Outfit vs Outfit - Page 3

asdar · 2012-05-30, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by Rumblepit

dont think a 1 man outift would be allowed to que, if this was the case there mite be issues. features like this only reward the players with rep and rank, and some money if its picked up by els and you get sponsors.

I didn't really mean 1 man outfit. I just used singular as an example of getting online and instead of working and looking for a fight, which if you've played you know what I mean, you would gather whatever number of your outfit was online and fight outfit vs outfit. It would be fun, like CoD and BF3 are fun, for a while then you get bored.

The problem is that you can't coordinate the times you want a larger population in game as opposed to in the tourney area so when you go back to fighting other outfits are still fighting vs. The enemy of PS2 is low population. (and total domination)

A reward system would be even worse to me. A sure way to tick of every normal to casual and split the population.

I don't see any way that this would improve the overall game. If I want tournament style I'll go play BF3.

Hmr85 · 2012-05-30, 05:46 PM

I was never really a fan of the outfit wars. I don't hate it, I just never cared for it. Anything that draws outfits away from the game imo is a big no. If you want instanced/arena fights there are other games out there like LoL or WoW for that. If you want massive war with thousands of players there is PS2.

With that said, I am not entirely against it. I realize other players want this. But if it is incorporated I am of the opinion that it should be every few months or longer not a every day or ever other week type of thing.

Kurtz · 2012-05-30, 05:56 PM

/who Check if a player is online or team sizes

In the early days of PS1 many outfits would have pretty intense rivalries. The way we could tell if we had ousted an outfit once and for all from an attack was to do a /who command. We would see player names on a different continent we knew we had repelled the invasion.

I agree with Malorn, forcing competition is a cheap tactic for dwindling populations.

Hmr85 · 2012-05-30, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

I dont' see outfit wars being particularly useful in Planetside 2. It's a bogus sham to provide interest in a dying game.

On one hand you can have an outfit that really just does tanks - and they're very good at tank battles and coordination and contribute greatly to their empire in providing that armor support. You can have another that's all about air assault infantry that specializes in taking bases. And you can have smaller outfits that are specialized in defending outposts or attempting to resecure facilities. You can't really compare those outfits or put them in direct competition with each other. They all do different things and serve different purposes. They also have vastly different sizes and different specialties. You can't have a fair comparison between these outfits without narrowing the scope of the outfits to specific tasks, for which certain outfits will be more suited than others which isn't a fair competition.

And then there's other aspects like the competition itself being a staged mock battle and not a true unpredictable conflict with ever-shifting circumstances. That fundamentally changes the situation. You can have players and outfits that thrive in such circumstances but since they don't occur naturally in PlanetSide the competition isn't reflective of the effectiveness of the outfit.

Competitions between outfits will always favor certain outfits that do particular things well and are of a particular size. I don't think game developers should be promoting one style of outfit over another by having such competitions.

The best competition is normal and natural PlanetSide. You don't need staged competitions to have outfits go at each other. It'll happen normally in PlanetSide. Staged competitions are more of something to keep people interested when the game is dying and there isn't much else going on. When PlanetSide was thriving and healthy such things weren't needed - you got your rivalries and your competitions indirectly through daily conflict.

QFT

and I agree with you 100%. Very well said.

SuperMorto · 2012-05-30, 06:11 PM

This was tested on a multi stream a few weeks back and we will be doing it again this weekend.

This is the NC Blue Lions against the VS AzureTwilight.

We are actively promoting the outfits and battles between them. This is 3 platoons VS 3 Platoons. We will carry this into Planetside 2 as well.

Its called the Auraxian Cup, it was just a testing night to see if it could be done. About 100 people turned up to watch and take part. And this was in a 9 year old game.

The outfits to me are what makes this game what it is. As I see Planetside as a game that should be played in a group. and the outfits are who really changes the meta game. they are the ones who come up with the ideas and have the ability to see them through.

Synapse · 2012-05-30, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Gogita

Higby mentioned before that there was going to be a focus on outfit specialization and recognition. They want to have in such a way so that if for example a tank-outfit arrives, other people will know that it is the notorious outfit "x".

I can imagine that outfits of different empires will notice as well. Just imagine 2 outfit specialized tank columns of different empires running into each other and both of them recognize each other.
I think after the game has existed for a while, some outfits will stand out and will automatically get into fights with other outfits in the battle.

This is exactly what I'm talking about in the OP. For those of you who say it happens automatically, it happens BETTER if you support it.

I definintely want there to be legendary outfits with legendary tactics, and others who seek them out to challenge them. A pair of tank specialist commanders seeking each other out is a great example of that!

SKYeXile · 2012-05-30, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

I dont' see outfit wars being particularly useful in Planetside 2. It's a bogus sham to provide interest in a dying game.

On one hand you can have an outfit that really just does tanks - and they're very good at tank battles and coordination and contribute greatly to their empire in providing that armor support. You can have another that's all about air assault infantry that specializes in taking bases. And you can have smaller outfits that are specialized in defending outposts or attempting to resecure facilities. You can't really compare those outfits or put them in direct competition with each other. They all do different things and serve different purposes. They also have vastly different sizes and different specialties. You can't have a fair comparison between these outfits without narrowing the scope of the outfits to specific tasks, for which certain outfits will be more suited than others which isn't a fair competition.

And then there's other aspects like the competition itself being a staged mock battle and not a true unpredictable conflict with ever-shifting circumstances. That fundamentally changes the situation. You can have players and outfits that thrive in such circumstances but since they don't occur naturally in PlanetSide the competition isn't reflective of the effectiveness of the outfit.

Competitions between outfits will always favor certain outfits that do particular things well and are of a particular size. I don't think game developers should be promoting one style of outfit over another by having such competitions.

The best competition is normal and natural PlanetSide. You don't need staged competitions to have outfits go at each other. It'll happen normally in PlanetSide. Staged competitions are more of something to keep people interested when the game is dying and there isn't much else going on. When PlanetSide was thriving and healthy such things weren't needed - you got your rivalries and your competitions indirectly through daily conflict.

Outfit wars combined all that, you needed air teams you needed defense and you needed assault with ground and air combined, you also needed a great deal of support players. If outfits dont want to adept to the situation thrown at them, then they're gonna loose and they're really not that good then are they? and probably shouldn't have entered a competitive tournament to begin with.

I agree thats its a little staged and not really in the essence of planetside, but outfit wars was not some Tower vs AMS 5v5 assault/defend, it was 30v30 against 2 tech plants, what you know from playing regular planetside still applies except your not fighting organised random's, your fighting an enemy thats coordinated and prepared for you.

In the original outfits were unprepared and played like they would normally, i imagine if they were held regularly there would be all sorts of different plays and strats made out and the whole thing would be come rather meaningless in the context of how things play out in the open world, but it would be interesting to see how it develops.

Synapse · 2012-05-30, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

I dont' see outfit wars being particularly useful in Planetside 2. It's a bogus sham to provide interest in a dying game.

On one hand you can have an outfit that really just does tanks - and they're very good at tank battles and coordination and contribute greatly to their empire in providing that armor support. You can have another that's all about air assault infantry that specializes in taking bases. And you can have smaller outfits that are specialized in defending outposts or attempting to resecure facilities. You can't really compare those outfits or put them in direct competition with each other. They all do different things and serve different purposes. They also have vastly different sizes and different specialties. You can't have a fair comparison between these outfits without narrowing the scope of the outfits to specific tasks, for which certain outfits will be more suited than others which isn't a fair competition.

And then there's other aspects like the competition itself being a staged mock battle and not a true unpredictable conflict with ever-shifting circumstances. That fundamentally changes the situation. You can have players and outfits that thrive in such circumstances but since they don't occur naturally in PlanetSide the competition isn't reflective of the effectiveness of the outfit.

Competitions between outfits will always favor certain outfits that do particular things well and are of a particular size. I don't think game developers should be promoting one style of outfit over another by having such competitions.

The best competition is normal and natural PlanetSide. You don't need staged competitions to have outfits go at each other. It'll happen normally in PlanetSide. Staged competitions are more of something to keep people interested when the game is dying and there isn't much else going on. When PlanetSide was thriving and healthy such things weren't needed - you got your rivalries and your competitions indirectly through daily conflict.

Since I'm DA OP I'm going to declare the privilege of double posting.

I definitely am not asking for instanced outfit wars or any kind of fair or balanced e-sports things.

I agree with nearly everyone else in the thread, that's a bad fit for this game.

What I do want to see is just a way to know which outfits are in the battle you're in, and if they're kicking ass like capping points or spawn tubes etc.

As people say there is a natural tendency for outfits to have a reputation, why not put that on steroids by annoucing the feats of an outfit on the battlefield, or at least which players are part of it.

After all, I think all of us think it would be pretty cool to be part of the "Feared and Respected Outfit X" whom everyone knows because they seem to roll with super air support(tank support, cloakers, MAXs, etc) every time.

A little bit of information shared with people in the opposing team would go a long way to supporting and building those reputations that make the game so much more interesting for all of us.

**Malorn** · 2012-05-30, 06:38 PM

Sky I get that you're going to defend the outfit wars given that your group won a few of them and I don't mean to diminish that great accomplishment. I know your guys worked hard and earned what they won, as did all those who participated.

But they still promote a certain style of play or generalist outfits instead of promoting outfits that are specialists. From what Higby and crew have discussed, they want to give outfits the freedom to go their own way. I don't think that having staged matches or competitions encourages that. Instead it encourages outfits who thrive in just the competitive situation that is staged. That's not to say the players don't have skill but it doesn't do well to say what outfit is "better" than other outfit.

To provide an example, in PS1 my outfit Liberty went up against the Enclave quite a lot. We were completely different outfits with different objectives. We still went at each other but it was each on our own terms playing for our own ideas of success. To the Enclave, locking down the only tech plant on the continent and causing a bunch of troops to relocate to the backfield allowed other Terran troops to advance with a tech advantage agaist the now tech-deprived NC while they held down a fortified position. That was success, and the longer they held it the more success it was. In our case, uprooting them was success, even though it was really a pyrrhic victory, as uprooting them usually meant we lost a base somewhere else while we were dealing with them. But each walked away believing we had "won" the day.

From a player perspective different players enjoy and are good at different things. I don't think the game should favor one over the other by having competitions. I really don't believe PlanetSide is an e-sport type game. It's a perpetual persistent war where each outfit has their own style and niche and plays the game according to their own measure of success. By promoting certain measures of success they inadvertently advertise that certain outfits are the "correct" way to play and others aren't.

Comparing our two outfits would be like comparing apples to oranges. We did different things. We had different impact to our empires.

However I also understand that in the twilight years of Planetside the game was dull and boring and not a lot was going on. I can see in that environment that outfit wars can offer something new and exciting.

My context is the days when such things were not necessary because you had all sorts of specialist outfits playing with and against each other every day. You didn't have to have competitions because you had them daily in wild, chaotic, uncontrolled environments. Every day was a great battle and a great story. I'm sure you remember those days too. I honestly hope PLanetSide 2 never gets to the point where we need outfit competitions to keep things interesting.

Graywolves · 2012-05-30, 06:43 PM

If a competitive scene did come in it might be possible to have specialization brackets. Armor wars, Infantry, Combined-Arms.

I think there's an entire spectrum of possibilities that we haven't scratched the surface of but I understand many players' sentiments that it would take away from the main gameplay.

Skepsiis · 2012-05-30, 06:54 PM

Yes outfit pride and loyalty were a big part of the game when i was playing.

The good thing with outfit wars is that it removed any interference and random events and made it a pure and fair competition between evenly equiped outfits. This way if you were beaten then it was clearly by being outplayed by the other team. A lot of top outfits would like a chance to prove this, and different match rules could be played to favour particular gameplay (like lots of aircraft or whatever).

However i do agree that it shouldnt be a regular thing, it would detract too much from the main game. About twice a year imo, maybe just once. You would want this to be a special event that you could maybe allow people to spectate and gets done and dusted quite quickly.

Competition should definately be encouraged between outfits in game though because intense rivalries and boasting rites and fun for the people involved and it strengthens the team spirit of the game.

A tank specalist outfit could be awarded a medal or honorary title for having the most tank based xp like kills and repairs. This gives them someway to prove they are the top dogs when it comes to tank warfare and other outfits could strive to take that away from them by performing better.

You could have an outfit stats page that shows your top enemy outfits based on kills, and another to show how many oufits have you in their top 3 'killed by you' stat.

This can all be expanded in the future to include things like outfit alliances and politics... And this could set the stage as a good foundation to introduce sandbox game mechanics for outfitswhich i think is on the cards post release. So you can target specfic territory held by your enemies or defend you allies outfit base when it comes under attack.

But yeah, bottom line is that i think outfit competition should be encouraged and supported but in such a way that it doesnt detract from the overall mmofps. First person shooters are usually very competitive and i think most of the playerbase will welcome features that allow them to show off their teams expertise. Keep rewards that effect gameplay out of it and then the players who dont give a shit can carry on as if it wasnt there.

Rumblepit · 2012-05-30, 07:23 PM

well this mite not be the game for those that dont want this,its been said time and time again,this will be a sandbox game, outfits at some point will be able to build their own bases, they will have to defend those bases from other outfits. outfit wars will be in ps2 for sure, how they implement it?we will have to wait and see.

**Malorn** · 2012-05-30, 08:13 PM

Coping with unexpected events and random battlefield chaos is an important part of what makes a great outfit. Those things happen all the time in PlanetSide. Removing them from a competition is removing a vital part of what makes a great PlanetSide outfit - adaptation, resilience, and the ability to improvise. Good outfits and leaders can anticipate these things and manipulate them to their own benefit. They are a tool and an important part of warfare. Its very rare to have an even match, and that's something every outfit has to learn how to deal with and anticipate.

Skepsiis · 2012-05-30, 11:56 PM

You can clearly demonstrate an ability to adapt and show strong leadership in a tournament style setting. The difference being that it actually is a fair fight because you have equal resources. Winning a tournament isnt about being just a great outfit, its about being the best outfit.

The Kush · 2012-05-31, 04:36 AM

Outfit wars

Those were some good times in PS1

Anyone here from the LOL NC on Markov?