my idea of why the NC dont have much of a backing

[diluted]

well.. it seems as though they're the middle children. we all had an idea coming into this, or at least being 3 empires, that they'd be specialized. terrans are the ballistics people, using lead and traditional force. also im sure you had an idea of an energy-using race. much like human vs covenant in the game HALO. well what about that other empire? they dont seem too special on the outside because of the ideas of having to be close range using shotguns or whatever the concept was. in other words on the outside, people will look at them as nothing special - just an imitation of the terrans. well there's my 2 cents.

[Sjekso]

are you comparing the Vanu to the little bug enemies in HALO?

:huh:

well you just wait for what i have in store for you :)

[BLuE_ZeRO]

We are the bug guys from Halo. It's almost too similar. If we weren't human in form we'd be almost exactly like them. Not neccesarily a bad thing cause alot of them looked bad ass. :D

[Sjekso]

ahhhhhhhh yes good point Blue.

Plus I always loved fighting that big yellow guy in HALO, the one with the sword that is a meany. Also.. the vehicles weren't bad either.

[Tolvy]

I agree, The NC are too similar to the Terran. But I think the NC MAX is the best. It has sheilds which allows it to tear up anything without being hurt. It also has lock on missles for air and grond. To take out infantry, you can choose the short range spread, which probably means it can kill infantry in a few shots. Pretty powerful.

Which max do you think is the most powerful Hamma?

[Sandtaco]

You're making it seem like the shield lasts forever. It will wear out, and if it's fighting another MAX it will wear out quickly. Also the slow refire rate of the shotgun, and the fact that the shield slows down refire rate will make it incredibly easy for the Vanu MAX to do some serious damage.

[Hamma]

I only saw a bunch of Vanu MAX's

Didnt really see enough NC to comment on them :(

[Sandtaco]

So could you comment on the Vanu MAX? How light was their armor?

[Airlift]

On the other hand, the Vanguard is the best looking tank in the game ;)

[Shiver]

A lot of the time I think the majority of people don't see each empire for what it really is, and how they are truly different yet balanced ... in background and in equipment (if they weren't balanced, the devs would have to pay the price of failing in a major area of the game, which they wont allow to happen).

I will agree with you that the NC and TR are similar for the fact that they both use traditional weapons. Yet I dont see why that makes only one of them useless.

I would say that the NC are ballistics people, using severe force with the most powerful weaponry. TR are also use said ballistics, but in your words they would be those with the "lead" (as in rate of fire). The difference in armor between NC and TR is negligable (NC MAX > TR MAX, TR Tank > NC Tank) so it won't play such a large factor in this description. They are equally worthy each with their own specialities.

I think a lot of people have misinterpretted the difference in weaponry that each empire holds. I'll just do a quick run down because I'm bored ;)

Pistols:
TR Repeater, Damage Med, Range Med, Refire, Fast
NC Scatter, Damage High, Range Short, Refire Fast
In this case, in doors the Scatter would come out tops, for who needs range on a pistol. Otherwise the NC could use the common pool amp with its Med,Med,V.Fast stats and they would not be at a range disadvantage to the TR

Assaults:
TR Cycler, Damage Med, Range Long, Refire V.Fast
NC Gauss, Damage High, Range Long, Refire Fast
Neither weapon is at a disadvantage, like shooting long range needing only a few shots to kill, go NC ... like spraying and praying go TR

Heavy Assaults:
TR Chaingun, Damage Med, Range Med, Refire V.Fast
NC Jackhammer, Damage High, Range Med, Refire Medium
Again, neither weapon has a range disadvantage and if they met head on ... the only decider would be who reacted faster (remembering that the Jackhammer may unload all barrels at once).

In any case, only the short range on the NC pistol has fooled people into thinking that the NC can only kill in small spaces. Whereas I see both TR and NC as equals and can't understand the half of it ;) They are different, special in their own ways and still equal ... plus Vanu also have their good points. I dont think any assumptions can be made about one side having already lost the war :p

I know I just posted a lot of nothing, dont you worry :D

[Sandtaco]

Shiver, I agree with the Tank thing. But I think that the MAXs are on equal ground. One has a shield, one has incredible ROF. It would be great to see which one would take out the other first.

[Navaron]

The best offense is a good defense ;) . That was a quality post Shiv. Thanks, also I think that alot of the guys who want to infil. are forgetting that the stealth suit can only hold a pistol and knife, which the NC has the best of. That's what I would want, however, it seems like alot of the guys planning on subterfuge with the stealth suit are going Vanu, I wonder why?

[Sandtaco]

I know they're all going Vanu. :p First of all, all the knives are the same. None are different, and second the Vanu pistol/sidearm is the best. It has the ability to charge itself up and do some serious damage to those in armor (which will usually be defenders).

[Shiver]

Sandtaco, the way you say that makes it sound like you meant the TR tank was better than the NC tank, yet their MAXs are equal. I was only talking in terms of armor, where my statement was totally true :)

If I interpreted your statement properly, I wouldn't say that overall the TR tank isnt better than NC ... as it's armor boost will gain it little against the largest gun in the game (being the vanguard) :)

All the same, I'm confused :cool:

[Sandtaco]

Big guns mean nothing if in the reload time the other person can get two shots in. It evens out :p

[Dragoon412]

Not if the other guy's gun hits 5 times as hard. ;)

I plan on using an anti-infantry NC MAX, and I'll admit, I'm very concerned about the Terran MAX. I mean (and I apologize in advance for how arrogant this sounds, but) I'm a great shot - I <I>will</I> shoot first and I <I>will</I> land that first shot, but if I don't kill with that first shot and need to sit there and spend an eternity reloading (courtesy of the shield) while the Terran MAX proceeds to dig in and punch more holes in me than a Star Wars plot... eh, I guess I'm just apprehensive about being shredded by the TR MAX. I'm under the impression the VS MAX will be more of a nuisance than anything else, though.

[Tolvy]

Lets say a NC MAX and a TR MAX are fighting. Lets say the TR MAX does 5 dmg every hit and takes one second to fire once. The NC does 15 dmg and takes 3 seconds to hit. (I'm just making up these numbers)
The advantage would go to the NC MAX because he would do more damage per hit, and probably hit most of the time, while the TR MAX would hit for 1/3 the damage and probably have a worse accuracy (Hit about 2/3 of the time because it is firing faster). The faster you fire the less accurate you are going to be. So I would say the NC MAX is better.

My $.02

[Sandtaco]

When the TR MAX is planted on the ground, or whatever you call it the ROF and his ability to aim increase.

[�io]

Yeah it's RoF and accuracy increase so it will land most of the hits don't worry. :)

And don't underestimate the VS MAX, your shield or anchor won't be much good if the VS MAX just hops over you and shoots you in the back. :p

[Sandtaco]

true, I bleiev it was said that it would take the TR MAX 3 seconds to anchor itself, and 3 seconds to un-anchor itself. That's alot of time.

[quiet]

IMO the NC propoganda by far is the worst,it actually made me like the TR more.

here is a snippet from
http://www.newconglomerate.com/history.jsp

"I bet you've never heard of the underground group of freedom fighters known as "Liberty's Call" that staged a demonstration no more than a century ago, protesting the Republic's systematic elimination of human rights. Quite a crowd gathered to listen until a shower of bullets from Terran Republic Special Riot Police, which killed every last one of the protestors and nine innocent bystanders, broke up the rally."


If the worse specific thing the NC can say about the TR is that they ruthlessly squashed a protest a 100 years ago than the TR must be doing a really good job of managing multi-planetary empire with tens of billions of people (?). The last 8 words could just be dropped and it would sound better, "nine innocent bystanders" suggest everone else really was guilty and in a propoganda context sounds petty(thousands and millions are more appropiate scales and general terms work just as well).

I would have liked something more like,

"Let me tell you the true story of "Liberty's Call". A visonary group that staged demonstrations thoughout the TR protesting the Republic's systematic elimination of human rights. Peaceful protests were met with with ruthless violence from the Terran Republic Special Police. Liberty's Call was falsely labled an anarchist terrorist group and the Special Police hunted down all associed with Liberty's Call. The few that escaped went into hiding, secretly planning for the day that Liberty's Call could again be heard.
Now is the time."

While I'm at it the refernce to the NC as a "crimson phoenix" (same page) should be changed to "golden phoenix".


And could the rank 20 guys be a little less yellow?

Just my$.02

[Sandtaco]

Exactly :lol: Now we know why its not pitch black at night, all the damn NCs are running around.

[CDaws]

OMG LMAO :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: the vanu arent much beter with the beams of light comming from there weapons like light comming from a tactical flashlight and giving there positions away

[Sandtaco]

You're right on that one :p

[�io]

Originally posted by SpecialOpRanger
OMG LMAO :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: the vanu arent much beter with the beams of light comming from there weapons like light comming from a tactical flashlight and giving there positions away

Well that or tracers won't change much. The VS weapons will show up a bit more at night but TR and NC will still have tracer bullets showing their position.

[Kriege]

Originally posted by BLuE_ZeRO
We are the bug guys from Halo. It's almost too similar. If we weren't human in form we'd be almost exactly like them. Not neccesarily a bad thing cause alot of them looked bad ass. :D
WHATS HALO?

[Kriege]

Originally posted by SpecialOpRanger
OMG LMAO :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: the vanu arent much beter with the beams of light comming from there weapons like light comming from a tactical flashlight and giving there positions away
Actually it doesnt matter since whoever saw it will be dead anyway :)


How do you quote more then 2 person in a single reply lol. I'm getting tired of replying twice.

[snipe]

halo is te coolest game out for x-Box

[diluted]

well this did get off topic but everone must keep in mind that you truly know nothing until you play the game. you have a good idea but like a producer guy said in a video, "you may have an idea of the game... but you're probably wrong"

[Zarparchior]

TR MAX = NC MAX

VS MAX > NC MAX

So, using your mathematical knowledge, is the TR MAX equal, less than, or greater than the VS MAX? ;)

[Hatte]

/me thinks hard, counting on all 21 digits, "that means the VS MAX > TR MAX, YAY we win!"

[Mauser]

It will all depend on the situation in which the two MAXs encounter each other. In doors, the NC MAX would probably be equal to the TR MAX, but they would both be greater than the VS MAX. For attacking a base, the VS MAX would have the advantage because it can jump over walls, and start causing some shit inside where as the NC and TR MAXs would have to get in the old fashioned way and fight with the people guarding head on.

But this is not a deathmatch so each MAX should have other team mates and so everything will be pretty decently balanced just because of that.

[Hatte]

I agree, the Vs MAX is definatly not going to last at medium distances outdoors to either other MAX, but if u can get right next to the enemies, your mobility will give you a huge advantage as you jump over them and cut them down from behind.

[darkfireknight2]

My opinion is its a range thing. The VS are that guy standing on a hill picking-off (or trying to pick-off) the other soliders. The TR are the mid range spray and pray guys (collateral damage anyone?). And the NC are more of less useless at a distance but if you get any where near them you are just another smokeing hole in the landscape.
All those !$@%# tribes sipers (or other snipers) will be VS. Newbies and your average everyday FPS player will be TR (newbies love spray and pray) and finnally do you remember that lone guy with the 12-gadge in Counter-Strike? they are the few, the proud the New Conglomerate.





Take away the rifle and a sniper is just a guy cowering behind a rock.

[m0rphiu5]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
The best offense is a good defense ;) . That was a quality post Shiv. Thanks, also I think that alot of the guys who want to infil. are forgetting that the stealth suit can only hold a pistol and knife, which the NC has the best of. That's what I would want, however, it seems like alot of the guys planning on subterfuge with the stealth suit are going Vanu, I wonder why?

gday, im definitely goin NC and im going to be a stealth/infiltrator, the MAG-Scatter is by far the best pistol for the job, one of those babies shoved right into some unsuspecting f00l's back will do serious damage, if nessercary finish him/her off with a knife, i imagine that would take out most lighter armour at extremely close range.

[Zatrais]

NC won't be lacking at range... theres still the common pool weapons and you guys seem to have conveniently forgotten the GAUSS rifle of the NC...

And as for the MAX arguments... theres to manny factors, the MAX whit the anti armor weaponry will most likely kill the max whit AA or anti infantry..

as for the VS MAX, whit it's added mobility and agility whose to say it won't be able to go toe on toe whit another max in a open field? Sure, it will most likely loose by standing still and slugging it out but if you do that in a VS MAX....... figure it out hehe

[Dragoon412]

The problem with the VS max is that it's excredibly unlikely that it'll actually be agil enough to give people much of a problem hitting it. I can see teams of VS MAXes being very effective as shock troopers or flanking a base after the heavier units spearhead an assault on it, but 1-on-1, I can only see them being lunch to the other MAXes; especially the NC MAX.

[Zatrais]

Well, from the gamespot vids the VS max certainly don't seem to be cucembersome hehe...

the real question for me tho is how much armor has the VS MAX sacrificed for the jumpjets

[Tobias]

Also the VS Max has weapons that are all good at a range, just pop the other Max's at a distance, from like up on a cliff where their lesser Max's cant get you. Only thing that scares me is that TR rocket luancher against all MAX's. It tracks and well even the fast VS MAX will proably have a hell of a time evading a few of those.

[Peacemaker]

Ok heres what I think. Some one made a comment about the digging in ability of the TR max. Listen up if i see a target taht is armoured and can not move im gonna lock onto him with my missles and blow him away. If he gets hit and stars to get up im gonna run up during that three seconds and blow his head off with my shotgun. Not much he can do. All i need is a little cover and ill missle him. As for the Vanu maxs i would use this strat... If they jump im slaming a missle up his tail pipe ass he falls so cannon advoid the missle. Next If he gets medium distance its shotgun all the way. Also in terms of armour the TR is the most armoured NC is med and Vanu have the least. This means that the NC is capable of taking both MAXs on but if a Vanu tried to take a TR Max i cant say. Vanus long range weps would hit but scratch the guys armour. The TR weps would miss alot because of the range at which the Vanu attacks.

[�io]

Ok first off :

All those !$@%# tribes sipers (or other snipers) will be VS. Newbies and your average everyday FPS player will be TR (newbies love spray and pray) and finnally do you remember that lone guy with the 12-gadge in Counter-Strike? they are the few, the proud the New Conglomerate.

Spoken like a real mature and serious player. Let me guess, you're NC right?
:rolleyes:

As for the topic now. Trust me a good VS MAX pilot will be able to stand toe to toe with any MAX, especially the TR since as soon as he locks down the VS just as to jump up and over him and BAM. :D
Just like 90% of the other things in this game every empire has it's pluses and minuses, they will be prety well balanced. :)

[Zatrais]

Dududam, don't forget that the MAX's has 3 different loadouts... Anti infantry, anti armor and anti air... dududam...

Anti armor MAX > anti air and anti infantry MAX =)

[�io]

It's actually Anti-infantry, Anti-aircraft and Anti-vehicular.

[Zatrais]

a max suit is not a vehicle but the anti vehicle weps will still lock onto it.. now since both vehicles and maxes are armored i call it anti armor... more correct imo hehe

[�io]

Not really because everything is armored so anti-armor would suggest it is a weapon designed to attack vehicles, MAXs, infantry and aircraft since they all have armor.

And the MAX is pretty much a vehicle, it's an armor suit but it's more or less a walking tank. :p

[Zatrais]

It's a weapon designed to destroy the armor of those targets yeah... if a infantry (non MAX) gets hit by the say VS MAX's Comet i doubt his armor is gonna hold up... sure it won't lock onto him but it still removes the armor hehe

[�io]

Yeah but it's not designed for that, take for example the TR's weapon

Pounder (anti-vehicular)
Heavy grenade launchers are mounted to each arm.

It won't do much good against aircrafts. :)

[Zatrais]

never said the weps would be good or designed for it... i just said that if they hit they'll remove armor hehe

[Sandtaco]

Can you design the different weapons to hotkeys or no?

[�io]

Yeah you can assign weapons to hotkeys and even different equipment combos like in Tribes.

[Sandtaco]

So the MAX can assign the anti-personel, anti-vehicle, and anti-air weapons to hotkeys?

[�io]

Well it depends what you mean by that. You can't have all 3 at once but when you go into the equipment terminal you don't have to select every little item over and over again, you can save the type of armor with the type of guns and equipment to a hotkey so that the next time you use the terminal you can just push 3 and move on. :)

[Dragoon412]

Sandtaco -

You can't have all 3 types of weapons at once; in fact, I seem to remember reading from a dev that the different types of MAXes (AA, AV, AI) are all their own certification.

[Ahemuro]

I have decided that I will be a NC, since everyone thinks they are not as good/are not as cool, I WILL PROVE ALL OF YOU WRONG!

No really, I bet they will have some super awesome gun that everyone is underestimating or something.

[SandTrout]

I'm a lone 12-gauger in CS, or a PARA user. Fits that I'm in NC as we have shotguns and Gauss(low RoF and good damage like PARA).

NC lacks support because most people either want to be able to deal damage quickly(TR) or at long range for sustained piriods(VS) with their assault rifle. The NC are good ad dealing a lot of damage, but will have to burst at long range(gauss) and take picked shots at close range(secondary on JackHammer). This is fine and dandy, but doesnt fit most people's playing styles.

But the NC will win the day for one, simple, reason: We have lego power!

[diluted]

well.. i dunno. NC resemble terran in many ways. people recognize and can understand 'terran' right off the bat. they might not want to mess with a name such as "new conglomerate" at the time and things will suck for awhile until things balance out. (this is actually referring to the first post by me not you all's crazy ass MAX arguments:))

[darkfireknight2]

I think the VS max's jumping ability is over rated. Its not going to fly forever ( as some people seem to think) shure it will be good for getting behind TR max's but the jumpjet will have to reacharge and once it lands it will be fair game for the nearest AV wepon or NC max.
Despite the speed boost the vanu max will still be targetable by any on with some skill.


"My three Barrels will be the last thing you see; or maybe you won't" UssKirov :father: :blowup:

[BLuE_ZeRO]

The MAXs aren't really for dueling. Everyone seems to bring up MAX vs MAX examples. These MAXs are used to fulfill certain objectives. Sure they might encounter eachother sometimes but you aren't going to go around and see heavies dueling everywhere. The Vanu MAXs jets are going to be very handy for certain situations and by no means is it overrated at all. The TR and NC ones will be very good at other situations. Once again they are situational armors and they aren't as versatile in combat as other ones. The main test is to see how they pan out in combat and the only way we'll get to see how effective they are in combat is by playing the game. Hopefully that's soon.

[�io]

Originally posted by darkfireknight2
I think the VS max's jumping ability is over rated. Its not going to fly forever ( as some people seem to think) shure it will be good for getting behind TR max's but the jumpjet will have to reacharge and once it lands it will be fair game for the nearest AV wepon or NC max.
Despite the speed boost the vanu max will still be targetable by any on with some skill.

Oh so you've played this game? Cool! Hey can you tell me how is the speed effect, like when you hop into a wraith do you seem to go way faster then in a lightning? Oh also how many certs did you start with?

[Navaron]

Dio play nice, I understand you're upset the your MAX is toast when it gets up close, but you just have to bunny hop all day. It'll be ok.

[Zatrais]

depends on the person using the max... but yeah standing still toe on toe whit another max in a tight corridor will cause the VS to loose.... but you're doing something wrong if you're standing still hehe

[diluted]

if anyone has played mechassault use your knowledge from there. the smallest mechs can totally own the biggest one. this is because manueverability. perfect example, really! :)

[Dragoon412]

Mechassault is so sickeningly unbalanced, I don't think it's a vary good comparison. Try taking down a Mad Cat in an Uller, or a Couger. Hell, the Kit Fox packs a nasty punch, and you have to be a significantly better pilot than any idiot in a Ragnarok/Ymir/Mad Cat/Timberwolf/Atlas/Prometheus/Thor/Summoner to even have a chance at taking them down.

For example: An Uller needs about 84 shots with its strongest weapon to drop a Mad Cat - the Mad Cat needs 3 to drop the Uller.

Don't mean to pull this too far off topic, but I hardly think that it's a good comparison. Besides, a MAX may flat-out own the other ground pounders -- we won't really have any idea how that balance is struck until we play.

[Duritz]

But this is more like a Medium mech with good weapons against a light mech with jump jets. If you are better then you win, its still even in most situations.

The MAXs aren't really for dueling. Everyone seems to bring up MAX vs MAX examples. These MAXs are used to fulfill certain objectives. Sure they might encounter eachother sometimes but you aren't going to go around and see heavies dueling everywhere. The Vanu MAXs jets are going to be very handy for certain situations and by no means is it overrated at all. The TR and NC ones will be very good at other situations. Once again they are situational armors and they aren't as versatile in combat as other ones. The main test is to see how they pan out in combat and the only way we'll get to see how effective they are in combat is by playing the game. Hopefully that's soon.

I totally agree with BLuE_ZeRO. I can't stand when people *ONLY* use their worst-case scenarios to defend their point. Sometimes the worst-case scenario is the best example, such as with these MAXs, but at least look at other points to even it out.

I believe that the MAXs will be quite even in an open field because the MAXs will have backup appropraite to their weaknesses (hopefully). Even inside they will only be at a small disadvantage because a VS MAX can simply run for the nearest large room and use that like they would the outdoors.

The TR MAX will surely camp chokepoints and the NC MAX will be on the front line sponging all of the damage while the big weapons fire from behind. And the VS MAX will jump base walls and create havoc inside bases. Thats what they're good at, thats what they'll do. (at least, I hope)

[Dragoon412]

Duritz,

I agree with you in theory, but I still think the concept of balance in Mechassault is so far out of whack that it's just impossible to make a fair comparison to PS. ;)

I had a couple slightly different roles in mind, though.

As for the VS, I can definitely see a team of them really rasing some hell, flanking a base and the like. I still think they'd be meat against another MAX in the open, though, and let's face it -- you're in a TR/NC MAX, and see a couple VS troops one way, and a VS MAX the other - who's gonna be your primary target? MAX vs. MAX will happen, and it'll happen quite often.

I think the TR MAX is going to be more of a fire support role, though. Camping chokepoints would definitely be their forte, but I doubt anyone's going to want to get a MAX so they can sit around and wait for someone to come to them. ;) I can see them digging in just behind the spearhead, though, and laying down obscene amounts of cover fire.

As for the NC MAX, I'm still up in the air. I guess it depends on exactly how variable that choke is on the A-I MAX. They seem very versatile, though... I get the impression the A-I MAX will be able to go from heavy assault to fire support quite comfortably. I have my reservations about the other NC MAXes, though, as I've heard they can't fire without lock, and that'd make them useless a large part of the time.

[Zatrais]

Other NC maxes don't need a lock... they just do less dmg whitout a lock than whit a lock...

and i still don't buy it that TR/NC maxes will kill VS in the open that easily... i highly doubt that the VS max will have so much less armor that it can't take on other maxes in the open whit an equal chance to win

slightly less armor dosn't mean paperthin to me hehe

[�io]

No no no Zatrais. They played the game, they know that the VS MAX won't be able to stand toe to toe with the other 2. I mean what kind of stupid dev team would make things balanced?!?

:D

[diluted]

about the mechassault balance thing - i dunno about you guys but when i play single player destruction (1 on 1 duels with progressively harder mechs) i got soooo far in my kit fox and in xbox live i see players tear everything up with the smallest of small mechs. it ALL comes down to the skill of the player. no exaggeration with that statement either.

[Dragoon412]

diluted, have you even played on Xbox Live? A good 80% of the players out there use the Mad Cat. The Timberwolf, Thor, Atlas, Mad Dog and Ragnarok are somewhat common, then you've got that rare guy in a light 'mech. At least a third of the 'mechs in the game are nearly unplayable in multiplayer (i.e. Uller), and another third of them are playable but still absolute garbage (Puma, Vulture) compared to the top-tier 'mechs (Mad Cat, Ragnarok). And I don't care HOW good you are - any newbie that just picked up the game could get in a Mad Cat and take out the best pilot around in an Uller. The only 'mechs in that game that feel even remotely "balanced" are the Thor, Catapult, Atlas, and Uziel.

Anyway, Dio, I'm not suggesting the devs would deliberately gimp the VS MAX - I DEFINITELY think it'll have its strengths. I just don't think it'll be able to take the NC or TR MAXes in a firefight. With adequate cover, sure, my money would be on the VS MAX as long as it could hit and fade. But in an open (thinking an outdoor area with sparse cover, like a lot of the screenshots portray), I get the impression that it will be lacking in the armor necessary to go toe-to-toe with another MAX.

[CDaws]

Darkfireknight2 you got it right on man. finnally do you remember that lone guy with the 12-gadge in Counter-Strike? they are the few, the proud the New Conglomerate.


Loved thoes semi shotguns they tore up some ass at close range.

[�io]

Originally posted by Dragoon412
I get the impression that it will be lacking in the armor necessary to go toe-to-toe with another MAX.

Yeah but see this is my point we don't know how much armor and firepower the VS MAX will have, it will have less armor that is for sure but how much less? And the firepower might just be as strong as the NC, we don't know yet, so you can't say it won't stand toe-to-toe with other MAXs...well at least not just yet. :)

[Zatrais]

Theres 2 wildcards in this MAX discussion and thats well how much less armor the VS MAX has, the other wildcard is the VS weaponry... lets face it, we know dick bout it other than that it shoots purple (same whit the other 2 sides to really hehe)

[Dragoon412]

Dio -

Here's what I'm basing my assumption on: At the start, all MAXes are equal. They gain special abilities, yet those abilities cost them in another area.

The TR MAX has increased firepower, but is lacking in mobility (since it needs to dig in to increase its firepower).

The NC MAX has increased armor at the cost of reduced firepower (since using the shield lowers ROF)

The VS MAX has increased mobility, but reduced armor. How much? We don't know, but I'd bet money that its decreased armor is worth about as much as the NC and TR MAX's respective mobility and firepower losses.

To sum it up, I'm assuming the MAXes will work like this:

VS MAX: Mobility > Firepower > Armor
TR MAX: Firepower > Armor > Mobility
NC MAX: Armor > Mobility > Firepower

Now, obviously, this is a rule of thumb; an AV MAX will almost certainly outgun an AI MAX. And it wouldn't at all suprise me if the different MAXes had different base characteristics other than those imparted by their special abilities. But I'm not saying that my predictions are the way the game WILL turn out, I'm simply saying that they're my predictions; that's how I THINK it will turn out, based on available information.

[darkfireknight2]

Dio, the keywords are "I THINK" these are my opinions. If your tiny vanu brain can't comprehand that i'm sorry.

"Case and point this is why the vanu won't survive more than 2 minutes on the battle field" CiaSpy2002 :P~


Happy Hollidays

[�io]

To both previous posts, i know you didn't say it was a certainty but nevertheless your assumptions are based on pretty much nothing, we have no info whatsoever to compare the MAXs or any other vehicles or guns for that matter. That is what i was saying. :)

2 birds with 1 stone. W00t. :p

[Zarparchior]

No.

Er, wait. That makes no sense...

:spam: :spam:

[Camping Carl]

Everybody go to this site: Kill Frog (www.killfrog.com)
Quick! Before hamma can erase this post!

[Hamma]

:confused:

[�io]

Heh, i watched a few of the ultimate survivor, gonna have to check that site again later. ;)

[Dragoon412]

Dio, you're looking too hard for a problem with my idea and in the process, you're missing a very basic idea. That is - each MAX has its advantages and disadvantages. In a stand-up firefight, only two factors really matter (other than pilot skill) - armor, and firepower. The VS MAX is lacking in armor, which it traded for mobility. There is no reason at all that a VS MAX should be able to go toe-to-toe with something that has superior firepower and armor. If it CAN, there's a balance problem.

In an area with cover where the VS MAX can hit and run and use its mobility to its advantage, sure, then call it a level playing field (even in favor of the VS MAX), but practically by definition, if a VS MAX can go shot-for-shot with another, there's a problem with the design.

[Zatrais]

No one knows about the firepower of the VS MAX in it's AV config...

Could be that it has a hell of a longer range and a hell of a punch + it burns for a while.. the TR MAX lobs nades... not much range there. Not sur about the NC MAX.


*shrug* standing face to face still whit a 5 m distance the VS MAX will loose every time i bet, but that won't happen (least not often hehe)

[Camping Carl]

I still don't see why it's worth sacrificing armor for speed, the vanu max still isn't really fast. Anyone with halfway decent twitch skills can keep up no problem. So its not like it helps you dodge enemy bullets.

[Zatrais]

Nope, but having 1 MAX that's mobile enough to be where it needs to be is more usefull than a MAX thats not

[Camping Carl]

No, that's what dropships are for. You don't walk between bases, so that's not an issue.

[Zatrais]

You're thinking on a to large scale...

think in a base battle, thats where the extra mobility can be a boon

a MAX that can move between firefights fast to support is something i'd rather have than a MAX thats constantly comes to late

[Camping Carl]

True, a vanu max would arrive sooner, but it would also be dead sooner once it got there. I'd rather take my time and know I'll win.

[Zatrais]

You're missing the entire point.

If you're not there you're not helping, who cares if you die or not. Atleast you'd die fightning and helping your team.

Mobility wins wars.

And i STILL won't accept that a VS MAX is chanceless against the other MAX's in combat. No one knows how much armor the VS has compared to the others. Whit more agaility and faster movement and the jumpjets + that burning effect of the wep it should have a fair chance versus the other MAX's.

I think everyone is to hung up on the idea that the VS MAX's armor will be paper thin compared to the others.

[Camping Carl]

Umm... maxs should not be firefighters, they're big and slow. If you're reduced to sending your max's around your base due to poor deployment or inferior numbers, you're already doomed.

And in any case that hardly makes up for less armor and firepower.

[Zatrais]

Look at gamespot vid 12...

dosn't seem that big or slow to me... seems like the perfect shook trooper or a nice mobile defender that get to a spot that needs help to me

and where did that less firepower come from? For all we know the VS MAX weps could be the best there is.

and what is the that in your last line refering to? (english isn't my mother tongue)

[Hamma]

All MAX's are created equal!

hehe, if the designers do their job well then these armors will all have equal chances in battle

[Dragoon412]

Okay, I'm going to say this again since people seem to be missing it.

NC MAX = increased armor, reduced firepower
TR MAX = increased firepower, reduced mobility
VS MAX = increased mobility, reduced armor

Now, there is absolutely no reason to entertain the thought that the VS MAX would have a superior weapons loadout compared to the other MAXes, as you can see the trend is one increased stat, one lowered stat. So, as the VS MAX has no firepower adjustments, it's a safe assumption at this point that it has (overall) average firepower. Now, the NC and TR MAXes have increased armor and firepower, respectively, which are the two major characteristics that will determine the outcome of a firefight; agility is nice, but as the MAX moves slowly when it's not sprinting (i.e. able to attack), boosted agility really won't be a huge factor. Yes, the VS MAX will excel in roles the NC and TR MAXes will not, but when you're talking about a unit that's capable of spearheading an assault, the VS MAX is <B>not</B> the unit you'll look to.

I'm not saying a VS MAX shouldn't be able to take a NC or TR MAX, I'm simply saying that in that theoretical scenario of two evenly skilled pilots that get involved in a slugfest, the NC and TR MAX should beat the VS MAX. It doesn't matter that the VS MAX's armor is even midly reduced or severely reduced - judging from the GS videos, it's really not agile enough that it's going to be a problem for any reasonably skilled player to hit, therefore, its mobility is practically a moot point - it's fighting from a standpoint of reduced armor and equal firepower, therefor, it should NOT win a direct confrontation.

Let them play shocktrooper, let them play jump trooper or reactionary roles - the VS MAX will no doubt be superior to the other MAXes in those roles, but it should NOT win a firefight against another MAX.

Now, what this means in a pitched battle is negligable; it's more of a determination in roles. Is it ahuge deal? No, not at all, but it's still an idea that plays to the overall balance of the game, and is therefore deserving of attention.

[Hamma]

Good points.. personally I am sure that things will be tweaked in the closed beta. (and are probably being tweaked in the internal beta for that matter)

In my experience against VS max's when I played, they were still a force to be reckoned with dispite their decreased armor.

[Camping Carl]

dosn't seem that big or slow to me... seems like the perfect shook trooper or a nice mobile defender that get to a spot that needs help to me

Do you play any real time strategy games? I would use reavers instead (outdoors), because using your slowest unit as a mobile defender.... well, nevermind. The vanu commanders can do what they like, as long as it makes them easier to defeat.


I'm not saying a VS MAX shouldn't be able to take a NC or TR MAX, I'm simply saying that in that theoretical scenario of two evenly skilled pilots that get involved in a slugfest, the NC and TR MAX should beat the VS MAX. It doesn't matter that the VS MAX's armor is even midly reduced or severely reduced - judging from the GS videos, it's really not agile enough that it's going to be a problem for any reasonably skilled player to hit, therefore, its mobility is practically a moot point - it's fighting from a standpoint of reduced armor and equal firepower, therefor, it should NOT win a direct confrontation.

Perfect description, and that is the real reason I don't get the logic behind the vs max. Perhaps they will have advantages in another area?

[Camping Carl]

And yeah, I know they've probably got equal firepower. That was a typo.

[Dragoon412]

Camping Carl -

I think the VS MAX still has several very viable roles; hit and fade, harassment, light assault/flanking, etc. Let's face it - they may not be all that mobile, but they'll be able to get places other MAXes can't, and they're still going to be packing the firepower and armor to use that "oh shit" factor to their advantage against any ground pounder that's not toting something of the high explosive variety.

Imagine it this way: the main assault team hits a base; tanks, followed by a couple platoons of assorted soliders with fire support from gunships and snipers. The base being assaulted mobilizes all their troops to the front line to repel the invasion. Shortly after the battle begins, a squadron of VS MAXes leapfrog the back wall of the base; now the defenders are caught in a crossfire. More defenders pour out, but the VS MAXes jumpjet back over the wall to safety, only to jump right back over another wall and continue firing away. Or think about a sniper; secure in his knowledge that he's on a high ledge and no one can get to him quickly enough to pose any serious threat, until he feels a tap on his shoulder and turns around to find himself staring down the bore of the energy cannon attached to a VX MAX's arm.

I think the VS MAX will be a far more flexible unit than the other MAXes are - what they give up in armor they'll certainly make up in utility.

[Camping Carl]

:huh:

I think the VS MAX still has several very viable roles; hit and fade, harassment, light assault/flanking, etc. Let's face it - they may not be all that mobile, but they'll be able to get places other MAXes can't, and they're still going to be packing the firepower and armor to use that "oh shit" factor to their advantage against any ground pounder that's not toting something of the high explosive variety.

I didn't say they wouldn't....I'm just saying I don't see how this is so great. Sure they'll be feared, all max suits will be dangerous. But people will fear the TR and NC max suits far more. So it seems unfair.

Shortly after the battle begins, a squadron of VS MAXes leapfrog the back wall of the base; now the defenders are caught in a crossfire. More defenders pour out, but the VS MAXes jumpjet back over the wall to safety, only to jump right back over another wall and continue firing away.

Ah, yes. Jumping over a wall, suprise attacks, etc. This has been what Zatrais has been repeating, and believe me, I've thought about this one and I conceed it is indeed a bonus. But is it enough to make up for the fact that the vanu max cannot win against an enemy max suit? I believe not, against a skilled commander, such tactics would be inneffective.

Let's take your example: Let's say the defenders are TR.
Once the vanu hop outside the wall again, (or even if they don't) the TR charges forward, escaping from the vanu maxes.
This takes advantage of the fact that the vanu are separated from their max suits, however the TR still have theirs, the battle is a slaughter. (divide and conquer)
a)TR's run forward, Vanu maxes give chase, but the vanu probably weren't expecting this, so the TR's have a head start. Once the vanu maxes are pulled away from the walls which they used as cover. TR maxes turn around, with help of infantry. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who wins. (divide and conquer)
b)Even better, the vanu maxes see the uprotected base, so they let the TR's go and hack it. Meanwhile the TR's destroy their AMS and max-less friends who are now respawned, out numbered, and outgunned. But this depends how far away the AMS is, of course, and that they have a mosquito or two help them find it, which is likely. (yet again, divide and conquer.)
In situation A, The vanu have lost this fight but they haven't lost their AMS, the battle continues. A draw.
In situation B, The vanu maxes are seriously outnumbered now, even if 15 minutes has passed and they control the base, which I doubt. The TR's come home, and clear them out.

The whole point is splitting your forces, or trying to be sneaky against a commander who knows what he or she is doing is a big mistake. It could backfire if you're not carefull. Unless you can come up with another battle plan which makes use of the vanu's mobility. In which case, I would like to hear it. Though I don't agree that it would work, your plan was very clever.

[Camping Carl]

Perhaps I should clarify one part.
There's no way the TR's wouldn't realize what the vanu were up to when the vs maxes moved around behind them. So the vs maxes jump over the wall, only to find that the TR's are way forward, and out of range, already beating the snot out of their max-less friends.

[Zatrais]

You don't stand still in a slugfest (hell, the don't even have slugs =P) in a VS MAX, that goes against everything the VS is about..

The VS MAX has a burning effect on it's anti vehicle wep, that allows for some interesting tactics....

and have in mind, the booster of the VS MAX isn't a tribes jetpack... the booster moves the MAX in the direction it's already moving.. Now if that booster can be turned on and off in bursts, whats keeping those MAX's from moving forward to let the TR defenders fight on 2 fronts? And have in mind, now the TR will be MAX's less because the VS MAX's will be fighting them and more friends... now the main VS force can move in! see how easy this is? theory gaming.. heh

oh right, according to you the VS MAX's won't be able to take a beating so the TR defenders will just kill them instantly :rolleyes:

Carl just instantly assumes the VS will lose the fight all the time.

But yeah the MAX's will forfill different roles, if i was in a VS MAX i wouldn't be as comfertable beeing the first man into a room as a NC MAX.

Besides, i also highly doubt that the MAX's will be the primary assaulting force all the time, i'd prefer tanks and reavers.

Argh, all i'm saying is that the VS MAX's will have a fighting chance, the devs will make sure of that.

And no I have yet to decide on a side, i'm not Vanu or TR.. sure as hell won't pick NC tho hehe

[Dragoon412]

*chuckle*

I'm having the same dilemna... I hate most of the VS and I honestly believe that once the games go live it'll be crawling with 1337 kiddies that I'd rather be killing than grouping with, but the VS MAX sounds sweet. On the other hand, I like the NC, and although I think I'd be embarassed to use something as ugly as the NC MAX, it could be fun. ;)

[�io]

Don't you just love falsly based prejudice? :)

[Zatrais]

Ye know, i just have 1 final comment on this thread and that is that i no faith what so ever in that they (the devs) will make 1/3 (the vanu MAX's) unable to defeat other MAX's.. I just hope they'll be more or less equal when it comes to taking eachother out when theres 2 roughly equal players taking eachother on.

[Sandtaco]

Or you will love the NC because the Pheonix is a horrible weapon ;) Why is everybody arguing with Carl, he's ignorant. Read his sig, you won't be able to change his mind about how kickass the VS MAX is :p

[CDaws]

The Pheonix is a bad ass weapon. It takes skill to use the thing cause you have to fly the missle to the target. I for one will admire anyone who masters it. Just imagine seeing a Pheonix fired flown through a group of infantry right up the middle just to kill a Max or other armored unit. Nothing like seeing a missle comming right at you only to buzz your head and blow up behind you. :D And there's no other infantry weapon that you can control the flight path of after its been fired. Everything else is either lock on ( fire and forget ) or dumb fired, it's too easy using faf weapons. I like a challenge.

[Sandtaco]

First of all, the Pheonix can be shot out of the air, and second of all, do you know how vulnerable you will be when controlling the missile?

[CDaws]

Yes i do, assuming ( you = ME, in your last post Sandtaco ) that's why teamwork will be essential. Just goes to show if you don't have good teamwork you will fail.

[Sandtaco]

And, if you try to fire a Pheonix into a group of people. You actually bekieve that they won't be able to shoot it down?

[CDaws]

Sandtaco, you must not have read my other post, I didn't say anything about the Pheonix not being able to be shot down.

[Sandtaco]

I know that, but in an earlier post you said how cool it would be to shoot into a group of people.

[Stalefish]

Maybe fire it into a group of unsuspecting people. Fire at their backs, land it on the ground in the middle of them. Fly it low to the ground so it's harder to see for them. They'd blow up and never knew what hit em. ;)

[Camping Carl]

Read his sig, you won't be able to change his mind about how kickass the VS MAX is

Exactly. So don't bother telling me the vs max suit is good, I'm to biased.

[CDaws]

Originally posted by SpecialOpRanger
Just imagine seeing a Pheonix fired flown through a group of infantry right up the middle just to kill a Max or other armored unit. Nothing like seeing a missle comming right at you only to buzz your head and blow up behind you. :D
Sandtaco please read the quote from my other post

[Camping Carl]

So what exactly is your point sandtaco? He said it would be cool, he didn't say it would always be easy.

[Stalefish]

That's what I was thinking. Since when does cool mean doable? I think it would be cool to walk up and slap Gearge Dubya Bush in the face, but it won't be easy. :p

[Camping Carl]

:lol:

[CDaws]

Originally posted by Sandtaco
Why is everybody arguing with Carl, he's ignorant. Read his sig, you won't be able to change his mind about how kickass the VS MAX is :p "Guess I've drank the planetside kool-aid already, but this game looks like it will be unbelievably good." - Airlift


Sandtaco your sig quote is without ridicual and is better how?:confused:

People are intitled to ther own opinion, wrong or right, and don't deserved to be looked down upon. I could say the same thing about you, that all that Vanu technology has fused your brain with fried circuits and has destorted your thought process when you came up with your sig. But, I won't. I'll be the better person and not lower myself to that level.

[Camping Carl]

Yeah, at least mine makes sense.

[CDaws]

This forum has gone to an anti Sandtaco thread :tear: but, he makes it so easy. :no:

[Camping Carl]

and have in mind, the booster of the VS MAX isn't a tribes jetpack... the booster moves the MAX in the direction it's already moving.. Now if that booster can be turned on and off in bursts, whats keeping those MAX's from moving forward to let the TR defenders fight on 2 fronts? And have in mind, now the TR will be MAX's less because the VS MAX's will be fighting them and more friends... now the main VS force can move in! see how easy this is? theory gaming.. heh

Carl just instantly assumes the VS will lose the fight all the time.

Zatrais is worse tho, he dosen't understand the point of my thread, but he bashes it anyways.

[Zatrais]

Bashing...

Arguing against you is bashing your posts.. great.... heh

and well in all your post so far you have just assumed the VS MAX will die like a swatted flie, i see nothing wrong whit that statement

[Camping Carl]

Figured you would post sooner or later, of course the vanu will lose if they're outnumbered tho otherwise equally skilled. You still don't get it, do you? Divide and conquer, take your enemies on one at a time, or split them into smaller groups and engage them individually!

[Zatrais]

As for the outnumbered thing, the side whit the least amount of manpower will most likely lose, but i assumed we where talking about 2 sides whit the same amount of people.

Divide and conquer works.

I havn't argued that the tactic never works, it's the oldest in the book. It works when the situation is right.

What i have been arguing against is that you see the VS MAX as nothing but lunch for the other MAX's.

What i have been saying regarding to the divide and conquer strategy tho is that versus an enemy (and yeah if a force is beeing split up they will notice and counter it) it can come back and bite you in the ass if you end up whit a 2 or more front situation. Getting hammered from 2 fronts is quite painfull.

But this is all theory annyways, time will tell how it works out on the battlefield in Planetside.

Now if i've expressed myself in an unclear manner i'm sorry. English is not my mother tongue.

[Camping Carl]

No problem, and I see what you mean. But don't worry, I don't see the vs max as lunch. In the scenario I described the vs maxes would lose, not because I think they stand no chance against other maxes, but because the TR maxes have med and agile armors to help them, but the VS maxes do not. It would be the same outcome, even if it was the NC attacking instead of the vanu.

And yes, I look forward to seeing the maxes of all the empires in action. Should be quite a sight to behold. :)

[CDaws]

Originally posted by Zatrais
Ye know, i just have 1 final comment on this thread and a few posts later he starts up again. :lol:

[Zatrais]

No problem....

And yeah, i to think the VS MAX will and should lose under those circumstanses. Esp if the TR MAX's have time to anchor down hehe...

but hey, the VS MAX's did draw some personell away from the bases gates/choke points.... that should help the rest of the Vanu attackers some =)

p.s SpecialOpRanger i can never shut up =P

[CDaws]

Originally posted by Pkay
How you will hate the Phoenix:


A US JDAM is launched from a bomber thousands of feet in the air over a military facility almost every single day in Iraq and almost every single one of them succeeds in damaging their target. I'm sure they fire at the missle and rarely stop it... why? In theory you can shoot it down but actually doing it is another story.


Thank You Pkay :clap: :cheers: :clap:

[CDaws]

Good show Zat. :nod:

[�io]

I really doubt i will hate the NC simply because of thier rocket launcher.

1- You obviously won't be able to fly the missile across the whole map, you'll have to be "near" the target first.

2-It's a 1 shot deal, sure you fire your missile from behind a hill and hit dead on but that's it, no more missiles for you so i get back up(if you aim for somebody else near me or i'm in MAX or tank) or respawn(if i was target) and either go find your ass or just keep doing what i was doing before.

As for the whole MAX issue, the VS MAX will have a tough time 1 on 1 against the NC obviously. The TR will put up a good fight as well but should be less of a danger than the NC since the TR can't really use it's ability, either way i really doubt the devs will make the VS MAX a walking duck for the other MAXs. :)

[CDaws]

With the one person having a pheonix senario that would probably be true but, if you have a squad, outfit, or a platoon, of soldiers with lets say a quarter of them having a pheonix and the rest having punishers, rocklets, gauss rifles, and decimators then depending on the size of the force they are attacking could be blow away. So it really depends on the situation and what weapons each side is packing. I agree with you Dio about hating the NC just because of the Pheonix. But, I do believe that in the hands of skilled players that it will still be a dominant multi use weapon that packs one heck of a wallop.

[�io]

Yeah but that doesn't mean i'll fear the phoenix anymore than anything else. A squad with a few lancers(VS) or strikers(TR) will be just as deadly, same for a squad with a lot of rocklets,etc.

[Sandtaco]

Any weapon in the hand of a skilled player could be dangerous.

[CDaws]

Yep :D

[�io]

Originally posted by Pkay
1) you can reload the phoenix

Funny i was under the impression it was a 1 shot deal


Decimator Source: Common Pool
Handling: Anti-Vehicular Missile
Damage: High
Maximum Range: Long
Refire Rate: Not Applicable

Striker
Source: Terran Republic
Handling: Anti-Vehicular Missile
Damage: High
Maximum Range: Long
Refire Rate: Medium

Phoenix
Source: New Conglomerate
Handling: Anti-Vehicular Missile
Damage: High
Maximum Range: Long
Refire Rate: Not Applicable

[Navaron]

Just a thought, If this is modeled after a mounted or shoulder fired TOW missle, these things have a wire tether that leads back to the base (From this missile) which is what transmits the signal to the receiver. However, this thin brace of wire snaps at a certain distance, albeit far, but then it is just a dumbfire missle that has been guided in. So in theory, you have to be reasonably close to guide it to your target - probably in range of a sniper or a MAX or a tank - so you'd better get your ass in gear once that thing makes impact.

[�io]

That was 1 of my points. The other being the 1 shot deal thing. :)

[Navaron]

Bingo

[Stalefish]

You guys don't realize that this is the future, everything is futurized, no wires, no worries. You're right though, it probably can't be guided forever, so you'd have to be reasonably close.

Maybe one shot is good enough to take out any target. That would be a really good trade off, that no matter what you hit (as long as it's a vehicle or person or something) is going to die, but you wouldn't be able to use it again so you'd have to fight any friends the unit had around it.

[CDaws]

One of the advantages since you guide the Pheonix to its target is you can also use it to scout out the enemy around the targeted area. You can also dumbfire the Pheonix so you don't have to stick around for the impact. It's just nice to have a weapon like this that takes skill to use ( not saying that the rest of the weapons do or don't need skill ) and be more precise with a weapon of that magnitude versus lock on, ( fire and forget weapons ), or the old stand by spamming with dumb fire weapons.

[Camping Carl]

What about the phoenix's range? If I remember corectly, a while back a dev posted on these boards, and said "If you ever get killed from 2 miles away by a phoenix missle, that's me." I don't know if that distance is the truth, but I wonder if hamma ever encountered someone using phoenix's when he got to play?

[CDaws]

I'll start a new thread asking about the range on the Pheonix.

[Navaron]

TWO MILES??????? WHO NEEDS SNIPERS??? I hope that's not true, otherwise theres going to be a whole new class of sniper/spammer/pheonixers. I hope these things are fast as all get out, and tough to steer.

(Thankyou yet again for edit hamma)

[�io]

Originally posted by Pkay
trust me the phoenix can reload

Oh well that's all the proof i need!

Well i guess the phoenix will own all the other missile weapons then, case closed. Lock this thread.



:rolleyes:

[Camping Carl]

Jealous? :D

[Navaron]

of?

[�io]

No i'm all for people who give such concrete evidence that we can now close this thread. No need to debate it any longer! :)

[Navaron]

Okay Pkay,

If you say so then I guess that means thats the case.:rolleyes: I do remember reading this, "If you ever get killed from 2 miles away by a phoenix missle, that's me." somewhere, but at the time I didn't realise what that was. Where's chicken little when you need him. The sky is falling.

[�io]

For more concrete proof about the Phoenix's payload read my previous post or check the official site, the phoenix has the same refire rate has the Decimator (i.e. None) while the Stirker has a medium refire rate.

As for the 2 miles comment i remember reading it too but i'm sure the dev was just exagerating for effect. :)

[Camping Carl]

Yeah I suspected that he was exagerating, but it would be nice to know for sure. It would be a tad imbalanced if it was 2 miles.

[�io]

Originally posted by Pkay
With the Phoenix and Decimator you shoot once you have to re-load in order to fire it again meaning you cannot refire the weapon.

Check the Decimator's description, it's a fire once only. If the Phoenix had more than 1 missile it would have a refire rate like the Striker.

[Stalefish]

I'm all for Dio's previous post on closing this thread, this is getting rediculous.

How tough will it be to get new ammo for the Phoenix? If it's amazingly tough then it wouldn't matter about the range, you could let people fly the thing all the way around the world if they only get one shot and won't be able to fire another for a while. (In case anyone's wondering, that is an exaggeration). The fact that it can't reload (and I don't really care what you say Pkay because it sounds to me like you really have no idea what you're talking about) is set in stone on the info page where it says Not Applicable meaning it's like the bigass cannon in Red Faction that respawns every hour but kills everything it sees in one shot. That won't be the case with the phoenix, because it can't shoot anything big enough to do that much damage.

Why are these ending up as debates instead of suggestions? Hamma's the only one that can debate, he's the massa monkey. Don't argue, just suggest, in a smart way. :p

Edit: Now that I think about it though, Pkay might be correct in that Reload vs Refire thing, but if that were the case then a soldier should only be able to carry around 5. Whatever, I know as much about it as most other people. I'm just talking now. :D

[Navaron]

Why do you think you know so much? I'm not flaming, but you sure are dead set in your ways? Are you someone special (ie have you played the game)? I'm going out on a limb, but I don't think you know, neither do I. Stop.

[Stalefish]

I don't know everything, I just think I do. :D

[Navaron]

Not you stale, Pkay the brain.

[Stalefish]

Gotcha. :)