"The Vanu are techno-religious nut jobs."

[Coreldan]

Originally Posted by Xyntech

My only problem is how that's the way the VS are described in a more general way. To me, that should just be how the other two empires see the VS, not how the VS portray themselves or how they necessarily really are.

Call the NC terrorists, not freedom fighters, if that's how it's going to be.

I believe some media outlet did generally mark NC as terrorists. Given, it wasn't an official statement or anything, but I really feel your pain on this one.

I got really pissed off at being marked as a terrorist on a website like that. I don't mind if some TR or VS scumbag thinks I'm a terrorist, but when someone is sorta previewing a game and in general says that my faction is full of terrorists, thats wrong!

[Captain1nsaneo]

You guys do have a pension for blowing yourselves up though...
Right after you bail from an aircraft.

[Coreldan]

Originally Posted by Captain1nsaneo

You guys do have a pension for blowing yourselves up though...
Right after you bail from an aircraft.

Luckily I never fly myself

Well, occasionally Gal and Liberator.

[Canaris]

Originally Posted by Coreldan

I believe some media outlet did generally mark NC as terrorists. Given, it wasn't an official statement or anything, but I really feel your pain on this one.

I got really pissed off at being marked as a terrorist on a website like that. I don't mind if some TR or VS scumbag thinks I'm a terrorist, but when someone is sorta previewing a game and in general says that my faction is full of terrorists, thats wrong!

You are a bunch of filthy terrorists!

[Erendil]

Originally Posted by Saerain

Sorry for the slight necro, but this has been bothering me. I just can't get a handle on what they mean by religious, here.

To me, religion necessarily rests on faith, and faith is belief without evidence. What's lacking evidence here? That the Vanu existed? No, they're standing on mountains of evidence. That technological progress is good? Please.

If there's some kind of religion in the Vanu Sovereignty about how some guy back on Earth prophesied that this would happen, or that this apparently dead race will some day come back to uplift them, then whoop-de-do, but how that makes the Sovereignty itself religious, from what we know about it, is beyond me. That's about as acrobatic as saying vegetarians are religious because of what the Jains believe.

Let's just say that if we dug up Elohim spacecraft, ray guns, and data logs, it would be pretty odd for our currently perfectly rational disregard of Raëlism to continue.

It's certainly possible that SOE has revamped the VS in a way that is religious, I'm just saying that from what we do already know, it seems like a bizarre description.

I think a big reason this came about is many VS detractors heard that a few VS were hearing the voice of Vanu "in their head," and given how the vast majority of 20th century media has portrayed such experiences it's no surprise that they latched onto the idea that the VS must think they are talking to God and so they must be crazy.

They seem to have concluded that it must be a religious experience whilst discounting the very real possibility that it was instead technologically-based telepathic communication.

[Canaris]

Originally Posted by Erendil

I think a big reason this came about is many VS detractors heard that a few VS were hearing the voice of Vanu "in their head," and given how the vast majority of 20th century media has portrayed such experiences it's no surprise that they latched onto the idea that the VS must think they are talking to God and so they must be crazy.

They seem to have concluded that it must be a religious experience whilst discounting the very real possibility that it was instead technologically-based telepathic communication.

That's wrong too, none of the TR believed you were talking to "God", we knew you were talking to a long dead Alien that demanded all sorts of zealotry and preaching and self mutilation, it says so in your manifesto pamphlets you handed out. It ain't religion you got it was brain washing pure and simple. You are doing the bidding of some crazed echo, that should have stayed buried.

[Captain1nsaneo]

Originally Posted by Canaris

That's wrong too, none of the TR believed you were talking to "God", we knew you were talking to a long dead Alien that demanded all sorts of zealotry and preaching and self mutilation, it says so in your manifesto pamphlets you handed out. It ain't religion you got it was brain washing pure and simple. You are doing the bidding of some crazed echo, that should have stayed buried.

You're just jealous that you don't have a dead elder god giving you orders. You just have normal people! We've got fishmen!

[Xyntech]

Originally Posted by Canaris

You are doing the bidding of some crazed echo, that should have stayed buried.

Y'all can just give us back our Vanu rebirthing technology if that's how you feel about it

[Revanant]

Here's how I see the current conflict, as informed by the backstories that we've seen for PS2. As always, here's a wall of text :

The TR were an answer to humanity when they were on a path to self-annihilation. There had been a nuclear holocaust, and the world was driving itself into the grave. The world had lost more than half of its total population long before the TR came into existence, and it still couldn't help but keep war alive.

The TR step in during the worst moment in Earth's history, and rescue it. The TR government is a compromise that eliminates nationalism and places everyone under a single law--bolstered by a dedication to transparancy and accountability. It is a consensus government for the entire world, it allows for many civil liberties, and it works. Earth recovers from its devastation, and creates a peaceful society far more prosperous than any society that existed before the cataclysm.

The TR is founded on the notion that nobody is above the law, and that unity is absolutely necessary. They believe these things because they see them as safeguards--without unity and order, there is nothing to stop the world into devolving into another cataclysmic war. Factionalism is the enemy, and it is more dangerous than the ultimate doomsday device. Whatever the TR do, nothing could be as bad as the specter of war they are keeping us safe from.

The NC know their history. They appreciate how important the TR was when the world was tearing itself apart. But absolute power corrupts, and while the TR was once an open government that respected freedom, the current government doesn't have the same priorities. The NC see the the regulations and restrictions that are being implemented daily in the name of unity and security, and they are skeptical. They see what happens to those who voice disagreement, and they are horrified by the draconian crackdowns on "dissent." They see the TR, and they see a wolf in sheep's clothing. The NC know that humanity didn't always live under one government, and while it's true that ultimately the world devolved into an apocalypse, it lasted pretty well for thousands of years despite nations and factionalism.

To the NC, the TR is so repressive that ANYTHING would be better. They are willing to tear the system down, to "burn it all and start anew," because even in the worst case, the instability that would result isn't as bad as the totalitarian domination being pushed by the TR. No matter what comes next, the TR is too rotten to remain in place.

The VS aren't political, at least not in the classic sense. They see the danger of the TR's totalitarianism, but they aren't radical freedom fighters. The VS are smart--they see the NC and are appalled by the short-sightedness of the NC's aims. The VS know that every action has a consequence, and some consequences are unforseen. Revolutions are radical, and once they are set in motion, it's impossible to know how they'll end up. The Russian revolution led to eighty years of totalitarian communism. The French revolution led to a reign of terror and an imperial dictatorship. The NC, for all their idealistic drivel, are revolutionary radicals too short-cited to realize they are playing with fire.

The VS see things long-term. They look at human history, and they see an endless cycle of self-destruction. Humanity can't survive if it can't find a way to break the pattern. The VS know that there are other perspectives out there--perspectives with much wisdom and knowledge to share. The VS know that humanity is behind the eight-ball--other societies exist, and if the Vanu are any indication, they may have technology that humanity can't contend with. If man is to survive, he must find a way to even the technological playing field. He also has to stop fighting himself. These are the two tenets that the VS hold dear. While they don't want a revolution--they will go to war to save us from ourselves.


Why do the VS and NC fight?

When the TR look at the VS, they see factionalism. When the NC look at the VS, they see a militarized group that have pursued advanced technology and are attempting to exert political and physical control of Auraxis. The VS are conquering settements and bases, churning out weapons, and fielding troops. They aren't democratic, and they seem motivated by an apocalyptic notion that humanity is caught in a ruinous, self-destructive cycle that has to be broken. The VS have gone to war on a vision--a prophecy of sorts--and the things they are doing to "evolve" humanity... The VS are putting lives on the line to shape the future of humanity in accordance with their views.

It's not a vision that the NC share.

[Graywolves]

Well....when you jump on the faith that someone is hearing voices from Vanu...yes...

When you hold faith that the path of dedicating everything to uncovering and using an ancient civilization's technology and forcing everyone else to comply with your views and that this is the ultimate correct path for humanity.....yes...


Everyone has faith everyday. You may not know it but you require faith that this reality is real, that what you percieve is correct and that what others communicate they percieve (who may not exist at all) is also correct.

That many things, even without a control or a real scientific experiment....are in fact science. That with no control and no true observation, that it is all correct.

Then you get in to the quantum world where things actually behave differently just because you're observing them....





And back on track.....

Faith that your ideal is better than the ideal of unity and total individual freedoms.

[sylphaen]

Nice post Revanant.

To add to the discussion, in PS1, the VS were religious already. Maybe the technology part stuck better because all our tools were based on that technology.

But yeah... Our command structure has religious aspects.

[Canaris]

Originally Posted by Xyntech

Y'all can just give us back our Vanu rebirthing technology if that's how you feel about it

You don't give back presents, that's poor etiquette

[Graywolves]

Originally Posted by Canaris

You don't give back presents, that's poor etiquette

We're not indian givers!