Dual Pistols

[RUEN]

I was wondering what everyone would think of Dual Wielding pistols, perhaps it could be a Certification for like 3 cert points, and you atleast need Medium Assault to get it. I like the idea of having two pistols at once, I'd go for 1 AMP 1 MAG-Scatter. But, is there any reason people would be opposed to this? I doubt it'd be overpowering...

[1024]

I dont care if you use this, it wouldnt do that much more damage. Ill just use my jackhammer with surge implant and you wont know what hit you. :D

[RUEN]

Indeed

[Angelos]

I do think it'd be overpowering. Pistols do more damage than you think.

[RUEN]

They do, but for 3 cert points, i'm sure it will be balanced, like my friend said above, he could take me out with his Jackhammer (4 cert points) and Dual Pistols would cost 3 cert points. I doubt many people would use this if they wanted to do great damage, i can baerly see many people getting this cert. But for a Sniper in Agile, it'd be a great thing. The could carry their rifle, and two pistols... nice... plus it'd take the Med Assault to get this skill. And if it WERE too overpowering, than they could add a reduction in damage depending if you pull out 1 or more pistols. 1 pistol = reg damage 2 pistols= 3/4 damage of each... just an idea.

[Zenny]

Ya pistols are strong, I use the NC MAG-Scatter Pistol and it easily takes less then a full clip to down an agile, so imagine it with twice the power (two guns at once). I would only have to shoot 2 or 3 times to kill someone... :evildrop:

[NeoTassadar]

They would nerf the pistol CoF to balance, most likely.

[RUEN]

They would nerf the pistol CoF to balance, most likely.

That'd be fine too... I still don't see any reason not to do this, it's just adding another choice on the list for agiles who want to do more damage but only have 1 rifle slot. There are ways to balance it, as suggested above. Plus 2 pistols would look cool :cool:

[Deadlock]

i think thats a great idea... one of the coolest things about redfaction 2 (one of my fav console games...) is the double handgun option... as long as u kept it just hand guns it wouldn't be over powering.

however double cyclers, pheonixs, etc... would be too much. so i like this guys idea of two handguns.

although, i wouldnt want infl.'s to be able to do this. never played as one so i dont even know if they have the inventory to hold two pistols. but if they can, they shouldnt be allowed

[RUEN]

Yeah, see thats the beauty, Only Agiles and Reinforced would be able to do this, Infils only have 1 hand slot so they couldn't use 2 guns. And yeah, two of any other weapon would be outrageous. I was kinda surprised people aren't behind this idea as much. I'm sure this couldn't be as overpowering as oh... lets say... a DC MAX... so, no reason to object against this.

[NeoTassadar]

MAX=big target, and not enough armor to make up for it

[RUEN]

I'm not bashing the MAX, I'm fine with them, I feel they're as balanced as they're gonna get. But they only take 3 certs to get one (of course they sacrifice variety for it) and they're devestating. Just sayin dual pistols, i'm sure, wouldn't be as intimidating when you see someone with them as a MAX is. i used the DC max as an example because they can dual wield, and they dual wield assault weapons no less.

[NeoTassadar]

All depends on the person using it. My cousin knives MAXs to death. He's practicly a FPS god, though.

[Angelos]

Don't get me wrong, I've always liked dual pistols, but it just doesn't work here. In the beta forums the damage done by weapons was displayed. The beamer does just as much damage as the pulsar. Add another beamer and you have dual pistols doing twice as much damage as an assault rifle. That's unacceptable.

[RUEN]

Add another beamer and you have dual pistols doing twice as much damage as an assault rifle. That's unacceptable.

if that is the case, then my 3/4 thing would come into play, which would make dual pistols doing 1.5 as much damage as an assault rifle, and seeing as it costs 5 certs to get the pistols, and only 2 to get the assault rifle, i see no problem with that...

[NeoTassadar]

Plus there's the assault rifle's RoF.

[RUEN]

Yeah, that too, of course, i don't play vanu, so i don't know the beamer's RoF from the pulsar's. i can only assume the beamer is slower.

[Straynjer]

Think about RL. Why does someone choose a single weapon? Because you can aim easier. Why does someone choose 2 pistols in a gunfight? Cause they are the sheriff and a god. Use 2 weapons at a cost to accuracy - so alter the CoF as was noted before. Then it would really only become a significant advantage for indoor battles.

If the CoF was nerfed appropriately it wouldn't be unbalanced at all.

[Dharkbayne]

Think of how badass, that would be, all Matrix style, �io would love it, being "The One" and all, pull out ur cycler or whatever, empty the clip, and switch to 2 pistols and be like BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM MOTHERFU*KERS! BRING IT!! BOOM BOOM BOOM

[RUEN]

hell yeah! and as you said, alter the CoF, because... seriously, who can aim with two pistols at once? I still like the idea

[Straynjer]

Because this game has a CoF concept I think it will have much more flexibility in the nature of new weapons that we know will be pumped into the game at a splendid rate by the continuously funded game developers.




And look, I never said "better be" once. Except then of course.

[Angelos]

RoF can't be taken into account since you'd have two pistols. You don't fire both at same time, you alternate. So you can fire just as fast if not faster than the assault rifle.

AND I can aim with 2 pistols. You know those shooting games at the arcade? I pop in a dollar and use both guns. It seems to be one of the only things I can multitask on, shooting people.

[RUEN]

i don't know how fast you can pull a trigger, but im sure its not as fast as a fully-auto weapon... just a guess

EDIT: Angelos, hey just wondering if you still had the url for that weapons stats thing, or if anyone did for that matter, would like to see that. Thanks.

[Angelos]

It's in the beta forums in the gameplay feedback forum.

[Matuse]

AND I can aim with 2 pistols. You know those shooting games at the arcade? I pop in a dollar and use both guns.

Wow, being able to shoot 2 pistols that fire beams of light with no trigger pull weight, no kick, unlimited ammunition, and an extremely forgiving hitbox obviously means that you would be a master at a running firefight with real weapons. Clearly.

Fact of the matter is, trained professionals using one handgun in BOTH hands will miss a man-sized target past 15 feet most of the time in an actual firefight. Using 2 guns at the same time, and achieving any sort of useful accuracy is lovely fiction, but nothing approaching reality.

Would it work in the game? Sure. But what would be the point? Do you think someone in NC is going to take 2 mag-scatters over a single jackhammer?

[Angelos]

Who said I had unlimited ammo, no trigger pull weight, or no kick-back?

And I bet I could take a ton of guys out with two pistols in my hands past 15 feet. And there is "clearly" no way you can say otherwise mr fancy pants.

http://67.168.39.80/images/argue.jpg

[Stregone]

real guns have more kick than those time crisis guns :p

[obskure]

this is a great idea, dual wielded pistols would be nice for guys that like to go gung ho rambo style into bases :D

[Holo]

I think it sounds really cool, but as it's already been mentioned, you CoF would have to take a major hit, for both the purposes of somewhate realistic physics and to keep it on par with other weapons.

[Sp3ctre]

"You can't aim with 2 pistols"

Chow Yun Fat manages it in 'The Killer' :) only jokin (I recommend the film though!)

I know it would be stupidly overpowered but: pistol in one hand, grenade launcher in the other (Terminator 2 style!) would be cool. For Reinforced armour guys of course.

Oh yeah, can drivers of the open top vehicles shoot pistols whilst driving. Because most people can drive with one hand, so you might as well shoot with the other

[tmartinez72]

I think 2 pistols is a great idea. It would just makes it easier for me against those who would wish to waste their cert points!

Why bother with the 2 pistols when you can just get the full-auto amp? It's COF would be better than 2 pistols and the fire rate improved.

[Matuse]

And I bet I could take a ton of guys out with two pistols in my hands past 15 feet. And there is "clearly" no way you can say otherwise mr fancy pants.

I appreciate the fact that you feel your manhood has been impugned and that you may even really believe what you say here....but you aren't even remotely dealing with reality, and I would cordially request that you just stop.

[ASpeck]

dual pistols would be a little overpowered i think, but mainly for infiltrators, imagine and infil with 2 AMPS, that would tear up, unless we are talking about the pistols taking up both weapon slots instead of just one, like they do in unreal, but i guess thats different

[BlakkyZ8]

I was thinking that when driving one of the ATVs you should be able to perform driveby shottings with a pistol... Obviously an outrageous CoF would follow but it would be seriously cool.:cool:

[Incompetent]

I think they should put it in, with the massive COF it deserve's and insane reload times, just so i can mow down any idiot dumb enough to use it.

[tmartinez72]

Yeah, but they'd look SOO uber-1337 dieing.

[MilitantB0B]

Originally posted by ASpeck
dual pistols would be a little overpowered i think, but mainly for infiltrators, imagine and infil with 2 AMPS, that would tear up, unless we are talking about the pistols taking up both weapon slots instead of just one, like they do in unreal, but i guess thats different
You could solve that by making it take 2 pistol slots. :D
Personally, I think the7y could put it in without making it overpowered, but once they did, who would use it aside from the l33t mofo who wants style kills? It would be cool looking, but I doubt the practicality.

[DarkDragon]

Give Infils less inv space, another pistol slot and dual pistols :D

[RUEN]

this idea is more than do-able, that is, if the DEV team is looking for ideas. and certainly has its advantages. and the main reason i like this idea is because its applicability with agile. many people (snipers or anyone who likes driving/flying vehicles) know that you need agile for somethings that reinforced cannot do. as a sniper/mosquito pilot in agile, i only have one rifle spot (for my bolt driver) and two small slots, and i sometimes feel unsafe while runnin around, dual pistols would really help :)

[tmartinez72]

Originally posted by RUEN
edit.and i sometimes feel unsafe while runnin around, dual pistols would really help :)

That's built on the assumption would actually be able to HIT anything dual-weilding.

I myself rather hit with 1 bullet, than miss with 2

[Mold]

i like that idea. I think it would still be balanced because of the low amounts of ammo in a pistol, and the lack of range, plus the lack of a support pistol. But i think they should only allow this to work when you have 2 of the same pistols. Otherwise the alt fire wouldn't work.
But if they did make a way for 2 different pistols to be out at the same time and function independantly that would be a cool thing for medics, hackers, and engis to have so that maybe they could use their equipment without being as vrunerable. No mater what i think the COF should be nerfed for it if it did happen.

[ObnoxiousFrog]

2 Repeaters John Woo style would rock.

[TheAngelOfWar]

have any of you ever been attacked from behind by an inf with an amp? even in reinforced armor, its not a pretty site. you can usually turn and get a shot or two, but unless they are horrible at what they do, you're a goner. give em 2 amps and you wont even see the translucent sillouette before you find a respawn point.

[Sp3ctre]

Originally posted by ObnoxiousFrog
2 Repeaters John Woo style would rock.

Have you seen 'The Killer'? It's the best John Woo film ever

Well the CoF would be huge while moving, but standing still, it wouldn't be that hard to shoot people accurately (Not that I've tried it)

[RUEN]

TheAngelOfWar

have any of you ever been attacked from behind by an inf with an amp? even in reinforced armor, its not a pretty site. you can usually turn and get a shot or two, but unless they are horrible at what they do, you're a goner. give em 2 amps and you wont even see the translucent sillouette before you find a respawn point.

Did you even read this thread? the infiltrator only has ONE pistol slot! and as i said before, you would need TWO to use this skill (obviously) quit posting without reading...

That's built on the assumption would actually be able to HIT anything dual-weilding.

This is what i mean. The same amount of people think it would be underpowered as do think it would be overpowered... seems balanced to me. Not all people will want this because its not an ub3r skill and was never meant to be. It's just an idea for the few that would like it.

[Mold]

Why bother with the 2 pistols when you can just get the full-auto amp? It's COF would be better than 2 pistols and the fire rate improved.

so 2 amps wouldnt be better then 1?

[tmartinez72]

Originally posted by Mold
so 2 amps wouldnt be better then 1?

Nope, it would be worse. Can u imagine the cof of 2 amps?

Why miss your target with two amps when you can hit it with one amp.

The net damage effect misses of 2 amps is zero damage, while the net effect hit of one amp is much better.

[RUEN]

the CoF is damn near negligible at close range and indoors

[tmartinez72]

Not true.

With two pistols, you're working with convergence.

There's no auto-convergence in PS.

At close range, it'll be like that bugs bunny cartoon.

You know, were sammity sam shoots two pistols on either side of bugs because he's too close.

Or if you set the convergence too close, you couldn't hit anything past 5 feet. Why? Your convergence is so close that the bullets will cross each others path, and still go past your intened target on either side.

You are limited to one set distance before you can fire your weapons, or rely on your huge CoF to get a lucky hit.

[RUEN]

I don't know if you play Terran, but their Dual Cyclers seem to be able to pwn at close range and are fairly accurate at medium range.

[Shaftt]

Originally posted by RUEN
if that is the case, then my 3/4 thing would come into play, which would make dual pistols doing 1.5 as much damage as an assault rifle, and seeing as it costs 5 certs to get the pistols, and only 2 to get the assault rifle, i see no problem with that...

heh sounds good 2 me:D

[Destroyeron]

I would likedual pistols, and dual knives!

[FearTheAtlas]

Dual knives would be sweet..