Gameplay: Outfit Specialization Idea

[NewSith]

So right now we expect: air combat, vehicle combat, infantry combat and naval combat in the future. Let's take these four as root specs and add some sub-specs for each.



My idea is to implement skills and (as a final step of the skill) some sort of special uber-ability for root-spec. I didn't come up with many skills (especially infantry), but this will do too. So here's how it goes (based on what we know):

Air Outfit

UBER: Some sort of floating mini-base that moves 5 kmph with airpads on it. Can act as field spawn point and constant outfit spawn point. Destructable only from the inside (like via generator destruction or something). Has a2s guns on board. Costs a huge amount of Resources to create, but provides terrific advantage on the battlefield. Can only be created and controlled by outfit leader. 1 per outfit.
SPECIAL INFATNRY VISUAL: Pilot Helmet.



Air Combat Outfit

1. Decreased timers of fighters and the Liberator.
2. Armor bonus to fighters and the Liberator.
3. UNLOCK: Additional fighter upgrade slot.

Air Transport Outfit

1. Decreased timer of the Galaxy.
2. Increased Galaxy armor.
3. Constant shield recharge.
4. UNLOCK: Airborne spawn.

Vehicle Outfit

UBER: Heavy and clumsy mobile vehicle spawner and siege machine. Can be destroyed from the outside. Costs a medium amount of resources. Has s2a and s2s guns on board. Can only be created and controlled by outfit leader. 1 per outfit.
SPECIAL INFATNRY VISUAL: Cap for TR, Driver Helmet for NC, Facegear for VS.



Ground Assault Oufit

1. Ability to summon MBTs without tech bonus (assuming there is one).
2. Decreased timers of MBTs and the Lightning.
3. Armor bonus to MBTs and the Lightning.
4. UNLOCK: Additional MBT upgrade slot.

Ground Support Oufit

1. Decreased timers of the Sunderer and the ATV.
2. Armor bonus to the Sunderer and the ATV.
3. Max speed increase for the Sunderer and the ATV.
4. UNLOCK: Sunderer Spawn

Naval Outfit

UBER: Giant battleship, capable of being a full-fledged base. Can move. Can act as a constant outfit spawn point. Destructable only from the inside (like via generator destruction or something). Has automated w2s, w2w and w2a guns on board. Costs way much more than the air outfit uber. Initial assault starter. Can only be created and controlled by outfit leader. 1 per outfit. Can be named.
SPECIAL NAVAL VISUAL: Naval hat (????).



Naval Combat Outfit

1. Max speed bonus to water assault vehicles.
2. Decreased timers of all water assault vehicles.
3. Armor bonus to all water assault vehicles.
4. UNLOCK: Additional upgrade slot for water assault vehicles.

Naval Assault Outfit

1. Decreased timers of all water support vehicles.
2. Max speed increase for all water support vehicles.
3. Armor bonus to all water support vehicles.
4. UNLOCK: Amphibious Sunderer.

Infantry Outfit

UBER: Base ownership. Leader can own and upgrade a base. If sandbox is implemented, base building.
SPECIAL INFANTRY VISUAL: Beret.



Attack Outfit

1. Reduced spawn timers.
2. Can spawn on squad leader inside an enemy SOI.
3. Reveal Ability for every outfit member.
4. UNLOCK: Class combat bonus. (e.g. healing grenades for medic)

Defense Outfit

1. Increased deployables amount.
2. Owned base defenses restore faster.
3. Can spawn on any friendly base.
4. UNLOCK: Class support bonus. (e.g. medic placing activated single-use spawnpoints like corpses for stroggs from QW:ET)

[headcrab13]

Originally Posted by NewSith

Some sort of floating mini-base that moves 5 kmph with airpads on it. Can act as field spawn point and constant outfit spawn point. Destructable only from the inside (like via generator destruction or something). Has a2g guns on board. Costs a huge amount of Resources to create, but provides terrific advantage on the battlefield. Can only be created and controlled by outfit leader. 1 per outfit.

THIS! All of your ideas are solid, but this air base really caught my eye. Just imagine an hour-long fight over a tower than you just can't quite take, and your outfit leader calls in a compact floating air base a hundred meters above it. Not only could you spawn from there and drop onto the tower's top level, but it would also be impervious to ground damage until jetpack units could get to the tower roof and fly up to it, or air support arrived.

The battles over these air base generators would be amazing. Not only has your outfit spent significant resources on its creation, and waited for it to fly into position, but it could be the one thing making the difference in the tower fight. The enemies would be swarming your air base and you'd have to swat them down as they attempted to get into the generator room. If your outfit got overwhelmed and the enemy took out the generator, the base's thrusters might fail on one side, sending it careening into a nearby hillside in a fiery explosion.

-HC13

[NewSith]

Sad to see it's not even getting rated...

[NewSith]

/bump with little editing work based on what we know now.

[brickbuster]

I like this. However, I feel that perhaps the naval ships only being destructable from the inside would be a little bit OP (just imagine a big ship surrounded by a bunch of smaller ships and sending shells towards the enemy base while remaining impervious). However, the rest of it I agree with. I hope that the dev's see this thread.

[sagolsun]

Constructive criticism:

1) giant unit-spawning tanks, sort of like the fatboy from SC1.
Bad idea, terrain is uneven. Collision detection would break.

2) battleships
The water is a marginal playzone. Very narrow-purpose. For the most part it would be beyond LOS fire, which is in the long run boring.

3) base ownership
I see no reason why base ownership shouldn't be available to all outfits and then specialized accordingly

4) floating minibase for air spec:
I like this, but you already know that.

What I don't like is the idea that you strictly compartmentalize all of the ideas. You'd want 4 separate distinct powers. I, on the other hand, would like a more organic approach. I think a floating mothership could replace the giant tank, just with tank droppods instead of a hangar bay. It could be configured in any number of ways - as a heavily armored infantry spawnpoint, a long-range missile platform, a close range ground/air support, a docking bay for aircraft, a tank factory or ultimately as a fast anti-mothership destroyer.

The organic nature of outfits being able to define their specializations by picking the right parts for their mothership doesn't remove specialization - mounting particular modules and turrets would require certifications, so it's still there. However it would give some dimensionality and flexibility to your idea.

[berzerkerking]

/bump

[Duskguy]

i would say just give outfit leader the ability to put certs into certain things such as cooldown timers, armor, damage, etc. and the ability to mix and match to some degree would be appreciated, much like your bonuses listed.

i dont know about a super weapon type thing for each specialization or having to lock into a specialization however.

my idea would be that an outfit leader could make quicker cooldowns on suad spawning, aircraft and vehicle spawns.
or aircraft cooldowns, aircraft damage, aircraft armor.
or aircraft cooldown, ground vehicle armor, infantry health bonus.

basicially an outfit would get 3 choices of specializations which the players could then immprove upon.

[berzerkerking]

In stead of the floating base use this.

Originally Posted by Baneblade

Outfit Air Cruisers Redux

This has been in the works in one form or another since 2004, and even now I still believe that Airships are the way to bring outfit bases into the game. They give outfits a centerpiece to either relax in safely from a distance or bring into actual combat. They also give outfits something to invest in to increase their relative power and prestige. And the most critical part, they add a naval combat aspect that will add to and not take from the existing PlanetSide theatres of war.

Air Cruisers would not be BFRs nor GGs, they would have little to no direct interaction with the ground game outside of being a transport and mobile spawn point. Air Cruisers cannot land and they are locked into a fixed altitude (roughly 60% of whatever flight ceiling will be). Their weapons are designed to engage other Air Cruisers with. They have limited built in AA (essentially only gatling guns, no flak). Outfits can only have one Air Cruiser at a time and losing it starts a 7 day timer before a replacement can be purchased. The idea is that these are significant assets to protect. On the other hand, Air Cruisers also constantly consume resources, whether they are being used or not. They are persistant assets and can't all fit in the 'sanc'.

Each Faction would have three base hulls to choose from designed to facilitate that faction's strengths and evidence their weaknesses. Air Cruisers would have several modular subsystems to upgrade to alter the operation or even just enhance the Air Cruiser. The modules include: Engineering Module (Engines and Generator), Defensive Module (Shield Generator and Armor Plating), Offensive Module (Weapon hardpoints), Spawn Module (spawn capacity and utilities such as terminals), Hangar Module (Size and Capacity of Hangar Deck), and Cargo Module (Ability to transport Vehicles Supreme Commander style such as MBTs).

The three hull classifications would be Light Cruiser, Heavy Cruiser, and Battle Cruiser. The Light Cruiser is roughly 100 meters in length, with the Heavy coming in at 160 and the Battle Cruiser rocking 220 meters. The Light Cruiser is allowed ten module upgrade points, the Heavy twenty, and the Battle thirty. Each module requires a certain point cost to be upgraded. Light Cruisers cannot upgrade any module beyond Mark III regardless of available points. Heavy Cruisers cannot upgrade beyond Mark IV leaving Battle Cruisers as the only hull able to upgrade to Mark V.

Air Cruisers will have several vulnerabilities, such as balconeys with access doors, enemy accessible flight deck/hangars, limited maneuverability to avoid heavy ordinance, destructible weapons (Heavy Weapons can be disabled via concentrated fire or internal sabotage), crew compliment requirements to maintain the vessel, and finally NTU fuel. Deprive an Air Cruiser of NTU and it will enter an offline mod, which will make destroying it relatively easy. Shields and Engines are the primary NTU burners, with weapons and spawns taking a smaller constant amount. Normal non combat operations with a Basic Engineering Module would need refueling every eight hours (twenty four with Mark V Engineering). Combat Operations could drop that down to as little as two hours (six with Mark V Engineering). Generators (Power and Shield), Engines, and Spawns can be disabled through damage and/or sabotage.

An unmanned Air Cruiser would be destroyed in short order. Yet a fully crewed AC could shrug off the same attack.

Each Module System comes in Six Levels:

Basic
Mark I
Mark II
Mark III
Mark IV
Mark V

All hulls are equipped with Basic Modules when purchased.

Module Key words:

Standard = 100%
Enhanced = 125%
Advanced = 150%
HAWT     = High Altitude Warrior Transfer

Basic Module Overview: No Upgrade Point

Engineering - One Standard Power Generator, One Standard NTU Storage Tank, One Standard Engine
Defensive   - One Standard Shield Generator (100,000 HP), Standard Armor Plating
Offensive   - One Forward Heavy Weapon Hardpoint, Two Lateral Point Defense Hardpoints
Spawn       - One 60 Second Spawn Tube, One Non MAX Access Equipment Terminal, One HAWT Drop tube
Hangar      - One Small Aircraft Hangar Bay (hangar door not large enough for Liberators or Galaxies)
Cargo       - One Ventral Heavy Lift Platform (One MBT or Two Lightnings per Platform)

Mark I Module OVerview: One Upgrade Point

Engineering - One Enhanced Power Generator, One Large Capacity NTU Storage Tank, One Enhanced Engine
Defensive   - One Enhanced Shield Generator (125,000 HP), Enhanced Armor Plating (increases damage mitigation of hull, adds mass)
Offensive   - Two Forward Heavy Weapon Hardpoints, Four Lateral Point Defense Hardpoints
Spawn       - Two 60 Second Spawn Tubes, Two non MAX Access Equipment Terminals, Two HAWT Drop Tubes
Hangar      - One Large Aircraft Hangar Bay (large enough for one Galaxy)
Cargo       - Two Ventral Heavy Lift Platforms

Mark II Module Overview: Two Upgrade Points

Engineering - One Advanced Power Generator, One Advanced NTU Storage Tank, One Advanced Engine
Defensive   - One Advanced Shield Generator (150,000 HP), Advanced Armor Plating
Offensive   - Two Forward Heavy Weapon Hardpoints, One Aft Heavy Weapon Hardpoint, Four Lateral Point Defense Hardpoints
Spawn       - Three 60 Second Spawn Tubes, Three Non MAX Access Terminals, Three HAWT Drop Tubes
Hangar      - One Large Aircraft Hangar Bay, One Small Aircraft Hangar Bay
Cargo       - Four Ventral Heavy Lift Platforms

Mark III Module Overview: Four Upgrade Points (Max for Light Cruiser)

Engineering - Two Standard Power Generators, Two Standard NTU Storage Tanks, Two Standard Engines
Defensive   - Two Standard Shield Generators (200,000 HP), Advanced Armor Plating, Standard Armor Plating for Weapon Hardpoints
Offensive   - Two Forward Heavy Weapon Hardpoints, Two Aft Heavy Weapon Hardpoints, Four Lateral Point Defense Hardpoints
Spawn       - Three 45 Second Spawn Tubes, Three MAXable Terminals, Three HAWT Tubes
Hangar      - Two Large Aircraft Hangar Bays
Cargo       - Six Ventral Heavy Lift Platforms

Mark IV Module Overview: Eight Upgrade Points (Max for Heavy Cruiser)

Engineering - Two Enhanced Power Generators, Two Enhanceded NTU Storage Tanks, Two Enhanced Engines
Defensive   - Two Enhanced Shield Generators (250,000 HP), Advanced Armor Plating, Enhanced Armor Plating for Hardpoints
Offensive   - Three Forward Heavy Weapon Hardpoints, Two Aft Heavy Weapon Hardpoints, Six Lateral Point Defense Hardpoints
Spawn       - Three 30 Second Spawn Tubes, Three MAXable Terminals w/ 25% discount, Three HAWT Tubes
Hangar      - Small Flight Deck (large enough to comfortably handle three Galaxies; Flight Decks are all through deck designs)
Cargo       - Eight Ventral Heavy Lift Platforms

Mark V Module OVerview: Sixteen Upgrade Points

Engineering - Two Advanced Power Generators, Two Advanced NTU Storage Tanks, Two Advanced Engines
Defensive   - Two Advanced Shield Generators (300,000 HP), Advanced Armor Plating, Advanced Armor Plating for Hardpoints
Offensive   - Three Forward Heavy Weapon Hardpoints, Three Aft Heavy Weapon Hardpoints, Six Lateral Point Defense Hardpoints
Spawn       - Three 15 Second Spawn Tubes, Three MAXable Terminals w/ 50% discount, Three HAWT Tubes
Hangar      - Large Flight Deck (five Galaxies comfortably)
Cargo       - Twelve Ventral Heavy Lift Platforms

As you can see, even with a Battle Cruiser, you can't max out every module, you have to consider a balance or even a specialization for your Air Cruiser, no one setup to rule them all.

Weapons Hardpoints can be turrets or launchers. They are empire specific. TR might have a Kinetic Autocannon or a Rapid Fire Missile Launcher. NC might have a good ole 500mm Cannon or Torpedo Launcher. And those pesky VS might be looking at choosing between a Laser Beam or a Plasma Burst. Point Defense Hardpoints are typically common gatling guns or something more empire specific: TR 1000 rounds per minute chaingun, NC Rotary Flechette Cannon, VS Rapid Fire Railgun.

All Heavy Turrets are locked into a 270 degree horizontal arc with absolutely no verticle arc. Meaning it can't aim up or down, only left and right. Broadsides are possible and even encouraged. Launchers can only fire on something within a 90 degree horizontal arc, can't lock on to a non Air Cruiser. Lateral Point Defense are side oriented ball turrets designed to engage in close air support against attempted boardings and outright hostile air power. These weapons are not air farming as any enemy pilot coming close enough to be fired upon is likely engaging in a hostile maneuver. Laterals have 270 degree arcs both horizontal and vertically.

Air Cruisers have Command Abilities, which range from Shield Boosting to Engine Overload:

Shield Boost: Directly drains NTU resources to replenish an amount of Shield HP
Shield Hardening: For a limited time the Air Cruiser will burn NTU instead of Shield HP when taking damage.
Engine Overload: Provides a massive engine power boost for a short time with a 20% risk of disabling one entirely (if two engines, each gets the 20% roll separately). 100% chance of damaging engines and reducing performance after the Overload is over.
Engine Cruise: Sustained High Output setting for engines to allow fast transit from one point to another. All functions (except Spawning) disabled for duration. Air Cruiser travels roughly 50% faster while engaged. Cruise disabled if Engines are damaged or disabled.

Air Cruisers are not fast. Even with upgraded engines, they are still slow ungainly behemoths. A Light Cruiser with One Standard Engine will top out at about 30 kph. A Battle Cruiser at 20. The Light Cruiser will take almost 60 seconds to go from 0 to 30 kph, the Battle Cruiser 300 seconds to get from 0 to 20 kph. Heavy Cruiser roughly halfway between at 25 kph max and 180 seconds acceleration time. This mean that engine upgrades are meaningful as a Mark V Engineering Module can cut that 300 second burn for a Battle Cruiser down to 100 seconds. The Light Cruiser similarly would drop to 20 seconds. It takes a Light Cruiser roughly 30 seconds to make a 180 degree turn. 180 seconds for the Battle Cruiser. Engine upgrades to improve this, but only 50% as much as they do for thrust thrust. Mark V Engines would have the Light Cruiser making a 180 degree turn in 15 seconds with 90 for the Battle Cruiser.

As with anything, the numbers used are examples, nothing is locked in stone. The Outfit Air Cruiser idea is an old one that has morphed many times over the years. But I believe this formula is going to be the final. It espouses the new values in PS 2, such as versatility and modularity. All while not dominating the ground game in a direct fashion.

I would need to know more about how resourcing might work in PS 2 to really get into cost:benefit.

The absolute rules any Airship in PlanetSide must follow:

1. Can't ruin the ground battle (see BFR).

2. Can't provide a overpowering advantage to the empire it belongs to (outfit oriented).

3. Can't be impervious to non Air Cruiser threats. (sabotage, concentrated fire from combined arms)

I suppose 2 is debatable, but those are my rules since breaking them leads to OPness.

[DarkMesa]

I adore these ideas!

I would not mind any of these concepts at all.