Reavers

[�io]

Ok i want PSU's opinion.

I (as many know) HATE reavers in current form. I don't care what all you reavers pilots say they are overpowered. The only true danger to reavers is skeeters and lock on weapons.

Lock on weapons : Any guy in a reaver (other than n00bs) knows that this is a joke, you see lock ok you hit the afterburners, worst case scenario you get hit by a few of them, land, repair and off you go.

Skeeters : It takes quite a bit of skill to actually kill a reaver with this unless you're somehow lucky enough to be 1 on 1 away from any enemy AA units. (cause unlike reavers skeeters will die from AA units)

The way i see it reavers need less armor or fewer rockets in the uber rocket barrage.

PSU's turn.

[Navaron]

Reavers have the best spam weapon, second fastest speed, and disproportionate armor. Take this flight model and combine it with the joke of a flight model, and every no talent ass clown will be airborne and zerg the sky- o wait, they did that.

[Kikinchikin]

no way! the vanu and NC lock on anti air weapons are very accurate and can really screw u up. hell man when i see a vanu anti air max i basically get ready to hotdrop, cuz those things follow u a long ways, even if u have afterburners.

or supposethis u dont have ne afterburners then ur screwed.

as for terrans, they have no lock on... :mad: but they have flak which is good against reavers, and about repairing, there is seldom an engineer around when i need him.

[�io]

Well most reaver pilots know that lock on means hit the ground and swirve between trees and hills, not just gun the gas. :)

And if you're a smart pilot you have engy cert yourself.

[1024]

I think if they just cut the afterburners off those things along with toning ddown the speed to somewhere inbetween now and a galaxy's top speed it would do the trick. People would get frustrated from the travel time, and the maneuverability would get cut down, thus making it harder to avoid AA weapons, which dont do SHIT against them.

I have an interesting stoy to tell about my phoenix and a reaver:

Once when i was assaulting a base with my squad., i died and respawned at a nearby AMS, which was inside a big ditch, hidden from the horizontal sight of the base. A reaver spot the AMS and comes down, i kid you not, about 1 or 2 meters off the ground, RIGHT NEXT TO ME. I happened to open up my loadout that had my jacky mchammer nad phoenix, so i whipped out my phoenix and started shooting at the dumbass pilot. I shoot him FOUR TIMES. While i was shooting him i was about 8 meters away, almsot POINT BLANK rnage. BEfore i got a hcance to get off a 5th shoot, he kills the AMS and turns around and pecks at me with the minigun hes got and kills me in about a second or two.

Now, if thats not overpowered, i don't know what is.

[MrVulcan]

I just think that we need better AA weapons, like that AA buggy that will be in game *soon*, and double the dmg from the AA max vs air, that would work too..... Or double the Skeeter's dmg vs air, or somehting to down air faster......

[Doppler]

Yes we do need better AA weapons, but the reaver also needs it's armor toned way down that or it's amueverability adjusted. U'm sorry i'm vauguely disturbed that they can take 2 shots from a devastator (if your lucky enough to hit them) run off and repair and be back in the fight. They either need to have less armor period, have their armor retooled so small arms antiarmor fire does more, or adjust their manueverability to be more in keeping with their armor profile. I just about cried the day they said their were going to change the vtol set up so pilots could ascend and descend faster.

I spose we could just follow the command and conquer renegade model and make snipers the flying units bane. Seems reasonable to me. Plus it whould give snipers something to do for a change.

A note on the phoenex, CAN WE PLEASE LET IT RELOAD WHILE IM PILOTING TO TARGET? Thankyou.

[Skitz]

Removing the afterburner seems fine, that way AA would be more affective without making misq's any worse.

[justmust]

If they made AA better, then the other types of aircraft would be too easy to kill. I think they just need to tone down the armor a bit.

[BigDickMccoy]

I wouldn't dick with it personally, be then I'm a reaver pilot

[Streamline]

When i fly the thing i hate most is pounders. They can totally obliterate you before your rockets get anywhere near him. A solid squad that of course has a pounder, has a support. One locking weapon and the reaver will have a difficult time finding the pounder before he can do anything about it. These tow working in tandem is the one of the only situations i just avoid flying in altogether.

And even in the right hands the reaver still sucks.

[WritheNC]

I think they should just tone down the armor a bit.

It is pretty ridiculous that a reaver can suck up 4-5 shots from a phoenix and not be destroyed, considering that it only takes 3 to kill a lightning.

Aircraft is supposed to have superior speed and less armor than just about anything. Since it has a lot of the electronics a ground vehicle has in addition to electronics' systems to help it fly, it has less room for armor.

Yes, aircraft can and should rule the air and be great support against ground, but they aren't flying tanks.

[DrummerX]

Only problem Ive got with reavers right now is we dont have the ability to roll. This is way in the future and we got friggin gates across the universe, alien technology, but our aircraft cant perform a roll? Complete crap.

I agree about the armor, its way to high. But the amount of missiles is fine. A max unit can carry hundreds of rounds of ammo, so why cant the reav's?

[DrummerX]

Also, I would much enjoy it if counter-measures we're installed in reavers and mosquitos(Flares, etc., ways of getting enemy missiles off your ass)

[BigDickMccoy]

I must agree with Streamline though....Reavers handle like pigs

[Shadowsword8]

Reavers are already overused and too resistants. Adding counter-measures would just make the situation worse.

I thing the main thing in a reaver that need to be toned down is it's max speed. A reaver at top speed (without afterburners) move almost as fast as a phoenix missile. If you're behind a reaver (even 10-15 meters behind), firing at him with a phoenix is almost useless.

It's also true that their armor is a little too strong...

[Lise]

Apparently I'm the only one who has this opinion... I actually think Reavers die quickly enough. Real AA weapons (like the Sparrow or Burster) kill a Reaver pretty quickly, and if something else is wailing on it it's doomed. What needs toning down is the rocket ability. I don't even have a problem with the damage so much as I do the spam capacity. At this point a Reaver pilot doesn't even need the 20mm chaingun, because if he gets some extra rockets in the trunk he has enough ammo to wipe out entire squads of infantry along with their vehicle without breaking too much of a sweat. At least make those things fire less quickly so they're not utterly awesome against everything.

[aiwest420]

I personally think the mosquito needs improving, because its barely used, and it takes at least 100 bullets to kill a reaver (alot more when you cant keep your crosshair on the reaver).

1) give the mosq AA missiles which can lock-on to reavers (not effective against infantry/ground vehicles).

2)improve mosq machine gun, make it more effective against the reaver.


about the reaver afterburner, i think it should only be able to activate when the reaver is going faster than 70kph.

[Airlift]

The poll is biased. I voted 1, but I'm not certed for reaver. I think you are overestimating the difficulty of killing a reaver with a mosquito and the AA MAXes are quite capable of keeping aircraft from causing damage, even if they don't destroy them on every pass, because a reaver who is afterburning away isn't taking out your squad.

More and more as the game matures, a squad without air defense is going to be raped by aircraft. Air defense is cheap but there still aren't enough people willing to invest in dedicated AA duty. This will change when the bomber is released.

The skies aren't being zerged with reavers. You will find a lot of them massed in a zerg, but there are a whole lot of overall units there, and a lot more ground forces.

I don't care if they do nerf the reaver, but when you start crying about my skeet next, I am giving you so much shit.

[DrummerX]

Tone down max speed? Thats complete BS. Its an aircraft, aircraft have speed.

Like lise said, reavers die extremely fast against a skilled av max. Not the retards that sit on the walls and fire like their on crack, but the guys that know what their doing. Also, their is an AA vehicle being integrated into the game soon, so this will be even more of an annoyance for reaver pilots.

Also, maybe its just me, but reavers shoot down reavers pretty damn good as well. Stop crying, balance out your squad, and youll do much better.

[EarlyDawn]

I agree with Airlift. The bias of number one smacked me in the face the moment I loaded this page. Try remaking it with unbiased options.

[1024]

Originally posted by 1024
I think if they just cut the afterburners off those things along with toning ddown the speed to somewhere inbetween now and a galaxy's top speed it would do the trick. People would get frustrated from the travel time, and the maneuverability would get cut down, thus making it harder to avoid AA weapons, which dont do SHIT against them.

I have an interesting stoy to tell about my phoenix and a reaver:

Once when i was assaulting a base with my squad., i died and respawned at a nearby AMS, which was inside a big ditch, hidden from the horizontal sight of the base. A reaver spot the AMS and comes down, i kid you not, about 1 or 2 meters off the ground, RIGHT NEXT TO ME. I happened to open up my loadout that had my jacky mchammer nad phoenix, so i whipped out my phoenix and started shooting at the dumbass pilot. I shoot him FOUR TIMES. While i was shooting him i was about 8 meters away, almsot POINT BLANK rnage. BEfore i got a hcance to get off a 5th shoot, he kills the AMS and turns around and pecks at me with the minigun hes got and kills me in about a second or two.

Now, if thats not overpowered, i don't know what is.

Did you guys even read my post before??

[�io]

Originally posted by LNS0388
I agree with Airlift. The bias of number one smacked me in the face the moment I loaded this page. Try remaking it with unbiased options.

Dude this is the 2nd post i see from you and it's the 2nd that is bitching at me, i don't know why you're pissed at me but i suggest you choose another target. The poll is biased because *hint hint* THIS IS FOR FUN, this isn't a dev asking it or a scientific research, i just wanted PSU's opinion about a subject, if you can't reply without bitching at me then don't.

To everybody else thanks for your opinions, glad to see i'm not the only one who thinks reavers are overpowered. :)

Oh and Airlift i don't think anybody will say the skeeter is overpowered, i love my skeeter but it's far from being uber l33t. ;)

[Navaron]

Originally posted by LNS0388
I agree with Airlift. The bias of number one smacked me in the face the moment I loaded this page. Try remaking it with unbiased options.

Jesus, all bow to the Poll Gestapo.

[TheJingle]

heh , they have more armor than a lightning , they should have like HALF the armor of a damn tank IMO . It takes a full clip of AA shots to kill a reaver with VS , and thats practically impossible to do unless the pilots a fucking moron , and other guns barely scratch them . I think they should have their armor cut in half at the very least , and either take the afterburners away or tone them down somehow .

[Incompetent]

Cut their armor in half and take away there ability to hover, i cannot stand those dumbfucks who just hover outside a tower door looking for cheap kills, hopefully this would help get rid of them.

[Matuse]

Tone down max speed? Thats complete BS. Its an aircraft, aircraft have speed.

Yes, aircraft have speed, but there are other considerations at work. Reavers fly only slightly slower than Skeeters, while boasting more than twice the armor. That's illogical to the point of stupidity.

Just the fact that they can almost outrun a MISSILE without using afterburners tells you something is very wrong.

[Vis Armata]

Reavers are fine. What is not fine is people that can't think themselves out of a box. Try getting certed on the Striker, or getting the AA MAX (The TR variety seems to ruin people's day in the sky). Man wall turrets. Don't travel in the open. Think of something else than complaining. Complaining is so, so easy compared to problem solving. Cmon kids, you can do it.

[MrVulcan]

True, but I tested something today, I took the NC AA max, and went vs a Reaver 1-1 from full health (on both sides).

He fired rockets, I fired rockets,

He won with about 30ish% health left and every rocket I fired in that time hit (we started shooting at the same time)

Now is it jsut me, or should the biggist AA thing in the game (the AA max) be able to take out a reaver 1-1.

I mean its not like the AA max is good for anything else

:p

[TheAngelOfWar]

i LOVE reavers in their current form. their spam rockets give them big heads. i walk around, and see one veer in towards me. i anchor down and cut loose, downing it in 3 seconds because they dont know the AA max from ant others :rofl:

my best record is 10 kills 1 death so far. in fact, give the reavers a larger clip for all i care, they only get a shot or two before i blow em.

[EarlyDawn]

Originally posted by �io
Dude this is the 2nd post i see from you and it's the 2nd that is bitching at me, i don't know why you're pissed at me but i suggest you choose another target. The poll is biased because *hint hint* THIS IS FOR FUN, this isn't a dev asking it or a scientific research, i just wanted PSU's opinion about a subject, if you can't reply without bitching at me then don't.

To everybody else thanks for your opinions, glad to see i'm not the only one who thinks reavers are overpowered. :)

Oh and Airlift i don't think anybody will say the skeeter is overpowered, i love my skeeter but it's far from being uber l33t. ;)

Two unrelated incidents, it's nothing personal. Just an unreasonable response in my opinion because it implies that everyone who thinks the reaver is fine flies one. It's also flame bait for those with lesser comprehension skills. (OMFG dude u must b3 a reaver pilot, stop protecting your vehicle)

Don't think I'm going specifically after you, if I found your posts that offensive I'd probably just block you. I'm not really into carrying debates. I just didn't agree with your posts, that's it. :love:

[Kikinchikin]

I share the opinion that the reaver is fine the way it is. AA maxes can obliterate them. The rockets are fine also. Heres my story.

I decided to get the AA max since i had 2 certs to kill till next BR a few days ago. So i am perched on top of a tower, thats being heavily assaulted by reavers and other crap. Ok so about 10 reavers are there. I am in my Burster. Boom 5 of em are gone in 2 minutes. My burster shredded them.

Now thats not overpowered is it?

And with the rocket issue, i find that it takes about 10-12 rockets to dispatch of a reinforced exo soldier and about 9-10 for an agile exo suit soldier. and about 16-20 for a max unit. that can really eat through ur supply of reaver rockets pretty quick... so dont adjust that either.

Simply reavers are fine the way they are.

[Kikinchikin]

oh and i just saw this. DO NOT I REPEAT DO NOT TAKE AWAY THEIR ABILITY TO HOVER!!! If you've played BF1942 u know what im talking about. I tried so darn hard to pilot a plane in that game, but i could never do it. it is soooooooooooooo hard. Reaver hovering isthe only way they can actualy hit their target. and the people that hover in front of towers... well thats kinda the same thing as camping at spawn tubes dont u think?

[aiwest420]

Originally posted by Lilbird2431
oh and i just saw this. DO NOT I REPEAT DO NOT TAKE AWAY THEIR ABILITY TO HOVER!!! If you've played BF1942 u know what im talking about. I tried so darn hard to pilot a plane in that game, but i could never do it. it is soooooooooooooo hard. Reaver hovering isthe only way they can actualy hit their target. and the people that hover in front of towers... well thats kinda the same thing as camping at spawn tubes dont u think?
rofl......flying is one of the easiest things in bf1942.

:rolleyes:

flying/bombing effectively , now thats another story.

[Kikinchikin]

well flying itself is easy true, but maneuvaring (sp?) is hard. i mean i always got upside down and heading towards the ground when i tried to barrel rollo r even turn sometimes...

[Led]

Reavers need an adjustment of titanic proportions. A reaver pilot needs only two things:

1) Thumb up his ass.
2) Finger on the fire button.

Viola. Instant spam kills.

The rocket damage needs to be reduced versus infantry, and the rocket magazine size needs to be reduced as well to decrease the retarded amounts of rocket spam.

When phoenix rockets could three shot reavers, there was not much of a problem. Now they can hover around with impunity and afterburn off like cowardly bastards whenever they get hurt.

AA max? They just spam it to death. And seeing as how there are usually at least a half dozen of the mental midgets flying overhead, there is no shortage of spam raining from the skies.

Now all we need is a little bread...

mmm

Spamwich.

:spam:

[TheJingle]

the planes in bf1942 are perfect...they are very powerful but take alot of skill to be good at , and are shot down fairly easily . reavers are very powerful , easy as hell to use , and hard to shoot down , EVEN WITH AN AA MAX since they fly almost as fast as a rocket WITHOUT afterburner . I dont mid how thyey are now so much as how they fly I guess , even though its basically like having all the upsides of a plane and helicopter but none of the downsides . But they shouldnt have near the armor of a tank ...AA MAXes should take them out EASILY if they get near them , as it is right now you can fire at one right by you and empty a full clip and not kill it if the pilot isnt completely worthless .

[1024]

I've notcied taht most poepel are voting for better AA weapons.

If we beef up the AA weapons, all the other AA will get pwned.

Realize this.

[�io]

The way i see it there is a few options available.

1- Reduce the spam capacity of rockets from 20 something (been a while since i've reavered) to 12-16.

2- Reduce armor.

3- Change the MGs on air crafts, Skeeter becomes 20mm and Reaver becomes 12mm. (i like this as it slightly reduces the threat of a Reaver but also increases slightly the Skeeter's threat)

4- Reduce afterburner capabilites. (i just saw tonite a Reaver avoid skeeker missiles on 3 different runs over a base, in all he avoided at least 6 rockets and pretty easily at that)

And to those who say Reavers are fine (which they have a right to ;)) just ask yourself how many reavers you usually see over a heavy fight, maybe 3, 4? and that's a minimum, now how many of any other vehicle do you see? :)

[DrummerX]

only thing i will agree with is that armor should be toned down a bit.

As for magazines, Reaver mag's unload extremely fast, and keep in mind you have to use quite a few rockets to hit a moving midget on the ground, from the sky.

Next on the list, afterburners. Why tone down afterburners? A better, and more realistic idea, increase speed of AA missiles. This would mean the pilot would have to have some skill to dodge the missile, and wouldnt get away on just speed.

As for bf1942 flying, youve just gotta understand actual aircraft dynamics to kick ass in those. Being an actual pilot myself, I loved bf1942 for that.

[�io]

Well again the problem with better AA weapons (in this case faster missiles) is that it would hurt the skeeter (and futur aircrafts but that's not the point) too and the skeeter is already pretty "weak", AA is a VERY dangerous threat to skeeter's.

[WildEagle]

do joysticks work well with them?

[DrummerX]

I meant to include skeeter shots when I said speed up AA missiles :) skeeter shots should be sped up as well, just under a reavers max speed with full afterburner would be good.

[�io]

Well if you increase both skeeter and AA missile speed then yeah that's another solution. :)

[WildEagle]

answer my damn question plz

[DrummerX]

do joysticks work with what? reavers? they did during beta, but not very well so i ditched it.

[WildEagle]

thank u *angry sigh*

[DrummerX]

didnt see you question till you pointed it out:p

[Kikinchikin]

whoever said to decrease the reaver magazine, u are off ur rocker. do u know how many rockets it takes to down a single agile soldier? 10-12. and thats if u hit accurately. and lets face it there is a lot of bias in this poll, heck ill admit im biased towards keepin them the same way since i love my reaver and enjoy using it more than nething else in the game. but then uve got people who dont use em and wanna ruin the game for people like myself who really enjoy using them. there are very few impartial people in this poll.

as for afterburners well they are smal lenough to keep a reaver that just flew away from anti air missiles away for about a minute or so since unless ur foolish, most pilots wont charge back into battle with no afterburners. so that achieves the purpose. and as for number of them i see i dont know where u were at, but i usually see about 2 or maybe three, never more unless we're just waiting for a hack.

[David]

I think reavers are just fine. If you tone them down and make them easier to kill with AA fire then whats the point of having aircraft? Having them be so tough encourages others to become pilots too so they can take out the Reavers in Air to Air. It also encourages the use of the Mosquito who's only real purpose is as a Reaver killer. If anything, I'd say the Reavers greatest weakness is the limited ammo it can carry. Trust me, 250 rounds of chain gun ammo and 48 rockets is nothing in an extended fight. (By that I mean extra ammo) If you're having trouble with Reavers, then I suggest getting more pilots in your outfit or squad. We pilots are too often the underdogs of the battle that don't get enough credit for how important our role can be. That's why you have entire Reaver squadrons instead of having two or three reavers in a Squad fighting side by side with ground troops. (Like it should be)

[Kikinchikin]

xactly. when im on the sanc with a squad that has one spot open and we have even 3 reavers already, and i see two guys LFS one says hes all maxes and special assalut the other says hes reaver and med assault, i pick the reaver.

[BeerJedi]

As an AV grunt for TR, i've got no issues with the reavers. I've logged in over 80 Reaver kills. The pause near me, they go boom.

[DrummerX]

the guys that want to tone down every single aspect of the reaver, are the guys gettin their asses blown off. And since in their tiny minds they beleive their invincible, it must be a problem with the game! hehe.

[Incompetent]

so says the guy that hovers over head and destroys everything in a vehicle that only has to worry about 3 different weapon systems to the person who has to worry about every single weapon system in the game cept two or three

[DrummerX]

hehe, look! theres another one!^^

[Incompetent]

^^ look, a person who doesn't realize that having great killing power, survivability, speed and maneuverability all crammed into a single player package that requires absolutely no coordination and is only vulnerable to maybe three guns in the game could possibly be unbalancing.

edit: but lets just ignore that and bitch about how the striker lets infantry have a chance in hell and and cry for a nerf

[�io]

Well considering only 23% voted reavers are fine and you see reavers squads a lot more than you see lightning squads or MAX squads(huh never seen either, weird) i'd say he's not too far from the truth. ;)

Seriously i'm not saying make reavers useless but anybody who thinks reavers are the underdog is living in a fantasy land and/or just likes his reaver too much to admit he's a powerhouse in it.

[DrummerX]

It is true you have an advantage in a reaver, but its really supposed to be that way. So thats why I say, rather than strip down the reavers, buff up specs of weapons used against it. This way the targets.....i mean the grunts are happy and reaver pilots are happy as well.

[DrummerX]

im a very realistic person, and in REALITY, in case you forgot, air power always has the advantage. This is why AA weapons were created. This game is team-based, and you have to have a balanced squad to be succesful against all aspects of it.

-meaning, a squad full of lightnings is gonna be vulnerable because they have nothing to defend them against an air raid. BUT, if that squad has a couple tanks, a couple aircraft, an anti-inf max and an aa max, hacker, engy, etc., it will be capable to handle most any circumstance. This is what balances the game.

[Airlift]

The best suggestion I've seen for balancing the reaver was to make it a 2 man aircraft and put one of the weapon systems on a turret. You aren't really taking power away from it, but you are enforcing teamwork on all the reaverjockeys out there.

[Kikinchikin]

noway man reavers are meant to be an individual aircraft. now go ahead and make some new aircraft a mutli crew thing, but the fact is there are people who go solo andcant always find a gunner.this is why they made the lightning, its one man tank so at least u dont have to have someone with it. dont change the reaver at all. its good as a one person plane. if u want tho. make the skeeter a two person craft, that way u could actually give the skeeter some rockets but make it a two person craft so that the skeeter becomes formidable.

[Airlift]

Oh yeah, that makes a sum total of no sense at all. Let's make the weaker of the two aircraft the two man, and the more powerful a single person... If you notice, that is not how the tanks work. The Lightning is considerably less powerful than any of the multi-person tanks.

Frankly, I don't care if they change reavers or not, because they are all just targets to me.

[TheJingle]

Explain to me those of you who think its fine , why it is ok for the reaver to have MORE ARMOR THAN A TANK . thats my main problem with it , they take absolutely no skill to fly and are easy to rack up kills with unless you're completely retarded . Anyone at this point in a reaver can EASILY not get shot down by an aa max ( hint: the only thing the AA maxes are good at is AA , it shouldnt take take an AA max player of significantly higher skill than the reaver pilot to shoot it down , it should be the other way around) reavers basically have all the strong points of a tank (high armor , dmg) with none of the downsides (slow and awkward , require 2 people) . I think what might be a good idea other than lowering armor to about half , is giving the skeeter some sort of air to air missile (with lock-on) , that would make the skeeter better , and nerf the reaver a bit at the same time .

[Pilgrim]

Reaver's are not as strong as tanks. Well, not a real tank. It is as strong as a lightning, or MAX. That is using the ever important VANGUARD cannon scale.

I have become an expert at hitting Reavers with the Van cannon 150mm. as you cannot hit something in the air with splash it has to be a dead-on shot to do anything. Just like the MAX and the lightning it take 2 shots to down a reaver.

The funny thing is you hit them the first time and they don't move, just sit there blissfully reloading their rockets, then BLAM second shot and they die. I guess no lock on warning and a reaver thinks it's invulnerable.

AND BTW to all you stupid reavers I've killed (15 as of last check, all from a vanguard, all with the cannon) Go up higher... it's called an aircraft, don't fly 20 feet off the ground then be shocked when I hit you in the nose.

[wrecklass]

As the game has matured (more than some of the players unfortunately) I have seen a lot of balance on this issue. Many more people are carrying anti-air weaponry outdoors, and it has gotten to where Reavers (and other fliers for that matter) have little or no chance to hover over a hotspot.

If you are upset because you can't one shot kill a Reaver, too bad. I can't one shot a Max, even when I am in a Max. Once you have chased them off with missile lockon, they are combat ineffective. You've won the round for the moment. Don't think in terms of Quake-like instakills. Think in small victories adding up to an over all win.

Find the weakness, and exploit it. Reavers are up high, and usually exposed. Keep AA folks outside the base to take these guys down, and use the wall turrets effectively. Nothing worse than Reavers hovering overhead, and wall turrets unmanned.

[Airlift]

Do NOT balance the Reaver by improving the skeet.
Do NOT balance the Reaver by improving AA.

The mosquito is kind of like a Lancer. It takes a while to get to the point where you can consistantly be effective with it, but once you do, it is extremely dangerous. The skeet dominates a reaver in air combat and can take down infantry like a flying sniper. If you give them any improvements, they will create a storm of bitching that the Reaver could never hope to achieve.

The AA MAX is a very effective tool against the Galaxy because it is an easy target, and it is very effective against the mosquito because if the pilot doesn't burn away immediately, they are going down. The Reaver is kind of in a gray area where it has a combination of durability and speed to avoid fire with. If that is a problem (and I'm still not sure that it is... note that the Reaver is a 4 point cert), you should address it directly rather than throw off the good balance that already exists.

[Stalker Threads]

There is another solution to this... make the reaver on a 15 minute re-use (rather than 5 mins now). Most of the reaver jocks are gonna find better things to spend points on. 15 mins is also the time for a cap meaning that the same reaver pilot can only go at a base once then he needs to look at using something else :)

Couple that with the idea of 70kpm+ to hit burner and mebbe even the handling of a galaxy and you have a vehicle that IS still pretty damn good but is fish food in the wrong hands :)

It has armour and can get to the fight fast, its also still got all it weapons. Its just a little less common and harder to use well which I think is the main issue we have with it.

To be fair the armour IS high but i've caught a reaver hovering before and hosed them out of the sky with the NC medium assult rifle.

[Chryse]

I find this whole argument laughable and wholly skewed by the people who complain about the apparent uber status the Reaver supposedly enjoys. I say "skewed" because the people complaining about them are the victims, and are not people who have actually flown a Reaver outside of VR training. Here are my thoughts:

1. Many complain that all Reavers are piloted by skill-less people. To this, I might agree to an extent, but only because of the sheer numbers of people flying them, there are bound to be people who have no business doing so. But this is true about some people who have no business flying Galaxies or driving tanks or wearing MAX armor. Good Reaver pilots can weave thru forests of trees in full afterburner without a leaf grazing them and skim the ground at full speed. That takes a good deal of skill, whereas the idiots get smacked down by trees and cannot even land on a landing platform at a base.

2. There are complaints that all Reaver pilots do are hover there and spam a seemingly "endless" supply of rockets onto their targets. First off, only the idiot pilots use the "hover and rain rockets" approach as their primary method of attack (see #1, above). Against MAX'es, tanks and AV troops, this is a sure way to get knocked out of the sky. Against common infantry, an AMS or ANT, or a stationary unmanned vehicle or fixed position, this is a legitimate form of attack and if you get caught out in the open by a Reaver, you should expect that kind of death. Against targets that pose a threat to Reavers (which are most vehicles armed with something more than a 12mm chain gun) a smart pilot would employ a high speed attack with a spread of 4-6 rockets and do so in several passes, from different directions.

3. Smart Reaver pilots spend certs on engineering and carry a repair tool with them. If they get torn up in an atttack run, they AB off to a safe spot, fix their ride and come back. If this makes the ignorant think that they have levels of armor above and beyond that of a main battle tank, that's your problem. Reavers have no more armor than Lightnings, but we can get away easier, and that's what aircraft do. If you're shooting at us with your medium assault rifles, Supressors, bolt guns or shotguns, what do you expect?

Reaver pilots fear good opposing Skeeter and Reaver pilots as well as AA MAX'es, AV missles, massed spitfire turrets, wall turrets, skilled vehicle gunners and the lag monster. I'll admit that I have been killed by my fair share of main gun rounds from Magriders and Vanguards, as well as from Sunderers. Like it has been said above: what needs adjusting isn't the Reaver, but people's approaches to them. Develop tactics and bring along methods to counteract them.

My question is where was all this vitrol towards Reavers during beta? If there were a real problem with them, they would have been tweaked down then. Also, I'm surprised that there isn't a similar thread about people complaining about being overrun by full squads of tanks. :rolleyes:

[DrummerX]

^^said perfectly.

[�io]

Originally posted by DrummerX
im a very realistic person, and in REALITY, in case you forgot, air power always has the advantage. This is why AA weapons were created. This game is team-based, and you have to have a balanced squad to be succesful against all aspects of it.

-meaning, a squad full of lightnings is gonna be vulnerable because they have nothing to defend them against an air raid. BUT, if that squad has a couple tanks, a couple aircraft, an anti-inf max and an aa max, hacker, engy, etc., it will be capable to handle most any circumstance. This is what balances the game.

Well unless the dev team changed their plans without telling us Planetside was originally a ground combat game, air combat was a side bar, Planetside isn't an air combat game so yes air vehicles should be dangerous but they shouldn't "always have the advantage" nothing in the game should(as the devs have said many times every action as a counter action).

Ok now using your argument of balanced squads let's check something out.


Squad of lightning = will indeed get owned by air crafts or bigger tanks or MAXs or AV weapons

Squad of vanguard = will still get owned by air crafts, MAYBE by AV weapons and MAXs

Squad of MAXs = get owned by many things :D

Squad of skeeters = get owned by AA fire fast

Squad of reavers = MAYBE get owned by AA fire

Now before you say that AA fire will totally kill the squad let me ask you what chance would let's say 5 guys with AA fire (rarely will u see that number together) against 10 reavers spamming rockets on them? And even IF by some change they manage to fire lots of AA on the squad they can simply jet away, get hit with a few missiles, land, repair and come right back to slaughter the rest of the AA squad.

That seem fair?

[DrummerX]

read the post left by chryse. ive said all im gonna say, you can continue to whine and cry, because most likely no one really cares:p ive gotta go find a decent thread with at least something resembling a decent point.

[�io]

Originally posted by Chryse
1. Many complain that all Reavers are piloted by skill-less people. To this, I might agree to an extent, but only because of the sheer numbers of people flying them,

Also, I'm surprised that there isn't a similar thread about people complaining about being overrun by full squads of tanks. :rolleyes:

Nobody here is saying all reavers pilots have no skill, but as you said yourself(defending reavers) "sheer number of people flying them" now why do you think there are so many reavers? Because they suck? Me thinks not.

Nobody complains about that because 1- All tank squad is EXTREMLY rare, i have never seen one. 2- All tank squads can be easily taken out by (surprise) Reavers.

[�io]

Originally posted by DrummerX
read the post left by chryse. ive said all im gonna say, you can continue to whine and cry, because most likely no one really cares:p ive gotta go find a decent thread with at least something resembling a decent point.

:lol:

Gotta love it when people defending their view by acussing the others of whining and crying.

:thumbsup:

[DrummerX]

what do you call it? whining, crying, bitching, complaining, whatever. thats all it is. "please help, th game is unbalanced!" "reavers kill me, make it stop!"

[DrummerX]

the game is fine the way it is. if you dont think so, who gives a shit, leave.

[Pilgrim]

wow the recruits are getting a little uppity.

ummm unlike the OF we tend to discuss things here... it's why we come here. It's not whining, or complaining, it's point counter-point. If you are unable to engage in an intelligent discucion then go back to the OF.

Not whining, not complaining, just offering up different POV.

PAX

[DrummerX]

alright listen, i play PS to have fun. It is just a game, and thats what they are made for. People take it way to seriously, and when they start COMPLAINING it is extremely annoying. This is why I left EnB, everybody began to complain about this and that, the devs started making extremely stupid changes, nerfing this and that trying to please everybody, and the game was no longer fun. This has happened to quite a few mmo's, and I dont want to see that sort of thing happen in planetside, especially not this early in the game.

If reavers get screwed around with, reaver pilots will get pissed and start pushing for changes to AA vehicles and such, and in a chain reaction sort of way, soon everyone will be pissed about something.

All a lot of us want to do is play the game, w/o having to hear everybodys damned sob stories. Its a game not a fuckin government, grow up.

[�io]

Originally posted by DrummerX
alright listen, i play PS to have fun. It is just a game, and thats what they are made for. People take it way to seriously, and when they start COMPLAINING it is extremely annoying.

All a lot of us want to do is play the game, w/o having to hear everybodys damned sob stories. Its a game not a fuckin government, grow up.

I don't recall forcing you to read this thread so why don't you take your own advice, grow up and learn to use "selective reading" and read what you want instead of whining and crying that someone doesn't agree with your opinions.

Originally posted by Hunter-R
wow the recruits are getting a little uppity.

ummm unlike the OF we tend to discuss things here... it's why we come here. It's not whining, or complaining, it's point counter-point. If you are unable to engage in an intelligent discucion then go back to the OF.

Not whining, not complaining, just offering up different POV.

PAX

:clap:

/me :hug: you

This is the first post i see from a non vet (admirals and such) that knows what PSU is about, congrats! :thumbsup:

[wrecklass]

Dio makes the point that a squad full of Reavers would be hard to take down by anyone else. I submit that a Squad full of reavers would have trouble taking a base. You cannot fly the Reavers into the CC, and the Agile Exo suits won't last long trying to hold the CC.

The game has balances. Airpower is gonna tilt things outdoors, but is absolutely ineffective indoors. The only good squad is one that has some of everything, and KNOWS HOW TO USE IT.

Making blanket statements about how a squad composed of just one class would rule is a bit silly. Combined arms will always beat a unit composed of the same type. That's what makes this game SO good.

While I agree in spirit with DrummerX, I would also suggest a toned down method for stating the position. However, that's no reason to tell him to get lost. He's just saying that some people get too rapped up in certain aspects of these games, and it does tend to hurt it for everyone.

[Seer]

Now, I don't have too much trouble with reavers in their present incarnation, but what bothers me is this: the reaver is a one person air vehicle, and the lightning is a one person tank. The fact that the lightning has a lot less armor than the Reaver bugs the heck out of me, and it's also significantly less lethal and mobile.

I say the Reaver should have the same, or less, armor than the lightning. I'd support increasing the armor on the lightning or decreasing the armor on the reaver, but atm it is nonsensical. The difference between 3 and 4 cert points isn't enough to justify it, in any case.

[�io]

Originally posted by wrecklass
However, that's no reason to tell him to get lost. He's just saying that some people get too rapped up in certain aspects of these games, and it does tend to hurt it for everyone.

Well first off if you go back you'll see he's the one who attacked first, we didn't just up and tell him to "get lost". Second as Hunter-R's post said PSU is about discussion, if you can't handle discussions where people won't agree with your ideas then don't read the posts, it's that simple.

[Matuse]

alright listen, i play PS to have fun.

Alright, listen. I read PSU to have discussion on planetside, not listen to you call everyone who disagrees with you a whiner.

It is just a game, and thats what they are made for.

Yes, and when an element of the game reaches the point to where people are not having fun, it is a serious issue.

People take it way to seriously, and when they start COMPLAINING it is extremely annoying.

When people are spending ongoing money, they have every right to complain when something isn't right.

Speaking of complaining and annoyances, Pot, I'd like you to meet Mr. Kettle...YOU ARE BOTH BLACK. Complaining about complaining is hypocrisy, look it up.

This is why I left EnB, everybody began to complain about this and that, the devs started making extremely stupid changes, nerfing this and that trying to please everybody, and the game was no longer fun.

Translation: I found this cool way to be l33t, but the devs took it away and I couldn't p0wnz0r everyone anymore, so I quit.

This has happened to quite a few mmo's, and I dont want to see that sort of thing happen in planetside, especially not this early in the game.

Yes, heaven forfend changes in the game when problems arise.

If reavers get screwed around with, reaver pilots will get pissed and start pushing for changes to AA vehicles and such, and in a chain reaction sort of way, soon everyone will be pissed about something.

The slippery slope...leave the current fuckup in place, because if you change it, it will fuck things up worse (no matter what the change is, no matter how well thought out it might be, it will be a bad change...yes).

All a lot of us want to do is play the game, w/o having to hear everybodys damned sob stories. Its a game not a fuckin government, grow up.

A lot of us want to read PSU without having to hear you talk about anything. It's a public messageboard, not DrummerX-Is-Right-So-STFU-Land. If you can't have rationale discussion without calling everyone who disagrees with you a whiner or a complainer, then disrespectfully:

GET THE FUCK OUT

Thanks.

[Nitsch]

I like toast

[Happy lil Elf]

Reavers...

Well when I'm in my AA MAX I can't find enough of them to swat, and when I'm running around in Agile I can seem to escape them swatting me. What does that say? Meh I dunno, crappy luck maybe? ;)

I'd never fly one though, I do know that. Don't know why but the flight engine in PS just bugs the hell outta me :p

[AcidCat]

Originally posted by Matuse


Yes, heaven forfend changes in the game when problems arise.


.

The problem with problems is not everyone agrees on what is a "problem" - and often trying to solve one problem just creates a different problem.:eek:

[Streamline]

Originally posted by wrecklass
Making blanket statements about how a squad composed of just one class would rule is a bit silly. Combined arms will always beat a unit composed of the same type. That's what makes this game SO good.

True, when it comes to playing the game as it is intended. By capping bases and towers, sure. But i've had loads of fun going to continents i don't belong on. With only myself and a couple or few other reavers. Not looking for bases and objectives. But just cold hard killin. Like fishin' with the guys. You just gotta know when and where they're bittin'. Like the very moment an enemy has capped a base. It's fairly easy to predict large Vpad clusters. All you need after that is timing. Which i suppose is harder than i make it sound. Cuz if it were so easy i think you'd see alot more of this. I don't think anybody can't bitch about this either cuz IMO, if you get caught on the Vpad thats your own stupid fault.

I been seeing XP for bases that arent so active, but just enough to bring around 650 - 1000 xp. One solid run at a Vpad you can kill 6 - 15 guys pretty quick and all at one time. If they camped that base for the 15 minute cap duration. Then the're all worth 125 - 175 xp. So lets say 150xp x 10 victims. You do the math.

***BTW sometimes i kill two guys at one time and only get xp for one and was wondering if anyone else has had this happen?***

[Matuse]

The problem with problems is not everyone agrees on what is a "problem"

Thus the point of debate and discussion, not "j00 suk, STFU"

and often trying to solve one problem just creates a different problem.

You might make a new problem by fixing an old one, so don't even try? Way to be.

[�io]

Ok i'm getting out of this thread right now, it's becoming more of a flamefest than a discussion.

Later guys. :wave:

Let's talk about the snipers now! (the vets know what i mean) ;)

[Doppler]

Reavers are quickly becoming the druid of PS, their well rounded perhaps a little too well rounded. Personaly I'm content to see them have their armor not so much reduced but a modifier placed on them so AV/AA rockets of all types do slightly more damage. I think the reaver is more or less modeled after the A-10 Warthog (it has not been and never will be the thunderbolt). Given this fact it should be made more or less immune to small arms fire and either slowed down or given increased vulnerability to rocket/AV fire. Also i think giving the skeeter a special anti-air only lockon missile might make a lot of sense on many levels.

[BigDickMccoy]

Jesus you guys sound like a bunch of chicks on the rag....

I fly skeeters and reavers, and all i feel like is a target in my reaver

[Chryse]

My point about the tanks was not so much their numbers. I suppose I didn't articulate my train of thought properly but, if I am in a squad of ground troops that is not equipped to deal with armor, I shouldn't be surprised that they run all over us. If that same squad had several people capable of carrying Strikers or Decimators, the odds even up, provided our troops play smart. The same holds true against Reavers.

It's all very simple, really:

If you don't want to be pwned by Reavers, bring along an AA MAX and/or friendly aircraft with you if you plan on being exposed to air attack. Reavers are not that hard to bring down if the correct weapons and tactics are brought to bear on them.

The answer is not to tune Reavers down, it's to tune peoples' intelligence up.