VS is not underpowered. Just powered by skill.

[Agent White]

Beamer: sucks, can't get around that, but pistols are only really used by infs, and the AMP is the best one anyways. Uses same ammo as other Vanu weapons, which can come in handy if you can switch weaps in time.

Pulsar: 4x zoom, fairly accurate when fired in bursts. Uses same ammo as Lasher, allowing heavy exos to use lasher close range and pulsar long range. Few do. But it works well. Skill required to switch weapons.

Lancer: Blessed be he that carries the lancer. I carry two at a time. It snipes snipers. It slays maxes. It drops reavers. It destroys vehicles. It one shots infiltrators. Sucks close range outdoors, but not bad indoors if you have the skills. Some say jackhammer is the best weapon in the game but it lacks the versatility of the Lancer. A jackhammer will not own a Max, or an AMS, or a lightning, or a reaver, or a sniper. Lancer is the best weapon in the game. There's just something nice about killing a sniper from base to tower range, then taking out his buddy the max who can't even see you yet on 2x zoom. With two lancers on my back I don't even need to reload to do that. I also use a lancer/pulsar combo inside bases, but I've become so accurate with the lancer I hardly need the pulsar.


Lasher: Close quarters CC defense against zerg rushes it does well. Since it shares ammo with the pulsar it gives you a more versatile combination of heavy exo.


AI Max: Don't use "armor piercing mode". It doesn't do more damage in the long run. Takes 3 clips to take out enemy max. Clip one face to face. Clip two from above with jumpjets. Clip 3 from behind. Many maxes lose track of you once you jump. If you get behind them, you can stay behind them easily. Takes skill though. Not just anchoring and holding down trigger.


AA Max: Arguably best AA max in the game. You can jump on the roof of many bases where you cannot be reached by any ground units at all. The only thing that can take you out is what you're designed to destroy. If a reaver does unload a bunch of rockets at you, continue firing at him and hit the jumpjets. All the rockets will miss + one easy kill. Also: you can chill on the roof and drop reavers as they leave vehicle pad on an enemy controlled base and there is NOTHING THEY CAN DO.

AV Max: Good for base defense, stops enemy maxes indoors FAST. Outdoors, I prefer to run up to a vehicle, shoot at close range. NEVER attack from long range. Most tank drivers will try to run you over as their cannon either cant hit you or will blow them up in the process. Keep firing, hit jumpjets. Today I jumpjetted on top of a Vanguard's turret and just started unloading. Hilarity.


Playing the Vanu isn't about holding down the trigger and running at the CC over and over again. It's about knowing your target's weakness and knowing your strength. It's about picking the right weapon for the right occasion, and not firing as soon as you see the red crosshair. It's about skill.

I didn't get to BR15 by getting owned. See you on Markov.

[NightWalker XI]

I salute you, I wish you were on Werner and I wish you would join the outfit I am making in 30 minutes.

Its is hard to find players like you...BTW I agre with you on everything, let me add my littl section to Beamer part though...

Beamer: sucks, can't get around that, but pistols are only really used by infs, and the AMP is the best one anyways. Uses same ammo as other Vanu weapons, which can come in handy if you can switch weaps in time.
Handy to clear mines, switch to AP mode and get those minds out of the way, thw slow RoF makes it accurate so you cna clear a mine in 4 shots

[Madcat170]

I agree with all of that Vanu are a great faction people seem to think cos one weapon sucks...they all suck...im glad that a nice shiny Vanu player has stood up and said

"We dont suck"

Btw

I hate that lancer

Have fun :)

[Sentrosi]

You have to remember that ppl coming into the game have a backround in traditional FPS's. They tend to get the best weapon and have it available right away. This game is a hybrid. It takes more than the traditional "Run -n- Gun" offense some ppl believe in. Choose your empire, get with a good squad/outfit, discuss tactics in an open forum with the rest of your empire and make it happen. Humans have a large capacity in ability, they just need to be pushed in the right direction several times.

[Peacemaker]

NC solution to you sitting on my roof. Flying a phnx up ur ass :). Have a nice day everyone

Zeeee flaming buttplug! Ahhhhhhhh!

[beavis88]

I hate that goddamn lancer. I made a VS char on another server to see what it was all about...I may have to migrate, that thing is seriously fun :thumbsup:

[Agent White]

Originally posted by Peacemaker
NC solution to you sitting on my roof. Flying a phnx up ur ass :). Have a nice day everyone

Zeeee flaming buttplug! Ahhhhhhhh!


I was on an NC roof for 40 minutes yesterday and shot down no less than 15 or so reavers and mosqs before I decided to rush their CC for fun. Took out a Galaxy they were trying to load as well. Snicker.


Phoenixes can't get you if you keep moving around on the roof, their lateral control is lacklustre and by the time they see you, they are too close to change direction.

Trust me, many tried.

[Prowler]

Originally posted by beavis88
I hate that goddamn lancer. I made a VS char on another server to see what it was all about...I may have to migrate, that thing is seriously fun :thumbsup:

I need some of those.

[Grym]

I'm a vanu player, and I've heard this type of argument posted on the other message board and I don't buy it. The issue is whether the factions are balanced or not.

Right now, they are not. Want proof? Take a look at the daily winner stats or even more painfully obvious, the Empire Need stats. In both cases, you will see that Vanu comes painfully in last place. As if that weren't enough, it's the same story on EVERY server. If the game were balanced, this wouldn't be the case.

Your argument is that the Vanu simply aren't using their weapons skillfully. If that's the case, why should the vanu have to use their weapons skillfully to compete with the UNSKILLFUL use of TR or NC weapons? How balanced is that? Besides, how can the Vanu hope to compete with skillful use of, for instance, the insta-MAX-killing striker? The answer is they can't and aren't.

Honestly, guys, whether you are Vanu or not, be honest and reasonable in supporting some changes to the vanu weapons so they can match the other empires without resorting to zerging the opposition with a 3:1 ratio of men (which is becoming harder and harder due to people switching empires) into submission.

-Grym

[TheRegurgitator]

i still don't get the name of the thread...

[Kikinchikin]

i agree with u grym, Vanu do have it crappy. i will be creating a vanu character on markov, so i can test the third empire out. I was vanu for a lil time in beta, and i unfortunately did not get to test the lancer... but i think u guys have decent weapons ie the pulsar and lancer, not sure about the lasher or the AI and AV maxes, but the AA max is the bomb. i curse when i get shot down by that thing...

[NeoTassadar]

*Salutes Agent White*
You have just said what I have been for a long time. The difference is that you can back it up. You have also confirmed many of my speculations on the weapons. The huge reason people think Vanu suck is because most Vanu are not using their weapons properly (not exactly skillfully, just the right weapons in the right situations). Once the Vanu learn to use strategies that fit the equipment, we'll do better. Right now, but I suspect not for long, (this is judging from talk heard here and by a few of my friends who are able to play) the Lancer is what's carrying what little we got. It will grow.
Hats off to you, Agent White.

[Seer]

While I agree that a skillfull use of Vanu weaponry easily will rival or beat any other empire, you all know that this means the Vanu are at a disadvantage, according to the law of averages.

Let's look at skill as a bell curve. Most of the people posting here are pretty into FPS games and generally very good at them. There are better people, but they are on the high end of this curve. Then you have the vast majority of casual, average skill people and a handful of truly terrible people. Now, the curve is going to be the same for every empire, because every empire is just a sample of the gaming population. A side may have superior organization, but that does not make their individual soldiers more intelligent or give them truer aim.

This means that a weapon you can use with marginal skill--Striker, Phoenix, TR Maxs--will be better, on average, than a weapon that can be utilized highly effectively by skilled individuals, and almost completely ineffectively by the lowest end of the curve. What this means is that a highly skilled VS infantryman, with his lasher and lancer, is an extremely deadly force, more than a match for other HA/AV combinations from other empires. However, due to the fact that his weapons require more finesse, the rest of the curve will have a tougher time using them. This leaves the skilled individual, who can use these weapons effectively, with the (mostly correct) idea that VS weapons are balanced.

The net effect of this is that the VS consists of a small number of overpowered individuals capable of performing extraordinary things and a vast majority of average guys who haven't quite got the lead time down for the lancer, lasher, or even pulsar. This can create an impression of misleading vividness both for enemy soldiers and the author of this post.

Personally I would leave the VS alone for a month or two before deciding what, if anything, to do.

[PeregineDive]

Great post Agent White. I agree whole heartedly with you on the lancer :D Boy is that thing fun to sniper snipers with! It is truely the most versatile weapon available to all empires. As Seer point out - our weps take a tad bit more skill to use compared to others. And the people that have become skillful in the use of these weapons seem to be the minority. I hope this trend will even out in time. I find it a challenge to fight numbers down - but with a good & skillful squad working together, show me something we can't do


-PD

[ZionsFire]

The vanu is a good faction the reason because there in last place
in pop is because one guy says the vanu SUCK etc.

[WildEagle]

word

[Agent White]

I dont believe the Vanu are losing due to balance reasons at all. I believe it is because players are using the wrong weapons and wrong tactics.

Don't use a Quasar AI max to take out another AI max. Use a lancer. Don't take your AI max outdoors to fight TR unless you like seeing the words "Missile Lock".

Don't use Pulsar for indoor fighting, use Lasher or AI max.

Don't go toe to toe with a Vanguard in your Comet AV max. Jump on its roof. (I did this AGAIN today BTW.)

Don't fire when you get a lock on with your Starfire AA max. Lock on after your shots are already near the target.

Don't use your lasher for that guy half a continent away. Use a pulsar or Lancer.

Don't use a beamer when you're an infiltrator. Use an AMP.

Don't trade shots with a Vanguard in your Magrider. Run over 30 of his friends first and then collide into him.



The most helpful thing I did for my strategy as a Vanu was to make other characters on other servers in the different empires and try all their weapons and maxes out. This helped me figure out just where their weaknesses are. When to be afraid of them, and when to not be.

Vanu are superior only when played correctly... and when that happens. you have great advantages over the other teams who have become very comfortable in their "rush the CC" mentality.

[Madcat170]

If you think the Vs are underpowered in any way

Play on Werner they regularily win for multiple reasons such as : outnumber every 1 else 3:1, Kill as much as possible with lancer fire before moving on into the base. it comes down to organisation 3 guys with lancers can tear appart infrantry and Tanks from long range if they work together on targets.

The TR are the "spray n pray" empire
The NC are the "hit em with a big twacking stick" empire
The VS are the "tactical"

Tactics= Always the one that wins

whoever has the better tactics will always win probleme is people seem to think they can use the pulsar like the Jackhammer or some other weapon...it dont work you have to find its strength and use it...alot...

Edit = i know i cant spell

[NeoTassadar]

Originally posted by Agent White
Don't use a Quasar AI max to take out another AI max. Use a lancer. Don't take your AI max outdoors to fight TR unless you like seeing the words "Missile Lock". Just going to point one thing out, here. That is a little hard to do while in a MAX. Run for terminals?
Nice job on the rest, though.

[Jarlo]

The main issue since release with Vanu is lag.

Lag effects everyone equally you say? Nope Vanu is hurt the worst. The Lancer is a precision weapon that requires some skill and practive to use as well as no warping of the bad guys. Lasher is not that much different. The TR weapons tend to spray bullets everywhere or lock in thus adjusting for lag automatically. The NC weapons tend to be close range spray weapons that also adjust for lag issues. The only people that REALLY need to hit a target directly to do damage are VS, and that is hard when servers are laggin out or network code is buggy.

As the netcode improves and the lag improves and people learn how to use vanu weapons, the vanu does better. Won JOhari yesterday.

[Arakiel]

The VS AA MAX is a mess. It's terribly ineffective against anything but air (even moreso of an issue than the other 2 empires' AA MAXES) and the projectiles against air are slow enough that any reaver pilot with half a brain can avoid them.

The AV MAX could use, say, a 5% projectile speed increase. Pretty balanced other than that.

AI MAX is probably the worst AI MAX at straight fighting, but I find that it's pretty useful if you stick to fighting solely infantry it's not too bad. Could use an increase in clip size to maybe 50 or so, especially considering AP mode eats double the ammo.

Lancer's still our best weapon, no argument there. I still think it's worse than the striker, but that's just me.

Lasher is decent. Horrendously difficult to use well, but in the right hands, it's very effective.

Pulsar is still crappy - the range damage falloff needs to be cut a little. Oh boy, it switches from AP mode to regular mode without changing ammo - that almost makes up for it doing absolutely nothing worthwhile at 50 feet or greater.

Beamer is nice for TKing people that block me into spawntubes. Other than that, uh..

The problem with saying that VS is the "tactical" empire is that it relies on the players. All 3 playerbases are still pretty green at the moment, and none of them seem to have really fit a niche of fighting yet - it's usually just a big deathmatch (feel free to claim I'm wrong by telling me how your outfit is teh pwnnn.) With the tactical aspect of VS, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

[NightWalker XI]

Don't trade shots with a Vanguard in your Magrider. Run over 30 of his friends first and then collide into him.

Me and my gunner took out a Vanguard today, I was at 75% health and he was at full (just come out of his vehicle pad) his gunner only hit me once (doing alot of damage) the other times all I got was splash damage, I was able to strafe all of his shots

Bless strafing....I love playing as Vanu

And to whoever said VS loose on every server you are wrong, on Werner VS kick ass every day, a few days ago we had 5 CL's at once.

[NeoTassadar]

Strafing tanks=win.

[Suzuka]

Hey I am glad to hear this and agree with ya Agent White but if they think we are underpowerd and want to make adjustments who are we to stop them?? :thumbsup::rofl:
Just think, explosive magrider beams, increased lasher whip range, more powerfull beamers, increased MAX clip size and power, maybe even increased zoom or refire rate for the lancer:D.

[Agent White]

Originally posted by Suzuka
Hey I am glad to hear this and agree with ya Agent White but if they think we are underpowerd and want to make adjustments who are we to stop them?? :thumbsup::rofl:
Just think, explosive magrider beams, increased lasher whip range, more powerfull beamers, increased MAX clip size and power, maybe even increased zoom or refire rate for the lancer:D.

I think once people move up the learning curve with Vanu, and once all the frustrated ex-Vanu begin to see how powerful we are when skill is applied, the battles will even out more.

I don't want any balancing of the Vanu because:

A. We already have the coolest looking infantry.. Especially at higher BR.
B. We have the most fun to drive vehicles.
C. We have the coolest looking MAXes.
D. We have the most fun to play MAXes. I'll take jumpjets over your stupid anchors and bubble wrap anyday. Ever park an AI max in a tree above an enemy AMS? Ever park an AA max on the top of the giant satellite dish? Ever go surfing on a Vanguard's roof?
E. We have the coolest looking and most fun to use heavy assault and anti vehicle weapons.

Besides, our infiltrators look cool while NC's look like a cheap boba fett halloween costume and TR's look like Scuba Steve. And if you can't even have cool looking infiltrators, then how good can your side be?

[gonnagetyou]

:vsrocks:

[Knuckles]

I don't want any balancing of the Vanu because:

A. We already have the coolest looking infantry.. Especially at higher BR.
B. We have the most fun to drive vehicles.
C. We have the coolest looking MAXes.
D. We have the most fun to play MAXes. I'll take jumpjets over your stupid anchors and bubble wrap anyday. Ever park an AI max in a tree above an enemy AMS? Ever park an AA max on the top of the giant satellite dish? Ever go surfing on a Vanguard's roof?
E. We have the coolest looking and most fun to use heavy assault and anti vehicle weapons.
Do You deem us, the VS, balanced because we look cool, Agent White???

Good Lord!

Your whole line of reasoning is just confused (read: totally up the wall) and have very little, if anything, to do with actual ingame balance.

- Do take a look at which empire that wins most servers (TR).
- Do take a look at which empire that gets the most kills (NC).

I play on Werner, which seems to be the one and only server that gets any VS wins consistently, and I just learned that his has to do with that it has a large american VS population that caps bases all night long (while we europeans sleep). It's true, because when i got to bed at just past midnight, I checked the current standing on Werner - VS were at 25%. When I got to work I checked again - VS were now at 51%.

Sorry for blowing off like this but this is just too much!

I'll try to soften it up a little by posting something that GamerGuru wrote on the official General Chat board. It's fun, it's witty, and I couldn't possibly have written it better myself:

I am a BR14 Vanu killing machine on Emerald. Fear the name Guru. It is your bane.
Ahem. Now that everyone has had a good laugh, on with my post.

After trying most everyvehicle and weapon in the Vanu arsenal, including ALL the empire-specific Vanu stuff, I have the following to say:

Lancer: Our baby. Our one saving grace. Our single gift from God. The only thing in the entire Vanu arsenal that can kill maxs, and kill maxs it does. From any range. They die screaming. Its beautiful. I love my lancer/sweeper combo.

Lasher: Probably the saddest excuse for a heavy assault weapon in the game. Any gun that can be dodged is... bad. Bad bad bad. I'd rather have a crossbow or something, at least those can't be dodged. And I make it sound like some sort of skillful kung-fu dodge. Oh no. Its more like an "old granny shuffling out of the way" dodge. All you have to do is walk half a foot to the right or left and the slowest bolts in the world won't touch you.

Pulsar: At some point during the development of the game, the Unpopular Guy of the dev team came up with the empire called the Vanu. The rest of the dev team, who never liked Mr. Unpopular anyway, decided to humiliate him by giving his proposed empire this weapon. It is the single greatest laughingstock of the game. I once killed a TR who had looted one, and I didn't stop laughing for weeks. He shot me and shot me and I had time to run up to him and gun him down with a shotgun. What a dope. Pulsar is humiliating. Moving along.

Beamer: Did I do something wrong in a past life? Is this one of God's tests of man? Shouldn't a gun... you know... hurt people or something? I have an infiltrator and I used this weapon for all of one day. I switched immediatly to the amp. I have forgotton the beamer. No love for the beamer. (And the AP mode? Oh my god, try it sometime. Its a laugh riot.)

Thresher: It takes damage from everything. It takes damage from the ground, from the air, from the rider, from the atmosphere, from the Republican Party, from cheese, from complex theories, from Barney, and, I SWEAR I am not making this up, from the launch pad that spawns it. When you pull of the launch pad, there is a bug that causes it to make a crashing sound and lose a fifth of its armor. But it crosses water, so I guess its alright. (WHAT?!)

Magrider: There is nothing funnier than running people down with the Kamikaze Tank of Death. Personally I favor the weak-but-accurate rail gun. I rule with it, and its rate of fire is rockin. Magrider good. It gets B+.

The Guru knows. Do not dispute the Guru's vast knowledge, or he will cry and tell on you.

Sorry for the rant.

Knuckles
VS BR15
Werner

[NightWalker XI]

I love the Thresher, its a great vehicle and I prefer it over other bugies, not for anything else because they are all the same really, but just for sheer coolness.

[Agent White]

Originally posted by Knuckles
Do You deem us, the VS, balanced because we look cool, Agent White???

Good Lord!

Your whole line of reasoning is just confused (read: totally up the wall) and have very little, if anything, to do with actual ingame balance.

- Do take a look at which empire that wins most servers (TR).
- Do take a look at which empire that gets the most kills (NC).

I play on Werner, which seems to be the one and only server that gets any VS wins consistently, and I just learned that his has to do with that it has a large american VS population that caps bases all night long (while we europeans sleep). It's true, because when i got to bed at just past midnight, I checked the current standing on Werner - VS were at 25%. When I got to work I checked again - VS were now at 51%.

Sorry for blowing off like this but this is just too much!

I'll try to soften it up a little by posting something that GamerGuru wrote on the official General Chat board. It's fun, it's witty, and I couldn't possibly have written it better myself:


Sorry for the rant.

Knuckles
VS BR15
Werner


The only thing out of balance in the game right now as far as I am concerned is the pounder. Not that everyone else is too weak, but the pounder is simply too powerful.

At long range I'll take a pulsar over a cycler. If you want to test me on that, let me know, I'll come to your server. Pulsar has 4x zoom and is accurate at it as well.

You seemed to have missed my original post. The pulsar was designed to be a long range complement to the Lasher. They use the same ammo.

Try dodging a wave of lasher fire indoors at close range and tell me its not powerful. Its one of the few guns you can fire close range indoors and lay down a spread of fire while moving side to side and have any sort of effectiveness.

The "looking cool" comments were tongue in cheek as I have already asserted my point that we are in fact balanced. NC and TR lead because of the mostly unskilled players. My counterpoint is that if you take a skilled Vanu player and put him against a skilled TR player, the Vanu player has the better arsenal at hand and thus the advantage.

Versatility.

The ability to use the Pulsar as long range and the Lasher at short range.

The ability to use the Lancer versus snipers, maxes, reavers, vehicles, and anything else that has the misfortune of being in its crosshairs.

The ability for the magrider to not only bullseye targets from long range, but be maneuverable enough to run over infantry like pylons.

Versatility is the exclusive domain of the Vanu. It is the reason I can take out a vehicle, a max, a sniper and a few infantry without switching weapons, or shoot a reaver with a tank, or take out jackhammer newbs from a distance with a pulsar and meet them at their spawn room with a lasher.


In the end, it is a bad musician that blames their instrument, and it is bad Vanu players that blame Vanu weapons.

There's only so good you can get with a chaingun. Vanu weapon potential is much greater.

[NightWalker XI]

Hey Agent White, wanna join my outfit?

I could really use someone like you

[NeoTassadar]

:lol: The quest continues.

[ZionsFire]

Nightwalker i would join ur ouyfit but wrong empire:(

[DarkDragon00]

just to say... jackhammers drop MAXes faster then AV weapons, lancer cant touch that!

[NightWalker XI]

Originally posted by NeoTassadar
:lol: The quest continues.

Yeah, 23 members at the moment, I hope someday we reach 100, but first I want to get a base established, a base of decent mature players (most people here seem that from your posts)

Nightwalker i would join ur ouyfit but wrong empire

Yeah that is a shame...if you ever change to VS it would be great to have you along

[Seer]

That guru guy is definitely right about the Thresher. I call it sparky, since I am not driving it long before it starts to throw off damage sparks. It actually does take damage if you try to pull out of the vehicle spawn at over 70% speed or so. It's main cannon baffles me with its relative ineffectiveness. On the plus side, it is the best offroad vehicle around.

[Jarlo]

Jackhammer in no way or fashion takes down max faster than a lancer. Heck Lasher takes them down faster than jackhammer. And yes I used armor piercing bullets.

On the versatility tirade you forgot to mention that Lasher is effective agaisnt hard targets and soft targets without changing ammo type.

[Zarparchior]

I agree with Grym, Knuckles, and Guru on this one. Agent White, your argument baffles me... You say the Puslar compliments the Lasher? Are you NUTS?! The pulsar IS accurate, the pulsar DOES have good recoil, BUT the pulsar does JACK SHIT for damage close or far range but sucks even worse at far range and has a significantly lower RoF. This makes this "gun" (more like laser pointer :lol: ) the worst AR period. Why use a Pulsar for range when you can use the much much MUCH better Lancer?

And why use that PoS called the Lasher? You fools that swear by it will always make me laugh and cry. Since I've been playing on TR for awhile now, I enjoy running into the VS. When I see pulsar shots whizing by, I run for the stupid bastard and gun him down easily with my Cycler at range. If I see the slow orbs of energy from that Lasher, I stay at medium distant and dispath the foe with (what else?) my Cycler. That's right... I can dodge 7/10 orbs - and get no lash damage from the missed shots. It's ludicrously easy to doge them still, even after their speed buff. Either their lashing range and damage need a significant increase or the Sweeper Shotgun will remain much better in close range. And having a Med assault better than Heavy assault at close range is just wrong. :(

Don't get me started on the Beamer. That thing really a laser pointer. Damage is non existant, and AP rounds (in general) are a joke.

If the Thresher's Phux Cannon actually did good damage and did splash as well (like the other two empires... :ugh: ) then it'd be in much better condition. If you made it so that every bump in the road didn't decimate it's structual integerity, even better! Increase the armor so that's it's just below the other empires and you're my friend of balance. :)

The VS do no have versatility. Au contraire, mon ami. They rely on specialization. Their Lancer is the *ONLY* real versatile weapon. Every other thing requires mad timing, learned skillz, and a whole lot of luck or knowledge of what the enemy is going to do. The AMP (for infiltrators) is close range only, which SHOULD be pointless as they should be using their knife.... but that's right! Their knife makes loud noise AND glows! Whoa! Twice the disadvantages for the same price! Nice! :rolleyes: Same with their MAXs. AI is realy only effective against infantry. AA is only effective against air (but all other empire AA MAXs are same, so null point), AV is super specialized. It only really hurts vehilces AT CLOSE RANGE. At a distance, you might as well run away. The orbs move sooooo incredibly slow that most vehilces can outrun them. Good luck trying to lead, you'll miss 9/10 of your shots if you have the luck of the TR. And that's pretty much your clip...

The VS are not balanced... they just have to use a whole lot of crazier styles than the other empires - and that requires brains. I'd say each empire is populated by about 60% of dumbasses and n00bs. For the other empires, that is perfectly okay. The game's learning curve is easy enough, and the only real "tactics" you need to use as teh other empires is zerging and teamwork. Get close enough to the enemy, shoot them without missing while having them miss you as much as possible. Simple. For the VS it doesn't work that way... if using the same style weapons and against the same amount of other players from another empire using same style tactics - YOU HAVE ALREADY LOST. And I think that even the VS fanbois would agree with that statement.

The VS still need some love. I h8 winning so much. I feel guilty... almost like coming back to the Vanu so I can be forced to use crazy tactics. In that case, I love the VS. It's just that since the majority of players are stupid... it makes the VS much harder to play... :(

[Franchize]

Let me begin by stating that again this is an excellent thread. Good points backed up by thoughtful statement of facts with mature arguments and minimal flaming. An earlier post brought up the issue of balance. I would like to comment on this in paticular and on the AV weapons of each faction.

I too have noticed when I log in that in the Faction Needed column of the server list the Vanu seem to be in need of members, but the icon size is related to the percentage of this need. The icons are small meaning that on any server at Eastern Prime time when I usually play, I notice very small icons which represent a difference of only a few percentage points. Yes the Vanu are the least popular Empire, but not by much. They are still capable of fielding considerable fighting strength.

I agree that of all the Empires the Vanu could certainly use a small boost to their weapon power. I have used all of their weapons, either with my alt on Johari (VS) or scavenged weapons I acquired with my TR character on Emerald. I had a rather bad impression of the Lancer but after the posts I have read here, I realise I was perhaps using it incorrectly.

I was also impressed with the posts by the MAX users, as I am sure I have run across several of these skilled individuals on several occasions, and they have taught me to respect the Vanu MAX, which in my oppinion is overall the best MAX in the game.

[Zarparchior]

I'm very glad for your post. I find it very reasurring that people, even if they do not entirely agree with everything the other might say, do not have to flame others and call them n00bz and claim they don't know how to use it correctly. That is the wrong way. Discussing points and giving reasons is the right way. :D

As long as we keep a level head, I will think very highly of this thread and even the people who disagree with me. Even though you shouldn't be - you crazy mofos. ;)

**edit: The Lancer... It IS a difficult weapon to use, though. It has very good aim, but only when crouched and not moving the mouse at all. It's projectiles are not instant hit, but are indeed fast... it takes some time and patience to learn to lead it correctly. I find it very infuriating at times that it does such crappy damage to vehicles when compared to the other empires, but it kind of makes up for it by damaging infantry significantly. It is a VERY effective weapon in the rights hands under someone who's had a good deal of experience with it. Unfortunately, most newer players will go for the Pulsar and Lasher and be exceedingly disappointed... :(

[NightWalker XI]

And why use that PoS called the Lasher?

You must be fighting stupid people, point of Lasher is up close and personal battles, if they shoot at you and think they will hit you from far away they are thick.

If you look at all my kills (not that many but hey) 95% of them were done with a Lasher...in 3 days...Lasher can'y be that bad can it?

LoL, Lasher PWNS the people you play agaisnt must not know how to use it because on Werner the NC and TR know to hide when they see a guy holding a Lasher close to them

[Agent White]

Originally posted by DarkDragon00
just to say... jackhammers drop MAXes faster then AV weapons, lancer cant touch that!


I don't agree. I've timed the decimator, stryker, jackhammer, phoenix and lancer versus a max.

Lancer is the quickest at any range. I'd venture to say Jackhammer is the worst anti-max out of all of them because you basically have to be hugging the max to do any damage in the first place, which puts you in a very vulnerable position.

[Agent White]

Originally posted by Zarparchior
I agree with Grym, Knuckles, and Guru on this one. Agent White, your argument baffles me... You say the Puslar compliments the Lasher? Are you NUTS?! The pulsar IS accurate, the pulsar DOES have good recoil, BUT the pulsar does JACK SHIT for damage close or far range but sucks even worse at far range and has a significantly lower RoF. This makes this "gun" (more like laser pointer :lol: ) the worst AR period. Why use a Pulsar for range when you can use the much much MUCH better Lancer?


Because the Lancer would require extra cert points, it's ammo size and amount is also very inefficient. As I've said before the Pulsar shares ammo with the Lasher, making it a better complimentary weapon. Alternatively, you could use a Lasher/bolt driver combo, but that would leave you with a rather wide mid-range gap.

The Pulsar's cone of fire return rate is almost as fast as the suppressor, making it a viable burst weapon with 4x zoom. If you're doing a base to tower shoot out with someone using a cycler or jackhammer, it doesn't matter how little damage the Pulsar does because you'll be the only one landing shots. Close the distance and out comes the Lasher.


And why use that PoS called the Lasher? You fools that swear by it will always make me laugh and cry. Since I've been playing on TR for awhile now, I enjoy running into the VS. When I see pulsar shots whizing by, I run for the stupid bastard and gun him down easily with my Cycler at range. If I see the slow orbs of energy from that Lasher, I stay at medium distant and dispath the foe with (what else?) my Cycler. That's right... I can dodge 7/10 orbs - and get no lash damage from the missed shots. It's ludicrously easy to doge them still, even after their speed buff. Either their lashing range and damage need a significant increase or the Sweeper Shotgun will remain much better in close range. And having a Med assault better than Heavy assault at close range is just wrong. :(


Ever see a bunch of TR try to storm a CC room and run into a wall of Lasher fire? Not pretty. A pumpkin patch of little red vests.

The advantage of the lasher is that it will fire straight ahead if you are running or strafing. The Cycler won't. The Jackhammer is only good at REALLY close range, and you have to be able to make it through all that Lasher fire before you can do any real damage.



Don't get me started on the Beamer. That thing really a laser pointer. Damage is non existant, and AP rounds (in general) are a joke.


I've found it good for taking out infiltrators when I'm using dual lancers. Infs usually use AMP which sucks if you're not point blank. Darklight + beamer does the job. AP mode good for clearing mines.


If the Thresher's Phux Cannon actually did good damage and did splash as well (like the other two empires... :ugh: ) then it'd be in much better condition. If you made it so that every bump in the road didn't decimate it's structual integerity, even better! Increase the armor so that's it's just below the other empires and you're my friend of balance. :)


The thresher's weapon and handling potential are really good for taking out enemy AMS and ANTs. Better than the other buggies I'd say. Arc weapons suck when you're chasing an AMS, I outran a prowler the other day because the gunner couldn't land a shot on me.


The VS do no have versatility. Au contraire, mon ami. They rely on specialization. Their Lancer is the *ONLY* real versatile weapon. Every other thing requires mad timing, learned skillz, and a whole lot of luck or knowledge of what the enemy is going to do. The AMP (for infiltrators) is close range only, which SHOULD be pointless as they should be using their knife.... but that's right! Their knife makes loud noise AND glows! Whoa!


I didn't say that all the weapons are versatile, but that because our heavy and med assault weapons share ammo, they allow for more versatility.

I happen to have inf suit and melee booster (my personal anti-sniper favorite) and I can kill people in 2 shots with Vanu knife, which only glows in SECONDARY attack mode, which I DON'T USE. Looks like you don't know what you're talking about.


Twice the disadvantages for the same price! Nice! :rolleyes: Same with their MAXs. AI is realy only effective against infantry.


And enemy MAXes. I've had AI cert since BR2. Once I get behind a TR or NC max, it's rather easy to stay behind him. Getting behind is simple with jumpjets.


AA is only effective against air (but all other empire AA MAXs are same, so null point),


I would venture to say that due to jumpjets we are the most unkillable AA maxes of all three empires. Not only can you not rocket me to death, your ground forces can't reach me because I'm on your roof.


AV is super specialized. It only really hurts vehilces AT CLOSE RANGE.


Apparently you've never been a TR or NC max trying to storm a CC and running into a bunch of Vanu AV max comet fire. You'll be dirtnapping before you get through the door.


At a distance, you might as well run away. The orbs move sooooo incredibly slow that most vehilces can outrun them.


Read my original post. It's hard to run away when I'm on the roof of your Vanguard, or standing on top of your deployed AMS. The Comet is a close range MAX. You don't go toe to toe with a lightning from half a mile away with a Vanu comet MAX. Close distance in run mode, use your jumpjets and unload while directly above him.


Good luck trying to lead, you'll miss 9/10 of your shots if you have the luck of the TR. And that's pretty much your clip...


Sorry, I know how to play.


The VS are not balanced... they just have to use a whole lot of crazier styles than the other empires - and that requires brains.


Thank you for rephrasing the title of my thread.


I'd say each empire is populated by about 60% of dumbasses and n00bs. For the other empires, that is perfectly okay. The game's learning curve is easy enough, and the only real "tactics" you need to use as teh other empires is zerging and teamwork. Get close enough to the enemy, shoot them without missing while having them miss you as much as possible. Simple. For the VS it doesn't work that way... if using the same style weapons and against the same amount of other players from another empire using same style tactics - YOU HAVE ALREADY LOST. And I think that even the VS fanbois would agree with that statement.


Once again, you're preaching the choir. As I have already stated, Vanu weapon potential is far greater than the others, but requires advanced skill to take advantage of.


The VS still need some love. I h8 winning so much. I feel guilty...


Come to Markov and send me a tell. I'll be sure to make you feel better.


almost like coming back to the Vanu so I can be forced to use crazy tactics. In that case, I love the VS. It's just that since the majority of players are stupid... it makes the VS much harder to play... :(

Once again, agreed. Once you learn to use Vanu weapons, the viability of zerg rushing by NC and TR diminishes.

[FearTheAtlas]

Vanu are hella good, but as others have said most players haven't figured the tactics to be successful. I've seen a guy w/ 2 lancers rush a guarded CC like he had a Mini-Chaingun or Jackhammer, it just dosen't do. And speaking of the Lancer I grab those things like free money, as soon as I get Hvy. Weapons I'm finding some freaking ammo and using it. Vanu=Underrated