Knife = One hit kill?

therandomone · 2012-06-12, 07:04 AM

I posted this in the quick knife discussion because a few people mentioned that a knife shouldnt be a 1-hit kill, but I feel it deserves its on thread:

Personally, I'm against the rifle bash because I love the feeling of successfully bringing a knife to a gun fight. Sure it is slightly animalistic, but I feel like a goddamn champ when I can pull it off. Also, I think it'd be incredibly stupid to have it not 1-hit kill your opponent because why the hell would you use a knife to begin with then? I seem to be one against the world with having it be a 1-hit kill but again logistically it is easily feasible to kill someone with one hit from a knife and anyone who says otherwise clearly has little to no experience with knives (except for maybe cutting their food). I'll give three simple scenarios to explain why:

Scenario 1: If I'm behind you with a knife.
In this scenario I would knife upwards around the neck towards the skull, in doing so I sever the brain stem. By severing the brain stem you cut off motor function and basic functions like breathing. Outcome: You die.

Scenario 2: If I'm in front of you with a knife.
In this scenario I would thrust my knife through the spaces in your rib cage stabbing the heart (for added fun I give it a little twist and turn). Statistics say IF you receive immediate care (say, from a hospital) you have about a 33% chance of survival,we're on a battlefield and something tells me there are no hospital facilities on Auraxis that you can be carted of to. Outcome: You die.

Universal scenario: I'm in front or behind you with a knife.
There is also a stab that can work from either direction. Simply take the knife and thrust it downward into the soft part of the flesh in between the collar bone on the left side in close proximity of the neck toward the heart (once again, for added fun I can give it a little twist and turn). Once again, it ends up with a knife in your heart. Of course if you wanted to be tricky you could do it from the right side and angle it (though that of course takes a slightly longer blade). Outcome: You die. (Fun fact: this was a favorite of the Romans for execution because when done right you're dead before you hit the ground).

Needless to say, to not have people who are supposed to be soldiers unable to kill someone with a knife in 1 hit is absolutely preposterous. I will say I do support you having to switch to your knife though. If they unfortunately decided to keep the "quick knife", I still suggest they keep the 1-hit kill because it is easily possible and like I explained most plausible to kill someone that way.

Given all that my question becomes why shouldnt a knife be a 1-hit kill? Or if you think it should as well, why?

Sledgecrushr · 2012-06-12, 07:08 AM

Unless its a sneaky back stab I dont really see using a knife as a one shot kill. Now if your knife happens to be three feet long then I would say yes getting hit by that thing would certainly ruin your day.

captainkapautz · 2012-06-12, 07:08 AM

No 1-hit kill quickknife, because balance.

Equipable knife that 1-hit kills when you sneak up behind someone and perform a killanimation ala BF3 would be pretty nice, though.

Traenor · 2012-06-12, 07:10 AM

I think that if you sneak up behind people it should be a one-hit kill, but frontal knifing shouldnt be as effective. If it is frontal, you can see it coming and therefore wont be able to make a lethal stab. Many people are against this because of they think it is CoD and BF influence, and while i agree, i dont think it is bad.

Anywho, knifing will be pretty bad for non-infil classes in PS2 because there will be too many people watching each others backs. Infils might make it work with their cloaking however.

Knifing is an okay addition, but not that relevant for most classes. It should however be one-hit if you can sneak up behind an enemy.

Gogita · 2012-06-12, 07:12 AM

The main reason I do not want to have one-hit knife kills is because you will have many occasions where people purposely run into their opponents to knife them, because shooting takes longer to kill.

The knife should never be favorable over a gun in a normal fight. Knifes should imo only be used when:
-Out of ammo
-Stealthy kill
-You happen to be close to an enemy by chance

XLynxX · 2012-06-12, 07:16 AM

I think many people understand the logistics as to why one hit kill knife works in real life, but the developers have to balance realistic gameplay and game balance. Technically, if we are going solely realistic bullets should be near 1 shot kill aswell.

I'm personally not completely against 1 hit knife kills, but it needs to be like a BF3 version where you have to stand right next to someone and it isn't instant like COD; where you can knife from a metre away and within a split second you have your gun ready again.

therandomone · 2012-06-12, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr

Unless its a sneaky back stab I dont really see using a knife as a one shot kill. Now if your knife happens to be three feet long then I would say yes getting hit by that thing would certainly ruin your day.

You're telling me a simple 8in bowie knife (which is exactly the one I personally have) wouldn't rain on your parade? I'm going to take a stab in the dark (couldnt resist) and say youre wrong.

Originally Posted by Traenor

I think that if you sneak up behind people it should be a one-hit kill, but frontal knifing shouldnt be as effective. If it is frontal, you can see it coming and therefore wont be able to make a lethal stab. Many people are against this because of they think it is CoD and BF influence, and while i agree, i dont think it is bad.

Anywho, knifing will be pretty bad for non-infil classes in PS2 because there will be too many people watching each others backs. Infils might make it work with their cloaking however.

Knifing is an okay addition, but not that relevant for most classes. It should however be one-hit if you can sneak up behind an enemy.

I agree it is mostly relevant only to infils. Though if I can get into melee distance (of course that would be fairly close range) why wouldnt it be lethal? If I get that close to you that just means you get to watch me plunge a knife into your heart.

On a side note: I completely agree with the fact there SHOULD NOT be quick knifing. You should have to equip it.

Originally Posted by XLynxX

I think many people understand the logistics as to why one hit kill knife works in real life, but the developers have to balance realistic gameplay and game balance. Technically, if we are going solely realistic bullets should be near 1 shot kill aswell.

I'm personally not completely against 1 hit knife kills, but it needs to be like a BF3 version where you have to stand right next to someone and it isn't instant like COD; where you can knife from a metre away and within a split second you have your gun ready again.

I agree with the game balance which is why I think it should generally favor the guy with a gun, though again, if you're close enough ( and I mean real people close, not COD "close") it should favor the knife.

Dart · 2012-06-12, 07:19 AM

Sorry but this is a ridiculous idea. You never played the original PS and it shows.... You talk about 'feeling like a champ' but you're advocating one of the least skilful moves in modern gaming. The fact that it takes several hits to kill with the knife is where the achievement lies! The knife is the ultimate weapon when you really want to own someone. If you made it 1 hit kill cloakers would be the most over powered class in PS2 and we might as well rename the game to KnifingSide!

Traenor · 2012-06-12, 07:23 AM

If you get close to me with a knife and i am seeing it, i will brace myself. I wont stand still and wait for the knife to plunge into me. Therefore i can dodge/block, and wont be instakilled. Ofcourse, you cant make this into a knifefighting game, so i just feels that frontal knifing only should deal medium damage, therandomone.

Ductape · 2012-06-12, 07:25 AM

Im not a huge fan of knives in shooters in general, I personally prefer a rifle butt to the face with a strong "crunch" sound. I like one hit melee kills from behind with a narrow hit zone though, anywhere else i think that it should be 2-3 hits. I see melee as a finisher, something for when you run out of ammo in the clip, or are close enough to get in the last 33-50% health without wasting more bullets so that you can continue to rush forward.

therandomone · 2012-06-12, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by Dart

Sorry but this is a ridiculous idea. You never played the original PS and it shows.... You talk about 'feeling like a champ' but you're advocating one of the least skilful moves in modern gaming. The fact that it takes several hits to kill with the knife is where the achievement lies! The knife is the ultimate weapon when you really want to own someone. If you made it 1 hit kill cloakers would be the most over powered class in PS2 and we might as well rename the game to KnifingSide!

So...solely because it wasnt in the first one it shouldnt be in the second? By that logic we shouldnt have anything new. The Vanu max should be the only thing with a jet pack and we should just get rid of the light assault jet packs.
And least skillful? So getting a knife kill when people have an easy opportunity to shoot you means its not skillful? Furthermore taking multiple hits with the knife to kill someone with it is like making someone your vice president, they both become useless.

See how none of that makes any sense?

Originally Posted by Traenor

If you get close to me with a knife and i am seeing it, i will brace myself. I wont stand still and wait for the knife to plunge into me. Therefore i can dodge/block, and wont be instakilled. Ofcourse, you cant make this into a knifefighting game, so i just feels that frontal knifing only should deal medium damage, therandomone.

Much to my dismay, you bring up a completely legitimate point ( though nobody likes being proven wrong). Logically speaking you are right, and for that I must stand corrected on the legitimacy on the frontal knife attack. You have won that one my friend.

Gandhi · 2012-06-12, 07:35 AM

No instant kill with knives. I don't care about what's realistic, sneaking up on someone in a hectic 1000+ man battle is not a big accomplishment, the element of surprise you win from it should be "reward" enough.

Dart · 2012-06-12, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by therandomone

So...solely because it wasnt in the first one it shouldnt be in the second? By that logic we shouldnt have anything new. The Vanu max should be the only thing with a jet pack and we should just get rid of the light assault jet packs.
And least skillful? So getting a knife kill when people have an easy opportunity to shoot you means its not skillful? Furthermore taking multiple hits with the knife to kill someone with it is like making someone your vice president, they both become useless.

See how none of that makes any sense?

See this is the kind of post you come up with when you only read the first line of a post. Since you apparently missed it the first time ONE HIT KNIFE KILLS WOULD BE HORRIBLY OVERPOWERED AND BREAK THE INFILTRATOR CLASS! Don't believe me? You should, I've got more experience of this than you. I remember when you could surge while placing boomers and how that unbalanced cloakers (and how everyone exploited it).

I'm looking forward to all the new blood this game will attract but tbh you sound like the typical COD type 'gamer' that we were all concerned about. There is a BIG difference between difficult and useless and difficult, in the modern FPS climate is no bad thing. Sadly guys like you just don't want to try.

XLynxX · 2012-06-12, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by therandomone

So...solely because it wasnt in the first one it shouldnt be in the second? By that logic we shouldnt have anything new. The Vanu max should be the only thing with a jet pack and we should just get rid of the light assault jet packs.
And least skillful? So getting a knife kill when people have an easy opportunity to shoot you means its not skillful? Furthermore taking multiple hits with the knife to kill someone with it is like making someone your vice president, they both become useless.

See how none of that makes any sense?

Unfortunately, you either didn't read or misunderstood his first post. "It wasn't in PS1" isn't the reason he doesn't want it in PS2, it is because in PS1 a quick knife would have made cloakers overpowered and the same could easily happen in PS2.

Sledgecrushr · 2012-06-12, 07:40 AM

Modern shooters suck for realism. They play out like everyone is running around without bodyarmor on. Its like you guys want a sci fi game where everyone is still armored like it was ww2. I can already see from todays military that armor is beating bullets. The Taliban has a terrible time managing any kills of our brave soldiers in the field because there bullets bounce off of our guys(barring a lucky shot in an unarmored area). This is the perception of war from fighting third world militias for the last ten years and its just not correct. I want more melee options.