Infantry weapon balance, my take

[Knuckles]

Hi folks

I�ve got some spare time on my hands, since I�m sitting in Europe, waiting for the beta. Thought we�d discuss weapon balance for infantry. I played for VS during beta and I�ve tried to draw conclusions from what I saw in game, and what I�ve heard from others (or read on message boards).

So here�s my take on each faction specific weapon:

Pistols

1) MAG-Scatter (NC): One word: BOOM! High ROF, high damage. Clear winner.
2) Repeater (TR): Good all around gun. Good range and ROF.
3) Beamer (VS): Nope. Low range and its ROF just plain suck.

Medium Assault

1) Gauss (NC): Very good range and (still) extremely good precision (COF).
1) Cycler (TR): ROF! The damage output is the killer here.
3) Pulsar (VS): No! Lacks both ROF, COF and punch. Just no!

I found it to be a tie between the Gauss and the Cycler. They are both very good weapons but shine under different circumstances. In all circumstances I got out shot using the Pulsar. Long range, medium range and short range � didn�t matter. My only chance was if I had the element of surprise.

Anti Vehicle

1) Lancer (VS): Wonderful and quite versatile weapon. Can be used for pretty much anything � AV/AI/AA. Very good COF, ROF, range and projectile speed. Eats a bit of ammo, but it sure does the job� and it creates no missile lock warnings, which seems to be a huge drawback for the competition.
2) Striker (TR): Very close second. Its missile lock really seems to work quite well, and it packs a punch.
3) Phoenix (NC): The dethroned champion of early beta. I saw people missing a lot with this weapon, even on stationary targets. Seems range got nerfed too.

Heavy Assault

1) Jackhammer (NC): Every time I went up against someone with this gun I went �uh-oh�. I knew that I�d probably be watching the respawn bar in a few seconds. It�s its ability to make fast, distinctive, kills that makes this weapon stand out. BAM (Instantly switch to second mode) BAM-BAM-BAM! Rack in the points. If I�d abandon VS for anything, it would be for this weapon.
2) Mini-Chaingun (TR): Good range, good COF and Godly ROF. I cringed every time I heard it�s distinctive sound.
3) Lasher (VS): Never tried this myself but I asked around and very few thought this to be worth the 4 points it took to get it. I still think it needs its projectile speed upped somewhat and/or a damage increase. Also the lashing effect is too minor to make any bigger impact.

All over winner � NC with 6 points.
Second comes TR with 7.
VS finishes last with 10.

(I know that this has been covered over, and over again, and I apologise if You find this thread to be in the dead horse category, but I thought it would be a good idea to discuss it now that beta is over and done with, and the weaponry ought to be balanced.)

[tok1m]

its a lie... VS pwnzorz ALL!!!

[MilitantB0B]

Hmmmm, I see alot more VS causing havoc with my squads then I ever saw NC. Maybe I am looking in the wrong place, but I don't cry for VS.

[Destroyeron]

I think many people underestimate the Vanu. SOme people are good fighters with those types of weapons. When I get into game, I truthfully am gonna be more worried about the VS then NC.

Unlike those people that are good with Vanu weapons, I on the other hand, LOVE machine guns. :D (once took out 20 snipers in a row with my machine gun in MOHAA :D )

I'm a machine gun freak.

[Shadowsword8]

I played only NC during the beta, but I looted occasionaly, and I tried every rifle and AV weapon, except the lancer...

Pistols: The MAG-Scatter is the best, only at very, very close ranges (less than 2 meters). However, the only ppl who use pistols are cloakers...

Rifles: The Gauss is fairly accurate for the first 2 bullets, but after that, the recoil make the COF big. Except at very long range, the cycler is a hell of a lot better, and even the pulsar is very close. The pulsar is better at medium or close range, because of far less recoil. Advantage for the pulsar: the time needed to switch AA/AI ammunitions is imediate, and it's very usefull when you turn a corridor to find yourself on the path of a MAX.

AV weapons:

Lancer: Far to effective against infantry. 2 hits are enough to kill a guy in agile armor, while the same guy would stay upright after 4 phoenix hits.

Striker: Effective, high punch, high RoF, it's only default is the missile lock warning... Every time I see a TR with a stryker I try to loot him.

Phoenix: It's still not too difficult to hit even a moving target with the missile, and the target don't have missile lock alarms, but it has 3 huge defaults:
-The speed of the missile is almost equal to the max speed of a reaver who don't use his afterburners. If you're right behind a fast moving reaver or mosquito when you fire, don't even try, it's a waste of time and ammos.
-WHen you're guiding the missile, you're a sitting target.
-Thirrd, the worst of all, It has only one ammo in magazine, and you don't reload when you're guiding the missile. The reload time is fairly slow. Consequence: by the time a phoenix user hit 2 times a target, a stryker user will have scored 6 hits... Phoenix and stryker punch seems to be equivalent...

[Plato]

I've played only TR so far and I've tried quite a bit of looted NC stuff.

TR Cycler is a fantasic all-round weapon as far as range goes. It snipes, it sprays, it's get for taking down multiple targets up close. It's only drawback is the ammo consumption.

NC Gauss is cool, don't need to carry as much ammo and I love the extra inventory space. It has fair kick to it that takes some getting used to. It's main draw back is up close and personal where you have to make as many bullets count as possible in your 30 round clip.

TR Striker is very nice. I don't leave home without it as I hate being hounded by a Reaver or being assaulted by Max units and being helpless. Many Reavers escape before I can reload and hit them the forth and final time. I love it when I'm out in the open and a Reaver shows up and starts pounding me as I slip behind a tree and whip it out. Picked the wrong guy.. :) Around bases it clears the skies of those buzzards real quick too. Think twice before you shoot a Vanguard with it tho..I normally end up roadkill...

NC Phoenix I tried it a few times recently and the rockets are slow, couldn't tell how powerful they are but when you're under fire you don't want to have to pop out, fire and get killed while guiding the rocket. They don't turn fast enough and the range sucks...

Just my take on some of the weapons...

[King0liver]

The AV setup right now is complete bullshit. The Lancer is a god weapon, able to take down 3 agile infantry with 1 clip, and invoke around 1200 armor damage per clip (200 per shot). (around 1.5 max kills) The lancer is also sniper accurate, and the VS shouldnt even use the real sniper rifle because the Lancer is better. The Striker luckily is only good against vehicles and MAXs unlike the poorly balanced lancer, and can do 750 armor damage per clip. (1 max kill) The pheonix is also worthless against infantry like all AV weapons should be, but each missile does only 300 armor damage per hit, and it has a 1 shot clip. (2 clips/max) Clip reloading on all 3 are about the same at 2-2.5 seconds. In conclusion the lancer needs nerfage, mainly against infantry, and the pheonix needs more damage per hit because of the incredibly slow refire rate/missile.

[DarkDragon00]

Cycler by far is the best medium assualt weapon. I think u need to fix that. The chaingun got nerfed pretty bad. U have to stand in their face and press the trigger to get the kill. Lasher is a very good weapon, it should be tied for second with the chaingun.

The cycler has the highest range and biggest clip capacity. It also has great accuracy and very good damage. The Gauss is powerful but is better suited for medium range. U can snipe with the cycler, u cant with the gauss. Im not touching the pulsar, i never played Vanu!

[King0liver]

The true ratings, not the ones by the complete moron who started the post.

Pistol (doesnt matter for most intesive purposes and should not have any weight)

All 2 pt weight categories are esential to gameplay.

Rifle (1 pt weight)
1 Cycler: Best damage/sec and cof
2 Gauss: pretty close to cycler
3 Vanu: lacking in everything

AV (2 pt weight)
1 Lancer: god weapon
2 Striker: perfectly balanced
3 Pheonix: nerfed to hell

H Assualt (1 pt weight)
1 Jackhammer: now the best close combat weapon
2 Lasher: very good at medium/short AI
3 Chaingun: only point blank...

MAXs (2 pt weight)
1 Vanu: complete animals, best special ability no question
2 Terran: good in select situations
3 NC: max sheild is worthless, guns are alright though

Vehicles(2 pt weight)
1.5 NC: best against infantry
1.5 Vanu: magrider best at tank vs tank fighting
3 Terran: nerfed version of NC vehicles

Conclusion:
NC: 18
VS: 12
TR: 19

Vanu need slight nerfage, mainly the lancer, but game balace for most part is equal

[MiP]

I only played Vanu so I don't have too much to add.

Pistols are important and the Beamer is complete crap. I was in brand new reinforced armor and an e cloaker with surge implant came charging at me out of thin air. Scared the hell out of me and he killed me before I fired off a single round. Definately should have that in a ps promotional video!

When I played as an infiltrator I tried twice (and failed in both attempts) to shoot an enemy to death. Completely undetected I sneaked right up behind and started firing point blank, but the ROF is sooo slow. Both times they were able to turn around, switch weapons, and kill me. The beamer is a waste of inventory space.

I only had two days of being in the Vanu AA max suit, but it was awesome! Good pilots bug out as soon as they see a missile lock warning, but there are plenty of bad pilots to take down. They seem to think that if the missile lock goes away briefly then they are safe. I just love watching all those little balls of death take sharp turns when I re-acquire the target. The jumpjets really play hell with the NC/TR pilots aim as well :D

[Knuckles]

The true ratings, not the ones by the complete moron who started the post.
Oh thank You, King0liver.

You basically rehash what I just said (well You upped the Lasher one position, I give You that), add Your info on MAXs and Vehicles, which was not intended to be part of the thread in the first place, and then call me a moron? :huh:

No cookie for You!

/bird

[LesserShade]

^ROFL.. yeah i thought the same thing.

Anyway, nobody is giving love to the best pistol in the game, the repeater. You don't have to get up in someone's face to use it. I mean, the thing almost has the range of the suppressor. I try to keep one on me as a backup in case i'm in a fight where my target and I have to reload at the same time. The range on the repeater has save me a bunch of times.

The mag-scatter is probably the best pistol for indoor infiltrators though.

[King0liver]

I realize your first ratings were based on only infantry, and the lasher was not the only difference in mine, you failed to add any balace weight to the categories. I took the time to include everything so dont flame on that, people should see the overall balance. As for pistols, which really only apply to infiltrators, the least crucial role in the game, the effect they have on battles is statistically negligible, and they should not have the same weight as lets say an antivehicle weapon. Pistols as sidearms are almost worthless as well in that reloading times and weapon switching times are almost the same. Im not saying they arent used, just that they dont affect the outcome of battles

[Streamline]

Originally posted by Knuckles

1) MAG-Scatter (NC): One word: BOOM! High ROF, high damage. Clear winner.

False!!! High ROF??? Mag-Scatter? You ever used one. And used one alot? It does not have a high ROF. It has a wider spred and less range. The other flaw is it uses shotgun ammo. I see corpses all the time where they got the pistol but no ammo. They either A. Don't like the pistol enough to stock ammo for it. Or B. They are total retards that picked up the wrong ammo when they loaded out. Every NC stealther i've ever encountered has used the AMP or a repeater.

Repeater owns. I got a locker full of 'em.

[Winged_Nazgul]

Originally posted by King0liver
Pistol (doesnt matter for most intesive purposes and should not have any weight)

Translation: I couldn't be bothered trying out the pistols so I have no idea which one is better.


MAXs (2 pt weight)
1 Vanu: complete animals, best special ability no question
2 Terran: good in select situations
3 NC: max sheild is worthless, guns are alright though

The Vanu might have the best special ability but the TR DC MAX is, hands down, the best MAX in the game. Accept no substitutions.

[Banditman]

You guys really need to read Chavr's test data on the different weapons. He did an excellent job and the information he collected is nothing but facts collected thru hard work.

[Knuckles]

Got a link for us, Banditman?

[Banditman]

I wish I did, the beta forums were wiped when PS was released. If you post on the main forums and ask for Chavr, he would probably get to you pretty quick.

Edit: The "General" forums at planetside.com that is.

[LesserShade]

Originally posted by King0liver
Pistols as sidearms are almost worthless as well in that reloading times and weapon switching times are almost the same.
Not true. If two MA grunts are duking it out at pretty close ranges and they both need to reload at the same time, it is much faster to pull out a second weapon like a pistol and finish your opponent off than it is to reload. Now mind you, a pistol sidearm is a pretty low priority when there are more useful things to stuff in your pistol slots like banks, med applicators, reks and so forth.

Also, for AV whores like myself, I usually throw a pistol in my indoor AV loadout which usually consists of a striker and shotgun. The pistol makes a great sidearm when using the shottie because you have to reload that thing so frequently.

[Plato]

I'd just like to add that the sweeper shotgun is a load of crap. I rarely see it being used, ROF is dreadful. Load it up with AP rounds and it takes about 3 clips to kill a max...

The mini-gun is terrible in that it just cannot shoot straight. It's useless against NC because you have to get up close and their Jackhammer will be instant death for you. I frequently see 3 Jackhammer kills appearing on my screen within the space of 5 secs from the same guy. The only mini-gun I've seen so far in release is one on a corpse. I guess people didn't like the accuracy in training..

I don't have a lot of Max experience but it seems mobility is a better choice than digging in the TR max units. Dig in your max at the cc, you're going to get hit twice w/ a Decimator before you know it...all for about 50% ROF increase. I'd have to agree the VS jumping ability is by far the best. The only counter to it is locking on with a striker..

[Banditman]

Actually, the sweeper is a nice weapon . . . but ONLY inside. I've found it especially functional in the basement areas of the bases where line of sight is very limited.

[Plato]

Yeah but there's no getting away from the poor ROF.. It appears to me that there are better alternatives in every situation... especially if you're TR :)

[LesserShade]

Wow. The sweeper is fantastic indoors. I have an alternate indoor loadout for all my standard loadouts that replaces the cycler with a shotgun.

Yeah it used to be pretty mediocre, but in the patch that beefed up the jackhammer, they beefed up the sweeper too, that thing absolutely owns in close quarters.

[Shin1gami]

I find it very annoying that you can't really see if you're hitting things at longer ranges unless you have advanced targeting. They could add some blood or smoke or something... just for the satisfaction of it... as long as they don't overdo it, like in CS, where a single shot will spray a gallon af blood on the wall behind your enemy.

In my experience the Gauss is superiour to the cycler at long range because of the accuracy and greater damage, but up close the cycler just rips you apart. I picked up a pulsar once, but I threw that away fast.

[Winged_Nazgul]

Originally posted by Shin1gami
I picked up a pulsar once, but I threw that away fast.

:lol:

Try being VS and having to put up with that POS.

[Plato]

I have not used it in a while, I'll have to give it a try. Thanks for the info

[EnderCN]

If you really think the VS max are the best... you've obviously never used them. The TR AV max is better vs infantry than the VS AI max. The VS AV max is more or less worthless compared to other max, its able to kill max and thats it, terrible against infantry(unlike at least the tr) and can't hit vehicles unless they just sit there(all max have this issue though).

The lasher is the worst HA weapon as far as simply killing people close up. Its a little better at range than the others and the lashing can be nice though hardly great. Its definetly not better than the other HA. The lancer is a pretty nice weapon, that and the magrider are really the only thing VS has... that and the jump ability that is offset by the other civs bonuses.

[Jarlo]

Magrider and Lancer are what make VS really good.

VS max are pretty weak, I play the NC Scattercannon max alot and that damn thing never has to reload. VS max (AI) goes thru a clip in a few seconds and even at medium range the accuracy is TERRIBLE.

[LesserShade]

good god the magrider.. I swear, I'm more afraid of that floating death raft than I am of the vanguard at this point. The guns are alright, but it's just levels infantry. Between it's ability to strafe and Emerald's comical lag it is 100% to stop one of these things from making you road kill, even with AV.