Another heavy assault post (dont flame me)

[Kikinchikin]

Ok first of all I don't want a nerf on anything. so dont say i do. Basically what i wanted to say is that IMO the VS and TR Heavy assault weapons require a lot more skill than the NC weapon, the jackhammer. Vs especially, becuz the bullets move soooo slow its hard to hit someone. The jackhammer is a tribareled shotgun, meaning it fires a wide range of shots, dealing high damage. You basically have to be facing the completely opposite way to miss a target with one. I would just like to improve the other two HA weapons a lil in the following ways, just so they can be nearly equal.

For TR tighten the CoF just a tad.
For Lasher (VS) maybe increase the speed of the bullets a little.

Now i can kinda see the compensation on the TR/NC part. I've noticed that its really hard to take out a max with the jackhammer even with armor bullets, while i can take one out with the chaingun armor bullets in abuot 70 shots, (goes fast with the chaingun) but still i think its a lil unbalanced.

[ZionsFire]

Each empire has its own strenghts and weaknesses

[Searo]

Lasher is deadly by knowing where the target's gonna break to. Fire one shot directly at them, then lead them on both sides, so if they move away from the first one, they get nailed by another. It's very deadly against laggers, and extremely nasty in close close quarters.

[1024]

The jackhammer may be great at damage, but it cant shoot farther than a midget can jump.

[WildEagle]

indeed

[Onizuka]

Definatley. I mean with the jackhammer, in close quarters im a vs/tr crazy killer. But in outside battles uggg

Ill see a tr on a hill firing at me with a cycler, and the shots are pretty accurate. I fire back obviously not doing much because the bullets are all missing him. So ill run up the hill firing jamming the F1 key, and by time i reach the top of the hill im almost dead.

Yuck

[Ducimus]

Originally posted by ReaperofDeath27
Each empire has its own strenghts and weaknesses

By that logic the TR MAX's are balanced and a nerf is not neccessary.

Anyway, I dunno about the VS HA weapon, but im quite positive that the TR HA needs to have its COF tightned up. Its too large, right now the Chainguns COF is not that much better than an AMP.

[Jaged]

What exactly is wrong with the Jackhammer pwning? NC is the best. We should pwn. :D

[NightWalker XI]

I like my Lasher just as it is, all you guys need to realise is that HA is emant to be used indoors, thats why they are either slow of innacturate, so stop whinning

[Jarlo]

The chaingun COF is laughable, I was entering a base courtyard and some guy was near the base doors spraying bullets all over the damn place 8)

[Led]

Ummm... you cannot just 'spray' and kill with the hammer. You have to aim, and aim well, or you will be fried against anyone with reasonable skill.

Hell, several times last night I was ripped apart by a chaingunner at point blank range just because I missed one shot.

[Madcat170]

Any1 that dont like the lasher projectile speeds now are sure lucky they didnt use it in beta you could just move out of the way of the shots only getting the lashy bit

The lasher is fine atm imo

Chaingun is utterly useless at anything other than 3mm away but so is the jackhammer..so....

The Hvy Assualt class is probbally the most balanced class

[kidriot]

HEH HEH HEH

need to be creative w/the way you use your weapons.

any weapon can kill. just learn where to be when u shoot it.

HEH HEH HEH

[Jarlo]

Thanks for the constructive post Kidriot...

I play NC and VS and trust me the jackhammer is much more forgiving on Lag. Once you are in close where it is most effective at least.

Nothing beats the fun of NC Scattercannon max though, ooooo the carnage!!

[kidriot]

i trust you

[Warborn]

Originally posted by Led
Ummm... you cannot just 'spray' and kill with the hammer. You have to aim, and aim well, or you will be fried against anyone with reasonable skill.

You need to place the crosshairs over the target and click the mouse button. That's it. You don't need to take into account recoil, given that it's a shotgun, so you can run and gun Quake-style without any significant skill requirement involved. Considering that it's also a close range weapon, hitting the target with it is also about as brainless as one could imagine. Anyone who does not kill infantry with ease while using a jackhammer at close range should seriously reevaluate their role in PS.

Hell, several times last night I was ripped apart by a chaingunner at point blank range just because I missed one shot.

Well, when dealing with heavy weapons, the more skilled user will generally be the one that walks away.

[Ducimus]

Just a few humble (meaning not wanting to flame anyone) disagreements.

As per the comment about heavy weapons being balanced due to their range. I disagree. While i havent used a lasher, i have used a chaingun, and wanting to see what its like on the giving end of the boomstick O'Death (cause this weapon kills me more than anythign else) the jackhammer.

I agree that the jackhammer does take a reasonable skill in Aiming. Although, its not like aiming a rifle. Generally speaking in Close Quarters Combat, the jackhammer is really an awesome weapon. Its ROF, combined with how hard it hits for is nice. Yes its a short range weapon, which should be its inheirant shortcoming. Problem herein on the recieving end is that although this weapon isn't all too useful out doors, it is extremely useful where infantry fighting counts most. In towers and bases. Anyway, having been on the recieving end, i created a BR3 character on another server, and in one instant action, racked up 19 kills in about 5 mins defending a tower. I died twice. In my mind, that confirmed to me what this weapon is capable of. I could never have accomplished this with a chaingun given the same circumstance.

The problem with the chaingun is, once gain its COF. To better manage it, ive found that you either have to crouch (which your not always able to do given how fast fighting can occur), and/or fire in short bursts. The problem with bursting, is that to burst properly.. that is to say, the time between when you first fire, and when the COF enlarges too much is EXTREMLY short. In my mind, this really limits the damage capacity of the weapon since your not barfing as much lead as you could. If you do not burst, the COF enlarges tremendously. Last night i thought i had the drop on this venu, he was just around the corner. I poped out around the corner and quite litteraly jammed the muzzle of my chaingun into his chest and opened fire.

How close he was to dying i do not know. But this much i do know, he returned fire with a med assult weapon and outdamaged me, hence killing me. How could he possible outdamage me at point blank range with a chaingun? The COF had bloomed out so large, that i was hitting the wall behind him with what can percievable be 50 to 75% of the rounds i was firing. Now when im at point blank range, and standing still, and that weapon does not chew him up like roadkill smeared on the highway, then something is askew here. GIven those circumstances, by all rights i should have dropped him. If i had jackhammer, a cycler, a sweeper, hell, maybe even a punisher, i would have dropped him.

The HA weapons are not balanced, of this im certain.

[SpacemanSpiff]

Ducimus - Good observations and well stated. I, too, have experimented with all 3 heavy weapons and have run into similar experiences. No flames should be forthcoming in your direction at all. I prefer the Jackhammer of the three, for one reason only. For the most part (and this CAN be argued), I feel that base/tower caps are ultimately won with close range combat. So, I am a TR that regularly stock piles 18 Jackhammers in my locker. Problem solved. :)

[Led]

Originally posted by Warborn
You need to place the crosshairs over the target and click the mouse button. That's it. You don't need to take into account recoil, given that it's a shotgun, so you can run and gun Quake-style without any significant skill requirement involved. Considering that it's also a close range weapon, hitting the target with it is also about as brainless as one could imagine. Anyone who does not kill infantry with ease while using a jackhammer at close range should seriously reevaluate their role in PS.

Yeah, you could say the same thing about using any heavy weapon, hell, even a rifle in close quarters.


Well, when dealing with heavy weapons, the more skilled user will generally be the one that walks away.

Oooh, harsh. No need to get flamey.

[Plato]

More TR are using the chaingun now. It is a viable weapon but not for 4 certs.

It can kill stuff at medium range if you crouch and fire in 5-6 round bursts, get up, stafe, crouch, burst and repeat.

At close range it's terrible because you MUST crouch for the CoF to come back down quickly between bursts. Half the reason the TR pick them up is to trade it for a Jackhammer.

I've noticed that 90% of NC are now carrying the Jackhammer so keep your distance. I normally play a DC max so this is good for me. Many NC troops just don't outfit themselves against Max units. They are just jackhammer / gauss and a shed load of ammo. Oh and one plasma grenade.

[Tricky]

Awesome post Ducimus,

I'd respond but my feelings have pretty much been covered by you and Spiff. I too have quite the collection of Jackhammers in my locker.

[Airlift]

Leave the jackhammer alone, I have a locker full of them. I have to say, there is no finer moment in the game than when you kill an NC with a Sweeper and then leave it on the corpse in place of his Jackhammer.

[SpacemanSpiff]

Originally posted by Airlift
Leave the jackhammer alone, I have a locker full of them. I have to say, there is no finer moment in the game than when you kill an NC with a Sweeper and then leave it on the corpse in place of his Jackhammer.

Showoff. :p

[Kikinchikin]

Led not everywepaon is a point and click weapon. Jackahmmer has no problems with CoF at all u can hold down the mouse and just move around and be accurate. Chaingun is a more skilled HA weapon IMO. I still love it, even tho it aint as good as jackhammer. And im gonna start filling up a locker that sounds like a bueno idea.

oh and about the skill thing, that is not true a lot of the time. Few days ago i come up on an NC agile suit just like me. His back is facing me and I open up on him at point blank range with my chaingun, after 2 seconds he turns around strafes and fires two shots killing me. I'm sure he was wounded, but thats not fair.

[Warborn]

Originally posted by Led
Yeah, you could say the same thing about using any heavy weapon, hell, even a rifle in close quarters.

Nah, because rifles require you to keep the rifle trained on the target, and take a good few bullets to put your enemy down. Depending on the range, you may also have to adjust for recoil. With the jackhammer, it's point and click a couple times, end of story.



Oooh, harsh. No need to get flamey.

Who's flamey? You're just being overly sensitive because you've grown attached to the jackhammer and want to pass your success with it off as pure skill, rather than the weapon doing the majority of the work.

[SpacemanSpiff]

Originally posted by Lilbird2431
Led not everywepaon is a point and click weapon. Jackahmmer has no problems with CoF at all u can hold down the mouse and just move around and be accurate. Chaingun is a more skilled HA weapon IMO. I still love it, even tho it aint as good as jackhammer. And im gonna start filling up a locker that sounds like a bueno idea.

oh and about the skill thing, that is not true a lot of the time. Few days ago i come up on an NC agile suit just like me. His back is facing me and I open up on him at point blank range with my chaingun, after 2 seconds he turns around strafes and fires two shots killing me. I'm sure he was wounded, but thats not fair.

This particular scenario happens quite often. 2 seconds seems a bit long, but you know a weapon is overpowered when you're unleashing the chaingun at point blank range to a person's back and still get owned when he turns around with the Jackhammer. My only wish is for the chaingun to someday get better accuracy in medium range battles (i.e. - lower recoil/minimize CoF displacement). One shouldn't have to fire any kind of chain gun in bursts for optimal efficiency. That's not how a chaingun works. Chaingun ought to = press the trigger and spray for ultimate crowd control. Jackhammer ought to = most deadly close range weapon in the game. In fact, it does.

[Plato]

Given that the weapon is supposed to be a beefed up cycler and that the chaingun would be the ultimate killing machine if you could effectively spray with it- maybe the weapon should be scrapped entirely...

Let's have a TR Jackhammer that's less damage per shot but high RoF :p Call it the Thunderhammer!

[SpacemanSpiff]

Originally posted by Plato
Given that the weapon is supposed to be a beefed up cycler and that the chaingun would be the ultimate killing machine if you could effectively spray with it- maybe the weapon should be scrapped entirely...

Let's have a TR Jackhammer that's less damage per shot but high RoF :p Call it the Thunderhammer!

LOL! :D

[Led]

Originally posted by Warborn
Nah, because rifles require you to keep the rifle trained on the target, and take a good few bullets to put your enemy down. Depending on the range, you may also have to adjust for recoil. With the jackhammer, it's point and click a couple times, end of story.





Who's flamey? You're just being overly sensitive because you've grown attached to the jackhammer and want to pass your success with it off as pure skill, rather than the weapon doing the majority of the work.

You are not speaking any sense. You make it sound as if just holding down the fire button with the hammer makes things fall over dead no matter where they are.

And by extrapolation, anyone that uses a sweeper also has no skill. Or chainguns. Or lashers. Or anything that works best up close.

By the way, can the condescending attitude.

[tmartinez72]

During beta as a TR, I don't think I ever died to a Lasher indoors, so I'll just leave that one out. And yes, people fired them at me indoors.

As for the jackhammer, it's fine. Tho I rather go against a CG than a jackhammer.

Problem with a jackhammer, the range is incredibly short. As short as the CG. When you kill a jackhammer wielder with a beamer at 15 meters, you own them. Unfortunately, you do not have that luxury inside.

Here's the mentality with CG wielders I run into. Run down the hallway with the mouse button depressed and never stop. I don't know HOW many times a CG wielder would run by me spraying. I'd turn around and shoot him in the back with a sweeper. I'm sure he's thinking, "This piece of shit. CG sucks".

Worse yet, he's on the hillside spraying everyone and wielding it like leaf-blower. After the VS stop from laughing, we send the infil to knife him.

Not that the jackhammers don't this, they just seem to do it less often.

The lasher is laughable. I play VS now, and tried it for kicks. Dumped it. Perhaps I was jaded never being killed by it in beta.

[Warborn]

Originally posted by Led
You are not speaking any sense. You make it sound as if just holding down the fire button with the hammer makes things fall over dead no matter where they are.

I'd be lying if I said holding down the fire button made things fall over dead. You need to point the gun at the target and strafe around while holding the fire button. That makes things fall over dead, with little actual skill involved.

And by extrapolation, anyone that uses a sweeper also has no skill. Or chainguns. Or lashers. Or anything that works best up close.

I think you mean interpolate, not extrapolate.

Also, no, you're completely wrong. All of the weapons you listed function very differently from the jackhammer, with the exception of the sweeper, which is similar, but fires much more slowly, can't fire three rounds in near-union, and has a smaller clip. It is similar, but due to those limitations, does not provide the same results as the jackhammer.

By the way, can the condescending attitude.

My "condescending attitude" only seems as such because you're being arrogant about this.

[Madcat170]

Originally Posted by somebody else
The lasher is laughable. I play VS now, and tried it for kicks. Dumped it. Perhaps I was jaded never being killed by it in beta.

yet you have a pic of a vanu with one in your sig?

[Ducimus]

In related news, Spork had this to say about the Jackhammer

I'm not aware of any current plans, but I have made the Designers aware of the current feedback regarding the Jackhammer.

In response to this thread http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/planetside/Forum7/HTML/005582.html

Which was asking if they had any plans for the Jackhammer. So in other words, they maybe looking into it. :D

[Led]

Fine, fine, yall can go on whining about the effectiveness of a stupid simple shotgun. Of course, this is all in retribution about getting your horribly overpowered maxes nerfed, ya whiny bastards. I aint in the mood to put up with your BS.

Nerf my shotgun, I will stomp you flat with my rifle.

Nerf my rifle, I will use my knife.

Nerf my knife... well... !#$^ you :p

[Hellsfire123]

The jackhammers a shotgun, short of a tank mounted weapon it should do the most damage, especially at close range.

This is not serious sam, guns do have recoil. If you expect to be able to spray 30 rounds from a chaingun before feeling it kick, you're delusional. However, if you point this gun through a door, and let rip when the door opens, you could easily kill 3-4 people. I know, its happened to me.

Pair two or three CGs together, see if any amount of jackhammers can get close enough to kill you. You shouldnt die till you need to reload.


Alittle off topic, have they removed the lashing from the lasher? I know they removed it from teammates, but i havnt noticed it damaging enemies either, not unless the orb explodes close by anyway.

[Plato]

There are no indications of an impending nerf to the Jackhammer so don't worry.

The TR maxes get hit with the nerf bat today and I just hope they improve the chaingun a bit in relation to it's CoF to even things out in the heavy assault area. Let the Jackhammer remain the king of CQB. Sweepers and Rocklets remain effective against it.

[EnderCN]

If you really like the lasher simply because of how it performs at close range, then you are using it poorly or wasting your time. A sweeper shotgun which is 4 certs cheaper kills faster than the lasher at 20m or shorter and is easier to aim.

You need to use the suppression ability of the lasher or learn how to use it at 20m+ outdoors to really make it worth the points. It needs some help but its not worthless as is, just not up to par with the jackhammer.

[1024]

Originally posted by Jaged
What exactly is wrong with the Jackhammer pwning? NC is the best. We should pwn. :D

Well, you can't argue with that. :rolleyes: :D nice one jag :thumbsup:

[tmartinez72]

Originally posted by Madcat170
yet you have a pic of a vanu with one in your sig?

Heheh. I know. It's sad, but I couldn't find a decent pic of a VS with one of the common pool weapons to work as a sig. :o

[Seer]

I agree that the chaingun could stand some minor improvements, and the jackhammer might need the 'instant agile kill' secondary fire retuned.

[Airlift]

In most cases, the primary fire of the Jack is more dangerous than the secondary because of the difference in cone of fire. When you switch over to secondary, the CoF dobles in size off the bat and gets even bigger when you actually pull the trigger. The result is that secondary mode is for pressing the barrel up to someone's back before firing, or switching to in a hurry to finish off someone you've already wounded badly with the primary fire.

The chain gun is also a very deadly weapon, but more for taking out groups of people on the move than the Jack. It has terrible recoil, but works really well at medium range when using burst fire (Which is gay as hell really, in what movie, game, etc.. have you ever seen a minigun fire in less than a 10 second spray?).

The Lasher I haven't used. It kills me a lot (I currently only wear Agile), and sometimes even when I'm making best use of cover. Still, Idon't like this weapon much, and I laugh uncontrollably whenever someone tries to shoot one at my mosquito. "What are you thinking, guy?"

[Plato]

CoF Originally posted by Airlift
gets even bigger when you actually pull the trigger

Funny that...;)

[SpacemanSpiff]

Originally posted by Led
Fine, fine, yall can go on whining about the effectiveness of a stupid simple shotgun. Of course, this is all in retribution about getting your horribly overpowered maxes nerfed, ya whiny bastards. I aint in the mood to put up with your BS.

Nerf my shotgun, I will stomp you flat with my rifle.

Nerf my rifle, I will use my knife.

Nerf my knife... well... !#$^ you :p

We may take your life, but we, the TR, will never ever take your freedom. :p

[Led]

Wallace never had respawn tubes.

[SpacemanSpiff]

The Scots would have kicked that much more arse if they did.
Of course, that means the English would have respawn tubes as well.
In this case, the Scots would have to zerg the English to get upclose with their Claymore-hammers, because the English would win a long range battle with their longbow-cyclers. But before this the English would charge the Scots with their heavy-Prowler-horsemen. And the Scots would retaliate by sticking the Prowlers with very very large sticks.

[Led]

http://users.ev1.net/~bajah/insanecleric/animatedyaes.gif

[Zarparchior]

:thumbsup:

(in reply to everything)

[Vis Armata]

I just grab Jackhammers when I can; I'm thinking that if the NC get such a good close-in shottie, I might as well show them what it's like to be on the receiving end.

[SpacemanSpiff]

Ditto. http://www.dakotacom.net/~kelly517/smilies/misc/smoke.gif

[Kikinchikin]

only time i can actually get one, is in a big battle, and i can never make it to a locker or equip terminal for shotgun ammo...

[Ducimus]

I've found that the Rocklet rifle makes a very good substitute for a jackhammer. Of course it takes forever to reload but thats beside the point....

[Plato]

Rocklet rifles are deffinately the poor man's Jackhammer. I'm working on getting my Heavy Assault weapon cert to use the 20 JH's I have in my locker. I acquired all 20 just last night from their suicide charges :)

[Airlift]

Nice! I was up to 17 at my highest stock level, but carelessness and bad luck (plus getting pwnt hardcore a couple times) have recently depleted my locker down to 9 remaining.

[Kikinchikin]

i only got 3... :o but i got 8 lancers, if i ever get anti vehicular... :p

[shinken]

Originally posted by Hellsfire123


This is not serious sam, guns do have recoil. If you expect to be able to spray 30 rounds from a chaingun before feeling it kick, you're delusional.



I have 1 word for you, NO
in real life miniguns have almost no kick, the gun is so barrel heavy that it keeps barrel rise down to almost nothing, have you seen the movie, Predatorm (i think thats right) the guy sprays an entire chunk of jungle and absolutly no kick, which is very accurate, the only chain guns in real life with that much kick are aircraft cannons like the GAU-8 avenger cannon on an A-10 but that can rip through a tank w/ a few of it milk bottle sized shells,

[Chryse]

have you seen the movie, Predatorm (i think thats right) the guy sprays an entire chunk of jungle and absolutly no kickAs we all know, the movies are an airtight representation of real life. ;)

Not to get off the point here, but my father was an Air Force flight engineer in Jolly Green Giant air rescue helicopters in Vietnam. One of his duties was to man a window-mounted 7.62mm minigun like the one Jesse Ventura used in Predator. We watched the movie once and, when that scene came up he gave me a look and said, "Bullshit." I asked him why he thought so and he said that the minigun is heavy and bulky and the ammo alone would be a bit too much for even "The Body" to lug through the jungle. He also said the torque generated from the recoil combined with the rotating barrels would be too much for anyone to steady, and that it required a reinforced mount inside the helicopter to even operate with any control.

Jesse Ventura and Arnold Schwarzenegger (in Terminator 2) sure looked cool using miniguns, but the rounds they used were blanks, which do not produce the same level of recoil as live ammo.

[Plato]

If my minigun isn't going to be realistic, I want the TR to have a heavy assault shotgun too. Gimme my Thunderhammer!

[Airlift]

There is no doubt that the real life minigun is not a man-portable weapon that you can tote around and smoke your enemies with. They are always mounted on something. However, what the shit difference does that make? Real life has no bearing on game mechanics.

[Chryse]

However, what the shit difference does that make? Real life has no bearing on game mechanics.True, but my point wasn't to compare the game to real life. I went OT for a sec to correct Shinken and clarify that, just because an ex-wrestler and current governor of Minnesota uses a chaingun like a weed-whacker in a movie, that it really wasn't possible to do. I never tied that into the game itself. :)

[Knuckles]

*Whips the the thread back on track*

I'm dropping my HA cert tonite. The Lasher's just not worth it. I've just read up on the official boards and tests shows that the Lasher, apart from having that ridicolously slow moving orb/projectile, has the least damage per second (DPS) of all HA weapons. It's even inferior to the cycler in that regard... and it costs 4 points more...

My kill rate has gone way down since I switched to the Lasher, so I'm going back to my Sweeper/Lancer combo. But before I do drop that HA cert, I'm going to use up all my stashed Jackhammers. If You are playing on Werner, and are TR or NC - today will be a good day to take cover.

- This disgruntled Vanu's guna go out with a bang!

Oh, and oh yeah - I am going to buy myself both Combat Engineering and Advanced Medic for those 4 points. I had originally planned to make my character as good a grunt as it could possibly be (AV/HA/Reinf/Adv Medic/Combat Engineer = BR 19), but alas. The vanu weaponry just ain't up to par - so I guess I'll mainstream instead, and buy the Magrider (aka lawnmower) and the AMS. Maybe I'll try out the Skyguard instead of The Magrider...

Lets see what happends.

[Plato]

I got my cert in Heavy Assault this morning. I didn't get a chance to break out my 18 Jackhammers tho (only 18 will fit in locker). I was fighting the VS out in the open between a tower and a base.

Unfortunately I got thoroughly owned by Lancers. Having to dodge fire from 3 VS at once with Lancers is damn difficult..

[Kikinchikin]

to emphasize again, the games all about chex and balances. Empires are good in certain areas. vanu have xcellent Anti vehic cuz of lancer, NC have good HA (and TR is nearly as good I have seeen the light i still want a CoF change tho) medium assault is equal basically Vanu tank is far superior and thats about it. Hmmmm who comes out on top there? answer is no one. Select the empire that accentuates what you like to do best.

And About the whole chaingun being used for crowds issue. Well i've discovered what u mean here, although it still needs it CoF changed. Was in a bio lab think it was Hapi. NC were holding out with 10% NTU so we were just gonna keep assaulting till they ran out. Newho i run in the door with my reinforced armor (i finally got it yesterday) and see this dude with a hammer. rip him apart just cuz he was unskilled. Then i open the door only to find 3 NC (1 with a hammer) charging at me. I just let loose and mow all 3 down and am only at half health. Then 2 more come through and one hits me with his rocklet but i kill both of them. then another comes through and im hididng so i pelt him with a thumper this time. Then the max comes through and im at 1/3 health, and i moronically switch to frag thumper instead of using armor bullets for the chaingun... i hurt him but i croak after 7 kills. Chaingun is good in those situations.

[Jarlo]

Yeah I'm dropping my Lasher too for special assault and getting combat engi in one more BR.. It just isn't worth the 4 points right now.

Adv medic, engineer, magrider, special assault

edit: gah I put Lancer instead of Lasher-- fixed now :confused:

[Kikinchikin]

u mean lasher correct? lancer is AV

[Plato]

Lancer is officially AV but it's anti infanty too - takes a massive chunk out of your health in reinforced per shot.

[Madcow]

Yep, I got lanced last night while sniping. 3 shots killed me. Considering I was in reinforced and 2 sniper shots would have taken me out that seems a bit too powerful, especially considering how quickly you can get multiple shots off (in comparison to the bolt driver).

[Onizuka]

I feel the VS weapons some how seem more balanced. I mean, the lancer works well on infantry as well, and the Lasher works very well on MAXs and light vehicles. I dont always find this true with NC or TR weapons.

[Arakiel]

The problem with the jackhammer vs. chaingun argument is that the jackhammer, for the most part, will own the chaingun at medium range. The JH's shotgun spread damage falloff isn't too harsh at medium range, but the CG's CoF makes it minimally effective at the same distance.

It's not as much a problem with the jackhammer (which, I still consider balanced) as a problem with the way the chaingun performs at medium range.

Oh, and the lasher needs to have its projectiles move about twice as fast before it's even worth considering in the same category as the other two HA weapons.