Why not have Heavy as an option for every class? - Page 2

Erendil · 2012-03-14, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by Skitrel

Doesn't change the fact that increasing a medic's health just increases the likelihood it'll be unbalanced if people start using medic swarms. A hundred medics with high health all able to heal AND res each other? No thanks.

I assume by "health" you actually mean their armours' shield strength, since AFAIK everyone has the same health value.

That said, Giving Medics Rexo-equivalent shield strength wouldn't be unbalanced because even with what PS2 calls "Rexo armour" the Medic would only be able to carry one rifle-sized weapon, whereas - as the below screenshot illustrates - straight up Heavy Assault can carry two:

You'll notice the above NC HA has a Phoenix in his "Tool" slot. That's where the Medic's med app goes, so it appears that Medics in effect give up the extra rifle-sized slot in exchange for healing ability. As of yet I know of no good reason why they should have to give up a bit of shield strength as well.

AFAIC Light Assault, Engie, Medic, and HA should all be able to use the same shield strength.

NCLynx · 2012-03-14, 07:36 PM

I could understand allowing a medic or an engineer to upgrade to a heavy armor class, but from what I took away from the first post it sounded as if there's argument over letting all classes use heavy weapons as well.

A medic in heavy armor, still limited to his medical applicator and NOT heavy weapon sounds like an ok thing to ask for.

A medic with med app + heavy assault armor and weapon is venturing far into the one man army aspect again though and they'll never do that.

Rumblepit · 2012-03-14, 07:46 PM

heavy assault is a class...not a armor type. not anymore..

Erendil · 2012-03-14, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by NCLynx

I could understand allowing a medic or an engineer to upgrade to a heavy armor class, but from what I took away from the first post it sounded as if there's argument over letting all classes use heavy weapons as well.

A medic in heavy armor, still limited to his medical applicator and NOT heavy weapon sounds like an ok thing to ask for.

A medic with med app + heavy assault armor and weapon is venturing far into the one man army aspect again though and they'll never do that.

~~No, he's only talking about the Heavy Assault class, not the weapon. Whenever he mentions HA he brings up armour value, footspeed, etc.~~

EDIT: You know, at first I thought he was talking about just the armour type, but after your comments I re-read his post and now I'm not so sure....

This is why I really wish they'd rename the classes Heavy Infantry and Light Infantry instead. Not only is it more conventional nomenclature used by modern Armed Forces that woudl be familiar to those of us with military backgrounds, but it alleviates the confusion us PS1 vets may have since we tend to equate the term "HA" with the PS1 weapon type.

That said, I agree, Medics, Engies, and Light Infantry

should all get the same shield strength as Heavy Infantry, but the HA weapons (LMGs and the MCG/Lasher/JH) should remain available solely to the Heavy Infantry Class.

Rumblepit · 2012-03-14, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by Erendil

~~No, he's only talking about the Heavy Assault class, not the weapon. Whenever he mentions HA he brings up armour value, footspeed, etc.~~

EDIT: You know, at first I thought he was talking about just the armour type, but after your comments I re-read his post and now I'm not so sure....

This is why I really wish they'd rename the classes Heavy Infantry and Light Infantry instead. Not only is it more conventional nomenclature used by modern Armed Forces that woudl be familiar to those of us with military backgrounds, but it alleviates the confusion us PS1 vets may have since we tend to equate the term "HA" with the PS1 weapon type.

That said, I agree, Medics, Engies, and Light Infantry

should all get the same shield strength as Heavy Infantry, but the HA weapons (LMGs and the MCG/Lasher/JH) should remain available solely to the Heavy Infantry Class.

so run faster then a heavy, and have the same health and shield , but no heavy weapons? so take almost everything away from heavy assault class thats makes them a heavy assault class and give it to everyone.

NCLynx · 2012-03-14, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by Rumblepit

so run faster then a heavy, and have the same health and shield , but no heavy weapons? so take almost everything away from heavy assault class thats makes them a heavy assault class and give it to everyone.

Run faster? No. Heavy armor, they'd run slower.

StumpyTheOzzie · 2012-03-14, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by StumpyTheOzzie

That's kind of the Brink system.

Light classes could only hold small weapons - smgs and pistols, but they could run fast, vault over obstacles, run up walls (kinda) and be super mobile.

Mediums could vault and run kinda fast, and they could carry rifles or smaller.

Heavies could slowly climb over small obstacles but not very well. They could carry the rocket launchers and MCGs etc

I think lights had -30% health and heavies had +30% health as well but I can't remember.

I'll just quote myself there.
How about it? Medics with heavy weapons is fine. They even get more health but they move so slowly that any 43 year old with no twitch skills can sneak up on them.

Medics, engies, infantry can all be skinny, normal or fat. They just can't physically lift the heavy weapons unless you have the muscle mass behind you.

Engies lose a weapon slot to engy kit, Medics the same but riflemen get 2 weapons.

Heavy infantry get 2 heavy weapons - auto grenade launcher and minigun, Light infantry get dual wielding SMGs or pistols, medium infantry can have 2 medium weapons. light grenade launcher and M16.

The tradeoff is a serious speed disadvantage. lights run at 200% speed, heavies run at 50% speed.

Rumblepit · 2012-03-14, 10:35 PM

I want wings........

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/fl...uest-ii/725656

Brusi · 2012-03-14, 10:37 PM

If the TTK is so much lower than the original PS, would it really be worth choosing a class that gives up useful shit like Eng, Medic skills for heavy assault weaponry if it doesn't also give you the additional perks of more armour?

I think it might cause balancing issues.

Unforgiven · 2012-03-14, 11:12 PM

i like the idea, but i think the devs are steering away from that, their main thing with PS1 was the fact that you have absolutely no idea what anyone in your sights can do to you, with the system they are implementing, now you know what to expect as soon as you see another player, with the light/heavy choice i think a bit of confusion would arise and end up killing off what the devs are shooting for

DaddyTickles · 2012-03-14, 11:35 PM

Hmmm... Perhaps this will be an option with one of the new implants? Sort of a +50% shield/Damage modifier?

Seems the easiest way to do it all.

Bags · 2012-03-15, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

i like the idea, but i think the devs are steering away from that, their main thing with PS1 was the fact that you have absolutely no idea what anyone in your sights can do to you, with the system they are implementing, now you know what to expect as soon as you see another player, with the light/heavy choice i think a bit of confusion would arise and end up killing off what the devs are shooting for

Actually, now that guns are not displayed it's harder to know what you're be fighting.

when I come across an HA will he have AV or strong AI? etc.Before you could see a sniper rifle on their back, a deci, a HA... etc.

Coreldan · 2012-03-15, 02:17 AM

Just to clarify, I did indeed just mean the armor, not the weaponry. While Im not sure if even weapons would be a problem is balanced, but was just mainly referring to the armor.

I sorta started thinking about this from the cosmetic viewpoint and how to make the cool heavy armor type available to more than one class, naturally though unless it comes with a change of playstyle, it wont really fit in.

CrystalViolet · 2012-03-15, 02:39 AM

Short answer: it completely changes the balancing dynamics for each class and adds a counter intuitive variable that exponentially compounds the difficulty of achieving balance. I guess what it boils down to is that elegant simplicity tends to work better in situations like this.

besides, since there will be no 3rd person view for infantry in PS2, it's not like you'll be able to admire how cool your armor looks while you're resing people.

Trolltaxi · 2012-03-15, 04:04 AM

Just remember towerwhores. What did they do all day? 3rd person corner camping with HA (thanks god at least no 3rd person anymore), some of them in rexo, and if they were hit they take out their BANK and medic applicator and healed/repaired themselves. They were completly self-sufficent, and you could do that for 2+4+3+3 cert points, that means BR6...

If you let HA (either armour or the weapon) users to heal themselves you will have those whores back, not even mentioning full squads of HA able to heal themselves or each other.