How a cash store can be more than just a store

[Skitrel]

There's a difference between a regular cash store, where players can simply buy stuff to use and a great cash store that expands into and entirely different thing that has it's own meta game in and of itself.

Right now, everyone seems to be treating the cash store simply as a regular store, and that's the way it looks like it's going to be so far.

I want to suggest that trading of items be implemented, along with the addition of random boxes and entropy in terms of the ability to earn certain items of varying levels of rarity through in game actions.

If we look at TF2's system, you can earn items in game through play, occasionally earning very rare stuff, but mostly earning crap. This expands into the meta though, all because of keys and the ability for players to trade their items with one another.

What do keys do? Keys essentially give players a box to open, in this box will be a random item, it could be crap, it could be rare and valuable.

TF2 players took keys and turned them into a trading currency, they trade keys with one another for items, varying rarities of items adding up to x number of keys. In the long run the random factor of keys can be understood and as such one can expect to get x value in rare items from x number of keys. This in and of itself causes players to purchase keys, many many keys, in order to trade items with one another and build their enormous collections of hats. It works particularly because players trade with one another for the rare stuff, and the stuff that is only special event items, limited items that can only be earned during particular time periods, such as when they made special keys, like the various special winter keys, which would only work during their limited period.

I propose that such entropy be introduced into the store in order to take the shop from a regular boring thing into being slightly more special.

Thoughts on rare items not purchasable in shop but only earned through special random boxes? Thoughts on creating a store economy for players to take on their own transactions? Thoughts on trading of items?

Obviously, all visual or sidegrades. That point shouldn't need clarifying, but just in case.

[sylphaen]

Rare items were mentionned in the past but I do not think they mentioned trading, though.

[Skitrel]

Originally Posted by sylphaen

Rare items were mentionned in the past but I do not think they mentioned trading, though.

I personally think trading is only a good thing, it encourages the purchase of entropy items as a currency to trade with other players, causing more purchases, causing the trade of rare items for the potential of more rare items through the entropy currency.

As such, I don't think it's a bad thing in the slightest. I however may have overlooked issues it can cause in the overall system, and someone might spot something I haven't.

Personally I put a significant amount of the success TF2 has had with it's system down to the ability to trade, allowing players to trade allowed them to create their own meta game, a pokemon like game of collect ALL the things hats. Something considerably harder, bordering on impossible, without the ability to trade.

Ultimately what it could also do is allow SOE to give players from any faction items they can't actually use, items intended for other factions, thus causing that player to need to trade said item for something that they CAN potentially use. Or junk it of course. Adding more depth.

EDIT: Additionally:

[Purple]

i dont think this is a good idea. we will be fighting for resources not boxes. and rare items are not what this kind of game is about. if i want to play a game where everyone wheres silly hats ill play TF2. and i defiantly dont want people running around with guns that not everyone can get. we shouldn't turn this into a game where people only care about rare items and not killing people.

[Coreldan]

Yeah, not exactly sure if I want the tradefortress kinda stuff. Although it might make the community more.. community'ish, but I have a bit mixed feelings about it all.

[Lokster]

I never liked nor understood the keys and boxes in TF2. The keys seemed outrageously priced with an unknown % of good item retrieval from boxes. I played TF2 for hours and hours, and never once purchased a key -- I bought weapon packs and a few decorative items.

The fascination with character hats is something I don't believe I will EVER understand.

That being said, if people buy hats and keys -- SOE would be silly not to sell them and use the same concept/model as TF2. If it's there, I won't use it.

It also won't effect my decision to play the game (or spend money on it) either way.

EDIT: I suppose I will also add that I am against SILLY or OUTRAGEOUS decorative items in PS2. For the love of god -- keep the serious aspect and don't make it all silly like TF2.

[Tatwi]

SOE "gets" the random thing: See the "Loot Cards" from the EQ/EQII/SWG Trading Card games. By the end of SWG there were basically two separate "markets" in the game, due to these "Loot Cards". The normal market of items that cost less than 10 million credits, which for the most part was comprised of items that were good enough 95% of the time. Then there was the end game market, which involved rare items from all sources (looted, crafted, vet rewards, items no longer available). These rare items would sell for hundreds of millions of credits and pretty much the only people who had that kind of in game currency were the folks who bought Trading Card Game "Booster Packs" for real-life money and sold them to others for in game credits. Players would open the booster packs and hope to get a loot card. This is effectively online gambling - something I once got a temp ban for pointing out on the SOE forums; I'm not the one who makes the laws in the USA, so thanks for shooting the messenger on that one...

EDIT: I should note that in the case of the SWG economy, there was A LOT of middle ground between the valuable things people could craft/loot/harvest and the Loot Cards from the TCG. I'm pretty sure the most valuable single item in the game was a painting that was rewarded near the beginning of the game. The most valuable Loot Cards (100M+ Credits) were buildings, vehicles, and decorations where as the most valuable normal game items were Mutated Beast Master pets (90M+ Credits), rare Pre-NGE Bio Engineer pets(10M - 90M+ Credits), various looted-re-crafted weapons (Easily 70M+ Credits), and rare spawned resources (100+ Credits per unit, in stacks of 1 million units). In the end it balanced out such that people like me (normal player who did not sell Booster Packs) could work hard and earn about 1+ Billion Credits in a life time, making most rare items attainable for the dedicated person who knows which super-duper rewards he wants to choose from.

SOE also had an EQII server where players could sell items to other players for actual money. I'm not sure how that worked out, but you can research the EQII Bazaar Server for more information. However, what I do know is that when EQII went full F2P, Bazaar merged with Freeport and the real money sales aspect went away. There must be some reasoning behind that decision.

Also, the "stock" on the EQII market fluctuates which makes some SC-only items "rare". Just last month I went to buy another cat mount only to find it wasn't available any more (which was dumb for SOE, because in the end I didn't buy anything). Personally, I am not sure why a company would purposely miss out on potential sales of digital items. That said, I am all for rare items in games, because they can really inspire people - I just don't think I'd sell them, unless it was for a huge amount of money that would then justify not selling one to everybody for a normal amount of money, ya know?

[Bags]

No, I hate Trade fortress.

[Shogun]

ok, asia will get its own planetside 2, but introducing a trading system and rare items will call in the "chinafarmers" for sure.

you know, imprisoned people forced to farm the game to sell stuff or ressources for realmoney.
and especially in ps2 this will actually hurt the gameplay, because a high number of players who don´t even care for the game and would only farm or grind would decrease the fun for the real players on the server. in mmorpgs it doesn´t effect the experience of the real players that much, because the gamecontent is pve and not affected at all. but in a pvp only game the content dies if 300 players on a server don´t want to participate in the real war.

[Skitrel]

Originally Posted by Purple

if i want to play a game where everyone wheres silly hats ill play TF2

Don't get me wrong. I am not advocating silly hats. Silly hats work in TF2 because they fit the aesthetic of the game. In Planetside you would also have whatever items fit the aesthetic of the game, we already know visual items are going to be in the game, they will undoubtedly follow that rule: http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/epi...vs.-aesthetics

Graphics part irrelevant, just referencing for explanation of "aesthetic".

Originally Posted by Shogun

in a pvp only game the content dies if 300 players on a server don´t want to participate in the real war.

There are a few solutions to this, drops can be attached to achievements, something we already know is going to be in the game and thus something people will pursue. Or alternatively, simply attach it to time spent playing, every 5 hours have an item drop, idle kicking will solve any form of attempt to farm those, so what do when waiting for drops? Just play the game. Not only does this add the items, it has the potential to increase the average time spent playing, increasing server pops, increasing the people playing at one time and overall being a positive thing.

As for the comment on Chinese force gold farming. That's a little bit sensationalist from what was essentially one source that ever said anything about it to my reckoning, though quickly spread across many news sources. Jail is jail, being forced to play a videogame is better than other things they'd be doing without it. As for those that do it outside of the jails, no different to factory work really. Besides that, drops on tick counts wouldn't have the issue.

No?

[Shogun]

Originally Posted by Skitrel

As for the comment on Chinese force gold farming. That's a little bit sensationalist from what was essentially one source that ever said anything about it to my reckoning, though quickly spread across many news sources. Jail is jail, being forced to play a videogame is better than other things they'd be doing without it. As for those that do it outside of the jails, no different to factory work really. Besides that, drops on tick counts wouldn't have the issue.

No?

no.

my point wasn´t that the poor prisoners would be tortured playing planetside, the point was that a trading system would encourage this. and those farmers (no matter if they use prisoners or badly paid workers or even children) harm the game in 2 ways. the gameplay is influenced and soe will make less money with the game because you could buy items cheaper than in the soe store from those farmers. and we all know what will happen to ps2 if soe cannot make enough money.

[ThirdCross]

Originally Posted by Skitrel

Or alternatively, simply attach it to time spent playing, every 5 hours have an item drop, idle kicking will solve any form of attempt to farm those, so what do when waiting for drops?

It's pretty easy to get around idle kicking with macros.

[Purple]

i would also like to add that if people can trade skins then less people would buy them because they would just attempt to trade for them. trade is great in some games just not this one.

[Skitrel]

Originally Posted by Purple

i would also like to add that if people can trade skins then less people would buy them because they would just attempt to trade for them. trade is great in some games just not this one.

Mathematically this is completely calculable. They know their average spends per head, per daily player, per monthly player, per year. I covered this in a post regarding LoL and Zynga's released statistics and the potential earnings overall as a result of those figures. Adding trading into the mix just becomes another figure in the mathematical equation. What TF2 does with these mystery boxes is give them to players, but in order to open them the player requires a key, the key requires purchasing, the players don't get the random chance of a rare item without purchasing a key to use the box. Drops that aren't in random boxes aren't rare items.

[Knocky]

Make a thousand hats just as silly as you want.

Just give me a toggle to turn em off.