As a Mag I will die to a Vanguard 4 out of 5 times in a 1v1...

[Vernei]

...to an experienced and highly certed Vanguard driver.

I am an experienced and highly certed Magrider pilot. I have experienced gunners. I have the most tricked-out Magrider possible. It doesn't matter. If I am in a true one on one combat scenario with a Vanguard, at least four out of five times the engagement will end with my tank blowing up. That doesn't include "losses" in which I lost the engagement but managed to escape without my tank being destroyed - in which case the odds are even more pathetic.

Why is this? It is because the Vanguard's Shield provides a full eight seconds of near invulnerability - with absolutely zero downside. While this shield is active, the Vanguard can continue to drive at full speed, turn at full speed, and engage with both primary and secondary weapons at full DPS.

Yes, it is possible to break the shield, as it absorbs a flat amount of damage, however, the amount of DPS a single Magrider puts out isn't enough to break the shield quickly - even if all the shots land, the Vanguard still received basically four seconds of invulnerability, all the while, it continues to pound away on you at full DPS.

It is also quite difficult to maneuver away from a Vanguard while the shield is active, as the Vanguard still has full mobility and can easily chase a fleeing Magrider behind any cover that it has attempted to utilize. Also, if the nose of the Magrider is pointed toward the nearest rock in a futile attempt to flee, the primary gun is not putting DPS on the target - making it even less likely for the shield to be broken before the full eight seconds. All the while, the Vanguard is firing away at you at full DPS.

It is precisely this scenario why Magriders are simply no match for Vanguards. At greater distances, Magrider survivability increases, but only because the Magrider is more likely to be able to take cover behind a rock and repair for a few seconds while the Vanguard closes the distance. Regardless, once that Vanguard is within 100m, the Magrider is toast the vast majority of the time in a one on one.

Here are a few solutions that I believe will bring Vanguards back into balance and at least give Magriders a fighting chance to survive in combat with them.

1) When the shield is engaged, the Vanguard keeps full mobility and speed, but is unable to fire any of its weapons while the shield is active. To compensate, reduce the cooldown timer from 45 seconds to 25 seconds.

2) When the shield is engaged, the Vanguard loses 25% speed, and is able to fire its secondary weapon, but unable to fire the main gun while the shield is active. To compensate, reduce the cooldown timer from 45 to 35 seconds.

3) When the shield is engaged, the Vanguard loses 75% speed, but is able to fire both primary and secondary weapons, thus sacrificing mobility for DPS. To compensate, reduce the cooldown timer from 45 to 35 seconds.

I believe any one of these solutions would go a long way to bringing balance back into MBT combat in Planetside2 . I welcome any constructive comments or suggestions.

Tank you for your time,
Vernei
Ghosts of the Revolution Phantom Guard Executive Officer - Mattherson

[blashyrk]

Originally Posted by Vernei

...to an experienced and highly certed Vanguard driver.

I am an experienced and highly certed Magrider pilot. I have experienced gunners. I have the most tricked-out Magrider possible. It doesn't matter. If I am in a true one on one combat scenario with a Vanguard, at least four out of five times the engagement will end with my tank blowing up. That doesn't include "losses" in which I lost the engagement but managed to escape without my tank being destroyed - in which case the odds are even more pathetic.

Why is this? It is because the Vanguard's Shield provides a full eight seconds of near invulnerability - with absolutely zero downside. While this shield is active, the Vanguard can continue to drive at full speed, turn at full speed, and engage with both primary and secondary weapons at full DPS.

Yes, it is possible to break the shield, as it absorbs a flat amount of damage, however, the amount of DPS a single Magrider puts out isn't enough to break the shield quickly - even if all the shots land, the Vanguard still received basically four seconds of invulnerability, all the while, it continues to pound away on you at full DPS.

It is also quite difficult to maneuver away from a Vanguard while the shield is active, as the Vanguard still has full mobility and can easily chase a fleeing Magrider behind any cover that it has attempted to utilize. Also, if the nose of the Magrider is pointed toward the nearest rock in a futile attempt to flee, the primary gun is not putting DPS on the target - making it even less likely for the shield to be broken before the full eight seconds. All the while, the Vanguard is firing away at you at full DPS.

It is precisely this scenario why Magriders are simply no match for Vanguards. At greater distances, Magrider survivability increases, but only because the Magrider is more likely to be able to take cover behind a rock and repair for a few seconds while the Vanguard closes the distance. Regardless, once that Vanguard is within 100m, the Magrider is toast the vast majority of the time in a one on one.

Here are a few solutions that I believe will bring Vanguards back into balance and at least give Magriders a fighting chance to survive in combat with them.

1) When the shield is engaged, the Vanguard keeps full mobility and speed, but is unable to fire any of its weapons while the shield is active. To compensate, reduce the cooldown timer from 45 seconds to 25 seconds.

2) When the shield is engaged, the Vanguard loses 25% speed, and is able to fire its secondary weapon, but unable to fire the main gun while the shield is active. To compensate, reduce the cooldown timer from 45 to 35 seconds.

3) When the shield is engaged, the Vanguard loses 75% speed, but is able to fire both primary and secondary weapons, thus sacrificing mobility for DPS. To compensate, reduce the cooldown timer from 45 to 35 seconds.

I believe any one of these solutions would go a long way to bringing balance back into MBT combat in Planetside2 . I welcome any constructive comments or suggestions.

Tank you for your time,
Vernei
Ghosts of the Revolution Phantom Guard Executive Officer - Mattherson

My brother and I drive a Magrider with Saron (both barely certed) he's usually the driver and I'm the gunner. We go on insane killstreaks (it's usually about 10 tanks, same number of sunderers, countless infantry and even a couple of ESFs) during a lifetime of a single Magrider.

I don't mean to brag, I just want to express that Magrider is highly capable (although definitely a bit hindered compared to other MBTs), but only if you
use it properly and ONLY if you have a gunner on a decent secondary cannon.

Magrider being weak as it is, you really need to pick fights only at a higher distance, where you can slowly but steadily pick at enemy armor from a distance while the driver strafes and evades enemy shells (evasion is impossible at short/medium distances even with strafe ability because the other MBTs' tank shells have extremely high velocity) and Saron is perfect for this, because it has no projectile drop.

Currently the only bright spots of the Magrider are the Saron secondary and the ability to use terrain to your advantage better than with other MBTs. That being said, its main gun is absolutely terrible.

[Baneblade]

Funny, because the Magrider is the exact thing I don't want to see on the battlefield. I'd rather charge a line of lockdown Prowlers.

[MrMak]

I like how you make 0 mention of the fact that a Magrider can use the magburer to easily get away or s\circle around to the vuneralbe side of any tank.

The Vanguard is slow and has poor accleration which also hinders it's hill climbing capabilatios. Im pretty sure you CAN get away or dodge.

You want the vanguard shield to have a downside? fine. Come up with one for the Magburner aswell.

[Ruffdog]

Thing is when it's 2 vehicles v 2 vehicles I bet the Maggie wins 5/5

[blashyrk]

Originally Posted by MrMak

I like how you make 0 mention of the fact that a Magrider can use the magburer to easily get away or s\circle around to the vuneralbe side of any tank.

The Vanguard is slow and has poor accleration which also hinders it's hill climbing capabilatios. Im pretty sure you CAN get away or dodge.

You want the vanguard shield to have a downside? fine. Come up with one for the Magburner aswell.

Perhaps so, but Prowlers and Vanguards have omnidirectional turrets which turn a lot faster than you can circle the enemy MBT with the Magburner, thus the advantage is basically nullified.

[MrMak]

Originally Posted by blashyrk

Perhaps so, but Prowlers and Vanguards have omnidirectional turrets which turn a lot faster than you can circle the enemy MBT with the Magburner, thus the advantage is basically nullified.

It would be if the armor was the same all around.

[PredatorFour]

Then make a dedicated av tank to take them on, av for both guns. I got an av loadout and its more of an equaliser against vannies.

[Qwan]

I rarely to never pull mags, so I really have no comment about the vehicle and its abilitys. But i will say this fixed gun in the front of the mag is its downfall, its a horrible attempt at making the vechicle all alien, and personnally I find it to be a joke. When I am forced to pull a mag, combat is horrible, I usually kill more friendly softies standing around, and bump into everything. I think the MBT on all factions are horribly designed, the gunner as the driver was just not the smartest way to go.

[Shamrock]

Originally Posted by MrMak

I like how you make 0 mention of the fact that a Magrider can use the magburer to easily get away or s\circle around to the vuneralbe side of any tank.

The Vanguard is slow and has poor accleration which also hinders it's hill climbing capabilatios. Im pretty sure you CAN get away or dodge.

You want the vanguard shield to have a downside? fine. Come up with one for the Magburner as well.

Running Magburner instead of smoke to break locks is a seriously bad idea (unless you enjoy dying in under a minute) in most armour fights, maybe less so against NC, but very few people swap out load-outs according to what faction they are facing.

Some people can still make the Magrider work fairly well, but I mostly see a lot of stock mags getting chewed up. Personally I swapped to using a lightning months ago.

[SternLX]

Originally Posted by MrMak

I like how you make 0 mention of the fact that a Magrider can use the magburer to easily get away or s\circle around to the vuneralbe side of any tank.

1) Using Magburner means you have to put your vulnerable soft and squishy ass end towards the enemy. Or the very least a side and portion of rear if choosing a diagonal escape vector.
2) A tracked vehicle can rotate it's main body to keep it's rear away from a Circle strafing Magrider.

You want the vanguard shield to have a downside? fine. Come up with one for the Magburner aswell.

Again, the downside to using Magburner is pointing your ass at the enemy to get away. I could see this as a valid argument if Magburner accelerated us in any direction chosen on the X plane.

The best solution I can think of and I have mentioned it during Beta(which fell on deaf ears)since we can't rotate the main cannon separate of the main body like the Tracked MBT's is to allow the Magrider to have the same top speed in reverse as our forward speed.

One of the main points by the OP is that Vanguards can turn and run at full speed while keeping their main cannon(or both weapons if 2 manning it) on the Enemy. Magrider can only hope to get behind some kind of cover quickly and then turn around to bring it's main to bear. I've been gunned down by fleeing Vannies with Shields up on more than a few occasions in the beginning. I learned my lesson so I don't bother chasing them any more.

[Maginnis]

Originally Posted by SternLX

1) Using Magburner means you have to put your vulnerable soft and squishy ass end towards the enemy. Or the very least a side and portion of rear if choosing a diagonal escape vector.
2) A tracked vehicle can rotate it's main body to keep it's rear away from a Circle strafing Magrider.


Again, the downside to using Magburner is pointing your ass at the enemy to get away. I could see this as a valid argument if Magburner accelerated us in any direction chosen on the X plane.

The best solution I can think of and I have mentioned it during Beta(which fell on deaf ears)since we can't rotate the main cannon separate of the main body like the Tracked MBT's is to allow the Magrider to have the same top speed in reverse as our forward speed.

One of the main points by the OP is that Vanguards can turn and run at full speed while keeping their main cannon(or both weapons if 2 manning it) on the Enemy. Magrider can only hope to get behind some kind of cover quickly and then turn around to bring it's main to bear. I've been gunned down by fleeing Vannies with Shields up on more than a few occasions in the beginning. I learned my lesson so I don't bother chasing them any more.

This isn't entirely fact.

1) A Van/Prowler can rotate to keep the rear away from a single enemy Magrider, true. The rotational speed necessary depends on the distance of the Magrider, however. The truth of this scenario is that success or failure of the Van to protect its flank will depend on:

a) Terrain/positioning - a Mag which attacks on uneven terrain may have an advantage, as rotating a Vanguard on uneven ground will affect the Vanguard's firing arc more than a Mag (significantly)

b) both tanks' chassis - If the Mag is running Rival and the Van with Racer, a Mag at close range will be able to circle-strafe faster than the Van can rotate. Additionally, the Mag can literally drive over the Van (or past it) which would force the Van to swing its turret 180 degrees to re-acquire, and given the rotational speed of the turret, this isn't necessarily easy, especially when you factor re-aiming.

c) the presence of other friendly or enemy units/turrets, etc. This comes down to situational awareness of the overall scenario, modified by the armor configuration of the tank (front, side, etc).

d) Vanguard cannons have recoil, and it's not only vertical. A Van shooting sideways has to adjust for each shot. A Magrider doesn't. This effectively gives the Mag an accuracy advantage, especially in moving fights over non-flat terrain, where the Vanguard driver has to adjust for movement of the tank, terrain-related gun movement and also recoil.

The downside for a Mag driver is projectile speed. The Mag AP "shell" is slower, close-medium range, it's not a huge problem on slower moving or stationary targets.

One advantage is that the Mag can climb rock formations and place itself in areas which regular MBTs cannot go w/o without risk or perhaps at all. As another person here said, this gives the Mag pilot the ability to use cover more like infantry, whereas a Prowler or Vanguard will either get stock or fall down (and be vulnerable if they don't explode from flipping over).

The honest truth is that I'd be more afraid of Harassers in a Mag than a Vanguard, but the ability to drift and turbo *might* be an advantage in that it would help to make the Mag a more difficult target to hit, especially for the average Halberd gunner.

[ringring]

The Magrider is death on wheels.








without the wheels.

[blashyrk]

Originally Posted by ringring

The Magrider is death on wheels.








without the wheels.

This is kinda equivocal... Death for the Mag pilot/gunner or their opponents ?

[Dougnifico]

Interesting. As a TR tanker I can say we get killed 2 out of 3 times against either... until we anchor. If I start the engagement and my anchor is down, goodbye vanguard, shields or not.