Outfit member Cap

Blitzkri · 2012-04-02, 08:14 PM

Shouldn't there be a cap amount of players allowed in a single outfit?
It would mean to get the most out of what you got, instead of crashing 500 people into 1 thing and ruining a good fight. You can use 300 people to try to crash the same target but be forced to use tactics.

Stardouser · 2012-04-02, 08:20 PM

For that to matter, there would have to be some kind of asset or function that outfit members can all spawn on the same thing. Ie, if there were outfit airships outfit members could spawn from, then yeah, you'd want limits.

But if there are no special spawning abilities given to outfits, I don't see a purpose in a limit.

Tasorin · 2012-04-02, 08:23 PM

I think you are confusing Continent Population Locks with Clan Roster size. I would expect that a Unit/Group will be limited to 10 players grouped together. Then you will get 3 or 4 Units/Groups that will group up to form a Platoon. Gee, a lot like PS1 and most other MMO's.

If a Clan wants to have 500 members under there tag then so be it. I wouldn't want to limit the Clan Roster size. Where you stop the things you are talking about is the same Population Lock mechanics they used in PS1. Where the game mechanics seek to try and keep populations equals out by locking a factions players wanting to enter the Continent when there is an uneven number of players per each faction on the Continent currently.

Now if all the NC on one Continent want to zerg up and roll bases, then tough shit. Use whatever global system is in place and get your faction to Zerg up as well and come push the other factions poop in.

SKYeXile · 2012-04-02, 08:28 PM

then you will just see:

The Enclave
The Envlave Air Squad
The Enclave X
XX The Enclave XX
The Enclave XXth battalion

etc...

kaffis · 2012-04-02, 08:30 PM

I think an outfit cap is likely, simply because there will be outfit benefits that can be purchased -- you know, those things that Higby likes to talk about where the outfit of awesome Reaver dogfighters comes over the horizon and you recognize them and are scared because they've got the Outfit benefits that help trick out their Reavers even more, or whatnot.

If you don't have outfit caps, you could just have one specialized outfit per empire per role, so that players could maximize, rather than duplicate, earning those perks as an outfit.

The alternative to put a leash on such behavior would be to have the amount of (experience, resources, whatever) to earn those benefits scale with outfit size. But that seems potentially exploitable, too.

ThGlump · 2012-04-02, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

then you will just see:

The Enclave
The Envlave Air Squad
The Enclave X
XX The Enclave XX
The Enclave XXth battalion

etc...

You will see it anyway if there will be significant bonuses from outfit certs (if you cant have them all)

Stardouser · 2012-04-02, 08:58 PM

There will be a lot of non -outfit people, there's people on this very forum who say they don't want to join them or have to join them, and there will be some people who form outfits of their own just to get the bonuses without having to be part of an outfit that has an active leader shouting orders at them.

Lonehunter · 2012-04-02, 09:09 PM

Dear god I hope there are no outfit caps, it would ruin PS2 for several multi gaming communities I know of that played PS1 and plan to play PS2. I know of 4-5 different guilds in Swtor that have a 2nd or 3rd alt guild because they have a member cap. They're not alt characters, just a community too big for the game (which should NEVER happen)

Making a cap is not a smart move, I'll even call it dumb

If you're worried about some kind of "Outfit spawning" or outfit base then you simply need to put a cap on THAT number, not your community roster. By forcing large groups to make alternate Outfits you're splitting communities, last time SOE did that a few countries got pissed

Originally Posted by ThGlump

You will see it anyway if there will be significant bonuses from outfit certs (if you cant have them all)

Higby has actually addressed this. He wouldn't go into details, but he acknowledged outfits wanting to make multiple outfits to get different perks, and said they have a plan for that. To me it only seems logical to have different rosters within a single outfit. So one list only gets tank perks and another gets air perks.

Originally Posted by kaffis

If you don't have outfit caps, you could just have one specialized outfit per empire per role, so that players could maximize, rather than duplicate, earning those perks as an outfit.

This is very unlikely. You realize that if everyone is in the same outfit there basically is no outfit system right? Why not just let people pick a perk since that's their only reason for joining? Outfits are about more then perks. If the entire outfit specializations system was scrapped, people should still want to create/join outfits

SKYeXile · 2012-04-02, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by ThGlump

You will see it anyway if there will be significant bonuses from outfit certs (if you cant have them all)

Hence why i listed air squad secondly

but it does depend on on how outfit XP works.

lets hope its only based off your top 20-50 members and not everybody's XP, don't want the zergfits going SERVER FIRST BANNER!!

Or ill have to make a server first movie again of me driving our banner, up their ass.

SkitzoSniper · 2012-04-02, 09:38 PM

An outfit member cap would be absolutely pointless. There is absolutely 0 need for it, nor does it serve a real purpose other then forcing a large outfit to splinter into smaller ones.

Khellendros · 2012-04-02, 09:44 PM

Yes, no outfit caps, please.

NCLynx · 2012-04-02, 09:54 PM

IIRC It's already been said that the different types of sub-divisions will still be able to be done in-outfit. As in you can settup your air squadron AND your tank squadron within your outfit WITH their specific specializations separate.

I haven't read anything about this in awhile though so I could be totally wrong.

EVILPIG · 2012-04-02, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by Blitzkri

Shouldn't there be a cap amount of players allowed in a single outfit?
It would mean to get the most out of what you got, instead of crashing 500 people into 1 thing and ruining a good fight. You can use 300 people to try to crash the same target but be forced to use tactics.

I always love the "ruining" argument. Who is it being ruined for? You? Who are you? I think that if they are "ruining" it for you, they are probably having "fun".

Anyways, I was told by the developers in 2004 that they didn't put in a limit but had not anticipated outfits of our size. We were a pleasant surprise. I actually expected a limit in PS2 because the size of our outfit actually caused an issue with the GUI, but I was surprised to hear that currently, there is no plan to limit outfit size.

The shame of it is that I see so many opponents to large outfits. Sadly, I see a lot of it comes from ignorance to the actual organization that can be accomplished by such massive forces. Overwheming numbers is a historically proven tactic. Superior organization is another. You combine the two and you get something nearly unstoppable.

Arby · 2012-04-02, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

The shame of it is that I see so many opponents to large outfits. Sadly, I see a lot of it comes from ignorance to the actual organization that can be accomplished by such massive forces. Overwheming numbers is a historically proven tactic. Superior organization is another. You combine the two and you get something nearly unstoppable.

I'll be the first to admit (as much as I dont like to) I was once in one of those *zergfits* and I left as soon as I knew better, but there is nothing wrong with outfits that big. In fact i learned how to play Planetside BECAUSE of that first huge team experience. Having a set limit for no legitimate technical reason only hinders the players experience. Outfits like GOTR, AT, Blue Lions, 666th, Dark Skyes in it hayday... These arent detrimental. Alot of people bash them for failure or what have you, but usually that zerg at least accomplishes something with leadership is on. Can all of the smaller outfits say the same thing? Capping a tower and holding it doesnt push the line....

Dart · 2012-04-02, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

Overwheming numbers is a historically proven tactic. Superior organization is another. You combine the two and you get something nearly unstoppable.

Fortunate for the rest of us then, that no Outfit ever managed to combine them! Time will tell if anyone can crack it the second time around...