A small Idea for basic engineeres

[noodles]

Obviously Engineeres are a valuable asset to any squad, platoon, outfit, or anyone that has some sort of armor for that matter. So why not offer exp with that? I'm not saying that it should be any signifacant amount but maybe something like 2 exp to every 32 armor points restored? Base it on the ant run exp. Or maybe exp for a vehicle or armor succesfully completely restored. Nothing to much because if it is too high exp than it would be insanly easy for any engineere to catch rank. Just something for a little insintive for them.
I also think that this would make alot of battles for interesting and it would help to encourage ppl to take on the "support" role wich is so viltal to and battle.

[Fenrys]

If not exp, then at least outfit points. Supports needs <3

[Chaaos]

Maybe they should give exp for rezing people? Nobody seems to have the cert or if they have it they dont seem to want to use it. Might give a little more incentive to pick up a very under-used ability.

Just an idea to kick around.

[SilverLord]

Basic engineeing and combat engineer are fine and dandy as is. What needs help is the basic med and adv. med.

[ORANGE]

Originally Posted by noodles

Obviously Engineeres are a valuable asset to any squad, platoon, outfit, or anyone that has some sort of armor for that matter. So why not offer exp with that? I'm not saying that it should be any signifacant amount but maybe something like 2 exp to every 32 armor points restored? Base it on the ant run exp. Or maybe exp for a vehicle or armor succesfully completely restored. Nothing to much because if it is too high exp than it would be insanly easy for any engineere to catch rank. Just something for a little insintive for them.

This has been brought up before and I think I may have heard the devs say it was a good idea so someday it might come into play.

Originally Posted by Chaaos

Maybe they should give exp for rezing people? Nobody seems to have the cert or if they have it they dont seem to want to use it. Might give a little more incentive to pick up a very under-used ability.

Just an idea to kick around.

Lots of people have it they just never seem to want to use it on anyone outside their squad/platoon/outfit.

[Majik]

Originally Posted by Chaaos

Maybe they should give exp for rezing people? Nobody seems to have the cert or if they have it they dont seem to want to use it. Might give a little more incentive to pick up a very under-used ability.

Just an idea to kick around.

Well speaking for the Adv Meds out here, it's not that we don't want to rez people, whether they are part of our squad/outfit or not. The problem is where people need rezzing is always in the middle of the heaviest fighting where they either release before we can get to them, or we get killed trying to get to them. Most of my deaths in large battles occur because I am kneeling with the med app in my hands over someones corpse when an enemy comes around the corner and wastes me because no one provides cover for the medics/engineers to do their work.

[Warborn]

I don't see why Medical/Engineering activities should get experience. They're still just as effective at killing as anyone else, unless Med/Engi tools take up rifle slots now. And besides, you are, in a way, getting experience for resurrecting/healing/repairing allies. They'll therefore be able to stay in combat longer, and if they're in your squad or platoon, there's a good chance that they'll end up killing at least one more person, giving you some experience for helping them continue to fight.

I can't see Medical/Engineering tasks being awarded any real amount of exp without making it too easy to exploit and abuse, either.

[Krinsath]

Originally Posted by Warborn

I don't see why Medical/Engineering activities should get experience. They're still just as effective at killing as anyone else, unless Med/Engi tools take up rifle slots now. And besides, you are, in a way, getting experience for resurrecting/healing/repairing allies. They'll therefore be able to stay in combat longer, and if they're in your squad or platoon, there's a good chance that they'll end up killing at least one more person, giving you some experience for helping them continue to fight.

I can't see Medical/Engineering tasks being awarded any real amount of exp without making it too easy to exploit and abuse, either.

Well, a few things...

1) The vehicle repair tool does indeed take up a rifle slot.

2) Advanced Medic is 5 certs...at a low BR that means they have given up being an AV trooper, a MAX, a Sniper, or even a SA user. It is a sacrifice to become a support soldier and they are NOT always as effective at killing (Suppressor vs. any HA = dead).

3) Why SHOULDN'T they get experience for it? Are they not using their cert as intended? That's why ANT drivers get XP, they're using they ANT to do it's job. Same logic on the weaponry...when you get a kill you're doing your job. Why should support be second class?

4) They've giving up certs on the CHANCE that the guy they just healed is going to kill someone else IF they're in the same squad (which isn't damned likely). That's the kind of odds I'd expect in Vegas, and it's not entirely fair. Of course, the guy you just rezzed has no armor, so you need to fix that...what's that you say? I'm up to 8 support certs now? Boy...I'm glad I don't get any experience from this!

Yes, a lot of systems would be open to abuse. I've said many times that medics should get XP from rezzing soldiers killed by enemy fire (something already tracked) and engs should get XP for repairing MAXes and vehicles below 50% armor. 20XP for repairs, 50XP from heals. Would take a long long time to get anywhere off those numbers. Exploiters would do better to get an ANT and a Galaxy and just fly around milking XP that way.

Put in a mechanism to make it only enemy damage counts, and remarkably the system becomes almost self-correcting. Why? Because anytime you have a fight between two empires, a hot spot generally pops up, which then attracts Instant Action people (ask anyone who's tried to run some sort of duel).

Does the system need to be well thought out? Yes...should it be in there? Yes. Support classes have been neglicted for far too long.

[Incompetent]

Your last suggestion is invalidated by the fact you can play 2 empires per server, and the fact that giving negligable amounts of XP doesn't address the real problem. It lets 3 guys in a backwater tower milk the system for what is essentially free outfit points and XP, but it doesn't give ME a god damn thing. They shouldn't aim support certs at BR5s so they can level faster and drop them once they get to the higher BRs, they need to make them useful so high BR chars have a reason to cert in the damn things.

Edit: Combat Engy/Adv medic here, xp fixes nothing, fix the cert.

[Warborn]

Originally Posted by Krinsath

Well, a few things...

1) The vehicle repair tool does indeed take up a rifle slot.

Yeah, I know. Medical Applicator and BANK don't, however, and given that they're the most popular support tools I don't think the caulk gun changes things.

2) Advanced Medic is 5 certs...at a low BR that means they have given up being an AV trooper, a MAX, a Sniper, or even a SA user. It is a sacrifice to become a support soldier and they are NOT always as effective at killing (Suppressor vs. any HA = dead).

This is a pretty ridiculous statement. Who in their right mind, at BR2, blows all their certs on support? You've got to be really new to the game to do something like that. No person who is serious about contributing to a fight would buy Advanced Medical even before getting at least Medium Assault, unless they're one of the people who thinks the surpressor is a very good weapon, which some people certainly do.

3) Why SHOULDN'T they get experience for it? Are they not using their cert as intended? That's why ANT drivers get XP, they're using they ANT to do it's job. Same logic on the weaponry...when you get a kill you're doing your job. Why should support be second class?

Support should be second class because it is second class. Once I hit BR 20, I could, if I wanted to, have Advanced Engineering, and Advanced Medical if I decided to spend my two spare certs on another Adv. certification. But, the point is that I am absolutely not, by any means at all, a support player. I snipe, and grunt when the situation calls for it, and I do it well despite having so many support certs. The benefit is that I am also a greater asset to the squad, because I can also heal/repair guys.

The point I'm making is that you're asking why support should be a second class role, when support isn't even a role. Anyone who plays support only and doesn't use their weapon is not seriously playing with effectiveness and winning in mind, they're using a gimmick. The day that support people give up their ability to kill enemies with weapons is the day they become a role into and of themself. Right now, support is a little footnote after someone's real job, be it HA infantry or sniper or infiltrator or whatever. There are no non-combatants in Planetside.

4) They've giving up certs on the CHANCE that the guy they just healed is going to kill someone else IF they're in the same squad (which isn't damned likely). That's the kind of odds I'd expect in Vegas, and it's not entirely fair. Of course, the guy you just rezzed has no armor, so you need to fix that...what's that you say? I'm up to 8 support certs now? Boy...I'm glad I don't get any experience from this!

How much does MA cost? Three certs? I have no problem getting kills with a cycler or sweeper. I don't know what you're making such a fuss over. Unless you get Advanced Medical/Engineering/Hacking, you've got plenty of certs left over for weapons and armor and maybe a vehicle or two, but even if you got all support certs, you'd still have some left over to pick up even Heavy Assault, if you wanted to.

[Uberpimp]

Giving exp to engi's and medics isn't a half bad idea who else but a medic (other than me) would run out into battle with relativley no gun. Yes I'm crazy....

[EarlyDawn]

Didn't the devs say some huge changes comming eventually for support classes? If you ask me, all the inadaquicies in the support certs are gonna be handled by the alternate advancement system.

[Peacemaker]

Too exploitable... think about it. Squad shoots one guy in the squadand the engi repairs. Rinse and repeat.

[dscytherulez]

The problem with giving XP to support is its exploit factor. You could get one guy in your squad and take turns shooting eachother to near death, then repair/heal them. Same goes for the rezzing.

[Mognoc]

Warborn, in actuality, Adv. Med / Adv Engineering. Spitfires and a Motion detector around an AMS - Stops infil AMS Jackers. And I don't know about the non Europe servers, but our CE's do this a lot. One soldier I've forgotten the name of on Werner once was *the* reason we captured Voltan after a 5 hour battle, because she was Adv Medic and Engy, and kept rezzing our dead MAXes then repairing them, So the statment

Originally Posted by Warborn

This is a pretty ridiculous statement. Who in their right mind, at BR2, blows all their certs on support? You've got to be really new to the game to do something like that. No person who is serious about contributing to a fight would buy Advanced Medical

is not true.