To all the new guys

[Huma]

I know you think all of us PS1 vets are just crusty old farts that are afraid of change. But you have to look at it from our perspective. A lot of us have been playing this game for about 8 years. We've seen it's up and downs and everything between. We've also played the same FPS games you as well. So we have a unique perspective on what works and doesnt work.
We're by no means all knowing but we do have a very good idea how something will affect the style of gameplay offered by PS. So bear that in mind when we go off on ideas that are perceive as detracting from game play or creating balancing issues. We know we aren't the devs but after years of seesaw balancing and content pushes we're all pretty good at recognizing problems.
That being said keep the ideas coming.

[Raymac]

And stay off my lawn

[Graywolves]

Young whippersnappers, thinking they know everything, they don't even know what a real war on Auraxis looks like! Back in my day we faught in one location for half a day and it was amazing and fun!

These youngins don't even know what a MAX crash looks like!

[Huma]

Originally Posted by Graywolves

Young whippersnappers, thinking they know everything, they don't even know what a real war on Auraxis looks like! Back in my day we faught in one location for half a day and it was amazing and fun!

These youngins don't even know what a MAX crash looks like!

Up hill both ways in 6 feet of snow with no boots!

[zuesrocks]

Originally Posted by Raymac

And stay off my lawn

lol

[FIREk]

I've played PS1 for years back when it was good. I remember playing until late night, when pops weren't high enough to sustain a battle around a single base. I remember massive battles, massive forces mobilizing in sanctuaries, queues in warpgates before BWGs were invented... I remember a lot of awesome stuff from back when PS1 wasn't falling apart.
Unfortunately, the gameplay mechanics were poor back then and have aged even worse. The game is barely playable by today's standards.
I would rather see revolutionary, or just plain modern ideas, rather than cling to prehistoric design as if it was a good thing.

As much as I like the humorous comments in this thread, I've seen so much fear of change on these forums, it stopped being funny a while ago. A lot of it seems more akin to desperation - clinging to what is known, and shunning the new.
It's like there's this group of people who know the ins and outs of PS1 and seem skilled in that game, but, deep inside, fear that, when they lose the edge that comes from experience and repetition, they won't be able to adapt to something new, due to a lack of actual skill.
No one in particular, of course, since I haven't been around here to get a good idea of who is who.
Anyway, I hope I'm wrong, but that's the impression I get every time I see someone defending blatantly aged and obsolete gameplay elements, which have been phased out of subsequent games, one generation at a time, for a reason.

A quick-draw knife isn't a bad thing, as long as the damage is balanced for large-scale combat. Same thing goes for headshots and faster TTK.
Instantly embarking/disembarking vehicles, for instance, is a bad idea, but it's because of the different scale of PS2, and a higher value of vehicles, since they won't just respawn in 30 seconds, 100 meters from where it was just blown up.
Bottom line, just because something (barely) "worked in PS1" doesn't mean it won't be 100 times more exciting if it were made differently.

Ideally, PS2 will have modern gameplay and pacing practically ripped off from Battlefield: Bad Company 2 (and BF3 perhaps), combined with core elements (but not mechanics) of PS1.
I trust that SOE will integrate into PS2 the best qualities that made PS1 so epic. Gameplay mechanics were not among them.

[Sirisian]

Don't worry not all of us old vets are resistant to change.

[FIREk]

Originally Posted by Sirisian

Don't worry not all of us old vets are resistant to change.

Do I count as a vet if I'm retired? :P

[Huma]

I would say that I'm not so much as resistant to change as I am to things that take away from what made PS so great. For me the best part of PS is how much teamwork plays into doing well in the game. Hence why I'm against things that detract from teamplay. As for stuff like quick knifing I'm against it only because of how ridiculos it can get. There are elements of modern FPS games that are great but there is a lot that leads to some really lame gameplay.

[FIREk]

I've played Modern Warfare for a while and was hooked on Bad Company 2 for may a month, and I can assure you of two things:
1) whether or not someone is a team player is 100% down to the player himself/herself; teamplay can't be forced (PS1 is a perfect example, with all the killhoes and soloers you can find) and, if you spend some time playing any objective-based game, you will see that people with a penchant for teamplay will play as a team - it is its own reward ,
2) a quick-draw knife, even if it's one-stab-one-kill with a 2-meter lunge, will only be used as a last resort, or for humiliation, never as a main weapon; bullets, in any game, are always more convenient.

Most importantly, though, the modern-ness of current FPS games is there as a result of evolution. No all of it will fit a massive FPS game, but when I look back to when I played PlanetSide, I can't imagine how I could have found that gameplay enjoyable, especially the slow weapon switching...
On the other hand, games like Unreal Tournament 3 haven't evolved much and I don't look back at playing Quake 2 CTF with the same kind of surprise. Except for being able to play on a modem with a 300ms+ ping and what I think was absolutely no client-side hit detection.

[Talek Krell]

Originally Posted by FIREk

2) a quick-draw knife, even if it's one-stab-one-kill with a 2-meter lunge, will only be used as a last resort, or for humiliation, never as a main weapon;

What about that loadout that you could get in one of the CoDs? Something about a "commando perk" and some other stuff making knifing super effective (can you tell I never played CoD? )? Even in Bad company 2 it's a little crazy sometimes.

[FIREk]

Originally Posted by Talek Krell

What about that loadout that you could get in one of the CoDs? Something about a "commando perk" and some other stuff making knifing super effective (can you tell I never played CoD? )? Even in Bad company 2 it's a little crazy sometimes.

Back when I played MW1, everyone had Martyr, Last Stand, more grenades (to throw randomly after respawning) and some statistical advantage buffs. It may just be me, or the servers I played on, but I have never seen someone use the knife as a main weapon, regardless of how exploitable it might be.


I'm sure PS2 will have all the key bases covered (large scale, persistent gameplay, teamwork-oriented tools like huge 40-person platoons, three very different factions). The rest is just icing on the cake. I just hope the icing will be fresh, rather than expired since 2003.

Also, weapon bashing sounds pretty nice. I'm very much in favor of quick-draw knives that don't insta-gib, but deal a set amount of damage. A rifle butt will do that just as well, only that it needs to do as much damage as around two bullets (I'm assuming around 25-40% health), which makes more sense with a knife.
Also, a knife that insta-kills on a headshot or in the back rewards cunning, skill and cloakers, unless the later exploit the possibility. A rifle butt or pistol grip would prooobably not fit the bill. :P

As for TTKs, don't get me wrong - BFBC2's TTK is perfect, and I hope this is where SOE is aiming for in PS2. I don't think anyone here wants retarded Modern Warfare "hardcore mode" (or, as I call it, "lamecore mode") insta-gib BB guns.

[Talek Krell]

Originally Posted by FIREk

Also, a knife that insta-kills on a headshot or in the back rewards cunning, skill and cloakers, unless the later exploit the possibility.

As long as it never really makes more sense to knife someone in the face when you could just shoot them, I don't mind what sort of melee weapon they use. I was actually rather fond of the BC2 knife. Which is odd because I have no idea exactly how it worked. I swear there were at least two or three times where I actually parried with the thing. Somebody would charge me and I'd knife just after they did. Half a second later I have new dog tags and they're complaining in chat.

[Grimster]

Well to be serious for a moment it lies within human nature to be afraid of changes.

So basically it is a natural behavior. Not saying you should be just explaining why it might be so common.

[p0intman]

Class setups ala cod and bf are fucking stupid on a planetside-level scale. thats all im saying, some of these new guys are fucking retarded.