Becoming Disappointed.

MrBloodworth · 2012-06-01, 11:42 AM

I really do not like the Auto repair and auto Re-supply. There are invisible walls over land. People get resources automatically every once in a while, just because ( Everyone is special? ). You can switch seats with a key press, you can enter any vehicle from any angle. You can't kick an empire completely off a continent, they have an impenetrable base. You can bail instantly from anything. One man tanks/gunners other than the lightning. No Enter/exit animations, makes the game feel cheap and disassociated. You can spawn on squad leaders. There is no way to deny opposition any equipment ( you spawn fully equipped ). They have power increases in my Planetside.

This isn't a post that "Battlefield did it" but a post about none of the above fits a WAR game.

I thought this was a War game. War games have elements of logistics/denial in it, required teamwork, and you can loose. Most of the above is great for session based shooters where it does not matter after the timer/tickets expire. Session based shooters are DESIGNED to remove reliance on others, it does not discourage teamwork, but its not required.

I personally do not mind that aspects of PS1 have changed. It always needed things like better net code, and more refined shooting mechanics and such. Also, the engine is stellar so far, and the art wonderful ( The VS max is a bit silly ). The team themselves very open, and very much appreciated for all the work to even bring Planetside into 2012.

I just do not understand the push to remove required teamwork to this degree, or aspects that are found in war games. It seems more and more like its becoming imposable to fail in this game, other than death, for a second. Not for a title that is supposed to be a strategic war game at its core. Not for a game that one of its core rules was no player was better than another because of time played. Not for a game that has such a grip on many people IF it got you. I feel many of those PS moments are being removed. I feel like the baby is being tossed out with the bathwater in many areas.

2c

PS: before it comes up. I like the Battlefield series. They are great games. But they are not war games. They are Battle games. Two different types of Shooters. Just like Quake is an arena shooter. Battlefield is a Battle shooter. Planetside is a War shooter. Different designs, different focuses, different game play.

Stardouser · 2012-06-01, 11:45 AM

Agreed. Autoregeneration of vehicle health is bad, unlimited ammo is bad, and restrictive out of bounds is bad. Not impressed with footholds on every continent, that is one of the few things I'm willing to wait to see in action. One man tanks seems to be a bowing to Battlefield players(not Battlefield copying, but bowing to their players.).

The other things I don't necessarily disagree with though.

Er, you should be able to deny the enemy vehicle and stuff through resource denial, not sure if that's what you were talking about.

But to be perfectly fair, I think we're operating under a certain...safety net, shall we say. This game can't possibly fail to be 10 times better than BF3 even if it doesn't achieve its own optimum design. Let's remember that.

T MAN · 2012-06-01, 11:52 AM

Yup was thinking the same seeing as how all this is coming out now, soon well see in beta and how much there willing to change stuff.

basti · 2012-06-01, 12:01 PM

1. Auto Health Regen: Its a customization. If you have it, you dont have flare or anything that goes into that slot. It has a 15 sec delay in wich you cant take any damage, or it doesnt kick in. The delay, the amount it repairs per sec and even the whole thing itself needs to be tested during beta! There is NO WAY of telling if this even makes it into release!

2. Squad spawning is the exact same mechanic as the old Hart + Drop pod. Its just the same without recalling and waiting for the hart. In fact, the sanc recall hart thing was more powerful, as you could send a entire PLATOON, no, AN ENTIRE CONTINENT WORTH OF PEOPLE bloddy EVERYWHERE. At ANY time, without ANY restrictions. Squad spawning wont allow that.

3. Where the hell did you see auto re supply?

4. Those "out of bounds" areas may go away during beta. Theres no point in having them, and its on my list of things i will stress during beta. And they are not walls!

5. Why should you get ressources not once in a while? Theres nothing wrong with that, the whole empire gets them based on the territory you own. It makes the bond within any given empire stronger. I would rather be upset if people would get them individually

6. True that you can switch with a key press, but wait for beta. Once i broke that whole mechanic and shot a few devs in my Mag doing the AV and AA at the same time, as well as blew a few guys up in a lib controlling everything at the same time, this will likley change. I dont like it, at all, its a stupid idea to begin with and got exploited to hell in every game that had this ability.

7. Those footholds wont stay for long, trust me. Devs just didnt have a chance yet to see what they really do to the territory system. But beta will show.

8. You always could bail instantly from anything in Planetside, so whats the problem?

9. What other one man tanks? I have not seen any, and neighter did you. If you mean those Driver = gunner stuff: We had that in Planetside for ages, the Magrider. And dont tell me the PPA was useless, the thing was quite good if you knew how to use it. Prowler and Vanguard may get the option to have a dedicated driver, and thats much needed anyway, because you cannot drive and gun at the same time effectivly, especially with all that stuff around. Trust me, those "one man tanks" as you call them will be coffins for everyone in them.

10. The lack of enter and exit animations saddens me as well, but who knows what that 5 year plan may contain.

11. Power increasing? Wut? Err, nope? its called Customization, to gain extra power in A, you give away power in B.

**Malorn** · 2012-06-01, 12:04 PM

I dont see it as bad. In PS1, everyone could/did have a glue gun when in vehicles. It was mandatory. If they didnt have autorepair you would effectively be forced into using engineer whenever in vehicles. However i vefy much doubt autorepair will be anything near engineer repair in terms of speed and effectiveness. What it does mean is you dont need a rep gun if you take minor damage. If you are pushing a line youre going to want an engineer. I think this streamlines the game and relieves pressure for every driver to be an engineer. It also stops shenanigans where a mosquito or othef aircraft pelts a tank for tiny damage - in ps1 that would eventually kill a tank. In PS2 it means you need some reasonable minimal dps.

Stardouser · 2012-06-01, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by basti

7. Those footholds wont stay for long, trust me. Devs just didnt have a chance yet to see what they really do to the territory system. But beta will show.

Now that's some optimism I LIKE, but - people claim that with all "hand design" of the continents going on here, won't that be a major change requiring a lot of work and therefore, would require nothing less than a united community rebel yell to get changed?

And what would we replace it with?

proxy · 2012-06-01, 12:05 PM

I don't see unlimited ammo for infantry, are you talking about vehicles?

Rbstr · 2012-06-01, 12:05 PM

I am already disappointed with the closed mindedness of so many who haven't played the game yet.

Stardouser · 2012-06-01, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Rbstr

I am already disappointed with the closed mindedness of so many who haven't played the game.

I have experienced these features in other games. It's not closed mindedness. The only defense is that PS2 has a lot more people per battle and that somehow that makes it OK but I think the opposite of closed mindedness is the idea that we must have this because other games do, or that it must be OK just because the devs think it's what we need, and that's going to prevent people from properly critiquing it during beta.

sylphaen · 2012-06-01, 12:14 PM

The cockpits look so great, I wish the rest could feel as solid.

One side looks serious and awesome (great design, impressive visuals/sounds, cockpits) and then the gameplay makes it feel inconsequential (instant entry/exit, instant seat switching, low TTK, driver/gunner).

At the moment, I feel like heavy ground vehicles don't feel that heavy at all but more like an armor upgrade for troopers. Especially the Mag which made me think about an arcade shooter (wasd+strafing+highspeed+guns). Another thing I do not entirely understand is that while the Sunderer has good speed (great improvement from PS1), all tanks also seem to go faster.

Of course, it's only a first impression and overall, the game looks amazing. I just really liked PS1 ground vehicles gameplay (which involved trooper play rather than "we do everything from inside the vehicle and don't need to get out") while I always found BF2142 vehicle gameplay super boring (so much that I usually tried to avoid having to drive one).

TLDR: I share the OP's overall concerns and hope for the best for ground vehicles gameplay. I specify ground vehicles because AirCav gameplay looks great (not too many news about lock-on missiles). We'll have to see with the actual result of all this during beta.

kasiraghi · 2012-06-01, 12:19 PM

I think he means the closed-mindedness in the sense that you haven't felt how this game acts as a whole yet.

basti is 100% spot on - beta is beta, that's the point, there is no point in worrying about these things until we get our hands on them and test them for ourselves.

If it's a 'true' beta, SOE will either learn lessons from what we do in it, or glory in the fact that they knew what they were doing when they implemented things that may surprise/delight us.

Redshift · 2012-06-01, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

I really do not like the Auto repair and auto Re-supply.

You're losing your flares to take that option, honestly if you every find anyone with it certed you should thank them for being a free bag of exp......

stop complaining about shit you've not tried

Gandhi · 2012-06-01, 12:20 PM

I still have a lot of concerns, but I'm not worried at this point. Overall I think the game looks fantastic, I just hope the team stays committed to the idea of trying different things and taking community input during the beta. If we start pushing up against release and people are still hot swapping between AV and AA turrets in their solo Vanguards, then I'll start to get worried. Unless I'm dazzled by the awesomeness of these changes between now and then, as unlikely as that seems to me right now.

Shlomoshun · 2012-06-01, 12:20 PM

This is a tricky one. I agree with some of the stuff you point out(1 man tanks being a main one, resupply being another if I were playing a support class). But the overall view I'm taking is looking at PS1 and identifying what were the GREAT moments I had in that game, and how will this game create similar really GREAT moments that feel truly epic, and occur more frequently.

I can assure you that in my time in PS1, none of the GREAT moments involved not being able to get into a vehicle easily, switching seats by exiting a vehicle, entry animations, etc... Those are perepheral to the gameplay, and while some of them seem like nice immersion elements, I don't think they will truly make/break the experience as long as it can provide the truly epic things I'm looking for more frequently than the first one did.

basti · 2012-06-01, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Stardouser

Now that's some optimism I LIKE, but - people claim that with all "hand design" of the continents going on here, won't that be a major change requiring a lot of work and therefore, would require nothing less than a united community rebel yell to get changed?

And what would we replace it with?

Ive managed to pull of crazier shit already. Getting a whole community to rebel against something is a piece of cake. Especially if a lot of those people see the issue and know how it could be.
Thats the big benefit of a 2 in any games name: you know how it once was, and how changes affect something.

To go into a bit detail: The devs clearly want to have us fighting over the whole continent. Now, the territory system enforces that, but the footholds completly destoy it. You wont even get near a enemys foothold, because the more territory you take into their direction, the harder it gets for you to keep pushing. As you take more and more of their ground, they have less ground to defend, and the third empire is just going to attack you with everything they got, because your empire has no chance to keep everything secure. All they need to do is open a lot of fronts, hack into a lot of different spots, and then just defend that one you didnt manage to resecure. Bang, free territory. And while your empire is back to square one, trying to keep their land intact, the other empire that you tried to push to their foothold just regains its ground.
In the very end, this will result in a very small area of combat, while the rest of the continent remains silent for ages, with only some combat every few weeks, before everything collapes again.

No footholds + Global lattience and sanctuarys? Well, now every piece of land can really be taken.