Compromise for the driver=gunner issue.

[BorisBlade]

Since they seem determined to stick with the BF style, solo power tanks. I was tryin to think of a compromise to the problem. This is what i came up with that required the least amount of changes while still leavin their idea mostly intact.

A driver specialization. This completely voluntary spec would allow you to gain a "driver only" slot in appropriate vehicles. As in it wouldn't work on reavers or lightnings, but on most other vehicles that have the gunner=driver idea.

As a trade off for losing the weapon and requiring more manpower, you also gain more armor, significantly more, atleast a third more. Since you do require 50% more manpower a third more armor minimum seems fair. This allows for the more solo-style tanks to have their more appropriate weaker armor while giving those who work as a team in focused roles with more manpower the benefits of better (focused) drivers/gunners and the armor to make up for the manpower needed.

There are no vehicle enter/exit animations so zero changes other than the new entry point would need to be activated upon certing, a relatively simple thing. The only real change would be to vehicles designed for rambo play like the magrider. Its gotta get a real turret like an actual tank. But that's hopefully one of the only vehicles that would need a model change.

Seems like a mostly simple fix to appease the devs who want their solo stuff and the majority of vets who prefer the more team oriented style. I for one would be fine with that. The opportunity to show the Battlefielders how much better the Planetside design is as we literally run circles around em as they try to drive/gun at the same time and get decimated.

At this point I'll settle for anything to get atleast somethin of Planetside to remain, esp my fave part. But I'm interested to hear any of your ideas, suggestions, or tweaks.

[Draep]

The driver taking control of the main gun is just a bad idea. It has also spawned the even worse idea of adding secondary AA. Honestly, no compromise should take place, its a bad system and I think we'll see that in beta. With that being said, you have a decent idea. Anything that can give the driver his job back is a good thing.

[Sirisian]

Don't worry I'll leave the thread alone since I completely disagree with it.

Originally Posted by Draep

Anything that can give the driver his job back is a good thing.

Surely you mean give the gunner his old job back?

[nomotog]

What if you just included two kinds of tanks. Some with the driver controlling the main gun some with the driver controlling a side gun or no gun. (The driver should control some kind of gun I think even if it's just a laser pointer.) Actually well we are at it. Lets get crazy. Have tanks that hold 4 turrets and a driver.

[Furret]

I always thought the magrider was a good compromise, the driver could gun, and take out infantry, but you couldn't expect to do much against vehicles with it. They already have vehicles for solo players, drive a lightning, don't change up the game for the people who like teamwork.

[Draep]

Originally Posted by Furret

I always thought the magrider was a good compromise, the driver could gun, and take out infantry, but you couldn't expect to do much against vehicles with it. They already have vehicles for solo players, drive a lightning, don't change up the game for the people who like teamwork.

I see that the community is pretty much universally against the drivers taking over the spot of the main gunner. I just wonder why the devs thought it would be popular with Joe Gamer. It's pretty early in the development cycle I'm assuming so maybe they'll change it to what it should be.

[Brusi]

sweet, another whole thread about this.

[nomotog]

It might just be that the game plays better when drivers act as gunners.

[Lonehunter]

As long as no single driver with a gun can beat a tank with a driver and gunner It'll be fine

[SgtMAD]

we don't know that the gunner thing isn't going to be changed,we don't need to be compromising yet.

wait for beta and let everyone see how this idea sux

[Talek Krell]

Originally Posted by HtSgtMAD

we don't that the gunner thing isn't going to be changed,we don't need to be compromising yet.

wait for beta and let everyone see how this idea sux

Going with Mad on this one. The forum is rife with reasonable fixes at this point, I think we've accomplished about all we can with brainstorming alone.

[BorisBlade]

Originally Posted by HtSgtMAD

we don't know that the gunner thing isn't going to be changed,we don't need to be compromising yet.

wait for beta and let everyone see how this idea sux

I have been sayin that about most ideas, because they can be changed easily enough. This one tho, isnt so easy. If they keep this up, then we get more of those awful magriders which will not work for a team based vehicle at all. And it could apply to other things like skills etc that are based on this non-teamplay idea.

If we have a bunch of vehicles, skills, weapons, systems, etc all designed for this solo way, then it becomes too difficult and time consuming to change it all at that point and so we get stuck with it. Even the very limited info we know already requires a complete redo of the magrider. (i vote shrink it and make it the ES variant of the lightning!!!)

But yeah, most other things can be ironed out in beta, just gotta catch the stuff that really cant before it gets developed too far into the core of the game.

[BorisBlade]

Originally Posted by Lonehunter187

As long as no single driver with a gun can beat a tank with a driver and gunner It'll be fine

No, you are missing the point. Its still a solo buff rather than a vehicle. And there are plenty of us who love to just drive. I dont even use the PPA on the magrider when i play, other than once in a million years (of course it was a pain to use with all the sway). I love driving for my crew and focusing on gettin them a good shot while avoiding enemy fire. Nothin more fun than having a good driver paired with a good gunner(s). And dont get me wrong i dont mind gunning, thats fun when ya get a good pilot. But i do not wanna gun and drive at the same time, and unlike the magrider, you cant not use the main gun or you are worthless. On top of that, if you are in the secondary slot, you have to put up with half ass driving from someone who is tryin to shoot and drive all at once. Screw that.

And because it is so solo focused it will have to have much weaker armor compared to what a real tank should have. It will be much more like bf where you die rather fast even in a tank. And in a game with a zillion people thats awful design. We need a vehicle that can take the hits, its slow and cumbersome as a downside and needs its 3 people but has high armor and can take a beating to help push forward.

The teamwork focus is so much more fun, this is not a random deathmatch game, its an MMO. We will have Outfits (guilds) and make many friends all of which who can gun for us as we drive. It gives the feel of teamwork and an actual operation goin with reality in drivers not gunning. It improves the social aspect. And prevents the "buff" feel that solo vehicles get, and the more solo mindset you get. I dont really feel like part of my squad when we are all runnin around in our own lightnings. It just doesn feel as epic at all.

[Malorn]

The best compromise is to do it how PS1 did it.

You have 1-man killwhore vehicles (Lightning, Reaver, etc)
You have 2-man (or more) teamwork vehicles that have a lot more impact potential and power (ES Tanks, buggies, Liberator, Sundy)

For vehicles that are similar they can have some common certs in the tree. But going down one way would improve the 1-man vehicles and going down the other way improves the 2-man vehicles, with some shared.

PS1's system worked. It worked very well. I'm not sure why they feel the need to change something so fundamental to planetside.

[Furret]

Originally Posted by Malorn

PS1's system worked. It worked very well. I'm not sure why they feel the need to change something so fundamental to planetside.

They want the people who put the certs into the vehicle to be able to use the vehicle. Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with that, but that's where the Armored Assault I and II system worked. If you wanted to solo-whore, which is the type of group PS2 is starting to shift to, you could spend 2 certs and get your lightning. But if you really wanted to be effective, get a friend and pay an extra cert for that vanny.