Should Heavy Assault Drive?

PhoenixDog · 2012-07-09, 09:43 PM

Did a quick forum search to no avail. I'm sure it's been discussed before though....But should Heavy Assault be able to drive? Much like the Rexo in PS1, they couldn't drive closed-cockpit vehicles. And of course in the stream from Higby we saw him get out of a tank fight and fire the HA Anti-Vehicle weapon at a Magrider.

So anyway...Should driving (passenger/gunner excluded of course) be limited to Infil/LA/Medic/Engie? Or should the HA be able to drive as well?

(Of course, the Flash is excluded from this conversation)

Jeepo · 2012-07-09, 09:49 PM

No I don't think they should. Or if they can they can not bring a full weapon load out so no AT weapons. If they have entry and exit animations then it won't be so bad I guess.

Maticus · 2012-07-09, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by PhoenixDog

Did a quick forum search to no avail. I'm sure it's been discussed before though....But should Heavy Assault be able to drive? Much like the Rexo in PS1, they couldn't drive closed-cockpit vehicles. And of course in the stream from Higby we saw him get out of a tank fight and fire the HA Anti-Vehicle weapon at a Magrider.

So anyway...Should driving (passenger/gunner excluded of course) be limited to Infil/LA/Medic/Engie? Or should the HA be able to drive as well?

(Of course, the Flash is excluded from this conversation)

Perhaps everything besides MBTs and air cav/lib. I don't think HA driving lightnings would be THAT big of an advantage. For the gal/bang bus, the more people able to drive support vehicles the better.

Electrofreak · 2012-07-09, 09:51 PM

I agree they should not be able to drive closed-cockpit vehicles. It's a bit too much to be able to tool around in a Vanguard with AV.

Either that, or dismounting from the driver seat should take several seconds. You shouldn't be able to bail at the last minute and start throwing AV.

Littleman · 2012-07-09, 09:54 PM

In this iteration I think it's fine. They can't heal themselves like they could in PS1, so they already have their limitations. Not sure we can leave a weapon slot empty anyway.

PhoenixDog · 2012-07-09, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by Electrofreak

I agree they should not be able to drive closed-cockpit vehicles. It's a bit too much to be able to tool around in a Vanguard with AV.

Either that, or dismounting from the driver seat should take several seconds. You shouldn't be able to bail at the last minute and start throwing AV.

That's been my problem with the lack of animations associated with the vehicles. the instant in and out allows for players to just shoot a shell, hop out, fire a rocket, hop in, and fire a shell again all while the other tank has maybe managed two shots...You got 3.

Zidane · 2012-07-09, 09:55 PM

Now that they cant heal themselves I think it should be fine.

Ratstomper · 2012-07-09, 09:56 PM

Last I heard all infantry except MAXes could drive vehicles.

Vehicle animations would go a long way to solve some of the class as driver problems. They would pretty much act like a delay so people can't just bail and start shooting (plus they look cool).

Envenom · 2012-07-09, 09:56 PM

I can see that class being very boring and average if you take away such a huge facet of the game such as vehicles.

I disagree and think you're all over reacting.

Originally Posted by Ratstomper

Vehicle animations would go a long way to solve some of the class as driver problems. They would pretty much act like a delay so people can't just bail and start shooting (plus they look cool).

^ touche

Electrofreak · 2012-07-09, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by PhoenixDog

That's been my problem with the lack of animations associated with the vehicles. the instant in and out allows for players to just shoot a shell, hop out, fire a rocket, hop in, and fire a shell again all while the other tank has maybe managed two shots...You got 3.

Yep, that's exactly my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Zidane

Now that they cant heal themselves I think it should be fine.

They may not be able to heal themselves, but they have something better; they can bail in a fraction of a second and pop a shield which will allow them to survive a tank round. Combine this with the ability to fire AV and they just have too much of an advantage.

QuantumMechanic · 2012-07-09, 10:02 PM

I'm kind of surprised there's no dedicated Pilot/Wheelman class. I mean, when you are in a vehicle - your intent is to.... use the vehicle right?

Being able to hop out and rambo somebody down with your heavy weapon strikes me as overkill.

Edit: yes you could hop out and rambo somebody down with your HA weapon in PS1, but you could only do that in light armor while sacrificing most of your inventory space.

mintyc · 2012-07-09, 10:04 PM

Galaxy, Sunderer and Flash + any future buggis and deliverer types = yes

all other aircraft and tanks = no

Xyntech · 2012-07-09, 10:05 PM

Yes, HA should be able to drive and fly every vehicle.

MAXes are specifically balanced around being unwieldy, but HA is balanced more normally like every other class. HA will be balanced so that it has many pluses and minuses compared to LA, Engis, etc, rendering them all roughly equal. This won't be a clear upgrade from PJ's to agile to rexo like in the first game.

So long as HA's AV guns aren't able to be used as "I win" buttons against enemy vehicles after bailing (they currently can't) and as long as every other class has a reasonable chance of killing HA in a plenty of 1 on 1 situations, there is no reason not to allow HA to drive/fly.

This is PS1 bias that people are carrying over to PS2. If there does prove to be some serious balance problems in PS2, we'll have to address this issue again, but for now there is no good reason to think that PS2 will suffer any of the problems that PS1 would have suffered if Rexo could drive every vehicle.

PhoenixDog · 2012-07-09, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by Envenom

I can see that class being very boring and average if you take away such a huge facet of the game such as vehicles.

I disagree and think you're all over reacting.

I'M NOT OVER REACTING TO ANYTHING! YOU'RE OVER REACTING TO NOT ENOUGH!!!

Originally Posted by Electrofreak

They may not be able to heal themselves, but they have something better; they can bail in a fraction of a second and pop a shield which will allow them to survive a tank round. Combine this with the ability to fire AV and they just have too much of an advantage.

Forgot about the shield thing. In essence too, say another HA has almost killed your tank. While it's on fire and he's reloading the rocket to finish you, in a fraction you can hop out and kill him without him even realizing you got out of the tank...

Originally Posted by Xyntech

This is PS1 bias that people are carrying over to PS2. If there does prove to be some serious balance problems in PS2, we'll have to address this issue again, but for now there is no good reason to think that PS2 will suffer any of the problems that PS1 would have suffered if Rexo could drive every vehicle.

I'm normally on the side of "wait until beta" too...But one thing that doesn't carry over from PS1 to PS2 is TTK. An extra rocket fired from the driver could potentially make a huge difference in a tank fight.

Reefpirate · 2012-07-09, 10:12 PM

I literally JUST finished typing this up in the other thread, so I'm gonna paste it here as well seeing as this is the more appropriate place for it:

If you put delays on entry and exit of vehicles (as I'm sure they will), then I don't care if HA's can pilot or not. Your enemies can do it too, but also you're trading something off to be HA-in-tank so it can be balanced... ie. you could be engi-in-tank or LA-in-tank which would have their own advantages.

Also, there's a risk-reward for how long you try to stay in the tank (this will be even moreso with entry/exit delays). Do you stay a bit longer and use the more powerful tank gun one more time but risk being totally blown up, or do you decide to bail out early and trade one final large tank blast for maybe one or two AV rockets?

Time is a resource and so is opportunity, so it's not simply 'lol I get extra AV firepower if I go HA-in-tank'.