The case for automated turrets

[Rothnang]

I think the turrets in bases should be automated, and attack enemies even if they aren't currently crewed.

How they should work:

They prioritize targets acording to what they are best against to what they are worst against first, and distance to target second. So an anti tank turret will always prioritize ground vehicles if there are any, an anti air turret will always prioritize air vehicles if there are any and so on. It will always shoot at the closest target.

Target priority:
Anti tank: Ground vehicles > Infantry > Aircraft
Anti Infantry: Infantry > Aircraft > Ground Vehicles
Anti Air: Aircraft > Infantry > Ground Vehicles

When the turret is unmanned it isn't very smart. It will always follow this pattern, no matter if that means its getting its ass kicked. (For example, a flash riding around in circles dodging its shots while an MBT is wrecking the turret, the turret will continue to fire on the Flash as long as its closer)

The turret will also have no predictive AI, it will fire exactly where its target is at the time, meaning that it will have a very hard time hitting moving targets that are not coming straight at the turret.

An AI controlled turret fires in a pattern that doesn't let the turret overheat, so it has a steady output of damage, firing in short bursts, but it doesn't ever overheat its weapon to spike its damage output momentarily.

A hacked turret can be piloted by an enemy player, but it does not become AI controlled by the opposing faction.

Turrets will never target cloaked units.

A player in a turret should make the turret more threatening by giving it predictive targeting and intelligence.

Why I think this would improve the game:

Basically defensive perimeters around bases are pretty meaningless right now because they don't serve as a real force multiplier. Your average amp station has somewhere around 20-30 turrets in it, so there really is no way to effectively man all of them. That many players would be much better off simply roaming in the base, protecting the generators. If the defense perimeter was automated there would be a real incentive to actually defend the turrets and keep them up and running. Especially an extensive grid of anti air turrets would provide significant protection to a base until it is destroyed by making it impossible for aircraft to hover overhead. (but they can still fly over due to the automatic targeting being dumb)

Turret farming is currently really lucrative. Just yesterday I made 100 certs in just around 55 minutes by getting into a Liberator by myself on Amerish and wrecking every single enemy turret I could find, and then repairing all of my own factions turrets because none of them were alive due to other people having the same idea. Didn't actually fight a single person doing that. If those turrets would shoot back it wouldn't be anywhere near as easy to take them down.

It would give people time to organize a defense of a base, since taking out the turret grid would take some time. A group of a few people could easily destroy the turret grid by dismantling it carefully, having some units draw the fire while others take out the turrets, or some skillful maneuvering. However, destroying the whole thing and opening a base up for attack would take some time, the turrets are still deadly, and going in reckless would get you killed pretty quickly. Especially stuff like running a single ESF into a base, then blowing up the SCU won't be all that easy if there are a few turrets to defend.

This would also make taking an empty base more entertaining. Yea, shooting at robotic turrets isn't as fun as shooting at players, but it's more fun than shooting at nothing. And as per the point of "Turret farming is lucrative" you'll be shooting all the turrets anyways while the base flips if you are a frugal XP farmer, so why not let them shoot back for a bit of entertainment.

[Baneblade]

yess

[Timealude]

go ahead, just make it so hacked turrets can attack enemies in their own base.

[MaxDamage]

I disagree with AV/AA/AI turrets attacking targets outside of their designated role.

I would like them to be as close to Planetside 1's implementation as possible, meaning, slow firing, and not a serious threat to anything but air and shtuff.

Also anti infantry turrets being automated sounds horrific.

I would prefer engineer deployable weaker turrets from PS1.

[Gatekeeper]

Sounds good to me, although I'd disagree a bit with the details.

Give the turrets some (limited) predictive fire ability so they can hit slow-moving targets, but make them only attack the target they're designed for - i.e. AA only attacks air, AV only attacks vehicles, AI only attacks infantry.

And like PS1, make the turrets fire slower than they would when manned, not just avoiding overheating but actively firing at about half to two-thirds of their optimal rate. The aim would be for them to do steady damage to enemies nearby, but give plenty of time for enemies to kill them or retreat, rather than them being deadly.

Edit: also this ability should really be a base benefit of some kind.

[Rothnang]

If the turrets only attack their designated target they would have to redesign every base to have anti infantry turrets in the outer picket, or the entire automation is just pointless if you can simply walk up with infantry and take out all the turrets without any of them shooting back.

[Figment]

This sounds like an idea that would work out horrendously.


PS1 base turrets were all purpose machine guns and would mostly tickle. It would also only activate against larger vehicles (it did not engage buggies, mosquitos and ATVs). And when it did so, the rate of fire was incredibly slow. The only times they'd attack smaller units (again with low rof), would be when that smaller unit would engage that turret.

Simply activating turrets against any unit by default would be an utterly stupid idea, since the AV turrets can instakill infantry and have quite a lot of splash, the AI turrets don't harm anything but infantry, but they do so incredibly well.


If we had similar turrets to PS1, it'd be a lot easier to implement. But these are simply too powerful to just engage any unit.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by Rothnang

If the turrets only attack their designated target they would have to redesign every base to have anti infantry turrets in the outer picket, or the entire automation is just pointless if you can simply walk up with infantry and take out all the turrets without any of them shooting back.

As Figment points out, AV turrets are too strong vs infantry to have them auto-firing at them. However, if the turrets only auto-attack their primary targets, but return fire against anything that damages them - that would work out ok IMO.

Might still need some tweaking in terms of targeting AI, rate of fire, and maybe even reduced damage/splash when auto-firing/returning fire - but I think it's workable, and could make for some pretty fun battles.

[Ghoest9]

Im not sure we need this at all.

But auto turrets should NEVER target infantry.




I think a much better plan would be that turrets return fire - and nothing else.

[psijaka]

Like the idea of auto firing turrets, but they MUST only attack their specific target; AV much too strong against infantry otherwise; and they should have a slower fire rate than when manned.

Can't see this being high priority right now though; something for the future, perhaps.

[Carbon Copied]

I think the resource cost on processing all that info on a potential 20-30 turrets for just one amp station let alone other outposts etc. would cause problems map wide.

Maybe a certification for Infiltrators to "upload a drone program" to 1 or 2 turrets at any one time (cert line has 2 stages) with each base being limited per hex cluster (scaling to how many turrets are available in that cluster) of max droned turrets (so all turrets cannot be activated at once by a platoon of infiltrators).
When droned the turret stays in this EvP mode for x amount of time and cannot be crewed (there will be plenty of other turrets to use or repair without the infiltrators interfering with the PvP crewed turrets), this stops the troll infiltrator hopping in and resetting the drone and putting his own drone upload on; it also will mean the infiltrator has to choose his upload time carefully and which turret he's activating where.

Automated turrets are a good idea but I think they should somehow involve or require a degree of player interaction as if they're going to fire at a target anyway theres no huge incentive for me care any more or less than I did before. Also the most obvious bonus is it gives a new defensive role for infiltrators as a class in their own right.

(EvP = Environment v Person)

[Rothnang]

The turrets aren't exactly going to last long without repairs and dehacking, so I don't really see them as not requiring player interaction. It's just not reasonable to need a gunner for every single turret.

If the turrets don't shoot infantry the whole idea is pointless. Yes, turrets kill infantry quickly, but since Infantry doesn't have to actually care when it takes losses thanks to Sundy magic I'm having a hard time seeing that as a problem.

If you want to play Rambo ask the devs for an infantry class that costs 300 resources and can't be revived.

[Ghoest9]

Originally Posted by Rothnang

The turrets aren't exactly going to last long without repairs and dehacking, so I don't really see them as not requiring player interaction. It's just not reasonable to need a gunner for every single turret.

If the turrets don't shoot infantry the whole idea is pointless. Yes, turrets kill infantry quickly, but since Infantry doesn't have to actually care when it takes losses thanks to Sundy magic I'm having a hard time seeing that as a problem.

If you want to play Rambo ask the devs for an infantry class that costs 300 resources and can't be revived.

You arent really defending your position - your just saying - I dont care if it pwns infantry.


And basically you are making the case for why the devs will never do what you want.

[snafus]

This is a horrible idea. Any kind of A.I. has an unfair advantage of always knowing you are there. Though they can manipulate it to make it a fair fight more or less the very idea that the player isn't responsible for base defense bothers me greatly. And with the new hex system coming in we will have better siege battles and hopefully less ghost hacks by the unscrupulous types.

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by snafus

This is a horrible idea. Any kind of A.I. has an unfair advantage of always knowing you are there.

The turrets in PS1 didn't attack you unless you were close or fired on them. If you tried to sit behind a rock and fire a rocket launcher they would pinpoint and try to kill you after you hit them then forget about you after a few minutes. Worked very well as you couldn't farm the turrets trivially like now.

I just wish it wasn't so easy to farm them with AV mana turrets and vehicles.