Planetside 2 Needs Prone

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Phellix

This. I can't believe Stew is still going on with the same exact rants telling everyone they don't have proof and they're wrong and he's right.
Majority doesn't want it. And most people who have said yes admit they haven't played PS1, What does that say? I mean really. Let it go.

ans those guys are saying with the same exact rants telling everyones that having prone will encourage camping will break the pace or the flow of the game but they still like you said never but real arguments just opinions no exemple no video nothing but countless post about the same subject Prone = camping or prone = slow pace wich is wrong and ive been arguing on thats with many people and iam not the only ones who think like thats so ...

saying thats majority dosent want it is irrevelant the pool count as nothing to me could be biase or exploits with multiple accont etc...

its kinda stange to see the NO spamming as long as we cant see who votes for whats its irrevelant to me and also

saying people dont want it base on a small amount of people like this is also irrevelant

the thing thats must be discuss isnt the result of a secret pool thats can be easily tricked

its the arguments debatable and the game concepts etc..

most Bf players wich will be a HUGE part of the population in planetside 2 have voted yess for prone and was mostly harrasing dice to have no put prone into bfbc ! so yeah millions people will play ps2 not 100

[Khrusky]

Originally Posted by Retaliation

There's also no proof that prone won't encourage sitzkrieg. The rub is that since prevailing opinion is that prone will harm the game, it's up to the proneponents (I'm sorry don't shoot me) to provide evidence that it will benefit the game.

Proponents.

Give us a logical reason why prone is more likely to produce this gameplay than cover. I haven't seen a convincing argument yet about why a player who wouldn't hide behind cover where it's safe by crouching, would suddenly start diving into cover all over the place because now they have prone.

As he said, if we can't compare PlanetSide even to BF3 (which they've explicitly stated in the past is the basis for their overall game combat model) then no proof for either side can be provided. Beta testing would be the only way to know.

[Vanu Techpriest]

I generally dislike prone in my FPS games. It is more realistic but it also promotes camping and can make combat more difficult for casual players.

It can also lead to "dolphin diving" like in Call of Duty/Battlefield 3 which looks really wonky and hurts the immersion imo.

[Phellix]

Originally Posted by Stew

ans those guys are saying with the same exact rants telling everyones that having prone will encourage camping will break the pace or the flow of the game but they still like you said never but real arguments just opinions no exemple no video nothing but countless post about the same subject Prone = camping or prone = slow pace wich is wrong and ive been arguing on thats with many people and iam not the only ones who think like thats so ...

saying thats majority dosent want it is irrevelant the pool count as nothing to me could be biase or exploits with multiple accont etc...

its kinda stange to see the NO spamming as long as we cant see who votes for whats its irrevelant to me and also

saying people dont want it base on a small amount of people like this is also irrevelant

the thing thats must be discuss isnt the result of a secret pool thats can be easily tricked

its the arguments debatable and the game concepts etc..

most Bf players wich will be a HUGE part of the population in planetside 2 have voted yess for prone and was mostly harrasing dice to have no put prone into bfbc ! so yeah millions people will play ps2 not 100

Oh look, the same thing i've read multiple times.
You're still comparing PS2 to other games and you can't. You obviously didn't play PS1 for long. You've made multiple posts on these forums arguing changes, linking videos, preaching "you're wrong no proof". STOP POSTING, YOU ARE NOT CONSTRUCTIVE. IT'S YOUR WAY OR THE HIGHWAY.

"ans those guys are saying with the same exact rants telling everyones that having prone will encourage camping will break the pace or the flow of the game but they still like you said never but real arguments just opinions no exemple no video nothing but countless post about the same subject Prone = camping or prone = slow pace wich is wrong and ive been arguing on thats with many people and iam not the only ones who think like thats so ... "

You're being a hypocrite by saying they're only opinions when you're stating your own are right and theirs are wrong.

[Noivad]

I voted yes - Prone ok. Only tried BF3 beta it sucked enough said. Playing Planetside1 since start of 2004. Have no problem with prone or snipers, perfer Light - heavy assult. Prone snipers die just as easy as kneeling ones or standing ones. You just got to learn how to deal with them and kill them.

If it makes the players stop being senceless rushers, without using cover I'm all for it. OCOKA for realism. The game would be more emersive with prone play.

Always wished PS1 had prone too. But then my outfit plays military style not zerg style, so I can see the zerg players having a problem with prone. Kind of like the same type of people who had problems with BFRs.

Learn to overcome, adapt, improvise and do what it takes to kill what ever needs killing. Planetside is not a solo kiddie game - It a team oriented adult game.

[GuyFawkes]

surely prone will be a magmower or reavers wet dream

[Zehtuka]

This would be one of those things to try out in the beta, even if prone uses some placeholder animations it would be useful to find out how much it impacts gameplay.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by Zehtuka

This would be one of those things to try out in the beta, even if prone uses some placeholder animations it would be useful to find out how much it impacts gameplay.

Exactly, why not simply try it out and make a fact-based assessment afterwards.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Phellix

Oh look, the same thing i've read multiple times.
You're still comparing PS2 to other games and you can't. You obviously didn't play PS1 for long. You've made multiple posts on these forums arguing changes, linking videos, preaching "you're wrong no proof". STOP POSTING, YOU ARE NOT CONSTRUCTIVE. IT'S YOUR WAY OR THE HIGHWAY.

"ans those guys are saying with the same exact rants telling everyones that having prone will encourage camping will break the pace or the flow of the game but they still like you said never but real arguments just opinions no exemple no video nothing but countless post about the same subject Prone = camping or prone = slow pace wich is wrong and ive been arguing on thats with many people and iam not the only ones who think like thats so ... "

You're being a hypocrite by saying they're only opinions when you're stating your own are right and theirs are wrong.

Higby , John Smedley CEO of sony ( huge Battlefield fans ) , tramel isaac , and many more SOE dev as state themself thats planetside 2 gameplay guneplay caracter moovement etc.. have been inspire by all the last modernshooter and mainly battlefield as been the primary inspiration

thats have been states by the dev team themself

I still think they are wrong and i say why this is the goal of a dicussion and a debate to find a way of understanding i simply cant agree with them because i cant find any arguments to validate in whats they said but also in my deep experience in online shooters anything thats can make me think thats prone will lead the game where they said i mena by thats the whole (( prone = camping , prone = gameplay pace flow reduce ))

But i can say one thing thats can affect the pace and the flow for real having uneficient medic !

But prone ? the questions is there

How prone could lead to a camping and lead to reduce the pace or flow of the games

which past games have been like this

because u cant make statement whiout having specific reference

i do not see yet anything thats proove prone could be anywhere near a problem in planetside 2 and yes planetside 2 could be compare to MAG or BF3 in many ways even if planetside will be greater and have unprecedent scales

[vasito]

lol you all sound like COD kiddies. Prone =/= camping. Prone =/= dolphin diving.
Maybe you know prone from cod only. ahah. You are really close minded.

In real war the way you defend areas is by having a DEFENSIBLE POSITION, which is what you all call "camping." Prone is a major part of that. It is how war works. You need to man up and stop whining.

[ThermalReaper]

Originally Posted by TheInferno

Also, we know you've pointed out a game where prone works multiple times. We've even said we've seen it. However, does something working in one game make it necessary in another game?

This is exactly right. Stew, read this please.

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by Retaliation

There's also no proof that prone won't encourage sitzkrieg. The rub is that since prevailing opinion is that prone will harm the game, it's up to the proneponents (I'm sorry don't shoot me) to provide evidence that it will benefit the game.

That can't be done without testing it, as I mentioned, both sides are physically prevented from citing the appropriate evidence due to no game with prone being a proper MMOFPS and no proper MMOFPS having prone*. Therefore, the challenge is now on SOE: Beta test it, and let's settle this. Beyond that, we're basically chanting Duck Season - Rabbit Season here.

*WW2OL had prone but had a realism focus. A game need not be realism focused to have prone.

[Vanu Techpriest]

Originally Posted by vasito

lol you all sound like COD kiddies. Prone =/= camping. Prone =/= dolphin diving.
Maybe you know prone from cod only. ahah. You are really close minded.

In real war the way you defend areas is by having a DEFENSIBLE POSITION, which is what you all call "camping." Prone is a major part of that. It is how war works. You need to man up and stop whining.

It's a good thing this is a video game played for fun and not a real war then.

Prone causes camping because generally you move much slower in prone. When people go prone they probably don't plan to be moving a lot. Prone also makes attacking a base much more difficult because the size of the enemy target just shrunk by 75%. A couple guys laying prone in a chokepoint with powerful weapons can take out many many attackers.

This game isn't designed to be some military sim. It's a massive scale arcade style action game and I'm glad there will be no prone.

[Retaliation]

Originally Posted by Khrusky

Proponents.

Give us a logical reason why prone is more likely to produce this gameplay than cover. I haven't seen a convincing argument yet about why a player who wouldn't hide behind cover where it's safe by crouching, would suddenly start diving into cover all over the place because now they have prone.

As he said, if we can't compare PlanetSide even to BF3 (which they've explicitly stated in the past is the basis for their overall game combat model) then no proof for either side can be provided. Beta testing would be the only way to know.

Proneponents was a self indulgent pun.


First of all prone is a defensive posture by nature. To attack you have to advance. To advance you have to be able to move at a decent pace. Often crouch is at a borderline useful speed for crouching, so to keep crouch useful prone has to offer benefits other than moving. Harder to hit and better accuracy are no brainer bonuses. Planetside is also a game of maneuver however, so it has to be able to compete with moving targets (staying still becomes a death sentence).
This is probably why people don't want prone. Since movement is your best defence and TTK is hopefully going to be high enough to react to sudden threats, the target will likely just exploit the prone guy's immobility and kill him.
So for prone to be useful it has to have a reason to be used. Maybe where there's no cover, but engineers have deployable cover. Corner ambushing could be a good one, but there's really no difference between standing there as the whole point is to kill the guy before he can kill you. You would have to make prone players significantly harder to dislodge to make up for the inability to move.

Secondly there's a bit of gaming psychology here. Decent players who camp aren't really an issue. They're camping for a sound strategic reason, but in my experience in RTS, FPS, TPS when you don't know what to do there are two strong impulses. Bumrushing is one, standing still is the other. Since Bumrushing inevitably leads to death, if they don't learn how to attack they'll just sit. Even when no one is attacking. Even when there's an enemy push on the other side of the map. Prone then becomes an obvious choice. If you're not going to move why stand? They're getting an advantage without even putting any thought in it. This is a case of keeping something out of the hands of good players to prevent a stale metagame. It's the same reason why expanding is rewarded so hard in RTS, a fact that I doubt resident starcraft fanatic Matt Higby let slip by.

[Pella]

Originally Posted by Mastachief

Yay for another feature that isn't need

/sarcasm

Prone never works proper in any game, and tends to lead to similar frustrations as bunnyhopping does.

This from page 2. That is all.