the attackers or the defenders. They made the world a little too big. I'm not saying the matrix is necessarily the only solution, but it would do the job of shrinking the world.

[Civilian]

:sigh:

SmokeJumperPS
Station Admin posted 04-23-2003 08:26 PM user search report post
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is a matrix system in tomorrow's patch. We put our own spin on it, of course.
Details coming tomorrow.


http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/betapls/Forum1/HTML/003862.html

[Jaged]

I did read a dev post saying it would be implimented today (thursday) in the patch tonight.

Ant that page you liked to is realy long. Could someone sum it up is a few scentences?

[Seer]

Oh, I hadn't seen that post.

Basically the point of the matrix system is to cause people to fight over fewer bases by making certain bases part of a matrix where you have to capture base x before progressing to base y. That idea is to have a tangible front line, larger scale battles, and eliminate the phantom hacker musical bases issue. Might work, might not--it's still beta, and musical bases is definitely an issue that needs to be addressed.

[Venoxile]

SmokeJumperPS
Station Admin posted 04-23-2003 08:26 PM user search report post
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is a matrix system in tomorrow's patch. We put our own spin on it, of course.
Details coming tomorrow.




YES. I never thought it would happen, I thought that the devs would be too proud and arrogant to take someone elses brilliant idea. This will make the game 10x better in my opinion. It actually creates front lines like a real war, no more random base capturing.

[gonnagetyou]

I personally like the idea myself. I think you'll see a lot more action and team work. Not' that you don't see that now, but this time it will be a little more focused objective wise. It will be interesting to see what kind of spin the developers have placed on the idea.

[Gerico]

I think its a smashing idea, best thing yet, more action and big battles, less jumping around.

[Civilian]

I want to wait and see what "spin" they have put on it before I make a proclamation one way or the other. As long as they add attrition, I will be ok. I just don't want to see the line never move.

Hopefully they will reduce the amount of time before a base changes hands after a hack.

[Seer]

Well, the problem right now is that bases change hands too often and on an entirely random basis. If the matrix system goes in and it is found that bases hardly ever change hands (I don't think that will happen, attackers are too tenacious and creative and defenders get sloppy after a while), then that will have to be rebalanced as well. The point is, it is working towards a solution.

[Venoxile]

You guys are forgetting, check out zoolooman's website, if you really read through the entire matrixing idea, there are all kinds of different ways to open more then 1 front line per continent.

[Airlift]

From http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/betapls/Forum1/HTML/004257.html

SmokeJumper
Station Admin posted 04-24-2003 12:54 PM user search report post
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just in case anyone thinks we "caved to pressure" about the Matrix idea...you don't know us very well yet, if that's the case.
We will NEVER "cave to pressure" on this game. We only implement ideas if WE think they're a good idea.
The Continental Lattice is going in because it solves many serious gameplay/gameflow issues at once. I recommend trying it a bit before passing judgement upon it.

Granted...we recognized the idea as interesting when we saw folks post it on the forums, but we were actively pursuing solutions to the "phantom hacker" issue, the need for defense incentives, and the complete non-clarity of our facility abilities. We combined all three solutions into the Continental Lattice because it's elegant, obvious to players, and does a lot of what we originally wanted in the game.

We have yet to see an exact description of the Lattice we implemented on anyone's web page. It will probably *look* familiar, but there are subtle differences that have a large impact.

[Airlift]

All I can say is that I hope my reservations about the base matrices are either wrong or addressed by the "Dev's Spin" on what I consider to be a generally bad idea.

[Venoxile]

I think you're just mad because you're obviously a phantom hacking infil :) . (obvious because you have told us of your phantom hacking experiences)

[Airlift]

Except that I don't hack bases when I'm by myself. That only serves to bring down a full squad on top of me, resulting in a quick demise every single time. On the other hand, I do hack towers by myself (but I'd be happy to defer the tower cap to any nearby squads :D).

No, what I do when I'm playing solo is hang around vehicle/equipment terms, courtyards, woods around bases, and well-travelled bridges. That's where you can rack up the fun kills without being jacked for it. You can also get lots of easy kills in friendly bases, picking off enemies as they hack.

When I am with my squad, I do not generally fight on the "front lines", I go chew up the soft spots instead. If that is restricted by the "continental lattice", then you are all **** (not that there's anything wrong with that ;)) and I will want to kick Zoolooman in the beans.

[Venoxile]

Originally posted by Airlift
Except that I don't hack bases when I'm by myself. That only serves to bring down a full squad on top of me, resulting in a quick demise every single time. On the other hand, I do hack towers by myself (but I'd be happy to defer the tower cap to any nearby squads :D).

No, what I do when I'm playing solo is hang around vehicle/equipment terms, courtyards, woods around bases, and well-travelled bridges. That's where you can rack up the fun kills without being jacked for it. You can also get lots of easy kills in friendly bases, picking off enemies as they hack.

When I am with my squad, I do not generally fight on the "front lines", I go chew up the soft spots instead. If that is restricted by the "continental lattice", then you are all **** (not that there's anything wrong with that ;)) and I will want to kick Zoolooman in the beans.

If they take zoolooman's idea, you can go anywhere you want, you just can't hack bases that aren't connected to bases you already have. Sure you can kill lots and lots of people on soft spots, you just can't phantom hack there.

[Seer]

Nothing preventing you from going behind the front lines, It isn't like there will be a big force-barrier preventing you from doing so--you just won't be able to cap bases.

[Airlift]

I must not have been clear. When I am with a squad, we DO cap bases. We DO NOT want to ride to the front lines for yet another Gunuku Zerg Rush.

When I am alone, sneaking thru your territory, I DO NOT want to sit around for 15 minutes waiting for someone to respond to my hack by slaughtering my unarmored ass. I DO want to roast people who don't expect it.

[Seer]

I think I was clear too--you, either alone or in a squad--can go behind the front lines all you like, but you won't be able to cap bases. I won't get into why capturing enemy facilities behind front lines is unrealistic on its face, since this is a game, but it just isn't in keeping with the philosophy of the game. People shouldn't be expected to actively defend bases behind the front lines on the off chance that you and your squad will show up. That's ludicrous.

One way to keep your squad and others like it from turning the maps into a completely random jumbles is to create a front line. That doesn't mean that every attack will be a gunuku zerg rush, it just means you might have to work with your empire rather than you and a squad setting down in an undefended tech plant, eliminating the 4 or 5 people that come to get you or happen to be in the base, and raking in 3500 exp 15 minutes later, then leaving to do it again.

[Ubernator]

I am a supporter of the matrix. I think it will help spread out the population on a continent a lot better.

As for hacking behind enemy lines... it's still somewhat possible (with a little planning and coordination).

If you know that an allied squad is about to cap one of the bases on the front lines, you can lead your 1337 squad of commandos into the next couple bases in line. Then your squad can take out the generators, restricting any enemies from respawning there. Once the front lines base is hacked, you can then proceed to take over the base behind enemy lines.

Sounds like fun to me. I can't wait to see how this matrix system will work out for Planetside.

[MrVulcan]

a matrix system is probably the worst thing that they could ever make.... it will force everyone to fight along a single line, and thus have a trench war, fighting hours for every inch of ground.
You want a front war, this will do it, but now no one will be able to go anywhere, it will take many hours and 1000s and 1000s of lives to take 1 base since they know where you have to hit...

Trench wars are no fun, you log in, sit in 1 spot, fire fire fire fire die die die fire... no stragity, no tactics, nothing

Somehting like this can destroy this great game.

Some of you have said nothing will keep you from going behind the lines, yes it will, the point is getting bases, thus you must hit the next base, so you must fight in that spot, if you go around or do somehting else, you will server no reason, and get nothing done.

[MilitantB0B]

Mabe I have just been getting lucky (or unluckly, depending on how you look at it) but I have been playing for a couple of day now, and have capped many a base. But not one of thoose bases we took, came without some kinda fight. Personlay, I hope this does encourage defence though. Afterall, I can't really rack up the infiltration kills if the enemy doesn't stick around long enough for me to catch em alone. :D

[Hellsfire123]

hmmm....spin.....that could be interesting...

Im a huge fan of the matrix "idea". Anything to keep me from getting to a continent, pushing m, and having a seisure from all the hotspots. The only way to know whos fighting were is to compare current colors and the flag colors, and even thats iffy. This should make it alot more clear as to who ill be fighting and what to bring.

For those who seem to like assualting unoccupied bases, you can still destroy ants and generators, hack terminals, and cause general mayhem in spawn rooms. You wont get much exp....but you can still do it.

[MilitantB0B]

I just read about the Matrix idea. Sounds pretty cool. I like the fact that it will create some lines of combat. I also like thatt you can still hack bases behind enemy lines (assuming they follow the idea created by Zoolooman). I just can't wait till I see my first seige on a base. I see lots of long term weaponry and heavy armor creating quite a blockade :D

[penpen374]

They call it the Latice: Here are the patch notes related to it. The other patch notes you wouldnt understand unless you were in beta so I wont bore you with them.
32) Continental Lattice is now in-place. (NOTE: This is only the first installment of changes designed to deal with "phantom hacker", geographic war issues, and incentives to defend. But it has high impact, so we are testing it alone initially.)

In a nutshell, the Lattice lets you determine where you can attack next.

a) You may only hack a facility that is connected, via the lattice, to a facility you already own. (�Hack� links are shown in gold if they are your Empire, grey if they pertain to other Empires. Links between same-Empire-owned facilities are the correct color for that Empire�red for TR, blue for NC, purple for VS.)

b) If, for some calamitous reason, you own NO facilities, anywhere in the world, you can always hack the facilities connected to your secure warpgates at your Sanctuary. (Example: If you are TR, you can always hack Orisha on Cyssor because it connects directly to the TR Sanctuary Warpgate.)

c) To hack into a locked continent, you must own the facilities connected to the warpgate on the OTHER continent first. (Example: If you want to hack ***a on Cyssor, and Cyssor is continent-locked, then you can capture Sina on Searhus first. That will give you a hack link to ***a and you can try to punch the continent thereafter. (NOTE: This makes the lattice truly global in nature so, Commanders�stay aware.)

d) You may hack ANY neutral building, regardless of its position in the lattice. Therefore, ANTs become even more crucial.

e) NTU consumption has been changed. Buildings no longer deplete NTUs while doing nothing at all. NTUs are now consumed ONLY through auto-repair of equipment within the building (terminals, wall turrets, generators, etc.) and respawns. Therefore, if nothing is going on at the facility, it will never go neutral. NOTE: Enterprising squads might try to destroy equipment in an enemy facility with low power, hoping to consume the last NTUs and get the ability to hack the facility �outside the matrix�. This is another way to "punch" a continent lock.)

33) In preparation for some sweeping facility link abilities (in an upcoming patch) some of the existing link abilities have been removed.
- The Amp Station no longer reduces consumption of NTUs by 50%. (This will be replaced soon with the ability to power up vehicle shields.)
- Amp Station no longer increases the size of the SOI when owned. This was as much hindrance to friendlies as it was detriment to drop-podding enemies.
- The Bio Lab no longer causes Medical Terminals to act as Advanced Medical Terminals. (This will be replaced by a more noticeable reduction in respawn timers to all linked facilities.)
- Tech plant still allows advanced vehicles to be purchased at other owned facilities (no change).
- Interlink still adds radar capabilities, but these will be simplified soon to be more understandable.
- Dropship Center will eventually activate all repair/rearm pads at various facilities so vehicles can repair and access inventory at those pads. That feature may be post-release.
- All link abilities (when we're done with the changes, not currently) will show up as icons near the SOI of the building on the overhead map, thus making it easy to, at-a-glance, see what special abilities each facility has due to links

::Taken from the PS message boards::

The matrix system is brilliant, and you can still strike behind enemy lines by making the system loose power and therefore go neutral. Now stop whining, the matrix system has made me go from pretty sure about getting this game to 100% sure

[Headrattle]

Originally posted by MrVulcan
a matrix system is probably the worst thing that they could ever make.... it will force everyone to fight along a single line, and thus have a trench war, fighting hours for every inch of ground.
You want a front war, this will do it, but now no one will be able to go anywhere, it will take many hours and 1000s and 1000s of lives to take 1 base since they know where you have to hit...

Trench wars are no fun, you log in, sit in 1 spot, fire fire fire fire die die die fire... no stragity, no tactics, nothing

Somehting like this can destroy this great game.

Some of you have said nothing will keep you from going behind the lines, yes it will, the point is getting bases, thus you must hit the next base, so you must fight in that spot, if you go around or do somehting else, you will server no reason, and get nothing done.

Dude that is EXACTLY what I am afraid of. But lets hope it works. If it doesn't they will try something else. We are still in beta after all.

[penpen374]

^^To his above previous post^^

Look, it won't be that you can only attack one base. first of all, there will be multiple bases that will be linked in the matrix, so if you own one base, you can attack 4 other ones, so that's already not making you forced to attack one base.

And, as I mentioned above, if a base is neutral, it loses its spot in the matrix. A base goes neutral if it looses power!!! Therefore, a sneaky group could go in, destory a bases power, hack it, and then re-power it. It makes getting a base behind enemy lines harder, but not impossible.

[Headrattle]

In addition, I just thought of this. It will also create a "cascade effect" meaning that after a while taking each base is easier for one team and harder for the other.

When they gain some momentem the next base will be harder to hold because you won't have as many advantages that come with taking bases. untill that last base is left you will have everyone trying to hold it and it constantly under attack. and the attackers have an advantage.

Just a hunch.

[Streamline]

It's the whole "line in the sand" thing. I'm very interested how they connect the bases together. Will there be times when you have more than one option? It will be nice to see an end to base hopping.

[Navaron]

They way it seems to me, all you'll see is the same people fighting over the same bases all day. If you've been locked in a 3 hour battle over a tower and a base like I have, it gets real damn old - real fast. This game has too much of a rock, paper, scissors unit base to make that fun. If it was where every unit was just as vunerable, then skill could take you foward, but that's not going to happen the way I see it.

[penpen374]

I'm sorry, but maybe the forum servers are laggy, or maybe people just ignore posts from people new to the forums. But I already explained in two previous posts, one directly quoting the patch update information, that it is NOT a solid defensive line. You can still go BEHIND ENEMY LINES and BREAK the matrix. I wonder if i'm invisible or something...

[Headrattle]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
They way it seems to me, all you'll see is the same people fighting over the same bases all day. If you've been locked in a 3 hour battle over a tower and a base like I have, it gets real damn old - real fast. This game has too much of a rock, paper, scissors unit base to make that fun. If it was where every unit was just as vunerable, then skill could take you foward, but that's not going to happen the way I see it.

I agree. I have the feeling it will turn into constant mass rushes that don't end.

I would have rathered better base advantages, new BEP awards and interior automated defenses to the matrix.

[Headrattle]

Originally posted by penpen374
I'm sorry, but maybe the forum servers are laggy, or maybe people just ignore posts from people new to the forums. But I already explained in two previous posts, one directly quoting the patch update information, that it is NOT a solid defensive line. You can still go BEHIND ENEMY LINES and BREAK the matrix. I wonder if i'm invisible or something...

you can still do it, but you have to starve the base of it's NTUs.
So you have to Siege it, destroy the turrets, kill the ANTs and hope that it goes neutral.

Sieges are long, hard and a lot of effort for little gain. Which is exactly what my wife says about me.

[�io]

As i said before i could care less how they do it but they NEED to make defending/retaking bases more important and taking manned bases more rewarding than unmaned bases.

Matrix idea might be good idea but i'd probably just go with increased BEPs for hacking manned bases and retaking bases. (and yeah i know they changed this in new patch, my point still stands. :))

[penpen374]

You only have to perform all the resource starving upon bases that are not directly linked to your matrix, otherwise, you can still hack them normally according to the old fashion.

I think that the matrix is a great idea because before, there was no real incentive for defending a base. Infact, sometimes you wanted it taken over just so you could re-capture it just to get BEPs. This made the war just random skirmishes errupting everywhere at once. This way, there is a frontline, still fighting, but there is still behind the enemy lines action, and there is now incentive to defend.

Besides, if you do complete the hard work of taking a base out by resource starvation in the middle of an enemies matrix, you basically sever their matrix, and it allows you to expand in any direction. This sounds very worthwhile, and gives good incentive for covert ops.

[Airlift]

It's out of discussion and into testing now, so we'll see. There could be tremendous upswing to it, but it could also strip the game down into a series of identical gankufests. I'll figure out what I think after I've had some time to see it in action. It's interesting to note that this is the first in a series of changes to the metagame.

[Tieom]

Depending on how they end up doing it, it will either destroy the game or make it twice as good.

It should be noted that while there WILL be places of continuous 'trench warfare' there will likely be places on OTHER continents where there are much fewer people. The lone squad can still make a difference and cap bases, but instead of any base on the continent you will have a choice of 2-5 bases. This means you will more likely come across some defense - instead of 20something bases you can attack there are only 2-5. If assaulting one base is the same as assaulting another, in this case it would improve gameplay as it is much more likely you will encounter resistance. XP is all well and good, but the real meat of the game is overcoming human resistance.

Also, re: trench warfare - Limited spawn capabilites of bases. If the attackers bring enough AMSs they will eventually outnumber the defenders. I also imagine the air/tank support outfits are gonna love these battles since the everything-else-support is almost assuredly provided by the huge number of people. ALSO, I bet advanced medics would be loved on these battlegrounds due to the massive spawn queue/equipment lines at all towers/AMSs. Advanced medics would be even more important to the defenders since they would likely have the more limited spawn rate in a large confrontation. Destruction of enemy equipment (especially aircraft/vehicle pads) both in the base and in nearby bases would be crucial to winning massive battles.
In other words, it would make a whole new game in addition to the one already there. They could've just suckered us all into buying it for an extra $30 as "Planetside: Massive Assault Edition", anyways.

[Saethan]

I know people have said similar to this before in this exact same thread, but there's still people missing it...

Dunno about you guys, but I plan to take the starve-bases-of-power-behind-enemy-lines route. Destroy everything that takes power for the base to repair(this includes equipment terminals, spawning terminals, gun turrets, just about anything), then destroy any enemy ANT's that come in to try and repower it.

A squad or two could run behind enemy lines and probably break an enemy's matrix without too much effort, either that or split up enemy forces so the enemy goes to deal with the base being drained of ntu's, and loses ground on the front lines.

[Vis Armata]

All I hear from the matrix supporters is:

I want incentive! I want incentive!

Why does everything have to be for points? Don't get me wrong, I like BEPs. But if there's defending to do, it has to be done. I don't need !@#$ing experience just to retain a base. It just needs to be done.

If you want incentive: hold on to bases for your friends, for others in the empire who need technology plants, amp stations, bio labs, etc. There's no bomb, or hostages. Quit treating it like CS.

It's like the short-attention span crowd won over tactics and community play.

[Robot]

Originally posted by Vis Armata
If you want incentive: hold on to bases for your friends, for others in the empire who need technology plants, amp stations, bio labs, etc. There's no bomb, or hostages. Quit treating it like CS.

Let's say you were given a gun and told to go out to a completely abandoned outpost in the middle of nowhere, where there may POSSIBLY be a chance for someone to come and use the facility there, while you gain absolutely nothing by standing in a wall turret scanning constantly for enemies.

Does that sound like fun to you? What's Planetside called again? A game. What's the purpose of games? To have fun. What fun is standing around hoping something will appear and suddenly blow you up just to break the doldrum?

[AcidCat]

Originally posted by Tieom
XP is all well and good, but the real meat of the game is overcoming human resistance.

.

Well said.

[AcidCat]

Originally posted by Robot
What fun is standing around hoping something will appear and suddenly blow you up just to break the doldrum?

Another good one, I totally agree.

[AcidCat]

Originally posted by Saethan

Dunno about you guys, but I plan to take the starve-bases-of-power-behind-enemy-lines route. Destroy everything that takes power for the base to repair(this includes equipment terminals, spawning terminals, gun turrets, just about anything), then destroy any enemy ANT's that come in to try and repower it.



The facility won't have to expend repair energy if Engineers are around to work their special magic.

3 certs well spent, friends. Every soldier out there should have engineering training.

[Tieom]

Originally posted by Vis Armata
All I hear from the matrix supporters is:

I want incentive! I want incentive!

Why does everything have to be for points? Don't get me wrong, I like BEPs. But if there's defending to do, it has to be done.

The problem is, as it stands, there is no real reason why defending 'has to be done' - the attackers can just go a few minutes out of their way and cap a base you aren't standing in. That's why we need a matrix, so they CAN'T just go around you - they need to go through you. Or be smart. But most would likely choose to go through you.

[Saethan]

"The facility won't have to expend repair energy if Engineers are around to work their special magic.

3 certs well spent, friends. Every soldier out there should have engineering training"

Eh, that's why I'd have a squad there going around the base killing anybody that tries to repair the terms/bring an ANT. I was just talking about how I'm going to take bases behind enemy lines.. of course you'd kill the guys that try to stop you from using up all the ntu's.

[Zoolooman]

I'll note that the purpose of the matrix is to encourage large scale fighting. If something is a Gunuku fest, maybe you should go to a more neglected base or continent, and push on the bases there.

Remember, if they implement it well, each base you own provides a large selection of bases to go to next.

The analogy of trench warfare, on the other hand, fails, because trench warfare was a linear form of fighting. You *knew* there was only one choice. The next trench.

In this, if implemented well, there are far more choices. If you truly believe with the continent population caps, that someone will manage to load all possible bases connected to your attacking ones to the brim and turn it into Gunuku on every last base, then you've got to question if the continents are large enough to make attack planning worth while, or if the population cap on the continents is far too high.

[Jakal]

I think that this new system will be good for large unit tactics. As i understand it they still havent implemented the platoon system yet. When that goes up you and your squad can link up with other squads for a major push into enemy territory. Plus as your number of bases on a continent decreases your number of fighters per base to defend increases. This leads to one side digging in hard on the last few bases on a cont. and slowly turning the tide. This will also kick ass when the game goes retail and outfits get more members in the game at once.

[BUGGER]

when i think of marixs, it think of:

[2 5 1]
[6 2 7]
[9 0 5]


Yea basic math....:rolleyes:

[Headrattle]

Originally posted by BUGGER33
when i think of marixs, it think of:

[2 5 1]
[6 2 7]
[9 0 5]


Yea basic math....:rolleyes:

ohhhh those things are FUN!
No seriously.
I like hardcore algebra, mainly because I like puzzles.