Trial by your peers?

SKYeXile · 2011-12-25, 10:24 PM

So its obvious sony is hard at working designing their game to be as hacker and asshat free as possible how do you do you do it? I'v been looking into LoL(Leage of ledgends) system of trail by your peers, they call it the tribunal. you can read more about it here: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/legal/tribunal

Its goal is to obviously lessen the load on the GM's, so things like a good player been reported as a hacker never make it to the GM's and they can bother with dealing with the proper hackers and griefers.

in A F2P MMO asshaats are inevitable, Higby has talked about this briefly:

as usual the sky isn't falling... empires will have access to different camo patterns which will uniquely incorporate shades of their faction colors, we have spotting systems to enhance that, friendlies will always be on your minimap and have an overhead name / icon by default (dependent on distance) so you always know which guys not to shoot, and grief is being reevaluated and redesigned to fit with the gameplay that a F2P shooter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYeXile
So what you're saying is if i pay i get less grief?

No way, just talking about ways to make grief relevant deterrent when someone can easily and freely create new accounts to do stuff like TK everyone defending a base to make it easier for their real team to capture, etc. more punishing for younger characters, forgiveness when actively killing enemies, opt-in for the attacked player to actually assign grief, grief reports in sprees cause faster repercussions, that sort of thing.

Yeah, some form of hardware fingerprinting is something we've been discussing. There are always ways to reassign your MAC address, change that ID file we put on your PC, etc... someone would spend 10 minutes making a little visual basic app that let you switch between "installs" if we put something like that in. It's sadly all about finding the way that makes it as much of a waste of time for the hacker to get around and therefore not worth doing. We have a lot of plans to thwart this sort of stuff, but I'm not going to discuss them for obvious reasons.

(this was all posted in this thread: http://www.planetside-universe.com/f...ighlight=grief

but griefing people isn't just about shooting them, its more than that, its limiting their ability to play the game, while its hard for players to police and judge this in a open world MMO like planetside without proper tools to view the offenders it could be done and misuse of the tools and report system would have to be judged very harshly.

Some forms of this would be standing in front of somebodys shots deliberately to give them greif, driving into somebody to give them grief…planting motion sensors in a spawn tube so people cant get out….

Id like to avoid talking about hacking prevention, its obvious SOE are going to do be doing all they can to combat that. What im asking is would you like to system of players been judged by their peers and people that need to be punished be assigned to to a GM for the final verdict.

Remember, this system while the players can pardon a player, they cant punish them only a GM can do that.

I think it’s a decent system, it would mean GM's don’t have to filter though BS appeals and focus on the ones we see fit for moderation and punishment.

this thread was inspired by:http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/12...nned/#comments it shows you some stats on LOLs tribunal.

Crator · 2011-12-25, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

this thread was inspired by:http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/12...nned/#comments it shows you some stats on LOLs tribunal.

Interesting system they got there... Would be nice for PS2...

SKYeXile · 2011-12-25, 11:19 PM

*facepalms* why do I even bother.

Traak · 2011-12-25, 11:21 PM

My name is Traak, I don't cheat, and therefore, I approve this message.

SKYeXile · 2011-12-25, 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by Traak

My name is Traak, I don't cheat, and therefore, I approve this message.

This system while it does moderate cheaters and hackers, its more built to moderate asshats, retards, exploiters, griefers who insist on making others players gameplay less enjoyable. no 3rd party program can detect if the person is a jerk, they can design the game so that its harder to be a jerk, but there is always going to be jerks, especially with friendly fire.

SKYeXile · 2011-12-25, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

Friendly fire, compaints, grief system. These three things stop jerks.

*double facepalm*

yes...but they still goto a GM to be moderated and they would be getting spammed with BS complaints that need no moderating at all, probably from some bad or butt hurt player. The system is designed so the players judge them first and hopefully only the ones that warrant action on their account goto GM's.

Accuser · 2011-12-25, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

Friendly fire, compaints, grief system. These three things stop jerks.

You didn't read one damn part of the first post, did you?
And while I've got your attention, what would stop someone from using a hack that imitates one of your "200 certified programs"?

SKYeXile · 2011-12-26, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

MD5 hash
Duh.

I read the original post. I disagree with a community of this magnitude being able to shun anyone they see fit. When this happens, you get a dictatorship that discredits anyone who can bring competition that is greater than their own.

Player BR 1 plays for the first time, goes on a killing spree because he's on fucking cocaine or uber amounts of redbull gets a tribunal. NC bastard.

Yea he gets appealed, it goes to tribunal...gets rejected. or perhaps it does not, and goes to a GM for punishment...like it would without the tribunal and the GM rejects it.

i did post this in my first post, because i knew some people just would not get it, but here it is again:

Remember, this system, while the players can pardon a player, they cant punish them only a GM can do that.

Crator · 2011-12-26, 12:49 AM

We'll just have to see. If having F2P will have issues with hackers most likely. They'll have to do something about it if it gets out of hand....

SKYeXile · 2011-12-26, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

Edit: Debate me. I would so much like to stop and say you are right and given the circumstances that everyone was intelligent and mature enough to adhere to a plan like this where thousands are involved, I would love to know how you see to make this work. Voting maybe?

I don't discredit the idea. I really do not. But we all know how people are, especially in clicks. In these 'clicks' we have the potential for thousands of people to be involved. Why should one person have to answer to prominent party if he did nothing wrong at all but play the game very well or rightfully retaliate against, say, the leader of that outfit who was an asshat to BR1 first?

Pointless, you don't understand the the concept.

xSlideShow · 2011-12-26, 02:13 AM

Seems like a fairly good system. Lots of checks in LoL's system.

Xyntech · 2011-12-26, 04:21 AM

The concept wouldn't have much of any room for players using the system to abuse other players. It amounts to a community filtration system to lighten the load on the GMs. No player would ever be punishing anyone, only filtering the load so that the real offenders get punished more quickly.

This would obviously help as part of the anti cheat solution, but like Sky said, the biggest use of this would be to reduce the amount of asshats fucking with people inside the games own rules.

Grief points are great, but they can also be abused, forcing grief on someone who doesn't deserve it.

He pointed out a lot of these things already. I'm not sure what the issue is. The system seems pretty fool proof, with not much in the way of negatives to offset the positives.

It's never going to be the primary way of dealing with hackers, but it will help, and more importantly, it will be a way to deal with game disrupting troublemakers who would never get caught through an automatic system.

The team obviously are fans of LoL, so hopefully this is something that they are aware of and are able to implement.

SKYeXile · 2011-12-26, 04:39 AM

Originally Posted by Xyntech

The concept wouldn't have much of any room for players using the system to abuse other players. It amounts to a community filtration system to lighten the load on the GMs. No player would ever be punishing anyone, only filtering the load so that the real offenders get punished more quickly.

This would obviously help as part of the anti cheat solution, but like Sky said, the biggest use of this would be to reduce the amount of asshats fucking with people inside the games own rules.

Grief points are great, but they can also be abused, forcing grief on someone who doesn't deserve it.

He pointed out a lot of these things already. I'm not sure what the issue is. The system seems pretty fool proof, with not much in the way of negatives to offset the positives.

It's never going to be the primary way of dealing with hackers, but it will help, and more importantly, it will be a way to deal with game disrupting troublemakers who would never get caught through an automatic system.

The team obviously are fans of LoL, so hopefully this is something that they are aware of and are able to implement.

Exactly, its not like you could have a hacker in your guild and your entire guild dismiss the ticket or something, ticks are assigned randomly, and as a fail-safe only tickets from another server.

Effective · 2011-12-26, 04:55 AM

Duke, STOP POSTING, you clearly have no idea what the hell you're talking about and it is plainly obvious YOU DID NOT READ THE POST.

The idea of using a tribunal system to view griefers sounds like a good idea to me, but it's a little complex (as you mentioned) in an open world mmo. The information obtained in the LOL Tribunal is usually pretty minimal, you can see chat logs, item builds, and previous reports on the player from other games.

Still, not a terrible idea, especially the bit about making it easier for GM's.

Coreldan · 2011-12-26, 06:35 AM

Gaming does not rule my world, I probably would end up not playing if they tried to close the shit I run in the background.

I am not going to reboot after each time I've played Planetside. This would alienate a lot of people who arn't that hardcore about Planetside. I am, but theres a limit with the amount of shit I would take from a game too

That said, the idea about the game checking your dxdiag at every launch could work? If the player gets banned, the submitted dxdiag gets banned. If the same dxdiag tries to play on another account, no luck!