Discussion: What do smaller squads want in order to have more fun AND make an impact?

[ItZMuRdA]

Hi guys,

Was having a discussion of my own earlier today and got thinking about what ideas we could brainstorm and come up with regarding the topic of small squad/outfit play and what could be done to both improve enjoyment for those of us who choose to play in smaller groups, while also allowing smaller ops to feel like they can make a meaningful impact in the game. Some of the greatest times I've had in PS2 thus far is spawning into an "Enemy Platoon" outpost with my squad of 6 guys and being able to successfully take it back nearly entirely by ourselves. We saw a lot of that from small "elite" outfits in PS1, so if that's still your style of play in PS2, what would you like to see added in the future to better support that?

I'd like to structure this as an open-ended discussion and hopefully get a lot of good feedback and suggestions. I know larger outfits running massive operations gets a lot of attention in PS2, but there are a lot of us, especially PS1 vets, that still prefer to run around in smaller squads, even two squads at times, and when we're actually able to make a significant impact it really feels great. I think keeping the game fun, compelling, and meaningful for players who choose to play in groups of all sizes will really do us all a great favor in keeping PlanetSide 2 thriving for many years to come.

That being said, what ideas do you have for improving the enjoyment and meaningful impact of you and your squadmates' actions ingame? New objectives? More compelling resource gameplay? Other features? What do you want to see in PlanetSide 2 that would benefit your small squad?

Thanks for taking the time to read this, and double thanks in advance for your contributions to the thread!

[NewSith]

Sorry for saying it in such way, but I want zerg to stop being given opportunities to do everything. In other words to make squad (or small team, that's more precise) play interesting, the zerg should not be allowed to play the game properly.

I can expand on that if you want.

[Rolfski]

Originally Posted by NewSith

In other words to make squad (or small team, that's more precise) play interesting, the zerg should not be allowed to play the game properly.

The promise of this game is scale, better get used to it. Nerfing this game down to a small tactical shooter only is exactly the opposite what is needed to improve overall game play. If I want to play small tactical only, I play BF3, not this game.

There's nothing wrong with zergs (it's what makes this game epic) but the game needs to provide better game play for small squads as well.

A cloakable squad-only Sundy is a good solution that will help smaller squads in particular imo. I don't see it as overpowered as Sunderers are very vulnerable anyway atm and when used by big outfits it becomes easy to track its location.

Deployable defenses like automatic turrets and the space equivalent of sandbags should also help smaller squads to overcome numerical superiority. These need to be balanced out of course to prevent over-spamming: Maybe some Sunderer-like mechanic that prevent more than 12 of them deployed at the same location and make them auto-deconstruct when you leave the area.

And there are of course secondary objectives that should help small squad play. Not sure in which form but PS1 apparently had a few good examples. My biggest concern with secondary objectives though is that they can potentially make the game overly complex and scare away too many new players so they need to figure out a way to make them easy to understand.

Originally Posted by KodanBlack

P0intman's Galaxy poster is awesome. GOOD STUFF!

Here's the original post, feel free to give it a like: https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...galaxy.126461/

[NewSith]

Originally Posted by Rolfski

The promise of this game is scale, better get used to it. Nerfing this game down to a small tactical shooter only is exactly the opposite what is needed to improve overall game play. If I want to play small tactical only, I play BF3, not this game.

There's nothing wrong with zergs (it's what makes this game epic) but the game needs to provide better game play for small squads as well.

When I say zerg I mean players that play just to play, staying on a Biolab farm, when friendly hexes around the map are dropping like flies.

When I say zerg, I mean outfits, that participate in zerg, having 64+ people online, doing nothing to contribute to actual continent capture, while monopolizing the command chat.

When I say zerg, I mean outfits that come en masse on an unpopulated hex. The funny thing is, in this case it is mostly not their fault.

A cloakable squad-only Sundy is a good solution that will help smaller squads in particular imo. I don't see it as overpowered as Sunderers are very vulnerable anyway atm and when used by big outfits it becomes easy to track its location.

Cloaked fulltime AMS is still balanced, since it cannot use its guns (even if it can, a cloak would obviously work both ways, and the shooter wouldn't see what he's shooting at), nor can it have any extra layer of armor (be it mine guard or blockade armor) on it. I don't see any reason to lock it into squad-only.

Deployable defenses like automatic turrets and the space equivalent of sandbags should also help smaller squads to overcome numerical superiority.

They won't. Don't forget the principle of "if we have it, they have it too".

And there are of course secondary objectives that should help small squad play. Not sure in which form but PS1 apparently had a few good examples.

You'll be surprised but PS1 had LESS small objectives. The secret was in their design and functionality, not in their numbers.


Bottomline is, PlanetSide 2 doesn't make me want to play the game when my outfitmates are offline. This makes me quit the game until outfit mates are on. See the contraditction and what it results with?

[Rolfski]

Originally Posted by NewSith

Cloaked fulltime AMS is still balanced, since it cannot use its guns (even if it can, a cloak would obviously work both ways, and the shooter wouldn't see what he's shooting at), nor can it have any extra layer of armor (be it mine guard or blockade armor) on it. I don't see any reason to lock it into squad-only.

Not sure if it is balanced then but as a squad doing some "secret special ops" you would probably at least have the option to set it to squad-spawn only. A full greenie zerg spawning at your cloaked AMS is pretty much a dead give-away of the location and the end of your "secret ops".

Originally Posted by NewSith

They won't. Don't forget the principle of "if we have it, they have it too".

Deployable defences make less sense if you are the attacker so it should help smaller squads defending against bigger numbers, especially if you add mechanics that prevent others from deploying them in the same area as I suggested.

[ringring]

In terms of resecures the issues are:
a) where are the enemy,
b) how long is there remaining on the hack,
c) how long will it take to get there and attempt a resecure.

I think a) and b) are mostly taken care of. We have information from the map and we have tools such as radar on scout vehicles (mossie and flash).

In PS1 terms we also had the comms channel that is cr5 chat and /sitrep. I presume something on improving comms is already under discussion at SOE.

One thing that gets me though is the spawning mechanism. By this I mean often we decide to go for resecures by spawning in to the outpost in question (time is often critical) and where you can spawn from/to seems inconsistent.

My wish would be either that the spawning is consistent or (perhaps it already is) that whatever the spawning rules are they are understood. (PS1 rules were dead easy).

[ItZMuRdA]

Originally Posted by ringring

One thing that gets me though is the spawning mechanism. By this I mean often we decide to go for resecures by spawning in to the outpost in question (time is often critical) and where you can spawn from/to seems inconsistent.

My wish would be either that the spawning is consistent or (perhaps it already is) that whatever the spawning rules are they are understood. (PS1 rules were dead easy).

That's definitely a good point and something we've noticed a lot. So often do I find myself wishing I could spawn at what is a perfectly viable base to defend, but unable to do so. And with cap timers getting even shorter the ability to spawn near and move there with vehicles is usually not an option.

I would like to see improved spawn AI or at least the ability to spawn more places that really need reinforcements. I realize its a delicate balance not allowing people to just zip around a map entirely via deployment, but something certainly worth looking at.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Stardouser]

There are not nearly enough destructible/repairable meaningful assets in the game...whether that's turrets, generators, scus, we need more of each of those, and more new ones. This kind of thing is something a single squad can focus on - taking them out/repairing/etc.

Especially turrets, and honestly at major bases we need AV turrets with 360 degree spin capability. With instant action and other forms of drop podding, and other ways of entering bases that do not constitute a traditional assault from the outside to inside, having turrets point outward only means they aren't useful 80% of the fight. The fact that I see so many turrets at large base fights sitting both unused and undestroyed is proof of that.

[AThreatToYou]

The biggest issue I can see is that there is no more hot-dropping unless you are LA, which essentially means there is no more at least partially stealthy way to enter a base. I've heard about this thing called "ejection seat"...
There is a serious issue in PS2 and that's not every HA grunt can pack medkit and repair tool. Now, it would be feasible for everyone to head in as medics, but where's the ammo? In PS1, you could loot weapons and ammunition from dead enemies. In PS2, there is no such thing. This severely weakens the effectiveness of a small-scale attack because, eventually, the attackers will run out of ammo regardless of how many ammo-filled dead bodies you throw at them.

It's also an issue for doing MAX attacks because they removed the MAX Crash. In short I think we need the MAX Crash back.... that'll give something small outfits to do for sure.
NC MAX shield + run mode might allow it. If you add inventory looting, MAX units should have a way to scavenge some sort of weapon. I mean, they have hands, why can't they use a pistol?

MAX is an aux. problem. We should be able to loot ammo.

Another issue (that PS1 had for ages) is the lack of an unarmed stealth aircraft. In the later years of PS1, we were introduced to this thing called the Phantasm. Bring the Phantasm back! Small outfits would love it. If not that, allow us to certify into a way to disarm our ESF in exchange for being able to cloak them for 5+ minutes if not permanently.

[Rumblepit]

lattice will do.

it will create alot of options for smaller squads and outfits.when the big fights start on Wednesday your gonna see small squads and outfits find their place. bigger and longer fights will promote spec ops, taking out AA, dropping gens,going for sundys,dropping on satellite bases,fast response , i could go on and on. this will open many doors...
i know someone will say you can do all this stuff now, this is true, but people dont really defend bases. with the lattice, they wont have a choice.

[waldizzo]

Give all bases a meaningful benefit that hurts to lose. Put a couple of generators in defensible locations at the bases. If the gens are blown, the base benefit is gone.

Smaller groups will target these for destruction. In turn, smaller groups will respond.

The base benefits need to be reviewed for this to work though. As they are now, no one will care if they lose a bioloab or amp station benefit.

[VengeanceD]

"Quality is Quantity"

[Maidere]

Originally Posted by waldizzo

Give all bases a meaningful benefit that hurts to lose. Put a couple of generators in defensible locations at the bases. If the gens are blown, the base benefit is gone.

Smaller groups will target these for destruction. In turn, smaller groups will respond.

The base benefits need to be reviewed for this to work though. As they are now, no one will care if they lose a bioloab or amp station benefit.

This.

[WSNeo]

Originally Posted by waldizzo

Give all bases a meaningful benefit that hurts to lose. Put a couple of generators in defensible locations at the bases. If the gens are blown, the base benefit is gone.

Smaller groups will target these for destruction. In turn, smaller groups will respond.

The base benefits need to be reviewed for this to work though. As they are now, no one will care if they lose a bioloab or amp station benefit.

This.

[Qwan]

Originally Posted by waldizzo

Give all bases a meaningful benefit that hurts to lose. Put a couple of generators in defensible locations at the bases. If the gens are blown, the base benefit is gone.

Smaller groups will target these for destruction. In turn, smaller groups will respond.

The base benefits need to be reviewed for this to work though. As they are now, no one will care if they lose a bioloab or amp station benefit.

This would be a nice.
Also I would like to say bringing back the rek, for those that dont know it was a device used for hacking in PS1 any class could get it (exept maxes of course) if you spent the certs, In PS2 the only hacker is the infiltrator class. I think they should make it so that any class can hack as long as you spend the certs for the skill or (rek), this will free up a slots, when you want to make a squad with medics, engi's and maxes. Sometimes when assaulting a base you forget to bring a cloaker and then your stuck without a hacker to hack turrets and terminals. I think they should make the Rek common pool if you spend the certs.
@Scourge Making it so that all players can bring back other players, maybe not as fast and effective as the medic class but if a heavy assualt can bend over and hit you with a stem pack and get your ass back (maybe with half health or quarter health)to the fight this would make smaller squads more effective, in small unit operations, because sometimes the medic isnt in the same room.