The "Help" I suck at flying!" thread

[Juryrig]

I want to be able to fly. I have a realistic level of ambition: I'm shooting for "doesn't totally suck". With a lot of practice, I might even be aiming for 'sometimes competent'.

atm, however, I am significantly worse than rubbish.

I specced into air to air, partly because I wanted to counter the hordes of AG rocket spammers that've killed me repeatedly, partly because the AG gun was in one of the bundles I bought in the store.

I'm spawning Reavers pretty much as often as I can (well, I'm not being obsessive about it, I'm enjoying all aspects of the game. But frequently enough, given that I'm not enjoying flying, to feel like I'm 'practicing' rather than just playing) and my experience generally goes like this:

- take off
- wobble away from the warpgate, getting myself pointing roughly in the direction I want to go
- spot a likely looking air target, get myself behind it. See the AA missiles start to acquire.
- notice that someone's already locked onto me
- start manouevering like mad, probably doing an aerial equivalent of a fish flopping about in the bottom of a boat
- get hit by missile no1
- get hit by gunfire, from the A/c behind, from the ground units below and from the AA batteries surrounding the enemy base I have inadvertently flown over
- die. Respawn at the nearest Sunderer and go play Engie for a while.

Rinse. Repeat. Try to stave off despair at ever getting any better.

So, issues.

1) controls. Flying with the mouse just feels wrong. Will I get used to it? Or should I just get a cheap joystick? (I've used a joystick in combat flight sims back in the day, although single player only rather than anything online)

2) situational awareness. I'm not seeing enemy aircraft on the minimap. Reading the description of the 'scout radar' cert, it isn't clear whether this makes enemies visible on my map, or only highlights them to squadmates. Anyone give me a definitive answer?

3) Hitting things. As an example of just how bad I am.....I surprised a Lib on the ground. Lined up, and hit it with some rounds from the gun. Reloaded, hit it some more. By this time it's taking off. Switched to AA missiles, by the time I'm locked on he's airborne and his tailgunner is hitting me. I fire the missile, it takes him right down in health...and his tailgunner has killed me. *sigh*fail*

So, other than "accept the inevitable and give up" any hints?

[Calisai]

Originally Posted by Juryrig

I want to be able to fly. I have a realistic level of ambition: I'm shooting for "doesn't totally suck". With a lot of practice, I might even be aiming for 'sometimes competent'.

- take off
- wobble away from the warpgate, getting myself pointing roughly in the direction I want to go
- spot a likely looking air target, get myself behind it. See the AA missiles start to acquire.
- notice that someone's already locked onto me
- start manouevering like mad, probably doing an aerial equivalent of a fish flopping about in the bottom of a boat
- get hit by missile no1
- get hit by gunfire, from the A/c behind, from the ground units below and from the AA batteries surrounding the enemy base I have inadvertently flown over
- die. Respawn at the nearest Sunderer and go play Engie for a while.

Rinse. Repeat. Try to stave off despair at ever getting any better.

Hmm... are you sure you weren't just watching me? This sounds a lot like my experience with flying in PS2. I'm getting a little better with practice, but... yea... not enough to not be disappointed. So... don't feel like you're alone.

I've found that I can fly the boats a bit easier (Gal mostly, a little Lib action)... but since I'm VS... trying to fly a Scythe is laughable for me. I'm lucky if I don't hit a mountain (on Esamir... seriously... I think I did once.) while flying. And that's a step up from blowing up 10 seconds after spawn when I first started... lol.


Guess I'll stick to ground vehicles..

[Juryrig]

Originally Posted by Calisai

I'm lucky if I don't hit a mountain (on Esamir... seriously... I think I did once.) while flying. And that's a step up from blowing up 10 seconds after spawn when I first started... lol.

I took off on Indar, realised I wasn't sure which way I needed to go, so popped open the map, keeping the 'up' and 'forward' keys held down.

By the time I closed the mapscreen I was just hitting a mountain.

[Juryrig]

Nathaniak, thanks for those tips. I'm saving for flares, but in the mean time I see people continually evading my missiles with apparent ease whilst I signally fail to avoid theirs.

Being NC on Miller we frequently have VS or TR knocking on the door at the warpgate, so I'm thinking maybe I need to try to get on at some times when it's quieter and I'll be able to practice just flying without actually getting into combat.

Tagging myself on to other groups sounds like a good approach - I've been avoiding others simply because I've been so bad so far.

[Nathaniak]

Try practicing flying on continents where you have lots of land. Just spend some time flying around behind the lines. Practice landing at various bases, shooting at landscape features, etc.

I've certed flares for my Mossie to protect against missiles. The only other alternative is to fly like a madman - dash across at ground level, jumping over mountains and putting stuff in between yourself and the missile. The missile will hopefully explode on surrounding terrain, so you can dodge it.

Set a waypoint at your warpgate. That way, if you're under fire, you know which direction to retreat to almost instantly. If you're flying into flak, then get out. Take a turn and get behind terrain to block their lines of fire. If possible,. fly with a group, even if it's just some other solo players. Keep the enemy off each other's back. If you engage targets already chasing after their own, you can get up behind them in a position where they have to break off to attack you, maybe allowing the other plane to support you.

[Javabeans]

I am with you too. No advice here... I can fly fairly well, but cannot avoid being blown to bits. Last night I was flying all by myself well behind lines doing practice maneuvers and all of a sudden there was a missile lock. I tried to fly low and get behind something, it hit me anyway and then another Lock. I tried to get away but died and respawned as a sniper and ran up into the hills by myself...

[Juryrig]

I've just started a VS.

Scythe seems a lot more forgiving than the Reaver - maybe I'm just getting more sued to it, but it definitely does feel a bit easier.

To fly generally, I mean - I still can't kill anything with it.

Oh, and since flying with the mouse seems counter-intuitive to me (nose up/nose down generally wants to be applied for much longer than roll, but the axes are the same sensitivity) I've tried binding up and down to buttons 4 and 5 on the mouse. First impressions are...it does help, a bit, but now I'm overshooting a lot.

Anyone have any experience with how joysticks are working? I've read that they aren't very well supported yet....

[Spinwardbound]

My flying experience is similar but I'm just going to keep plugging away Eventually, I'll find someone worse than me!

[Elgareth]

VS here, I heard Scythes are easier to fly...but general tips should apply as well...

Originally Posted by Juryrig

So, issues.

1) controls. Flying with the mouse just feels wrong. Will I get used to it? Or should I just get a cheap joystick? (I've used a joystick in combat flight sims back in the day, although single player only rather than anything online)

Well I haven't played a PC Game for a long time, so just going back to mouse+keyboard was unusual, however I had no exceptional Problems applying the Controls to Flying.
I did however crank the Mouse Sensivity for Flyers up to maximum. That way, my Scythe finally can do sick loopings and twists and turns MUCH more quickly than before.
However, sitting in a Gunners seat for any other flyer makes my aim go insane Luckily my gaming mouse can lower it's sensivity with the push of one Button, without having to change the ingame sensivity.

Originally Posted by Juryrig

2) situational awareness. I'm not seeing enemy aircraft on the minimap. Reading the description of the 'scout radar' cert, it isn't clear whether this makes enemies visible on my map, or only highlights them to squadmates. Anyone give me a definitive answer?

I don't even have time to look at the minimap most of the time. But me, being in a speedy Jet am mostly heading forward anyway, I don't really care whats besides/behind me, because it can't keep up with me anyway... Can't answer that though.

Originally Posted by Juryrig

3) Hitting things. As an example of just how bad I am.....I surprised a Lib on the ground. Lined up, and hit it with some rounds from the gun. Reloaded, hit it some more. By this time it's taking off. Switched to AA missiles, by the time I'm locked on he's airborne and his tailgunner is hitting me. I fire the missile, it takes him right down in health...and his tailgunner has killed me. *sigh*fail*

So, other than "accept the inevitable and give up" any hints?

Fly high, stay high. You can rise while flying by holding space, and lower your flight by holding CTRL. I usually ALWAYS hold Spacebar when flying towards an Engagement, to get high up.
Having the high ground helps so much when starting to engage, looking downwards to know where you are and seeing the landscape, Libs can't hit you when you are above it's tailgunner, you don't risk crashing when you start some crazy maneuvering in a dogfight. I tend to only fly low when I got someone on my tail and can't shake him off at all. Never helped though (I once was able to land, get out and start repairing... but the guy behind me just stopped and killed me and my ship off )

[MoonLiteNite]

just be a "show off" to yourself in canyons and stuff, and learn to hug the ground, mts and bio labs. Like you can do some amazing stuff.

Once you get that down, dodging AA shots are easy...

[Stick Pin]

What we really need is a "sanctuary" to practice/target shoot, and crash as much as we want. Not crash then wait too long to get another. I'm a flight sim enthusiast with Joysticks not WASD. Why does the mouse simply barrel roll when moved left or right, it should bank and turn at least.

[Juryrig]

Originally Posted by Stick Pin

What we really need is a "sanctuary" to practice/target shoot, and crash as much as we want. Not crash then wait too long to get another. I'm a flight sim enthusiast with Joysticks not WASD. Why does the mouse simply barrel roll when moved left or right, it should bank and turn at least.

Agreed. I improved enormously when I started an alt on a quieter server and spent some time just flying around on a continent that was being dominated by my faction. Not being shot at all the time, and being able to go into one-on-one combat rather than 10 on 10 made it possible to 'practice' rather than just spawn-die-run around shooting people whilst waiting for timer-repeat.

Some kind of safe zone (or VR equivalent) would be helpful.

As to the mouse controls - I finally figured out what feels odd to me. The planes don't fly, they float. Roll to any angle you like, and you'll just keep flying on the heading you were on, until you pitch up/down to initiate the actual turn.

Not only do we not have side-slip, we don't even have the basics of a 'physical' flight model.

Excusable for the Scythe, perhaps, which flies by future-science-magic, but the Mossie and Reaver at least pretend to use wing and body lift in combination with vectored thrust, so you'd expect banking them to initiate a turn.

Fine once you get used to it, but does give a different feel to flying compared to a flight sim.

[Ysanne]

About that "getting shred to pieces"part.

Never, never, never, never engage when you are outnumbered.

If you run into a room full with infantry, you are dead.
If you drive your tank into a full enemy base, you are dead.
If you fly into a swarm of enemy ESF... I think you get the idea.

Let the ground troops take out the AA turrets before you enter the scene. Do not chase a fleeing ESF to his base - you can be sure he has friends there.

Basically, the same rules as on ground.

What is the most dangerous thing to infantry? The Lawnmover - it takes away cover, habitat and food.

[Zakuak]

Nathaniak nailed it! I started out grabbing Libs (in case I got shot at hahah) and after the first obvious flail attempt out into the great blue I hung around WG learning the controls.

After some boring warp gate test flights I ventured out to the closest base, hugging the ground and practiced landing. I did this a lot and would turn tail and run if I saw a red in the air lol. The few times early on I tried to engage I realised I was jamming my fingures on "W" and "space" buttons all the while trying to negotiate my surroundings....didn't end to well heh

So here I am a week later, I still ground pound for most of my session but I just love getting into a lib and flying NOE. I can now put my self on the ground when and where I like and pull some good evasion tactics on command. I still suck IMO as I have yet to really rack up some kill streaks but it takes time.

Practice, practice, practice and use "free look" often for better "SA"

I still have my old X45 HOTAS laying in my closet...Haven't used that since Falcon 4.0 days...If I keep on this Liberator fetish I may have to plug that thing in. (provided I can find hardware drivers for it)

Cheers!

[The Messenger]

For those wanting to try and improve the joystick compatibility, you can try a program called joytokey. It uses a joystick to emulate keyboard and mouse presses. I have yet to try this myself but my outfit says it's better than what's already in game. It still has issues with adjusting sensitivity depending on how far you press the stick but you can bind a botton to the joystick that increases/decreases it.

http://www.oneswitch.org.uk/2/I/JoyToKey/JoyToKey.htm