New policy on refunds needed

[War Barney]

Well I just heard they are changing C4 to be near worthless and apparently I've got no chance of a refund on those 700 certs wasted (As why the hell would I use C4 again when its a utter crap version of tank mines).

This got me thinking.. why is it legal for them to change something after you buy it and refuse you a refund? for certs you could say its cos its not real money you spent (though its still scummy) but for things you bought for SC you should always be allowed to request a refund upon a balance change.

Think of it like this, you don't buy a car, then a week later they call it in saying its to comfortable so they are going to make it worse and slow it down as well and refuse to let you return it. If you provide a service or product it should remain the same as when you bought it (apart from if you damage it or wear) or if it is forced into being changed you should be allowed a refund. It just seems refusing a refund is not just immoral its illegal as well.

[bpostal]

It's the EULA you 'signed' when you joined the game. Don't feel bad, I didn't really read it either. That's the legal reason.
For certs it's a bit different. From what I remember their reasoning for a lack of recert option (that Planetside had) is that you will always continue to earn certs. You won't ever be capped out and thus it's not a problem.
Try to cert/buy items that play to your playstyle instead of what looks good/OP.

[War Barney]

If they added a line saying *we hold the right to take every penny you have and claim all future income you ever have* would that be legal though? In what other industry can people change something you paid real money for so its worse than when you bought it and deny you a refund?

Hell this even encourages horrific business practises, if you wanted to farm players you could make certain gear really OP, then when everybody has bought it nerf it so its worthless and boost something else to be OP, when everybody has bought that nerf it to worthlessness, rinse and repeat. The law needs to catch up with gaming really, its letting these companies get away with robbery basically.

Hell think about it how many games have you played where something is OP then nerfed to be useless only to have something else end up OP as hell... they could already be using this plan to farm players for money while the law doesn't bother to stop them.

[GS Ourous]

Originally Posted by War Barney

If they added a line saying *we hold the right to take every penny you have and claim all future income you ever have* would that be legal though? In what other industry can people change something you paid real money for so its worse than when you bought it and deny you a refund?

All you buy is the station cash. After you successfully recieve the station cash, it's your problem.

[typhaon]

Originally Posted by War Barney

If they added a line saying *we hold the right to take every penny you have and claim all future income you ever have* would that be legal though? In what other industry can people change something you paid real money for so its worse than when you bought it and deny you a refund?

Hell this even encourages horrific business practises, if you wanted to farm players you could make certain gear really OP, then when everybody has bought it nerf it so its worthless and boost something else to be OP, when everybody has bought that nerf it to worthlessness, rinse and repeat. The law needs to catch up with gaming really, its letting these companies get away with robbery basically.

Hell think about it how many games have you played where something is OP then nerfed to be useless only to have something else end up OP as hell... they could already be using this plan to farm players for money while the law doesn't bother to stop them.

I'm pretty sure that's what SOE has been doing (perhaps unintentionally) for the past 6 months... have you not been paying attention?

[Timealude]

Originally Posted by typhaon

I'm pretty sure that's what SOE has been doing (perhaps unintentionally) for the past 6 months... have you not been paying attention?

think they have been more or less balancing things, they cant help it if they put something into the game and we the players find a way to abuse it.

[bpostal]

Sure, if you agreed to it. That's the fucked up part of the legal system, especially when you're dealing with international legal systems. An example of a system where people can change something that you've paid for would be the RIAA and the music industry or the e-book 'scene'. Those fuckers will straight up remove shit off of your hard drive if they feel like it. Remember when Sony was selling CDs that included a rootkit that would auto-install when you put the CD into your computer?

If you wanted to farm players, cert into ScatMAX and stay in a biolab at all times. Really you have to realize that balance is always ongoing. It will never end and if SOE feels that something is OP or being abused then it's their job to bring it in line with their expectations. This is especially true in an MMO.
Shit is always going to be nerfed and buffed. You're entitled to your opinion and are welcome to share that opinion but at the end of the day there's not too much that we the players can do about it, other than making our opinion known.

[ChipMHazard]

I wouldn't go around claiming that SOE is conducting their business in an illegal manner without the required legal knowledge to make such a claim. Afaik, there's nothing illegal about anything relating to this. You're getting what you payed for, even if it's not what you want.
I get that mixing the usual balancing that goes into multiplayer games with the monetization that goes into the F2P might upset some.
You're free to try and get a cert refund from SOE but that's a matter between you and their support. Not us.

The only constructive thing you can do is provide some constructive feedback in order to get the C4 buffed to the level that you want.

Edit: In order not to derail this thread any further.
I don't know when they started introducing the license agreement that we see today, nor when it became common place. But my old Baldur's Gate manual actually does contain a software license agreement 5 lines long
So I might have had practical ownership, in the sense that what was Interplay going to do about it? Come to my house and take my copy? But I never had legal owndership. (I know you were referring to the practical ownership, Dragon.)

[Baneblade]

You 'rent' PlanetSide 2... you don't own it.

[ChipMHazard]

That is also true. You do not own any video game that you purchase.

[bpostal]

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

That is also true. You do not own any video game that you purchase.

I blame steam for this. Steam and the trend for downloadable content.

[Dragonskin]

Originally Posted by bpostal

I blame steam for this. Steam and the trend for downloadable content.

You have ALWAYS rented MMO games... anything that requires developer servers to run... you rent the privilage to use that part of the product.

EA wouldn't refund your Battlefield 2 purchase if they shut down the multiplayer servers....

Point fingers all you want, but none of this is new. The only time you ever owned a game was when you had the physical disc AND it didn't require online services to operate.

[wasdie]

Originally Posted by Dragonskin

You have ALWAYS rented MMO games... anything that requires developer servers to run... you rent the privilage to use that part of the product.

EA wouldn't refund your Battlefield 2 purchase if they shut down the multiplayer servers....

Point fingers all you want, but none of this is new. The only time you ever owned a game was when you had the physical disc AND it didn't require online services to operate.

Actually you should check the EULA of pretty much every piece of software out there. You don't own much, if any, of it.

[Dragonskin]

Originally Posted by wasdie

Actually you should check the EULA of pretty much every piece of software out there. You don't own much, if any, of it.

True, but if you really want to go that far then what do you actually ever own? If you are still paying mortgage or your car note then you don't technically own those. Then even the stuff you think you actually own... try not paying the IRS income tax and then explain to them that you own the property they are taking from you haha. Only 2 guarantees in life... death and taxes after all.

Anyway... back to the original point of the thread. It sucks that they change items that you buy and trust me I have bought plenty of crap I wish I didn't with SC... but SOE didn't make me buy it and I could have unlocked it with certs. I chose to give SOE my money... still regret some of the items, but trust me I am a lot more careful about what I buy now.. if I can get it with certs then I do for the most part now.

[EVILPIG]

700 certs. That's like a day.