Framerate Fallout: Power Supply?

[Jester_of_Cause]

Hey, I had a question that I would like answered, if possible, before I buy Planetside.

I've noticed that on games like Battlefield 1942, I will have a major framerate fallout when Im playing a map with a lot of players or bots; it happens offline and online - any map. I know its not my connection speed because it happens offline as well (my pings are also a steady 60 online.)

I know my computer can handle it: 1,280MB SDRAM, GeForce4 Ti4200 64M DDR, P4 1.5GHz, etc.
However, I noticed that my power supply has a max 150 watt output while my graphics card requires a minimum of 350 watts. I definetly need to get a new power supply for the computer, but I dont know if the lack of power going to my graphics card is the problem for the 1 FPS while I'm playing.

Any help would be appreciated,
Thank you.

[Jester_of_Cause]

Hey, I had a question that I would like answered, if possible, before I buy Planetside.

I've noticed that on games like Battlefield 1942, I will have a major framerate fallout when Im playing a map with a lot of players or bots; it happens offline and online - any map. I know its not my connection speed because it happens offline as well (my pings are also a steady 60 online.)

I know my computer can handle it: 1,280MB SDRAM, GeForce4 Ti4200 64M DDR, P4 1.5GHz, etc.
However, I noticed that my power supply has a max 150 watt output while my graphics card requires a minimum of 350 watts. I definetly need to get a new power supply for the computer, but I dont know if the lack of power going to my graphics card is the problem for the 1 FPS while I'm playing.

Any help would be appreciated,
Thank you.

>>> Further note: I posted this in the tech forum, but its not visited as much as the General, and its not really a problem, just a question.

[NightWalker XI]

How do you check how much output your power supply has? and how do I find the graphics card needed wattage....

[Jester_of_Cause]

I checked my max power supply wattage by opening up my computer and checking the lable's specification.
I checked the graphics card needed power supply by looking at the list on the box: 'Minimum Requirements.'

[moocow]

So.... get a new Power Supply.

[Doppler]

This could be way off the mark but it might just be your ram/bus speed might try borrowing some DDR ram to test if your motherboard supports it, if not consider upgrading I had a simialar problem, as far as I know if it were the power supply your vid card whould more likely refuse to operate period, the other thing that springs to mind is cooling, unfortunatly to install more fans i highly recomend a bigger power supply.

[Trebor95]

omg you have SDRAM on an Intel machine???

anyway, as ^ buy a new PSU to see if that solves it, if not it's something else

[teratravp]

bf1942 is a code mess and runs bad for a lot of people. PS isn't that bad, it is a resource hog though. one reviewer even mentioned that he had an uber system but turned the settings down to guarantee a high framerate. this is pretty much the way a lot of us go when playing FPS, eyecandy isn't that useful in play.

[Jester_of_Cause]

Bad having SDRAM on an intel?

[Maglin]

Well your system is seriously out of date....

I was getting OK framerates around 70ish with my old 1.4 tbird - 512 DDR266 - and Radeon 9700 pro.... I had to have everything turned all the way down to have playable frame rates in hugh battles with more than 30 people on screen....

Now I have a new system ... 2.4c PIV @ 3.3 Ghz w/ 512 MB DDR 440 - Radeon 9700 pro... Now I play with 4x FSAA 16x AA and everything is turned all the way up... I get constant 150fps in open terain and I got down as low as 60 durning hugh battles... One thing that helps all these games is memory bandwith... I'm running duel channel PC 3500 at DDR 440 which gives me a ton of bandwidth for the extra swaping from memory that has to be done due the the large tertures that PS uses it almost always needs more than 128 MB of video memory...

I don't believe that your PSU is causing your a problem... If you system is stable then your good.... You are useing an older computer so you'll have to kept that in mind.... for $600 you can build a sweet system that will hold you for the next few years....

[Nasareth]

Mag - you seem to know a lot about comps, and I know nothing. I just know I have 1300$ cdn and want to buy a comp that will make PS as fun to play as possible. Also note that I have a 56k connection (no broadband available) but could you tell me what sepcifications I would need for my comp so I don't waste my money and realise that PS runs like shit. I only know the specs on ram and vid cards insofar as the memory units go (i.e 512mb Ram or 128mb video card etc.) But if you could post ALL the specs I could bring it in and have them do a price-check for me. thanks

[Strygun]

Since you've posted this in the tech forum also, I'll just merge the 2 threads.

The current thread is now located in the tech forum.

[Daleon]

I'm not sure if there were actually P4 1.5 mb's that supported SDRAM. It should be either RDRAM (RAMBUS) or DDR SDRAM. If its just plain old vanilla PC100/133 SDRAM then even though you have over a gig of memory its not going to be very fast. Plus a 64 meg video card is not gonna run BF1942 or PS perfectly, you would atleast need to turn video down a decent bit.

Is your system a Dell or something or a hand built? Know what kind of MB? D/L cpuid and get specs on mb and memory and fsb.

As for the PS, 150 watt's is low. But if you do have a Dell, they often have these kind of really low watt ps's that will handle tons more than what they are rated. Its all in the quality of the ps.

[Jester_of_Cause]

Bought a HP Pavilion 7955 about a year ago. More detailed specs:

>> Pentium 4 1.5 GHz/400 processor

>> 256MB SDRAM PC 133 --- Upgraded with 2 512MB SDRAM PC 133 chips

>> TNT2-M64 32MB SDR --- Upgraded with GeForce4 Ti4200 64MB DDR

The power supply is a Bestec, ATX-1956D. Max wattage is 150. I dont know if I trust it much. Should probably get a new power supply anyway.

I know I was ripped off considering I paid 800 dollars. Didnt think twice about it at the time. Wish I could turn it back in for the money and build a new computer.
I really dont think its _THAT_ out of date. I know its not an uber computer, but it doesnt suck. It should run PS and BF1942 easily, but framerates get hiddeously low with lots of people -- and I dont know why.

I'll try to borrow some DDR ram and see what happens.

[Daleon]

Dude, why do you think it should play BF1942 and PS easily? Both of these games can be system HOGS on todays best high end systems. I don't play with any of the adv textures turned on or foilage. I don't do any aa or af. And my system is extremely high end. Why, b/c frames mean more to me than looks in these kinds of games.

You can pull very playable rates with your system, but with tweaked settings. Big battles, pretty much everyone lags some. For me its almost all server side b/c Emerald is a freaking dog when its at 8 dots. As far as power feeding to your agp slot though, I doubt thats your main problem.

[Maglin]

You can play on your currenlt system but you'll want to turn everything down and off under your video settings and run in 800x600 ress if you still are getting bad performance in 1024x768...

Their are two ways to build a system... You can overclock and get high end performance while spending less then half the money... Or you can just buy the latest and greatest and not worry for a little while... Their are risks involved with overclocking such as burning up or fring your new equipment.. Most people never get that unlucky but it does happen...

If you are interested in overclocking here is some good reading..
www.overclockers.com
www.tomshardware.com Good info on new hardware
www.xbitlabs.com More good reading
Overclockers Forums (http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/index.php)

You will want to read and see how and what everyone else is getting and what problems they are haveing...

As far are parts go here is some recomendations if you are not wanting to go the overclocking route... This is my personal opinion and others will of course disagree...:

3.0c PIV 800 w/ Hyper Threading
Abit IC7 or IC7-G or the Asus P4C800.. (these are both great boards but the asus board has better sound as the abit board's microphone jack is unuseable ATM.. They both have great sound that is compairable to the Sound Blaster Audigy)
2x Cosair PC3200LL XMS 256 or 512 MB sticks.. (you will want 2 of the same Ram to enable the duel channel DDR interface of the motherboared)
Thermaltake 420watt Truepower Power Supply
Either the Zalman CPNS 7000-Cu or Thermaltake SLK-800 CPU Heatsink
A good case with good ventaliation. ( I recomend either a good Thermaltake or Chieftec case with case fans )


Here is my system that overclocks very nicely with really no headache.
2.4c PIV OCed to 3.3Ghz (275 FSB x 12)
Abit IC7
Zalman CPNS 7000-Cu
2x Cosair PC3500C2 256 MB
Thermaltake 420watt Truepower PSU

The above is what I just bought for my new upgrade and costed me under $600 and it's faster than what you can currently buy.. Here is the rest of my system

SB Live 5.1 Plat
3Com NIC
IBM Deskstar 40GB 7,200 RPM HD
Generic Case (which I really hate but it works for now)
Radeon 9700 pro @ 391/335


This is all my opinion and you shouldn't get what one person says to get you can go to overclocker forums and ask the folks on their what they think if what you want to buy... Don't really ask for the best thing to buy as most everyone has a different opinion on what is the best to buy.... I personally would buy a 2.6c instead of a 2.4c as you'll get a better EASIER overclock... I hope this helps you out some.... You can PM me if you have any other questions...

Maglin
VS - Sniper
Zen of Onslought - Enlisted

[Jester_of_Cause]

Thank you, I appreciate the work you put into helping.
Im going to get a good bearing on by budget and see what I can push for, hopefully a whole new system.

Do you recommend any online shops to buy the hardware? TigerDirect.com, et cetera...

Again, thank you. I'll get Planetside tomorrow and see how it stands -- hopefully I'll see you around.

[Daleon]

Maglin, do you have a link to your 3dmark scores? I'd like to see how it compares.

[Maglin]

sure do on both questions....

I personally like to shop online at www.newegg.com
They have great customer service and decent prices... Plus if you get bunk merchandise it no hassle to RMA it back to them.. ie.. exchange or return...

My 3Dmark Scores are

My 3dmark2k3 score (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=851319)

My 3dmark2k1SE score (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6570892)

I currently trying to push for 20K+ in 2k1... I have more tweaking to do...

[Jester_of_Cause]

Aww damn. NewEgg seems to have better savings than TigerDirect. I kinda brought up a list focused around your ideas:
CASE:
CHIEFTEC (Brown) Metal Server Workstation

POWER SUPPLY:
Thermaltake Silent PurePower, 420W ATX

MOTHERBOARD:
ABit - IT7-Max2

PROCESSOR:
Intel Pentium 4 2.4gHz

CPU HEAT SINK/FAN:
Zalman CNPS7000

MEMORY:
2X Corsair XMS Extreme Memory 256MB PC3200 DDR 400MHz

VIDEO CARD:
KEEP <GeForce4 Ti4200 64MB DDR>

REMOVABLE STORAGE:
1.44MB Floppy Disk Drive

HARD DRIVE:
Seagate 40GB 7200rpm

SOUND CARD:
<ONBOARD MOTHERBOARD>

CD-ROM/DVD:
Samsung 16X DVD Drive
Samsung 52x24x52 CDRW

$740.18 USD in total on NewEgg, whilst TigerDirect is $782.90 USD

If any of the included hardware in the list above seems conflicting or bad, please tell me. Any substituions, et cetera, that someone could see that is worth it, please help.. heh.

Edit: And finding a cheaper case wouldn't hurt - it'd lower the price perhaps $20 USD.

[Daleon]

Nice scores, breaking 6k in 3Dmark2k3 is always sweet. I'll have to crank up chip and video some to see just what I can really do. I've haven't yet, giving it time to burn in some.

[Daleon]

Jester, I would suggest this case for you:

http://www.buyxtremegear.com/turgamalsxse.html

or

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?description=11-125-201

Covers you for case and ps. Since your not going ATI power won't be as big a deal, so these should work fairly well.

[Maglin]

I would get a Different Mother Board... the IT7 is a great MB but the new 875 and 865 chipsets are Duel Channel DDR and offer much better performance.... Like I said the IC7 and P4C800 are great Motherboards both being a 875 chipset.... That is the purpose of getting the newer cheaper 2.4c as everyone is able to overclock theirs so far to 3.0Ghz at least.... I run mine at 3.3Ghz and am running my Ram at 440Mhz which is just a tiny bit out of spec at the timeing of 2-3-3-6... I got lucky witn my ram and didn't have to go to 2.5 CAS as a lot of others have had to do....

I say get a good power supply cause if you are going to overclock you want nice steady voltages and most cases that come with power supplies have cheapo PSU's and they don't diliver clean power and also the +5 volts amp output is also very important for future purchases as it's most heavily loaded by most of the computer parts....

I was pretty happy to break 6K in 3dmark2k3.... I just barely broke it but I've done it.... Case is all you man.... If you have a good PCI NIC then you don't need the onboard LAN of the deluxe and G model mother boards... Although they do come with more SATA controllers and the Deluxe I believe aslo supports IDE RAID as well....

Those are my thoughts...

I like your parts selection.... I said either a Chieftec or Thermaltake case as they are some of the nicest out their right now and should server you for years to come.... Welcome to the sceen of Overclocking as that appears to be the rought your are going....

Here is the Case that I plan on buying when I can afford it as it has tons of Fans for case cooling and Temp readings on case and also fan controls..... Not to mention it's a sweet looking case...

Thermaltake XASER III V2000A ( SILVER ) (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=7&manufactory=1379&DEPA=1&sortby=14&order=1) its towards the bottom of the page...

[Daleon]

Hehe, Mag thats the case I got. Got it about 2 or 3 months ago. Its really nice, but has a few issues:

The agp/pci slots use these little blue flip things instead of screws. Nice idea, but I've yet to find a single agp/pci card that fit properly to let them clamp down. I think its a total design flaw. So all my cards are basically sitting without any lock down.

The drive bays are great. They use the brackets on both sides of the drive and slide in and out perfectly. I'll never want to use screws again. But the HD bays put the end of the HD with cable facing the side panel. Its so close to the panel that ide rounded cables can make it tough to close the case correctly. Real pain. Serial ATA cables would be better, but the serial ata adapater has no chance of fitting and putting the side panel on.

The 7 silent fans it comes with are defintely silent, but defintely don't push much air at all. I've replaced 4 of them so far with Antec color led fans that also don't make much of any noise and push much more air. These along with 2 blue cold cathodes and the red led on the Abit NF7-S make a nice color scheme. Its hard to tell though how loud any fan is over my 80mm tornado cpu fan.

The fan power knobs don't work for jack. This was a real let down. They will adjust power ouput, so it may be the fans. But from lowest to highest setting I can't tell any difference in fan speed, noise, etc.

The LED display and sensor work nicely. The case also weighs a ton. I was thinking, great finnally a Aluminum case. But its heavier than my older steel case. The front panel is heavy duty.

Overall I still really enjoy the case. But it makes carrying it around to LAN's a serious pain. Wanting to get a shuttle system with Nforce2 mb for that stuff though.

[Maglin]

Your the first person I've seen who didn't like the case... all the reviews I've seen on it said nothing about the card locks or the HDD location or bad placement... Man that sucks..... Maybe it's not worth the $200 that it still sells for.... You can find them for $150 but from resellers that I'm not to sure about.... I'm always willing to spend a little extra just to ensure I get quality parts and also not get ripped off entirely...

Maybe I'll just have to go with a Cheiftec or Lan Li case unless they change these problems with the Xaser III ..... If I'm spending that much for a case it all better be of good design and functionality... I really liked the AGP and CPU extra fans on the swinging bracket.... I thought that was a nice idea....

[Daleon]

Its still a nice case. But it defintely has some issues. Can't see how much QA work went into it. Maybe the next series will fix them all. I do kinda wish I'd just went with a Koolance case or a Lian Li and a water cooling kit. I may still put one on this case.

I found some other gamer forum at one time and a guy who got this case also had same problems with the fan power adjustment knobs. It can be a wiring knightmare with it all hooked up to.

Overall I still the case stays very cool. Still gonna replace out the rest of the fans. The silent ones just don't do much at all.

[Jester_of_Cause]

Got PS, running smoothly on my computer. Nothing has happened that people claim PS is crap for. Three cheers.

Anyway, I'll look for that motherboard at another place -- hopefully I can find it. I appreciate your suggestions and I'll start working on it.

Take care.