New XP system... from a non-XP whore

[Pilgrim]

I honestly do not play this game for XP.

I get most of what I want by BR 5, and can get to BR 5 with a good squad killing folk in the world. Any BR after that is nice, but not really necesary to my enjoyment.

That being said... I understand why SOE made the xp change they did. I was sick of fighting with my squad to take a base, then over the course of the 15 minute deffence watching 60+ of my closest friends wander in for free xp. The XP change will force a first come first serve mentality, which will force people off overcrowded contenents and onto the lesser contested ones (if there are such things) Where they can lead the charge into a base instead of just tagging along. ATM a base that has been hacked on a connected contenent... by the connected empire, will have minnimum 30-40 people in it after the hack. Today I was leading a squad, and I swear we hacked 3 bases in a row, and watched the part vans move in.

Of course after a time, the deffender of that base is not going to even try anymore, why bother you can't cut through that many people... ever.

So to me much of the XP change is more of a deffence minded thing then anything else.

Deffence will now be eassie... perhaps too easy. Without the XP carrot many people won't sit around bored for 15 minutes. This will give the deffenders a far better chance of scraping clean the CC and getting the base back. This should stop much of the spam base caps that have been going on recently. (we locked ishunder... go us, we kicked all 12 of those guys butts!)

On the down side to this whole thing... I see the xp slow down, and it is not good. Are people going to time their entrance into a CC and wait for the HACK till 10 minutes has elapsed to get the entire 25 minute chunks? Are TK's on hackers going to re-emerge because your squad hasn't been there long enough? Will you be able to pay someone to do an ANT run for a depleting base?

So to me, and remember I care very little for xp... this is a minor change, my outfit and I fight in the field, and kill them on their way. Much more effective then waiting. And without a single cap we went from br1 to br6 in a few hours... even after the newest xp cuts.

I hope they change a few things here, just to make the ANT/GALAXY/Snipers/external harrassment force, mean something. But honestly then most XP you'll gain from a base cap is 3500... that's for 25 minutes of sitting thump incased. Spend that same time attacking the enemy as they move from one contested base to another. Add it up and see how much you get.

So I think this is a step in the right direction, but a step that didn't take all factors into consideration. Watch for this to get revised to help the support monkey's get their share, but otherwise... not a horrible idea.

Flame on :)

PAX

[ghost018]

First come, first serve? Was like that before and people got their panties up in a bunch because of TKers. Unlike you, I'm not satisfied with BR5 level of certifications. Being a Commander, it's usually important to get certed with a Galaxy, some sort of ground transport, and a whole lot of guns in order to lay down enough cover and support for your squad.

I used to think that all those people who said Planetside wasn't worth the money were crazy up until recently. But now that they've added this feature into the game, I'm not so sure anymore. C'mon, this would only serve to reward those who could care less about the people who are trying to acheive a certain level of cohesiveness(sp) within a Squad, Outfit, or even Empire. I mean, what's the real point in joining a squad anymore aside from sharing the experience from kills? When you get to a higher BR it really makes no difference whether or not squad member A killed enemy B to get you a whopping 13 bep.

[Airlift]

I start to get comfortable around level 10/1.

If they first reduced the number of points you get for a kill and second reduce the number of points you get for doing anything other than staying alive the longest in an SOI, they are not fixing what is broken. Of course, that's just my opinion.

[PeregineDive]

Not a bad post Hunter. I agree with you that the xp whore parties are annoying, as after you hacked a base, people start flooding in like mad to get the XP. But as a Gal pilot, this really sucks. I was with a squad tonight, we hacked 2 bases on Emisnar(sp?) and I barely made 1000xp total. Guarding towers is now worthless. Now I am not an xp whore, I like getting it, but the SOI doesn't even reach near any towers. And we have to defend them when we are attacking. I am br7, half way to 8. I will be happy once I get to 10 so I can get something besides medium assault. I really don't like the system so far.


-PD

[SuperGlue]

I'm not in beta so plz excuse me.

But I think this new exp system might help the zerging/recyclying effect that I hear about. With life being more precious it will make people pick and choose their moments. Also this will give more power to adv. medics. This is assuming that you still count as being in the SOI while lying dead on the ground waiting for revival. People will lay around a bit longer and ask for medic to revive them. This might help calm the people that hate the new system without trying it. Instead of losing a time slice by dieng and having to respawn, just lay around a bit and yell for a medic.
I am going to be playing medic so I hope my assumtions are correct :D




Flame away:love:

[ghost018]

Zerging isn't really that big of a problem anymore, at least from what I've seen. The respawn times have been upped, so pretty much you need to wait between 30 seconds and a minute before you can respawn, depending on how often you die.

[Rainer]

Zerging is problem now but its not offense its defense now :(

[Pilgrim]

Just played for the last 2 hours or so...

Got with a good squad and we fought our little panties off for 2 bases... for all our efforts we got a grand total of 1300 xp...
Plus an additional 2-3k in kill xp.

gotta say it does suck.

In the good ole days.. like at 5pm I woulda gotten around 5000 on the base caps and the others. I guess this just happened because of the fact that there was a wipe less then a week ago... and people are allready BR14 or higher.
I think this is a bit of an overcorrection, but it will adjust up... hopefully.

I also realize this totally screws commanders. Don't get me wrong... not for lame new XP system, just think it's a step and will hopefully develop into a better way of getting base caps.

As for life being more precious... hehe I don't think so. People still ran about in an insane fashion. Chickens all of us!

So as of tonight... same fight, same ammount of time, 1/5 the xp... not really worth it.

(BTW not being an XP whore, doesn't mean you don't like it, just means it's not why you play. I look forward to my next BR when I get to add to my list of things I can do... but it's in the play that I find my enjoyment. sitting in an overcrowded base while 10 year olds shoot everything is not my idea of a good time.)

[Angelos]

Zerging is only present if the other empire doesn't show up. And then it's not intentional at all. Zerging is not a problem.


I'm with Hunter. I get comfortable at 6/1. Yeah, I can do more at 20/5, but do I need it to help the squad? Remember, you are just one piece to the puzzle. I think you missed that ghost. You wanted everything, because you thought you needed it as a commander. You don't. A gun and a gal would do just fine, you can still be a commander. Remember that a squad of 10 people means you can have everyone play a different role, you don't have to be 3 roles in 1. That's why us non-xp whores are comfortable within a day or two of playing. At BR6 I have 9 certs. That gives me heavy assault with reinforced armor. Someone else in my squad can handle transport, and I KNOW other people will have transport. If I choose to, I can trade in the reinforced armor for a vehicle. Most vehicles don't allow reinforced armor to drive them anyway, so it'd be usually useless if I had a vehicle. So at BR6 I'm even flexible with my certs.

[Saethan]

I never get all the certs I want until around br 15. :-O But I'm weird.

[Cairo]

This is a terrible patch IMO. Im not an XP whore either, i could care less. What i want is a patch that doesnt reward XP whores by sitting around doing nothing for 10 minutes meanwhile 3 other bases are hacked :sick: . I understand rewards for defending but is it just me or is it sad to have a base clearly well defended enough and to just have everyone around sitting so they can get their precious XP. Something needs to be implemented to change or prevent this. :(

[Holo]

A few weeks ago it was a bunch of people saying "slow xp gain down! it's too easy to get BR20, it takes like 2 weeks... there's really no reason to play after that."

Now it's "omg xp gain is too slow, now it's gonna take forever to get BR20"

Decide what you want people... Personally, I think it's a great thing that now it's going to take considerable time and effort to reach the upper ranks... but that's just me

btw, I do think something needs to be done in the way of screwing over the transport and ANT drivers... that's kinda crappy. Other than that, I think it's a good thing that new levels are gonna take a lot more work to attain, at least you won't be BR5 after only a few hours of playing... 1/4 of the way to the top.

[Airlift]

I'm not an exp whore, I'm an exp pimp, and it is time to set some SOE bitches straight :D

http://www.clanstfu.com/images/expwhore.jpg


Edit: On a serious note, Holo.. Have you ever considered that there might be more than one person or group of people that feel differently about it? The people who complained that exp was too quick were the ladder bitches. The people complaining now are the ones who want to play a FPS.

[Hamma]

This is a bad move, it needs to be fixed. Catering to the RPG croud is a very bad move, becaue generally FPS folks and RPG folks want completly different thinks. You are gonna need to pick one, or the other. There were "RPG" elements prior to this patch. Now it becomes a leveling treadmill.

[BlehBlehAmiga]

Holo, I think it's different camps of people. The people who want an RPG and want levels to mean something more, want level 20's to beat level 1's without a fight were saying leveling was too slow.

People who treat this as a hardcore fps don't care about level very much and that's all find and dandy.

People who are mostly FPS but a little RPG want to be able to level to a certain point at least relativly quickly, say BR 10 so their char is to a point of being complete. Afterwords levels are mostly just options.

Then of course it's the principal of the thing. The biggest punishment of this system is support classes, why should the grunt who stays in the SOI get rewarded more than the guy defending the tower so the grunt can capture the base? Or the transporter who got them there? Or the guy making the ANT run? Or the sniper on the hill taking out just as many people from outside the SOI?

This same system with group xp instead of individual wouldn't be so bad. Combine that with a little bonus for defending and it all balances out. Increase the XP curve post BR 10 or so and it slows down leveling, but people can still get reinforced, a weapon speciality and a vehicle, or some other basic combination before slowing down.

[Revelation]

From what I've read from Sony, this game isn't about BR, but about the fighting of a war.

if that's the case, why bother making it take longer to hit br20? A br1 can kill a br20, very easily. it's not about HP/MANA, it's about skill(to some extent) and the people you run with.

I actually liked the way exp was before the lattice was put in, but i hated musical bases. Twist and Smoke have said numerous times that the real war doesn't start until people are BR20. Well, why make it take longer?

[Spinnaker]

I too am not in beta but just to remind you guys that are in beta, IT IS BETA AND YOU ARE MEANT TO BE GUINE PIGS, on that note stop bitchin your job is to tell devs whats wrong dont tell us tell them so when i play i wont have problems... take care, and dont tell em things that are wrong in (beta) because it's (beta) the testing ground, it's meant to have mistakes, thats why you were picked


I LOVE YOU PLANETSIDE UNIVERSE!:love:

[Kikinchikin]

yes I am personally am a mix of the two. I feels good to level up. im at level 8 and feel that i can make a good difference in my team. Although when i get to level 10 i will feel almost complete, everything elese will be bonuses. (hacking, maybe reaver, or another MAX). at level 10 ill be buying reinforced armormaking my combo complete in my mind. (medium assault, max pounder, sniping, wraith and reinforced. Next on my list would probably be hacking, maybe reaver or a galaxy or even a prowler. but those are things i can live witout. ill feel like im a well rounded character at 10. however thats not saying that i wouldnt like to get to level 20. thts 10 more points. thats enough for advanced hacking and a reaver. i'd be very happy then... :D.

yes part of me(the exp whore part) says that it was fine the way it was. the other part says this should be tweaked up. it is definitely too hard to level now. make it somewhere in between, perferably closer to waht it used to be. thanks.

6 days and counting.

[Cranerat]

Just started Beta a few days ago and I am still getting used to the game. But, there needs to be something done about the support people not getting exp if they are not in the ZOI and are part of a team.

The Gal pilots cannot stay in a hot zone with the aircraft empty waiting for others to return, not to mention the ANT drivers far off coming from a warp gate, much less snipers out and about solo with no back-up.

This needs to be addressed to maintain play balance, otherwise, why would anyone want to do these jobs as part of a team. An assault force is exciting to be a part of, but the other elements are needed too. They are all viable skills and much needed to advance the variety of gameplay. Not rewarding them as part of a whole team effort just because they are too far away isn't right.

I also think that giving the person Hacking the base all the exp and not the squad he/se is attached to will begin to remove the other elements from units, as everyone will want that BIG bonus for capturing the base. this is ludicrous, everyone in a team is part of that team and all are doing something to earn an equal share. Reward them for being a team player.

[BlehBlehAmiga]

Spinnaker, by posting here we can come up with ideas to let the devs know. We know we're in the beta, if nobody talked about it then we wouldn't be doing our jobs :)

Sure mindless bitching doesn't help much, but you'll get that anywhere. Most people make good points.

[Pilgrim]

Spinmaker

We post here because the beta boards are not a place to have a discussion. It's pretty much not possible. So to get intelligent and good discussion I use PSU (as do many others) any ideas I've had went into the appropriate forum on the Beta... but here we can bounce around and not be competing with 2000 other posts at the same time.

On another note... I think I wouldn't mind this system at all if they'd raise the XP for kills back up... frustrating killing a MAX for 150 xp... or an inf for 35. Not to mention killing vehicles. But stomping the bad guys is sorta the point... so make bases worth less and kills worth more. Makes a good squad of killling machines even more valuable then ti allready is... Anyone have any thoughts?

PAx

[Tatter]

Disclaimer: Just joined the beta when they opened up FilePlanet. Some of this may already be in game.

Some ramblings to how to maybe make it better, or fair. Feel free to grab something and twist it, if it would make more sense.

1. Capping a base nets a fixed amount of exp depending on type of facility; base, tower, lab, etc.

2. Exp is squad shared depending on squad size and a majority location in regards to SOI.

2a. Squad has to have at least 5 members to be enabled for exp sharing.
2b. The majority/half of the squad must be in the base SOI at hack completion to get base capture exp.
2c. If majroity/half of squad is present during the entire last 5 minutes of hack, get a small bonus of exp.
2d. If majority/half of squad is present during the entire last 10 minutes of hack, get and additional small exp bonus.
2e. No bonus exp for starting a hack. (TK reason)

3. Fighting exp during a cap attempt nets a exp adjustment as follows.

3a. If killer is in SOI of hacked base when target dies, small exp bonus. (middle)
3b. If killer is outside of SOI but target is in SOI, small exp bonus. (smallest)
3c. If both killer and target are in SOI, small exp bonus. (highest)
3d. Bonuses are not cummulative.

4. During a hack, the following actions net an exp bonus to the individual only while in SOI:

4a. Revive a person (small)
4b. Supply energy by way of ANT (bigger than revive, but in proporation to amount of energy added to base)
4c. Repair armor or base equipment (Based on amount of repairing done, but not greater than ANT task)
4d. Healing a player (Based on amount of healing done, but not greater than ANT task)

5. All bases should have a large SOI, including towers, labs, etc. Alot fo fighting occurs a fair distance from any given base.

This attempt to spread the wealth a bit. I have no idea how big the current SOI is, but it should be fairly large. At least as far as having LoS with the base when max view distance is used.

Rip apart at your pleasure. :)

[Whacko]

I am still baffled into the meaning of this patch......Basically I enjoy both sides.....rpg/fps but I agree with most people around that the system blows bean soup!

I mean come on medics/engineers don't get crap for healing/repairing.....WHY?

and what about the actual thrill of defending towers?......

IMO it seems that once again things look bleak......
Simple solution...increase the amount of certs...maybe add more levels, add more weapons add some dynamics to this game!
sheeesh make a squad earn their keep.....increase spawn timers,,,,,, but reward people for attacking/defending /repairing/healing/re-supplying...don't turn this game into a big CF,

[Airlift]

The worst part of this newly implemented system is that it rewards you for NOT killing the enemy. The longer you share a SOI with the bad guys before and during a cap, the greater the value of each time slice. We can all get the best exp under this new system by peacefully cohabitating the SOI and rotating ownership every 15 minutes when the hack goes through. If this needs to be illuastrated to the developers, all it would take would be a bit of coordination between volunteers from two empires on the web. The new system would collapse in a happy circle of kumbaya.

[Kikinchikin]

LOL yeah this system really does suck. do you guys think the devs will change it???

[Hamma]

I'm guessing after the huge outburst they saw, yes. I hope so anyway.. its a bad idea to change teh game like this in the final days of beta.

[tmartinez72]

LOL! I was already laying out the plans for this exploit. Getting together with another outfit on the other side.


Originally posted by Airlift
The worst part of this newly implemented system is that it rewards you for NOT killing the enemy. The longer you share a SOI with the bad guys before and during a cap, the greater the value of each time slice. We can all get the best exp under this new system by peacefully cohabitating the SOI and rotating ownership every 15 minutes when the hack goes through. If this needs to be illuastrated to the developers, all it would take would be a bit of coordination between volunteers from two empires on the web. The new system would collapse in a happy circle of kumbaya.

[Tieom]

Perhaps they should seriously increase the amount of XP you get for a 'full' (25 minutes, max amount of enemies) basecap, up to double or triple, so capping a base will give you around the amount of XP it did before (3.5k) most of the time. But if it's a big, long battle then you get monster XP from it (10k, booya!) when the base is haxored.

[firecrackerNC]

i personally hate this new xp system,i fought my way to the CC with only 3 enemys i killed and ended up getting 164 xp for base cap,i mean im not uber,i cant kill 30-50 enemys just to get some xp,just my thoughts

[obskure]

Originally posted by Hamma
This is a bad move, it needs to be fixed. Catering to the RPG croud is a very bad move, becaue generally FPS folks and RPG folks want completly different thinks. You are gonna need to pick one, or the other. There were "RPG" elements prior to this patch. Now it becomes a leveling treadmill.

I don't think it could be put much better than that.

[Holo]

The patch seems flawed yes, I do think it will lead to more camping and people just hiding in bases to leech off the xp, and I also don't approve of the fact that all those support classes get screwed over. But I do think it's a step in the right direction in slowing down BR gain, it just seemed absurd before, people saying they'd get BR20 in a couple of weeks doesn't sound very appealing either.

Now, granted, I'm not in Beta, but I have done a fair amount of reading on all these subjects so I'm not totally ignorant :)

But if there's something I'm totally missing just let me know about it ;)

[Plato]

This new system was definately not thought through carefully. But hell this is beta. They will just have to fix it before I'll buy the game though.... The previous XP system was great other than the tendancy to make people camp hacked bases-

Now they screw the support personnel and reward more base campers..

A screw up this big when the release date is so close is certainly a shot in the foot for the devs.

[Airlift]

See, that's the problem. You look at getting to level 20 as an accomplishment, when really it has nothing to do with the game. Levelling up is ancillary and should be far away from your mind when playing. You play to beat down the other guys. You want to take their bases away, and frag them in creative and funny ways. You want do deny them tower spawns (and relish the guilty pleasure that is spawn camping). You want to destroy their AMSes and leave all their equipment terminals in shambles. You must take away their tech plants so the bitches can't make tanks and reavers and sunders on continent. You need to punch holes in their lattice so they don't know where to fight next. Destroy that loaded galaxy and go back to crush the cowards who jumped in time. Join 100 of your closest friends and zerg that enemy dropship center to ground the local forces. Fight tooth and bloody nail until you have finally overcome the last base and tower that your enemies can claim as their own. That's the game, not getting to level 20. Any chump can do that, with enough time.

Here is a mantra that will help you get the right mindset:

Experience is not the game
Experience is a byproduct of the game
Experience is not my goal
Experience is gained by reaching my goals
Levels do not make me uber
Being uber will give me levels

Just sit in a dark room and chant that for a few hours a day while you wait for the game. Hopefully, the devs will buy back into this (their old abandoned mentality) and leave behind their recent changes in favor of the great truth.

[Tieom]

Airlift, I believe you may have to undergo extensive surgery so you look like a Dev and plant these ideas of yours from the inside.

[Airlift]

All I'm saying is what the devs have more or less always said. Anyway, I suspect the system will be improved, and I hope it will be in favor of faster levelling in general, if not necessarily as fast as a loaded zerg before the patch. That was the real problem, everyone realized that the best experience was gained by more or less marching in a giant mass from base to base, killing enough uniques to dole out max points for every cap. The generally good exp system was exploitable by one activity that is already really fun without the added incentive. I tested (read as played) the zerg parade quite a bit, all you had to do as a squad was kill one person to get the credit for unique kills. There's your bug right there.

Fix that by saying your squad (SHARED, please) only gets experience based on their unique kills. But don't just ignore killing the same person every time he loads back up, count that like 1 unique credit for every 5 times you kill someone after the first.

[edit] Deleted rambling half-thought

[vawlk]

I don't get why people don't realize that they make the XP track fast during beta so that they can see people test out the later levels of the game and balance it.

If you didn't think they were going to severely crank back the flow of xp, then you need to get your head checked.

The devs already have an idea on how long they want the average player to spend at each BR. Personally, I like the # of point given..nice and slow. When i see a BR10/CR4 I know he's pretty experienced...unlike the weekend gamers earlier in the beta.

However, I don't like how the points are given. They do screw some important roles out of XP. They should combine the last two systems. Pool all the IN-SOI timeslice points in to a squad pool then distribute them evenly after the hack. Out of SOI don't accumulate points for the group. That way the ANT/SNIPER/Galaxy driver can still get their points for doing their out-of-SOI roles.

That will solve all the problems. If someone took 6 guys and put 1 in 6 different bases during a hack. Each person would accumulate all the points possible for a hack but would have to share them with the other 5 people on the continent. They'd basically end up with 6*1/6=1 base cap. No matter how hard you try you wont succeed.

[vawlk]

Airlift, you rock.

I just play the game to beat down the rest. BR and CR levels are just bonuses.

All you FPS players putting too much emphasis on such a small part of the game.