Simple – Air Strikes

[LongBow]

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Intro goes here – skip it, or find it at the bottom!
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Goal:
To find a solution that allows Aircraft and Infantry, to interact positively in a direct combined arms effort. The solution should improve the effectiveness and sense of role for both units, when good teamwork is used. This should be done, where possible, without compromising the experience of players on either faction.


Core Idea:
To use “target designation” to allow infantry to guide aircraft or their weapons onto the chosen target.


Key points:
# The kill should be treated as belonging to the infantry with the aircraft assisting.
# The aircraft must maintain LOS with the designator's “hit” in order to maintain a lock (or the weapons must not be capable of indirect fire).
# Neither player must have to enter a menu to start a separate sequence, and Ideally neither player should have to use an options menu for this system ever.

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Possible Implementation:

My preferred implementation is through the use of items. At the core you need two: a designator and a weapon capable of locking on to it, but we can do better than that!

I'm thinking three designator types …
1) A pistol slot using item that points” to the target this does not have to simply be a laser but it could be. This should be available to anyone who wishes to add one to their inventory.
2) A grenade that becomes the target, the disadvantage it it obviously becomes static however the advantage is that the target can be created indirectly. Available to to those who start the “command certs”
3) A weapon attachment, acts the same way as the pistol slot Item only is now a high level command reward.

Then we need weapons:
These could be anything from missiles to chain guns; the point is though, that this specific weapon option should require a target lock in order to fire. Any weapon should also do more damage than the comparable aircraft fitting.

and link the two together:
For this think simple … a designator should produce a target icon, visible to the pilot. Then the pilot should aim at this icon, when charged the icon should be “locked on” the pilot can then fire at that target for as long as it remains no matter his/her current facing. When an aircraft locks on the designator cross hairs should turn red and a small counter appear showing the number of “lock-ons”
This target lock should remain as long as … no new target is “locked on”, the aircraft has LOS on the target and the designator continues to point to a target.
If a target is lost while ordnance is on route the weapon should attack the “last known position”

Adding the mission system:
Just because the mission system isn't directly used both designator and air support could be made mission roles and added to what is effectively just a group making system.

Finally teamwork can be exclusive...
deciding who you display targets to & you you display them from, can be important to those looking for squad synergy, a simple UI element indicating if the current missions displayed/created are from/for public, squad or outfit. That could be cycled through using a key bound control.
(...and obviously ignore anything from a player on the ignore list)

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Intro -

Hi, Ash here.

The following is just a little something I have had floating around over the past few days after reading: http://www.planetside-universe.com/f...ad.php?t=38016.

It got me thinking about how to make a link between aircraft and infantry, but in a way that would benefit both, and that both sides would enjoy using.

So what follows is about a days worth of off handed thoughts that I figured I'd write down for posterity =D

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Note: I in no way claim that the sample data I had access to is large enough to be representative or that my opinions of the attitudes held by stereo-typed gamers have been formed from anything more than personal experience.

These are thoughts that I hope will inspire others to create a better working solution, and is not a pitch to SOE!
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So, on with the show …
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[Raka Maru]

Good ideas! I like!

[GuvNuh]

My best thought on this is to give some aircraft and tanks a few optional auto-targeting weapons a person could stick on. smaller cycler systems and chainguns would be available at lower levels(Sorry, i'm TR, so it's from our perspective) to stick onto vehicles. when a designator within the weapons targeting range went active the guns would begin to auto target enemies. I figure it would be a specific target in the instance of laser designators, and random acquisition in the case of the area grenade-beacon, with accuracy determined by how far into the grenade's detection range the unit was. the grenade itself could have a 15-20 second active timer. After that it would detonate or become useless.

You could also incorporate a time or numeric factor, require x amount of target painting before warheads can lock on, or require lases from several designators to acquire the requisite signal strength to lock on.

As a side note the targeting grenades would have to be destructible.

At higher vehicle proficiency levels you could unlock larger weapons (I would love a laser targeting MIRV artillery launcher for mah prowler. even if you only got 1-2 shots before having to reload at base)

you would have to scale it somehow though, you dont want a bunch of automated turrets on everything, no fun. Maybe limit it to a few specific vehicles, or only allow so many active targeters at once, so that to launch larger ordinance would require quite a bit of cooperation on a number of fronts.

I'm a huge fan of Mercenaries/Mercenaries2, and especially it's airstrikes. It would be lovely to be able to incorporate it at some level into planetside2.

[Trolltaxi]

The idea seems fun, but auto-aim sounds a bad idea. I like the part that troops on the field can mark targets for the air around (like a swarming nest of nme infantry, an AMS in PS1 or a sniper somewhere in good cover). I'm sure that today's RL troops have similar gadgets, so it would fit into a sci-fi theme too.

But auto-aim isn't skill-based at all and being skill-based is major factor for PS. (imho ofc)

[GuvNuh]

I agree Trolltaxi, it's not great. Maybe the targeter would highlight enemies? How shiny you got depended on how far into the detection radius of the grenade you got? The Auto targeting idea was my attempt to incorporate the various targeters for something besides cruise missile strikes. I'd really like to see another gunship style aircraft, and being able to mark enemies for it would really increase the effectiveness of that sort of vehicle.

Another option is to have several tank and aircraft with guided weapons only. Big ordinance platforms that require guidance to hit the enemy. Think like an up-gunned version of the AC-130 or the Warthog. The MIRV Artillery from Mercenaries 2 is another good example, god i loved that airstrike. For something like that you would would have to access your factions Sat Net, and only higher level commanders would be able to, so it would control the amount and variety of ordinance that you could chuck out.

[Zulthus]

Good ideas -- but I have a few suggestions.

-Give both the infantry and the aircraft points for the kill. If the teammate wasn't in my outfit/squad I think I'd rather go for the vehicles that give points.

-No auto-aim for missiles, just a big fat indicator of where the target is so you can know where it is at all times.

[xSlideShow]

Originally Posted by LongBow

Goal:
To find a solution that allows Aircraft and Infantry, to interact positively in a direct combined arms effort. The solution should improve the effectiveness and sense of role for both units, when good teamwork is used. This should be done, where possible, without compromising the experience of players on either faction.


Core Idea:
To use “target designation” to allow infantry to guide aircraft or their weapons onto the chosen target.


Key points:
# The kill should be treated as belonging to the infantry with the aircraft assisting.

The kill should go to the aircraft. He's the on who pulled the trigger he deserves the credit. The other guy should get support experience. Or the assist.

[LongBow]

Originally Posted by xSlideShow

The kill should go to the aircraft. He's the on who pulled the trigger he deserves the credit. The other guy should get support experience. Or the assist.

Its an assist of 100% of the damage ... but credit for the actual kill goes tot he infantry because Pilots want something like this - infantry are happy to get new toys but a feature like this is not first on their list ...

Besides, the infantry is the one with the harder job here!

"general no auto-targeting quote"

The weapon locks onto and hits whatever the designator is pointed at ... the test of skill here is pilot positioning, the infantry's aim and coordination between the two.

the weapon may lock on ... but all it is "auto-hitting" is a dot =P

I am open to the idea that it hits wherever the designator was pointing at the time the trigger is pulled; that could require "skill" I guess. do not however underestimate the difficulty of pointing at a target while he just shoots bullets at you ...

Insert weapon ideas

ok how about ...

TR shoot explosive chain gun bullets, NC a nice big missile, VS an air bursting plasma needle round ...

[FastAndFree]

I like this idea, but it's a tricky issue

I think either both parties should get a kill, or both parties should get an assist. And the BEP should most definitely be shared 50/50 (what if it's a Liberator though? 33/33/33 (no love for the tailgunner?) 25/25/25/25? 50/25/25 pissing off the aircraft crew?)

Using the weapon needs to be convenient for the pilot, because teamwork notwithstanding, from his point of view he is giving up half the BEP from a kill. (I'm going with selfish here)
If he additionally has to carry around weapons that can only do this, and are useless when not guided from the ground, will he bother?
This should be a different firemode for normal aircraft ordnance.

Of course if tanks have mortars (I think that has been mentioned) they should also be able to engage illuminated targets

[xSlideShow]

Originally Posted by FastAndFree

I like this idea, but it's a tricky issue

I think either both parties should get a kill, or both parties should get an assist. And the BEP should most definitely be shared 50/50 (what if it's a Liberator though? 33/33/33 (no love for the tailgunner?) 25/25/25/25? 50/25/25 pissing off the aircraft crew?)

Using the weapon needs to be convenient for the pilot, because teamwork notwithstanding, from his point of view he is giving up half the BEP from a kill. (I'm going with selfish here)
If he additionally has to carry around weapons that can only do this, and are useless when not guided from the ground, will he bother?
This should be a different firemode for normal aircraft ordnance.

Of course if tanks have mortars (I think that has been mentioned) they should also be able to engage illuminated targets

Really? Cause I'm a pilot and I will not a do a fire mission for an infantry unless I'm getting credit for the kill. I don't need somebody pointing targets out for me. Pretty good at kill whoring on my own.

In the end me the pilot is providing them the infantry the service.

I'm fine with the guy who set up the mission to get = exp. I just want my name in the kill spam. With it going towards my k/d. Otherwise I'm 100% certain that I would not do these missions I would just stick to my own agenda.

[DviddLeff]

The key is to keep it as simple as possible, lets break it down; what do we want from the system?

1. The ability for infantry to call in support fire (not just vehicles, but also clusters of infantry).
2. For infantry to get some credit for the kills.

If you give infantry two options; lase the target area/vehicle or use an infra red signal grenade to point out the area.

Then any friendly vehicle (and potentially artillery) nearby sees the target and can direct their fire that way, getting credit for the kills as usual but also extra XP as they have provided support fire. The infantry get XP and whatever assist awards may be in the game.

Vehicles/artillery drivers could switch off seeing these targets if they wished, or restrict it to squad/platoon targets for clarity.

[fuzzehthehydra]

1+ This could work particularly well in tandem with recon/infil, secretly marking MAXes and tanks for execution before the start of a heavy assault.

But surely both parties should get points for a successful execution? Otherwise, pilots probably wouldn't bother and they'd just use regularr AA or AI instead.

[Raka Maru]

Originally Posted by FastAndFree

I like this idea, but it's a tricky issue

I think either both parties should get a kill, or both parties should get an assist. And the BEP should most definitely be shared 50/50 (what if it's a Liberator though? 33/33/33 (no love for the tailgunner?) 25/25/25/25? 50/25/25 pissing off the aircraft crew?)

Using the weapon needs to be convenient for the pilot, because teamwork notwithstanding, from his point of view he is giving up half the BEP from a kill. (I'm going with selfish here)
If he additionally has to carry around weapons that can only do this, and are useless when not guided from the ground, will he bother?
This should be a different firemode for normal aircraft ordnance.

Of course if tanks have mortars (I think that has been mentioned) they should also be able to engage illuminated targets

Yes, painting goes far beyond air strikes.

As ground troop with a laze, it's always your ass on the line when painting. Split kill/xp definitely with ground troop 50/50.

There should also be two modes when painting, area/single. The aoe shooters will see a different mark for the hot zone. The single target can have type of unit revealed as well when fully painted (2sec?)

This will attract air support, ground arty and snipers to take out the painted target, and an enemy squad who's been looking for that dam cloaker forever. always have a getaway vehicle.

Share kill/xp 50/50 because this in its basic form is a spotter/shooter relationship. Let the spotter decide if they will make the info empire public, squad or outfit.