no nerf on maxes *tear*

[Zetre]

Wow. I just came back from a little round of PS where we couldn't take a base because 400 maxes were flooding out of it. Even when we got in, there was no hope, because those things are invincible, especially indoors. And guess why we had to take the base in the first place. Why you ask, because about 30 maxes rushed us, and took down our huge mass of like 100 people. This has gotten waaaaay out of hand. Maxes are like walking tanks, except with more armor, and they're harder to hit. A max takes more hits to take down with the pheonix than a mosquito does. It takes as many hits to kill a lighting as a max. This wouldn't be sooo bad, but maxes can go indoors. It is really lame when 1 class of armor can dominate the indoors, and most of the time, the entire game. All you need is one hacker/ engineer, and all the rest can be maxes. Urgh

[Venoxile]

yeah, that's what i've been afraid of ever since i heard the 'max' concept (year or 2 ago?). Not too much bitching about it so far, but i can just see maxes with hackers and engineers owning practically everything and everyone.

[mistled]

Out of the 100 people around on your side, there weren't 30 maxes to combat the 30 that came in?? Or at the least, 30 people didn't decide to switch to maxes to adapt to the threat??

Considering that I took down a max yesterday in standard armor (don't ask why I was only in standard, I really don't know) with a sweeper shotgun, I'm not impressed with your argument to nerf them.

[Zetre]

yeh, unfortunately i have seen it. It's sad. I unloaded 2 clips of AP rounds with my surpressor on one, and he still had a whole bunch of life left. It's really stupid. There's no reason to have 1 thing dominate in a game. Counterstrike has the same damn prob, and it sucks now. Here is how i think it should be done. I think that maxes should only be spawnable in bases. They should be much less armored. They also should have more appropriate weapons. The weapons right now are lame. Sparrow does like a ton to aircraft, but not much too infantry. Uhhhhhhhh. and 1 infantryman should be able to take one indoors. I think it should require some clever manuvering, but they shouldn't just be able to anahalate everything that walks through a door. Ugh, i'm rambling, but yeh, if devs are watchin, DO SOMETHING

[InuYasha]

Well I finally got to play the game today, finally. And I have to say that MAX units are quite good. They make retaking towers pretty difficult, that's for certain. I sure wouldn't want to try taking a tower from more than three or four at a time. You won't see me in a MAX unit though, at least not for a while. I like being infantry too much. :)

InuYasha
Newest grunt for the New Conglomerate

[Hife246]

Hate to say it bud but ITS A SUPRESSOR.. I'm not in beta but I know (or am pretty sure) that even if u are using AP rounds form that gun its gonna take awhile..

[mistled]

Originally posted by Zetre
1 infantryman should be able to take one indoors. First off, one infantryman can take a MAX. But considering that it's a mini tank vs a regular guy, I don't see why you think that this should be a fair one on one fight. For he most part, if one infantry attacks a MAX, he should get owned.

[Nekota]

Well I'm not sure if this works or not because I generally don't end up taking grenades with me. However don't the jammer grenades paralyze MAXs? If not they should. The tactic I use to take out a MAX is to use my infiltrating engineer place a boomer at their feet and sneak off to blow it up I've taken out all kinds of stuff doing this and it's a hell'uva lot of fun.

[Hife246]

Their made to be able to take on multiple guys (from what I've read.. rly sry if I'm wrong) but outdoors is probably where an infantry man will do better cause there's more places to move.

[darknight]

yes, maxes can anhilate anything that walks throught the door.
Solution: DON'T JUST WALK THROUGH THE DOOR. Two hits from a decimator will kill any max. Use large weapons to kill a max. Think about it, you would use a fly swatter to kill a fly, but against a rat or a mouse you would use someting like a hammer, or a mouse trap. Thusly, you would not use a pistol or a very light rifle to kill a MAX, you would use a large gun, like the Phoenix, or the Decimator, or even a Rocklet rifle. A MAX will always take advantage of its tougher armor and bigger guns because you should always take advantage of your superior mobility and broader choice of weaponry to take them out. I know this because I have fought many MAX's, fought as a MAX many times, and usually die about as often with each. And suppressors don't work well against infantry, why should they work well against a MAX.

[WildCard101]

How many sniper shots does it take to kill a MAX?

[Prolific]

Omg why are you whining about MAXs....they're just fine. Not to strong and not to weak. I can take on MAXs outdoors pretty easily, well not easily but I can put up a hell of a fight. Indoors is another story but that can be expected.

[staz]

<<<<< LOOK AT ME IM A SOLDIER! W00000

Yeh maxes are like uhm fine!

[darknight]

the sniper rifle is harmless to a MAX because it is not made for attacking vehicles.

[AcidCat]

There are many ways to deal with a MAX - cheapest is with your own AV MAX.

In my experience they are balanced and NOT in need of nerf.

[Nekota]

So does anyone know if those Jammer Grenades work? I thought they said that they do but, I've not used them but, not against taking one with me at the sacrafice of a couple mines or maybe some other folks would like to start carrying some so I can loot them :D .

[Led]

What really ticks me off is that almost no one uses NC maxes, whereas there are fifty jillion TR and VS maxes. I can only carry so many damn rockets.

[Lanizer]

I killed a max with a knife(with some help of course :))
and got 3 in a row with lancer. Oh yea you gotta take in consideration that they can only get one every so few minute.

[Jarlo]

MAX are fine, they trade off nice armor & dmg for a total lack of versatility. They cannot hack, cannot reapir, cannot heal, cannot gunner, cannot drive. And trust me, Lancer (VS AV weapon) shreds them big time! About 4 shots-- so 4 secs tops.

The solution of course is to have more soliders with AV weapons OR more soldiers in MAX.

[QuickStar]

ya , they are a little powerful :(

[MilitantB0B]

I don't have too many problems with MAXs. I just learn to not bite off more then I can chew. If I see 2 MAXs, I hide. If I see 1 MAX in all by himslef, I will try to get behind him and unload my cycler on him. Yeah it takes forever, thats why it is a good thing that they have really sucky mobility. I littereally circle strafed one to death with my cyclers AV rounds. When all was said and done, he was dead, I was a little banged up, and I had barely any ammo left. :) They are tuff to deal with, but not in need of a huge nerf. In my opinion, they should leave it as deadly as they are and just make Reinforced a prerequisite for all MAX suits. That way it makes it a little harder to get ahold of but nothing that will really "nerf" the MAXs. I don't want the big blokes to go the way of the dinosaur, they provide me with great cover! :D

[Zetre]

I have taken about 4 or 5 maxes out without AV weapons too. But those were some dumb maxes. and if you took one out with a shotty, He must have been REALLY STUPID. It takes 9 AP shells to take one down. That's about 10 seconds to empty the drum of shells, then a 2 or 3 second reload, and then another like 3 seconds of shotting. Anywho, if you want to give examples, i have one too. I took out 2 reinforced guys with AP miniguns down with my sparrow. Wow. This game should revolve around more that maxes. And right now, if you play it right, it really doesn't have to. 1 or 2 AA maxes, then half AV and half AI maxes, and then a few hacker/engineers, and you're unstopable. It would take a bunch of people in vehicles and AV guns like pheonixes to take your group down, probably more people than in your squad. Not to be a cocky punk, but none of you seem to play a lot. And if you do, then you're either a big ass leet, or a max slut yourself

[InuYasha]

Indeed they do make awesome cover, but sometimes they don't seem to last long enough. Ah well, perhaps I'll get my cert in anti-vehicular weaponry and start trashing those suckers with missiles. Or maybe a vehicle, running does suck after all...

InuYasha
Sad that somebody else took this name and forced him to use Sessho instead

[QKittie]

Yes, its true that MAX owns when everyone is a low BR infantry.

Considering how easy MAX is to get, and that 2x or 3x points are needed to combat them effectively, they are very good in the opening weeks of a server, like now.

That said, when your heavies are all multi-specced with special assault/reinforc/medica/engy certs, the maxes are not nearly so scary.

Common pool:

Thumper in mode 2 will bounce grenades off walls, you can dish some serious damage while backing around a corner or flight of stairs with a bouncing grenade spam

Decimator, although very tricky to hit with, will pop open a max like a can opener. Max is a 2-shot to decimator, every single time, no questions or exceptions. My pre-wipe heavy had 2 launchers at all times, and sometimes carried 4 in vehicle heavy or max heavy surroundings.

Maxes are fantastic at straight combat, but give up flexibility. When 95% of the population is below BR10, they are giving up nothing at all, making them appear even tougher than they already are. However, when the BRs crawl up a bit, say around 15 its a different story.

AV to soften up MAX at range, 2x heavy infantry with decimators and random people to distract/damage max. The difference for the flexible well balanced squad is that they can heal, fix armor, sometimes even rez, then plod on like the fight never happened. Even if you die, if your small grp of 3 max hunters lays even 1 decimator on a max, it is now a 1-shot for the next guy.

Sure, MAX are a challenge, no denying that. I'm now playing a support char and I miss my decimators more than any of the weapons I've used. On the other hand, there is nothing better than catching a max looking the other way, first decimator to get their attention, second one right down the front grill for the most satisfying kill in the game, imo.

QKittie

[Zetre]

i think all of you have yet to deal with max rushes. Having more than about 6 of them rush your base is insane. And sometimes people will just drop them onto bases. It's almost impossible to stop.

[Hife246]

Zetre.. there will be NO Nerf for MAXes.. they're fine the way they are.

[Nekota]

Here's the other drawback for most MAXs (I know we VS have a fast ass MAX). If the enemy is over-running your base to the north place a group to offer token resistance. Send other to capture another base to the south or send several squads to multi hack several bases at once. For as godly MAXs may be at fighting they can be a bitch to transport sometimes especially with only Sunderers and Galaxies able to transport them.

[Zetre]

hmmm,, that's a cool strat dude. That deserves a grand aplause. But hife deserves to be bitch slapped by ms. cleo. Dude, you're not a dev, and you're not a psycic. You don't even have beta hife. Please, either make intelligent posts on here, or go away

[Incubus]

The fact of the matter is, there is a counter for every weapon/armor in the game if you are smart enough to use it. Infantry with a suppressor against a AI MAX=Dumb. Reaver vs. AI MAX=Smart. Indoors? Decimator + surge > AI MAX. I think that the writer of this post simply gave up and didn't try any other methods or other methods available to his squad mates. I have walked up to a base where the entire 2nd tier was filled with enemy soldiers in standard armor, no MAXs no tanks. I posted up and opened fire. How many did I kill? 0

[FunkMasterFlex]

i think their armor is good to be, high, its why ppl shoudl use them, but then they have super chain gun, i think TR maxes are too tough

[Warborn]

Obviously I'm speaking from a skewed perspective, but there generally seems to be many more VS MAX units compared to TR and NC. Those VS love their MAX's here on Emerald, that's for damn sure.

Anyway, I don't think MAXs need a nerf at all. Using a Decimator you can, at close range, make short work of them, the possibility that you may totally miss at close range aside. Even without, a shotgun using AP bullets is nothing to sneeze at. Chances are you will die before you can unload the 24 or so good hits it takes with an AP shotgun to put the MAX down, but if you can get the MAX when it's distracted, you can inflict some serious harm. And, as you should know, at long range using a Striker, Lancer or Phoenix, MAXs don't have much to fight back with. Their weapons suck at a distance, whereas Empire-specific AV weapons excel.

Anyway, long story short, MAXs are a pain, but they're balanced as far as their effectiveness vs infantry goes. They sacrifice a lot to have that much power, and they have a respawn timer too. I may die to MAXs more than anything else as a grunt, but I really enjoy the challenge -- so long as we're not fighting a certain Empire which has flying purple MAXs (though that may be a bit better as of the latest patch).

[Incubus]

Also you have to take into account that when, as a MAX, you come up to a locked door, you just aren't getting in. There is no way to jump out of your suit and open the door. Whereas any soldier can just open it and go in. There are so many angles that Zetre (nm?) just hasn''t taken into account.

[Incubus]

Originally posted by Zetre
Anywho, if you want to give examples, i have one too. I took out 2 reinforced guys with AP miniguns down with my sparrow. Wow. 1 or 2 AA maxes, then half AV and half AI maxes, and then a few hacker/engineers, and you're unstopable. It would take a bunch of people in vehicles and AV guns like pheonixes to take your group down, probably more people than in your squad. Not to be a cocky punk, but none of you seem to play a lot. And if you do, then you're either a big ass leet, or a max slut yourself

:huh:

[Saethan]

They're only powerful right now because of the recent character wipe. Let people get higher BR and the complaining will lesson. The complaining had almost stopped about them right before the wipe, personally my br16 had about 100 max kills while he had 250 agile kills. Not a bad ratio.

[�io]

I think they are fine but there is a need for balancing somewhere, right now the armored (vehicles + MAX) category consists of like 30% MAXs 25% Reavers 25%Heavy tanks 25%the rest. :ugh:

[Vash]

I'm tired, so I'll probably be echoing other posts. I'll also start rambling as well, so be prepared for this to go on longer than it needs to :p


I'd say MAXes are pretty well balanced, I'd say. The TR MAXes might need a wee bit of tweaking still, but even they're far from invincible.

You say out of your "huge mass," you had no MAXes yourselves? What about anti-armor infantry?

The fact of the matter is, MAXes fall quickly against the prepared. The empire-specific weapons excel at knocking them out at range, while the decimator, which everyone has access to, is the single fastest MAX killer in the game.

Also keep in mind the MAX armors have 5 minute respawn timers. So sure you and your buddies might die assaulting a wall of MAXes, but guess what? You're back in the action in about a minute. There's no timer on your reinforced armor or your rocket launchers. All you have is a short respawn timer, a couple seconds to rearm, then a short run back to the action, depending on how close your AMS is (you DO have an ams, right?).
Your constant pouring into the base (as a TEAM) will have them attrited pretty quickly.

Certs arent exactly hard to get a hold of either, you know. You can get up to BR3 in 10 minutes without actually fighting anything. That's 6 cert points total. Getting to 5 can be done easily in a casual, solo evening. Getting to 8 is also a simple matter for your first night if you're in a good squad that's seeing some heavy action. That's 11 cert points for Medium Assault, Reinforced Armor, and either Anti-Vehicular or Special Assault with points left over for a support cert or a vehicle...

...which brings me to my next point. MAX pilots give up a lot for their armor and firepower.
They cant heal themselves or repair themselves. They cant lay turrets, mines or even clear their own path through said mines.
They cant hack a base or any terminals, let alone doors. They cant drive or ride any vehicles, except the galaxy or sunder, both of which require specific bases to be held to gain access to.
And with the exception of TR chaingun MAX, they cant efficiently engage targets outside of their specialization either.
Not to mention the fact that they cant be spawned at an AMS...

They're also very easy to overwhelm, given their turn speed. Two prepared soldiers can flatten a MAX by a coordinated assault. The single MAX will die so fast that the soldiers suffer little damage, or even none at all if the MAX pilot gets flustered even for a second.
Of course, even odds are more difficult, but equally so for both sides.
Three MAXes will do serious damage to 3 infantry, but god help them if the inf are prepared with decimators. If that's the case, 2 of the MAXes will likely fall almost instantly, but the inf will get whomped by the last one while swapping weapons. In circumstances like that, it's been my experience that winner is decided by sheer luck... like who opens fire first, or how much focused-fire the fight sees.

Aaanyway, my point is MAXes are not invincible... not by a long shot. They fill their role, and us regular infantry fill ours.
They draw fire, help us clear a room and cover us up while we hack.
In turn, we help them take out soldiers with anti-vehicle weapons, repair them and transport them.


Sorry if this was stupidly long. my mind wanders when I'm tired :p
Oh, and I'm not a "big ass leet" or a "max slut." :P~

[Led]

Tonight started well. My outfit squad trundled off to... I forgot. Oshur? Something like that. Anyways, at first we were running into well mixed vanu forces.

We completely ran them over (including bohica :angel:)

But as the night wore on... more maxes kept showing up.

And more maxes.

And then reavers! Oh God, I should have taken a shot of the swarm of almost a dozen vanu reavers over one base.

We would fight our way to a base CC, hack it, and then wait. Grease a few stealthers, odd max with infantry or two. Then as the cap time would draw near... a handful of maxes would always show up. Those would be disposed of easily. Then a few more maxes would show up. By now my phoenix rockets are long gone (I just unload them at the first proper target I see), and we are running low on decimators. The few vanu infantry coming along do not really have much, they must have been waiting on MAX timers. After we deal with THAT wave...

MORE show up.

We cry.

And die.

Then while running back from who knows where, we get run over by fifty jillion reavers.

!@^$#$#&!$$&!&*%@@

Terrans are okey to fight, I guess. They use a decent force mix... most of the time. The problem is, NC maxes blow so hard, no one uses them! So while we are trying to blast all these other maxes with soft infantry and losing lots of folks, the enemy infantry merrily rips us up since there are no maxes of our own to deal with them or slow down the opposing armor!

Getting really sick and tired of this crap. Almost every night now is ending with 'Well that was a waste, everything we fought for is long gone'.

[BladeRunner]

As a grunt, I used to fear MAXs. Then I got the Pheonix, and the decimator. Now I look for MAXs whenever I can. They're twice as much BEP.

There is no problem, please stop making really really weak and flamboyant arguments about 2 experiences you had.

It's really no way to gain a following.

[Indecisive]

*complains about the damn DC max's*

[Jarlo]

WTF is DC?

[Indecisive]

it took me a while to figure it out too hehe :D

DC = Dual Cycler MAX as in the Terran Republic lame ass Anti Vehicle max that does insane damage to both infantry and vehicles (max's as well) and never has to reload!

hey...that sounds like the mini chaingun 2...heh

[Knuckles]

WTF is DC?
The second member of the rock band AC/DC! :rock:

[simba]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}mistled

Considering that I took down a max yesterday in standard armor (don't ask why I was only in standard, I really don't know) with a sweeper shotgun, I'm not impressed with your argument to nerf them.
u took down a max? Well that isnt too good, couse maxes sucks.
Funny u brag about taking down ONE max and not the 20 infantry dudes who wasnt in a max suit.
I think maxes is overpowered, that means a newbie can take down a good player (MAX-newbie, reinforced:experienced player).
the thing is, one max player is ONE player, not 2 that requires to drive tanks and such, and ONE player in a specific armour that makes u have 6 times more armour and 2 times more weapons just doesent seem right 2 me when ur only ONE player that wears that armour.
And I think u shouldent have to have AV weapons just bcoz thats the only way to kill a MAX, AP should do more dmg imo.

[simba]

Originally posted by Jarlo
WTF is DC?
DickCleaner

[simba]

Originally posted by Jarlo
MAX are fine, they trade off nice armor & dmg for a total lack of versatility. They cannot hack, cannot reapir, cannot heal, cannot gunner, cannot drive. And trust me, Lancer (VS AV weapon) shreds them big time! About 4 shots-- so 4 secs tops.

The solution of course is to have more soliders with AV weapons OR more soldiers in MAX.
more soldiers with AV weapons!? GOD! Allready 90 percent of the ppl playing beta has AV WEAPONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SOE must be nutz, if u need 2 have AV weapons to kill a max theres no such thing as AP rounds.
SORRY.
I dont plan on carrying an AV weapon, I rely on my outfit 2 do that, but if everyone in PS must have AV weapons in this game
then I dont think it will be as good as it would with AP rounds possible.
AP ammo needs 2 do more dmg imo.

[simba]

Originally posted by Zetre
Not to be a cocky punk, but none of you seem to play a lot. And if you do, then you're either a big ass leet, or a max slut yourself
can I ask u a question?
How is it possible 4 u not 2 b a cocky punk when u say: "none of you seem to play a lot, then you're either a big ass leet, or a max slut" :confused:
just wondering.

[LesserShade]

There are a few things wrong with the way a lot of people think of the max. First off, it's a max, it can't do shit but shoot at stuff, can't cap CCs, can't drive, can't gun, can't open locked doors, can't repair itself, can't cloak, not to mention that it has 1 type of gun so it is the least versatile armor in the game. So if you come up against an AI max while in reinforced armor with an assault rifle you should get your ass kicked whether you have AP ammo or not.. it's perfectly fair for you to get owned.

Despite the fact that the max has no versatility, people still complain about the MAX being overpowered. If you carry an AV weapon or decimator, you should be able to take out at the very least 1 max before you die even in agile armor. What is unfair about only being able to kill 1 max?

And no I don't use MAX armor, I hate it. It is a huge waste of my time to even get in one because IMO you are too limited in what you can do. I am however a TR striker whore and I intentionally go after MAXs outdoors because they are easy kills.

[Warborn]

LesserShade:
I am however a TR striker whore and I intentionally go after MAXs outdoors because they are easy kills.

Hell yeah.

[Jarlo]

Hmmmm Lancer is sooo nice to against those gooey max :)

But yes the DC Max are incredibly powerful.

[simba]

6 times more armour, 2 times more powerfull weapons= kings of any defending squad inside aswell as out. Overpowered.

[SaltzBad]

Well who would use a max if its whole point, namely shooting at things, were nerfed? From what I've read, a MAX suit has no options - it shoots and it either kills or dies. Anyone else has a vast amount of options, from weapon loadouts through running from a fight and coming back with backup.

Not to mention the manpower ratios of those things - lets assume it takes the time of 4 infantrymen to put 1 MAX into battle - add an engi/medic because the MAX can't do that himself unlike standard infantry, and you have a 5:1 ratio - even if you were pessimistic and called it 3:1, 3 infantrymen still kill a single MAX.

It has more the effect of intimidating people than actually being overpowered, methinks. Shrugs.

[Ruthless]

MAXes are fine, but maybe they should only be spawnable in bases and not towers.

i got my decimator at br9 and ever since i stopped being scared shtless when i see a max, because they go dead fast with the decimator.

[darknight]

The MAX armor is for intimidation. Think of it like a World War II infantry man would think of a tank, "Uh oh, that is a big scary thing with big scary guns and scary thick armor, I better ask the guy with a bazooka to shoot it." Or the other way where the infantryman throws several grenades at it. When you look around the corner of a base, and you see a MAX standing there with its guns pointed at you head, your supposed to think,"Uh oh, I better use my big rocket launcher/laser cannon to kill it." A MAX is a handicap in doing anything except for killing people. So, shouldn't it be really GOOD at killing people? I think so. Like all "big scary" things, you have to treat it differently then just some regular guy.

[Arthell]

MAXs are overrated.

Whenever starting a new character i usually take the AV MAX (usually DC, since im usually TR) since they are the best bang for the buck at the earlier levels. Once more people get AV weapons, however, MAXs are almost a burden. At times i would much rather take a grunt over a MAX.

I'll second that Striker comment, though. If i see a MAX (even while inside) i go after it without a second thought.

On Ishunder (Emerald) the TR almost had a continent lock. The VS had one base left and one tower. I was the first TR to enter the tower and i saw 6 (!) MAXs on the stairs. We had 4 grunts and 1 AI MAX. I got two MAX kills, and the tower was taken pretty quick. :D

[Salizar]

It's funny how quick people are to pull out the nerf bat. Don't worry - Verant knows what they are doing. These types of games are continually being balanced and tweaked, but Verant won't simply nerf something without good data to justify the change - regardless of what the player community thinks. If Verant believes a change, whatever that change is, is good for the overall game mechanics they will impliment it.

But to come to the boards and scream "NERF" when it so obvious that you haven't even tried different tactics is just typical. You should go do some posting on the Wizards boards for EQ - you might actually find more support there.

[InuYasha]

MAX units are nice, crunchy targets. :D Especially those Terran ones, since they like to anchor themselves and turn into sitting ducks. The Vanu MAX units tend to be a bit harder to kill with my decimators, I might have to switch to the Phoenix if I'm going to fight them often. So far it's mostly been fights against the TR for me, though I wouldn't mind taking on some of those purple guys more often. I like seeing all those energy beams flying around the battlefield, much easier to follow than tracers really.

InuYasha
Wishing he had more time to play