Gameplay: Light Air Cav Transport

Baron · 2011-07-26, 10:54 PM

While I love the GAL and it's function, I can't help but to dream a little of a small, mid/low altitude, medium speed light transport air vehicle.

In my mind, it would fit nicely into many roles, primary being:
* Transport of small teams

Spec Sheet:
Crew: 1 Pilot, 3/4 Passengers
Speed: Balanced with others (slower than mossie and other "jet" style air cav), primarily flight mode = hovering
Weapons: Door/Gunner controlled something small

Many of us would link this to the Little Bird in the battlefield series, or even the samson in Avatar (for PS version, remove all / most of the guns). This would offer a small team a much lower profile than a Galaxy transport and give them some options to conduct espionage behind enemy lines. Currently this is handled by the mossie since everyone can cert it, you can get anywhere on your own. Given the added depth of PS2, I could see a niche filled by this little guy.

Thoughts?

DviddLeff · 2011-07-27, 03:42 AM

Phantasm fills this role currently, rather than Mossies.

But yeah I love the Phantasm; my outfit is getting back into the game and most nights we only manage a half squad so its perfect for us, allows us to quickly relocate the whole team together.

However, I am unsure whether the fact that it can transport players almost anywhere safely due to the cloak is a good thing; a good air defence should be able to take one out and stop it from completing its mission.

As such I would rather the thing be visible, but give it a couple of 20mm guns on the sides for the passengers to use, or let the passengers sit on the sides like the little bird and shoot out...

Lartnev · 2011-07-28, 05:11 PM

Yep. Galaxy for your hardcore squad level/platoon insertions. "Little bird" for quick relocations. Would make a really nice contrast between the slow awesome power of a Galaxy and a quick, agile, low flying small transport trying to stay under the radar and avoid anti-air defences.

EASyEightyEight · 2011-07-28, 06:58 PM

This would be nice, but I think I'd prefer an actual gunship with room to spare. You know, a pilot, a gunner behind the pilot that mans a forward rotary minigun and rockets, with 2 side gunners, + 2-4 more passengers for transport. Think an actual multi-man reaver, only bigger with more armor.

More in line with the OP's suggestion though, I can see mossy pilots maybe upgrading their birds to have positions for soldiers to hitch onto for covert aerial insertions. Would basically cover the same role with no need to completely model and texture a whole new aircraft.

Manitou · 2011-07-28, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by EASyEightyEight

This would be nice, but I think I'd prefer an actual gunship with room to spare. You know, a pilot, a gunner behind the pilot that mans a forward rotary minigun and rockets, with 2 side gunners, + 2-4 more passengers for transport. Think an actual multi-man reaver, only bigger with more armor.

More in line with the OP's suggestion though, I can see mossy pilots maybe upgrading their birds to have positions for soldiers to hitch onto for covert aerial insertions. Would basically cover the same role with no need to completely model and texture a whole new aircraft.

This could be done through forsaking the transport hard-points and installing guns on the hard-points. Modular capabilities are really something they could use incorporated in the cert tree. Allow specific modular capabilities with deeper cert abilities.

MasterChief096 · 2011-07-28, 09:14 PM

Why do we have to choose between having a gunship and a transport? Why not just have both? Either separate vehicles or the modular idea would work. This is such a massive conflict that we should have vehicles of every sort, for every play style.

EASyEightyEight · 2011-07-28, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by Manitou

This could be done through forsaking the transport hard-points and installing guns on the hard-points. Modular capabilities are really something they could use incorporated in the cert tree. Allow specific modular capabilities with deeper cert abilities.

But it's still a light armored mossy, not a bad-ass heavy gunship going pew pew pew in every direction while guys repel down onto a rooftop

The mossy barely looks like it can install much more weaponry anyway, much like that dinker the OP displayed. I also would think passengers can fire from open cock-pit vehicles this time, as well as be killed in them. Still not the same as gun ports, but that seriously would look a tad ridiculous on a mossy. Now take something like the Clone troop transport and apply that concept to PS2...

Haro · 2011-07-29, 12:00 AM

I've been thinking about this myself, and I think it's a great idea. The phantom came after I left PS, but it seems interesting. I definitely don't like the idea of it being invisible, though. Stealth, maybe not detectable by certain radar systems, but not invisible.

I think a great model for how this could work would be the huey gunship, or the Falcon from Halo Reach. Small and fast, with maybe 3 or 4 passengers and 2 or 3 gunners. I was thinking of basing the model off of the reaver with an open compartment and a few machine gunners. I also think that the 2 seat configuration of the reaver as it seems to be could also stay, with a front chaingun used by that gunner.

I'd make this nearly as fast as a mossie, with a less armor than a reaver. As you said, light, fast, low to the ground. Also, should be fairly easy to produce.

Valdae · 2011-07-29, 02:51 AM

I'm not keen on this idea. I know how frustrating it can be to see everyone jump into mossies, but i believe we should be thinking of a way to encourage more players to use deliverers and sunderers instead.

**Malorn** · 2011-08-02, 12:43 AM

I've always been a fan of a smaller transport. In late PS I played a bit with the Phantasm and I have to say it was a lot of fun, though I think cloaking was probably a bit much. If some of the highly organized outfits like the Enclave had those in early PS we would have seen just how broken it is to stealthfully deploy infantry quickly. But I digress...

I think a medium transport is good. However, I disagree with the Armament. If it had front guns it would just be a ghetto mosquito and not used for its intended purpose. You could put side guns much like blackhawks from the Battlefield games. That could be OK, but again I think it would draw it away from its intended purpose of light fast transport aircraft and people would use it as a gunship instead. Keep it simple, keep it good for its purpose.

I like it to be roughly half the capacity of a gal with roughly 1/4 or 1/3 the survivability. So basically the Galaxy is your guaranteed delivery system for hot zones, while the light air cav is your more rapid deploy to the front lines like the air cav of Vietnam.

If you think BF2142 that's pretty much where I'm headed with this.

Its' good for pacing to have rapid transit from spawn points to the front lines. If they have the support XP worked out well like in PS1 pilots could get rewarded for that.

Lartnev · 2011-08-02, 02:26 PM

Just wondering: Would this light transport be a requirement before unlocking the Galaxy? Or is the Galaxy far too much of a iconic vehicle to be left unavailable from the start?

EASyEightyEight · 2011-08-02, 06:14 PM

I'd say the Galaxy should be available from the start. Outfits will want their gal drops ASAP.

Regarding medium air-transport, I feel it has to have that nose mounted minigun and rocket launcher, but it must be manned by a gunner, not the pilot. The side guns would help it dish out more firepower. The ability to carry extra passengers should be a bonus, but not it's purpose. My suggestion was closer to a heavy Reaver, making the Reaver more akin to a light tank in comparison. The passenger capability was just a cool idea on top of that. It shouldn't move nearly as fast as a reaver or a mossy, as it would be meant to be used as a gunship, not a fighter.

As for small rapid aerial transport, I really can't see why a mossy or a reaver can't opt for rails that infantry can all sit on (like 4 tops for the whole bird) and it can jet them around that way. I mean, people want options right? Doesn't make sense to me for SOE to develop a standalone quickie aerial transport that does just that - moving people - when they have 2 chassis' capable of doing the same thing, only they're armed of course. Or maybe they won't be with passenger rails? Who knows?

**Malorn** · 2011-08-04, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by EASyEightyEight

Regarding medium air-transport, I feel it has to have that nose mounted minigun and rocket launcher, but it must be manned by a gunner, not the pilot. The side guns would help it dish out more firepower. The ability to carry extra passengers should be a bonus, but not it's purpose.

So a medium air-transport's purpose is to "dish out firepower", not carry passengers?

This thread is about something like a Blackhawk, not something like an Apache.

Baron · 2011-08-04, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

This thread is about something like a Blackhawk, not something like an Apache.

Exactly,

It can have guns, but any weapon that's effective must be used by passengers in the vehicle (read: door guns, etc...). The transports in BF2142 are a good example of what's in my head.

Light armor, quick, VTOL, small team delivery type of vehicle.

EASyEightyEight · 2011-08-05, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

So a medium air-transport's purpose is to "dish out firepower", not carry passengers?

This thread is about something like a Blackhawk, not something like an Apache.

It's not a medium transport at that point, but it does carry passengers being that it's large enough. It's basically the medium tank of air craft... with spare passenger slots and low altitude hot dropping functionality.

It's purpose is to provide lasting aerial support as a gunship. If you want a super light transport for 4 people, put rails on a mossy/reaver. There's your huey.

Why have a pure medium air transport for low level aerial insertions when you can have a high flying, heavy armored Galaxy that even allows troops to spawn and hotdrop from within it instead? A simple aerial medium transport would be doomed to the same fate as a deliverer/sunderer if all it did was shuffle people from point A to point B, it just flies now.

Think Halo's Pelican, or the second aircraft the OP linked. Think USCM Marine drop ship from "Aliens," only PS2's equivalent requires a dedicated gunner to work the real firepower of the aircraft. Think of it as the Galaxy Gunship, only compact and a bit more maneuverable, less overall firepower and armor, but has passenger slots.

As for the deliverer and the sunderer, they're going to need some real useful gimmicks to give them purpose beyond moving people from point A to point B, but that's for another thread.