Auraxium and its issues

basti · 2012-10-14, 03:48 PM

With the last big patch, Auraxium was removed from bases, and is now awarded for Gaining XP.

This is a temporary thing, because SOE is right now working on completely removing Auraxium, and putting weapon unlocks on the Cert tree.

And this is a bad idea.
Why: Regardless of Weapon unlocks being on the Cert tree or via Auraxium, with the current system, you unlock stuff by getting XP, and you get XP by fighting. While this sounds like a good idea to remove AFK folks at warpgates, and fix the whole Esamir situation (one empire dominating it forever to gain all the Auraxium), it introduces a much more critical issue: There is no more reason to fight.

Right now, on the beta servers, there are people everywhere trying to find a target that makes sense to attack. But there isn’t any. Bases don’t reward you with anything special you need. Getting more territory in general also has no use, as you quickly reach the Cap of the resource count, and once you have enough income, its almost impossible to not have enough resources for whatever you want to do.
I'm pretty sure a lot of you noticed that as well.

I don’t know what the best idea is to fix the Auraxium problems we had. I have a few ideas myself, but I have no idea if they are the best possible solution, or if they just introduce new problems.
But I know one thing for sure: Right now, I have no reason to log in. There is no reason to fight, other than gaining XP.
Right now, Planetside 2 wouldn’t hold my attention for more than a month after release. And im saying that as a diehard Planetside fan, who played PS1 for the first time in 2004, and went crazy when SOE announced Planetside 2.

We need to go back to the old system, and fix its problems, rather than completly throwing it over board.

If you think like me, make your voice heard. Otherwise, we end up stuck with a system that removes the soul out of Planetside 2.

http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/i...o-shine.31970/

Crator · 2012-10-14, 03:55 PM

Well, not sure I have an opinion on this yet really. They just started doing the aux gain on experience thing. And the resource gain rate is kind of slow in it's current state. Implants needed perhaps? But I do agree we need some sort of incentive to attack locations as well.

J Baley · 2012-10-14, 04:31 PM

double post...

J Baley · 2012-10-14, 04:32 PM

Yes, I don't know about removing it. Even though everything is so messed at the moment, it's a bit ridiculous to just trash it all and not fix it instead. Though, I'm so confused with all that's changed lately, I couldn't begin to guess how they would do that. Every patch makes me feel that we are back to square one.

Aaron · 2012-10-14, 04:42 PM

Gaining Auraxium as a global dividend seems like the simplest solution right now. However, if they remove Auraxium, they really have to try hard to find a reason for bases.

ringring · 2012-10-14, 04:55 PM

Personally I'd not go so far as to say ps2 had found it's soul yet (or previously).

We don't really have a reason to fight, that's true, but I would identify resources as the issue. Rather I'd say it was things like continent capture and home continents and the fear of being zero based.

Auraxium, which translates into unlocks or xp which translates into unlocks - I don't get the difference.

Granted the devs should give more rewards for capturing a major base ahead of a minor one. But ther's no reason why that can't be done.

bullet · 2012-10-14, 04:50 PM

How about making bases meaningful again? I'll just take my post from the official forums about how bases were meaningful in PS1.

I would have to say the main benefits of bases in PS1 were the Command EXP you got from capturing, the ability to pull vehicles, and their specific benefits they gave. Below is the list of benefits.

-Cutting out the info on bases since I'm assuming most people here know
the base benefits-

I know they're working on getting these in, but I'm listing the benefits of having a PS1 base /flameshield. With certain bases on your side, you had a pretty good advantage over your opponents. Dropship center benefits were always my favorite along with the interfarm, I mean Interlink Facility benefits.

Bases also became the main and only source of your vehicles, excluding Sanctuary which was unfeasible for a sustained battle. They were required to push the next target unlike now where towers in PS2 can serve this purpose. If you began to lose a base, you busted your *** to get back to that base otherwise you lost your foothold on that entire area. We can circumvent all bases through the hex system, we have no need for bases other than the Auraxium they give at this point.

As for Command EXP, this was what leveled up your Command Rank for the ones leading Squads/Platoons and gave you special benefits, which became less special as time progressed. The leaders of outfits, squads/platoons relied on capping bases so they could have a better chance at leading everyone to victory. This is again removed in PS2. You can just be a killwhore to get your EXP --> Certs --> Command Rank, which is what Command Rank boiled down to in the end with PS1. Killwhores used the Orbital Strike to buffer their K/D which is what will most likely happen again.

Khrispy · 2012-10-14, 06:07 PM

It's not that we don't have a reason to fight - let's be honest, we're going to fight each other no matter what - but last night during Squad Ops we realized that there is no real incentive to anything EXCEPT fight, because it's the only thing that gives XP.
It didn't matter which base we fought at, because they were all strategically meaningless - territories were valuable only because there might be fighting there.
As wrong as it felt to us, we just mounted up and left for the next base as soon as it was apparent that the enemy had given up and stopped spawning... there was no reason to wait for the base to flip or even to stay behind to defend because we weren't getting any points for it. Even worse, it was inherently unclear how we were helping our faction by doing any of it.

Whiteagle · 2012-10-16, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Khrispy

It's not that we don't have a reason to fight - let's be honest, we're going to fight each other no matter what - but last night during Squad Ops we realized that there is no real incentive to anything EXCEPT fight, because it's the only thing that gives XP.
It didn't matter which base we fought at, because they were all strategically meaningless - territories were valuable only because there might be fighting there.
As wrong as it felt to us, we just mounted up and left for the next base as soon as it was apparent that the enemy had given up and stopped spawning... there was no reason to wait for the base to flip or even to stay behind to defend because we weren't getting any points for it. Even worse, it was inherently unclear how we were helping our faction by doing any of it.

Hitting the nail on the head right here man.
The only thing really rewarding right now is offensive actions, people don't have any incentive to defend and the current "static foothold" map layout stagnates Faction interaction.

Long ago I forsaw the defense problem and came up with a solution, but I'm still worried...

Originally Posted by Shenyen

But with switching to exp/certs only, I fear that they are creating the basis for a pay2win-model, where a new player could throw a bucket of money at the game and use final level skills from day one.

Indeed, I've had the same fears myself...
Auraxium was clearly suppose to be a Currency earned through in-game play time, the thing that Station Cash could easily be bought to substitute for while Experience and Certifications would be the true measure of Character Advancement.

The original issue was that it was distributed as a Resource instead of a payment for how well your Character's Faction was doing, making the actual Resources insignificant in comparison.

Making it something gained through Character Advancement isn't going to solve anything and probably just create more problems for the Freemium income model.

I've been throwing around the idea of putting back in Major Facilities generating Auraxium, but tying their production to your Faction's income of a specific Resource.
That way, Factions have an incentive to capture, hold, or defend Auraxium Facilities AND Resource-producing Outpost.

Originally Posted by SpottyGekko

I'm getting the feeling that the dev team have lost their way a little. They might actually be starting to panic a bit. Launch day looms large in the not too distant future.

Yeah, I've been getting this feeling as well...
The current setup leads me to believe the only selling point of Planetside 2 at launch will be "Team Deathmatch over three huge maps," which isn't very impressive and will probably be the death knell for SOE...

I mean, look at this diagram I whipped up:

Honestly, if they can only launch with three maps by the end of the year deadline, I'd sincerely urge the Dev team to beg for a delay until they can whip up a fourth Continent and Sanctuaries.

Seriously, if you need us to whip up enough support to push back the deadline so that you can deliver us a truly great MMOFPS, we WILL mobilize!

Originally Posted by SpottyGekko

So they are simplifying the "complex" resource system to make it more "intuitive". After a move like that, what hope could there be now for them to risk implementing anything actually remotely resembling complex gameplay ?

Yeah, not really sure why dumbing down the Resource system was a better idea than making the User Interface more informative and intuitive...

I mean, was that REALLY a complaint?
Did anyone see any threads complaining that the Resource system was "too complex?"
What was the logic behind such a change?!

Originally Posted by SpottyGekko

I have great sympathy for the dev team actually. They've been handed a very difficult brief. The game has to launch as F2P and make a consistent profit to earn back the development cost. There is no upfront cash flow boost from initial box sales, and the target audience is highly critical of anything that they perceive as "forcing" them to spend money. I'd not be surprised if Higby develops ulcers or a drug habit in the coming months...

Yeah, and the saddest thing is I can actually see this game being a HUGE SUCCESS, but I'm afraid that such a short developmental deadline is just going to cripple it!
Again Devs, if you are reading this and you think you need more time, TELL US!!!
This concept has HUGE gameplay and profit potential, enough to rival the likes of Dungeons and Dragons Online and become Sony Online Entertainments Crown Jewel, so I'd hate to see it fail because you were force to rush it out too early.

Originally Posted by TerminatorUK

- Make vehicle purchases either free or at a significantly discounted rate when bought at the warp gate (to give losing teams / players with no resources a fighting chance to use vehicles and push out)

This is the only one of these that would actually be helpful, and only then I'd make a slight discount.
It encourages ad-havoc Vehicle Formations to develop at a Faction Sanctuary, helps put butts in gunner and passenger seats, while compensating someone for the time needed to get a Vehicle back into a fight.

Shenyen · 2012-10-14, 07:12 PM

So, what are they going to sell in the shop after they removed Auraxium and make weapons available via certs?

Using Auraxium has the benefit, that it is a separate resource, than can be used to buy weapons and is rewarded for fighting (after some anti-AFK measures are introduced) (because of you don't fight, you won't be able to conquer or defend auraxium-bases) - but that is NOT the same as normal exp/certs.

They can sell everything in the shop for auraxium, because players will aquire this resource over time and want to buy stuff (and if they can't wait, they'll spend SC).

But what will they do when there is no more auraxium and exp/certs are the only "currency" in game?

They will sell weapons that could also be aquired by spending normal exp/certs.

Oh - and when they have begun to sell stuff that you can buy/skill for certs - why stop?

You don't want to wait til you have aquired 480 cert points for the last update to your healing tool?

1800 Station Cash and it is yours!

I fear that removing Auraxium will lead to an item shop where everything can be aquired for money, not only the stuff they talked about.

The Tribes Ascend approach, where you buy basic items with exp or money, but increase that items power only with exp, something you can only earn by playing, is the way to go and imho a great counter to the pay2win-problem.

With auraxium, they choose the same approach.

But with switching to exp/certs only, I fear that they are creating the basis for a pay2win-model, where a new player could throw a bucket of money at the game and use final level skills from day one.

ringring · 2012-10-15, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by Shenyen

So, what are they going to sell in the shop after they removed Auraxium and make weapons available via certs?

.

erm, why not sell the same things? Except where it says X Station Cash or Y Auraxium it will say X Station Cash or Y Cert Points.

Fanglord · 2012-10-14, 07:20 PM

The reason I don't want weapons as certs is it forces you choose between new weapons and pre existing ones, just feels like i'd be wasting certs that could otherwise be spent on upgrading useful skills/attachments.

Also are they fixing auraxium gain atm? It feels like ive barely made any tonight and I logged off with about 80 kills + base goals ect

AnamNantom · 2012-10-14, 09:26 PM

I think it'll all be sorted out. Let's try to play with the Auraxium removed from next patch, see how that feels, then let the guys know via here, twitter, official forums, or reddit. They look at all of those places alot, I know.

TerminatorUK · 2012-10-16, 06:23 PM

My solution would be as follows:

- Remove Auraxium entirely
- Merge Weapon purchases into cert points
- Increase the rate of cert point gain considerably (currently it takes far to long to unlock even a simple scope)
- Significantly reduce resource income from territories (giving people the urge to fight for new territories)
- Make vehicle purchases either free or at a significantly discounted rate when bought at the warp gate (to give losing teams / players with no resources a fighting chance to use vehicles and push out)

Ghost Runner · 2012-10-14, 11:28 PM

Well this topic inspired this. I posted it on the beta forums as well enjoy

http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/i...gistics.32121/

What planet side 2 needs at the moment is logistics!! the are none as it currently is like almost every other FPS pick your gear and jump in.... while that is fun it doesn't seem to be what I saw when I looked at planet side from the outside what I saw was supply lines facility's that let your empire build tanks and other bases that let you get advanced addons for that tank exceterra....

Also ammo should be one of the resources, hold certain bases your empire gets like a 10% bonus to ammo capacity. Bases that allow your faction to produce special ammo's.Heat seeking rockets and the like.

Air bases should be in the game as well and really important to hold so that your empire can have aircraft.

The warp gate should be the only base that has all the terminals, and whats available at them terminals is based on what bases your empire holds on that continent.

Will add more if I think of anything else.
Just some thoughts after while of playing.

Please feel free to add to my Idea