Lodestar / AMS?

[Hamma]

In light of our recent interview, I was wondering everyones thoughts on the Lodestar *possibly* being able to tote an AMS. Think this will be good or bad? why?

SmokeJumper: Ah ha! You must mean the Lodestar. That vehicle hasn't been fully spec'd yet, but we're anticipating being able to haul heavy tanks and possibly even an AMS. (The Liberator is the bomber.)

[mikkyT]

Would be easier to have a mobile spawn point in the back of ya plane.... not sure about how overpowering that would be... but then the lodestar is common pool....

[Strygun]

I'd say it will have it's good and bad sides... I mean, an AMS is important in any large battle, but being able to just fly the AMS there (instead of possibly driving it across the whole continent) will make battles much more intense.

However, dropping and/or landing the lodestar to let an AMS out will give away the position to anyone paying attention.

I don't know for sure, I'll have to see it in action...

[Nitsch]

I can see it now.... AMS bombing raids! 20 lodestars with 20 ams's droping on a base....running over everyone!

[kerosene31]

I don't see any major problem with it if that happens. Who knows what will happen when/if the masses get hold of something like that.

Since AMS doesn't allow people to go Max, I don't think it would be that overwhelming. If you want to assault a base, you really need some Maxs and the best way to get them there is either Galaxy or taking a guard tower.

[MilitantB0B]

If the Lodestar can hot drop its vehichles, and carry AMS then I think we will probably see an increase in its use. However, if they have to land to release its cargo, I don't think it will be a problem. :)

[Seer]

You'll probably only be able to get Lodestars from Galaxy facilities.

[Kaltagesta]

i think this is what the other guy was saying, but if u have to land it first, e.g., cant bail the vehicles out, then it would be better.

[Nitsch]

I hope they can hot-drop vehicles.... It's soo much fun to get hot-dropped from a plane!

[�io]

Flying AMS = Zerging


Simple as that.

[Yogi]

Originally posted by �io
Flying AMS = Zerging


Simple as that.

No its not that simple.

There have been many occassions I wish I could fly an AMS with me. First and foremost is when trying to break a continent lock. When going after a tower nearest to a base it'd be nice to bring an AMS in via air instead of driving it for an hour to get there. If we hot drop from a Galaxy and get repulsed we have to go all the way back to that tower by the warp gate that is 10km away.

How would an AMS cause zerging?

It's got one station so if massive amounts of people are spawning there it takes a while before you can fight your way to the front of the line and get out. Everyone is in spawn and is an easy kill. Even if an AMS turns into a zerg it is quickly found, destroyed, and mopped up.

Allowing the Loadstar to carry an AMS will only improve game play IMO.

[Hamma]

And, what is wrong with zerging? It's a part of the game :huh:

[Endodroid]

They should implement automated base defenses before adding the loadstar, and the bomber for that matter. If you know the risk is greater for flying over an enemy occupied base you�ll be less likely to get really close before doing hot drops of an AMS right next to one. I�m really curious as to how they plan to do the bomber; weapons lock in 5 seconds flat!

[�io]

Originally posted by Hamma
And, what is wrong with zerging? It's a part of the game :huh:

To a certain point, i don't mind zerging from a tower or AMS that earned it's right to be near the base, but if an empire simply drops in 3 AMSes near my base and begins to invade that just sucks.

If you're too lazy and/or not good enough to drive your AMS to the base then you shouldn't have one there. :mad:

[Seer]

To a certain extent, I think it would be better if they both made AMSs more fragile and gave them the ability to be dropped from lodestars.

[wasupx]

way i would make lodestar

maximum of 6 cargo holds
no armor vehicles(basilisk/wraith/ant) take up 1 spot (6total)
light armor and medium armor (harasser/lightning/buggies) takes up 2 spots (3total)
heavy armor (ams/tanks) take up 3 (2total)

Thus u could carry one tank, 1 heavy buggy and one ant for instance.

I wouldnt allow apc (sunder/deliverer) to use it because it would remove role of galaxy. Not sure if i would allow max's to be carried either, since galaxy really cant carry many max's either. Actually, it would have to be either able to carry 6max's(use 1space each) or 2deliverers imo, depending on what role developers want. I imagine it having a chinook like design with loading from front and back. Not sure if i would put any weapons on it, u really dont want it to replace the galaxy as a infantry transport. Same maneuverability as a galaxy i would guess.

[ObnoxiousFrog]

Well think about it....
Galaxies rarely leave with any real escort and are easily taken by a Reaver or two. If you saw a giant flying tank carrier, you would take action and shoot the bastard down. So the Lodestar would be lucky if it even made it to the drop point alive if there are any fighters there...

[Airlift]

To think about it a minute, There are only a few vehicles that cannot be carried in a Galaxy:

Heavy Tanks (Vanguard, Prowler, Magrider)
APCs (Deliverer, Sunder)
AMS

Obviously, the Lodestar is going to carry the heavy tanks, otherwise, what is the point?

Probably, it is going to carry a deliverer, because this gives it some very unique troop transport capabilities without stepping all over the Galaxy.

It is unlikey that it will carry a Sunder because this gives you nearly equivalent and potentially better troop transport capabilities when compared to the Galaxy (lose the light vehicle, gain a big effing truck).

It is very difficult to say whether it will carry the AMS, and I bet they haven't even decided yet. Logistically, the AMS is the same size as the Sunder, so it would cause suspension of disbelief issues if you could carry one but not the other. From a balance perspective, AMS delivery could make the already difficult job of defending against a zerg impossible. On the other hand, it would be cool as hell.

Personally, I am most interested in putting a Deliverer in there.

[Yogi]

If a Lodestar can carry an AMS then pilots will probably spend more time going after air targets.

How much air to air action currently happens in the game compared to air to ground?

[Streamline]

Pfff whatever... you cant even have a good dogfight without getting shot down by ground forces.

Say you get 150 of your outfit members to deconstruct and wait in limbo til you hotdrop 3 ams on an enemy dropship center. So you can zerg out of it. If you dont think thats a problem...??? Whatever...

[Doppler]

Me personally I just alway do a hot drop by a vehicle pad hack the pad buy my ams and roll over anyone that tries to get in my way roll out into the terain proper (if attacking) or into the courtyard. (if defending) This works like a champ.

I tend to agree though airdropping the heavy vehicles, the AMS especialy whould completely change the dynamic of battles and eliminate open field fighting enirely, as well as completely eliminating the strategy of chokepointing a bridge.

[EarlyDawn]

I would be in full support of allowing the LS to carry a Deliverer. You would see a dramatic boost in Deliverer use, and would have very interesting implementations. The ability to drop a fast, tactically flexable light APC would be a tremendous asset.

It also wouldn't make the Galaxy obsolete.

As for the LS/AMS issue, I see no balance or technical reason why a vehicle capable of carrying a Heavy Tank wouldn't be able to carry an AMS.

If you only allow the LS to carry one vehicle, up to a heavy tank, it won't be used. Simple as that.

[Ginzue]

Yeh that poor hummer is WAY under used.

[Hamma]

Originally posted by Stream|ine
Pfff whatever... you cant even have a good dogfight without getting shot down by ground forces.

Say you get 150 of your outfit members to deconstruct and wait in limbo til you hotdrop 3 ams on an enemy dropship center. So you can zerg out of it. If you dont think thats a problem...??? Whatever... I call it a tactic.

[Doppler]

Logistically, the AMS is the same size as the Sunder, so it would cause suspension of disbelief issues if you could carry one but not the other.

I really dont see it that way they might be the same size tall but not the same size in length. Also I whould wager that a sunderer especialy fully loaded with ammo max's and everything else weighs quite a bit more.

[Yogi]

Originally posted by Stream|ine
Pfff whatever... you cant even have a good dogfight without getting shot down by ground forces.

Say you get 150 of your outfit members to deconstruct and wait in limbo til you hotdrop 3 ams on an enemy dropship center. So you can zerg out of it. If you dont think thats a problem...??? Whatever...

How old are you 12?

I drop 3 AMS's on a drop ship center, how do I suddenly zerg 100s of people out of them?

How long to they last before they get killed because you could see exactly where they were were dropped?

This might happen, but people will figure out this is retarded and counter productive.

[Streamline]

stfu moron. Are age insults all you got? All you gotta do it wait in stasus til your spawn point shows up. Or just have everyone within its range. /suicide and spawn there. Zerging is not hard to fabricate. Furthermore you dont have to do this on a base that has alot of resistance at the time for ppl to even see it. If you knew anything about the lattice system you'd know that continent is all about the drop ship center. You dont need a lattice to it to take it over. You can still use everything there. Kill the tubes, take the tower, camp the gen and its basicly yours til the ntus run out. If you hot drop teh ams from high altitude then your AA is worthless. Since there is nothing in defending. There wont be anyone around to do shit about it anyway.

And Yogi? if you still don't understand how this works. You need to place your left hand behind your left ear, and your right hand behind your right ear. The push with all your might until your head comes free of your ass.

[EarlyDawn]

Originally posted by Stream|ine
stfu moron. Are age insults all you got? All you gotta do it wait in stasus til your spawn point shows up. Or just have everyone within its range. /suicide and spawn there. Zerging is not hard to fabricate. Furthermore you dont have to do this on a base that has alot of resistance at the time for ppl to even see it. If you knew anything about the lattice system you'd know that continent is all about the drop ship center. You dont need a lattice to it to take it over. You can still use everything there. Kill the tubes, take the tower, camp the gen and its basicly yours til the ntus run out. If you hot drop teh ams from high altitude then your AA is worthless. Since there is nothing in defending. There wont be anyone around to do shit about it anyway.

And Yogi? if you still don't understand how this works. You need to place your left hand behind your left ear, and your right hand behind your right ear. The push with all your might until your head comes free of your ass.

Banned.

[�io]

Originally posted by Doppler
I tend to agree though airdropping the heavy vehicles, the AMS especialy whould completely change the dynamic of battles and eliminate open field fighting enirely, as well as completely eliminating the strategy of chokepointing a bridge.

Finally someone who gets it!!

http://bohica.planetside-universe.com/images/forumImages/cookie_goodjob.jpg

[Doppler]

Wow and people call me abrasive, please folks can we please not direct insults at people. You want to express an opinion or a thought fine, just make sure you filter the sewage pipe of the mind.

[ZionsFire]

flame war!

[EarlyDawn]

Ok, new question: stance on the LS being able to carry the Deliverer; why or why not? go back a page for my answer.

[Tieom]

My useless $0.02:
I think the Lodestar should be able to carry any vehicle but with speed penalties depending on the vehicle's size.
Something like this:
Empty or ANT/Basilisk/Wraith: 130% Galaxy speed
Harasser/Heavy buggy: 120% Galaxy speed
Lightning/Deliverer: 110% Galaxy speed
Tank: Galaxy speed
AMS/Sunderer: 75% Galaxy speed (Slow!)

Maneuverability (Turn radius) would be affected similarily. Carrying an AMS or sunderer would turn the lodestar into a big, flying cow. It would still be faster than the vehicles themselves, especially with hostile terrain.

[Doppler]

Personaly I cant complain about them being able to drop a deliverer as the vehicle needs some balance to it. I've said it before and ill say it again, they aught to replace one of the deliverers guns with an anti air homing missile turrent, then people might actualy use it and it might live up to it's name of being able to deliver people to the battle field safely. Just my .002.

The more I think about it the less I like the idea of people being able to drop AMS and sunderers at all. I think the vehicle should bew able to haul something like 3 tanks ( a major force package if there ever was one) or maybe one sunderer. But should have to find a suitable landing spot to drop it's payload.

Thoughts?

[AztecWarrior]

Is it just me, or does it seem like the Lodestar is really the Loadstar, but b0rked?

[SC385]

i was thinking the samething.

[Doppler]

b0rked

I'm not familiar with this term wise one please enlighten so that I might better understand the context.

[mikkyT]

You BIND at the AMS at the sanct, then kit out in MAX from the sanctuary, then when the lodestar has located the AMS on a new continent, recall into a spawn tube and spawn at the newly located AMS. Simple.

And those those tards who are arguing

http://www.raceworx.com/funnypics/banderas_homo.jpg

[Streamline]

Who's who's arguing? All i did was give half a strat which you just completed. Some tard wants to flame me fine. I got no issue with that. But expect the favor to be returned.

[Yogi]

Originally posted by Stream|ine
stfu moron. Are age insults all you got? All you gotta do it wait in stasus til your spawn point shows up. Or just have everyone within its range. /suicide and spawn there. Zerging is not hard to fabricate. Furthermore you dont have to do this on a base that has alot of resistance at the time for ppl to even see it. If you knew anything about the lattice system you'd know that continent is all about the drop ship center. You dont need a lattice to it to take it over. You can still use everything there. Kill the tubes, take the tower, camp the gen and its basicly yours til the ntus run out. If you hot drop teh ams from high altitude then your AA is worthless. Since there is nothing in defending. There wont be anyone around to do shit about it anyway.

And Yogi? if you still don't understand how this works. You need to place your left hand behind your left ear, and your right hand behind your right ear. The push with all your might until your head comes free of your ass.

Well lets play the ignorance game.

/suicide doesn't work, if you knew anything about the game you'd know that :rolleyes:

It's funny, because when I look at my map, I can see my dropship center has it's gens destroyed and it's NTU level is dropping. If I were smart I would send a squad there to eliminate anyone there and/or send a broadcast for help.

It'd be just plain stupid to sit there and watch a facility as important as the dropship center go neutral behind your lines.

And just for your information we took a dropship center last night when all the vanus all left a continent they locked. We drained it and took it. Within 2 hours it went from VS lock to entirely owned by TR and NC. This was on a continent that is one hop from a VS sanc, I forget which.

[Bodhidharma]

Originally posted by mikkyT
You BIND at the AMS at the sanct, then kit out in MAX from the sanctuary, then when the lodestar has located the AMS on a new continent, recall into a spawn tube and spawn at the newly located AMS. Simple.

And those those tards who are arguing

http://www.raceworx.com/funnypics/banderas_homo.jpg

Ummm.. who wants to explain about deconstruction/reconstruction?

[Vis Armata]

Like Airlift said, I would also like to see Deliverers being used more. I thought I drove the only one. Dropping just two would give a full squad fast movement and the ability to ford water. Given that many people now forego the Galaxy certification (another fun thing, in my book) for grunt weapons, I'll bet that the Lodestar is pretty rare.

What SOE should come up with is a giant flyswatter, to smack 3-4 Reavers at a time out of the air. Like flys on !@#$.

[Ghryphen]

Originally posted by Yogi
And just for your information we took a dropship center last night when all the vanus all left a continent...

The only way you can do it :p

[Led]

Originally posted by Doppler
turrent,

Did you say what I think you said?

[Ghryphen]

Horka Thane lives :rolleyes:

[1024]

ok back on topic....


I think that the AMS shouldn't be able to be transported by teh LS. IT woudl totally eliminate choke points everywhere. All a squad leader has to do to kill a tough battle on a bridge is call on someone with the LS cert and someone with an AMS cert. Simple as that. Chokepoints help centralize the battles. With the ability to put an AMS almost anywhere there will be battles all over the place. Althoug hit might just bring all the battles to only bases, which would kind of suck, as the fact that everytime you would fight, it would be either defending a base or attacking one, as opposed to defendinga bridge that is the shortest way towards a central island, such as the island in the middle of essamir.

Although it should be able to carry 2 heavy tanks, at least. Thats the whole point of the LS, heavy tank transport. I dont think that the transport being transported by a transport would work (deliverer transported by a LS ). IT would simply just make mass transportation to easy. Mass transportation should be more than just, "Everyone pile into the deliverers, then we get in the LS and we're off!"

Too easy.




Oh as a side note, do you guys realy have to flame each other? why cant we just keep the conversation flame-free?

[Doppler]

Personaly I whould like to see them rig it up by weight, I.E a load star able to haul two heavy tanks or one sunderer. One of my biggest gripes about the sunderer is it is rediculous that a military vehicle has such lousy offroad capability. The ability to haul a single sunderer in a load star whould give it better balance especialy on snowy continents where offroading in the sunderer just isnt an option.

[Hamma]

People always say turrent

[Streamline]

Originally posted by Yogi
Well lets play the ignorance game.

/suicide doesn't work, if you knew anything about the game you'd know that :rolleyes:

It's funny, because when I look at my map, I can see my dropship center has it's gens destroyed and it's NTU level is dropping. If I were smart I would send a squad there to eliminate anyone there and/or send a broadcast for help.

It'd be just plain stupid to sit there and watch a facility as important as the dropship center go neutral behind your lines.

And just for your information we took a dropship center last night when all the vanus all left a continent they locked. We drained it and took it. Within 2 hours it went from VS lock to entirely owned by TR and NC. This was on a continent that is one hop from a VS sanc, I forget which.

Doesnt matter that suicide doesnt work as long as you are in respawn stasis. Kill yourself or just goto a tower and deconstruct. If you bound to that AMS you can spawn there.

And i know its stupid to let your dropship center go nuetral. But it happens all the time. Also why blow the Gen? I never said anything about blowing the gen. Thats whats stupid. Low NTUs can be from your empires overuse and under restock. The only thing you should get from your map is that you can't spawn there cuz the tubes are blown. But big deal. Go ahead and send a squad. If an outfit setup enough ppl to bind matrixs to these ams before they get there. Then it doesnt matter where they are they can all be there at one time. And your one squad won't be enough if a large enough force commits to the plan. They could be off at the next 3 bases blowing spawn tubes and cappin towers. If a /command to return to DS center comes in then you got an instant zerg army as they reconstruct at previously ams hot drop sites.

And what if you brought a 4th one for kicks but didnt drop it yet. Fly it up to the celling limit and keep lota of air support around it. You could cue them in the warp gate and send them in as needed. You only need to matrix bind on the first set. Once your forces are there you can drop em anywhere nearby.

If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it. Does it matter?

[TransportPilot]

I think it should be able to caryy 3 vehicles max, no sunders or AMS. Also it should be slowed, lowering of the handling depending on what is loaded and such. Also leave on hot drops but only at a specific height and only buggies, scouts ,lightning, and delivers ( dropping 3 hvy tanks in an enemy base per LS would be scary with three or more LSs ) maybe have two of the vehicles compartments like that and the third one only able to hold scouts/buggies/lightning so that it would balance out passangers and such or possibly just two than can hold all but sunders and AMS and just 2 additonal MAXs would be ok too

just my $0.02

( plus I'd love to be in a deliverer hot dropped onto some water near an enemy basr would be fun )

[Yogi]

All of the arguments and tactics against having the LS carry and AMS that I have seen so far all require a lot of coordination, team work and planning.

Now I ask, is this a bad thing? One of the tenets of this game is teamwork after all.

There's a lot of assumptions being made that don't bode well in rhetoric. It's something that's going to have to play test in order to tell what the ramifications will be.

[1024]

Atlhough i do agree with you on we should see a play test to see hwo wel it goes, i stil don't think that getting someone with teh LS cert and someone with AMS cert requires that much teamwork. I mean, people load into transports all the time with galaxies.

[Lonehunter]

Wouldn't it be cool if an AMS could cloak a Lodestar in flight? It would also be sweet to respawn in an aiborne AMS then hot drop down to a base.

[�io]

Yeah! And the AMS should have 4 gunners seats with a 150mm cannon and a 20mm MG each!! :lol:

[SC385]

acctually it would be kind of cool to spawn in an airborn AMS. but it would be a sitting target for the skeeters and the reevers.

[1024]

Originally posted by �io
Yeah! And the AMS should have 4 gunners seats with a 150mm cannon and a 20mm MG each!! :lol:

exactly what i was thinking Dio....

And dont forget the nukes!!

[Led]

Originally posted by Hamma
People always say turrent

Internet rednecks!

[Streamline]

Originally posted by Lonehunter187
Wouldn't it be cool if an AMS could cloak a Lodestar in flight? It would also be sweet to respawn in an aiborne AMS then hot drop down to a base.

Yeah... in standard loadout. Go ahead.

I'm not making any for or against statments. But i am fairly certain it will change game play. If the game play get all gheyd up. Then i'm threw with PS. Theres already enough stupid shit. I don't need more. Why can't they just make what they have better? I'm all for more teamwork. But more toys does not equal more teamwork. Theres plenty of things they can do to improve gameplay. It's my belief that if they just do that. We'll see more and better teamwork.

[BladeRunner]

If the lodestar will be able to carry an AMS...

imagine deploying an AMS that is on a hill that's too steep for enemies to climb, but short enough that your teammates don't die when they slide down.

Would it be a sitting duck? Easy to spot and destroy? Or would it be harder?

[Hamma]

Reaver :D

[�io]

Originally posted by Hamma
Reaver :D

Sadly that's the solution to every problem in PS. :(

[1024]

Originally posted by �io
Sadly that's the solution to every problem in PS. :(

You said what was in my head, Dio. http://www.dodstudios.net/uploads/uploads/imwithdio.gif

[Doppler]

All of the arguments and tactics against having the LS carry and AMS that I have seen so far all require a lot of coordination, team work and planning.

Ams driver drives up to loadstar doors, presses G, drives intoo loadstar bay. Pilot takes off and places ams all the way across the continent. I cant see how that requires a lot of teamwork and planing. I've always had ams certs it's part of who I am and what roll i fill in a team and their just damn handy to have. Their caveat is their relatively slow dont handle very well and die fairly quickly once found. And i LIKE ALL THIS. If AMS are allowed in loadstar's there be no reason to guard bridges and no reason to fight in country, all fights (even more so) will center right at bases doorstep as 2 guys with AMS certs and one guy with loadstar's can place their ams on either side of an enemy base quickly with minimal travel time and exposure. If loadstars are allowed to carry ams every squad will need to have an aircomponent just to hunt down kill loadstars/ams. Quite frankly this game is already starting to look like Jane's Planetside without going down that road.