Orbital Strike/Commander customizations coming, CR (certs) needs to be reworked

SturmovikDrakon · 2013-02-23, 01:48 PM

This seemed to have caught some attention on Reddit, so I thought I'd post it here as well. (thread: http://bit.ly/ZqmsRh)

I think with these commander/officer-like customizations coming in the foreseeable future, this warrants a change. But not just because of cosmetics. If Orbital Strikes will be (more than likely) available through command certifications, we don't want every mouth-breather with certs left to spare be able to acquire it.

In my opinion, something as important as a Command Rank should have never been available for purchase with certs in the first place.

If you are unwilling to work as a leader, why should you get the benefits of a leader?

My proposition is to bring back the Command system from the first game, or something that is similar to it. (it doesn't have to be a copy-paste system, just something that is not as freely accessible as it is now)

To advance in Command rank, you need to earn Command Experience, which you could earn by:

Leading a squad in a successful capture (requires you to be at the location/hex with at least half of your squad present)
By setting up way points, attack/defend orders near objectives such as control points/generators/SCUs and through successful completion/destruction of those objectives
Through successful completion of (upcoming) missions in the mission system
The amount of CEP will vary based on the amount of enemies located at the hex/control point before and during the capture (to discourage ghosting). The more enemies, the more experience (although there is a cap)

Any other ideas are welcomed

Note* Platoon leaders will not earn experience for every squad under their command, just their own.

Proposition on how OS could function: a combination of being a high enough CR rank and being a platoon (maybe squad) leader, along with some type of special resource.

There can be lenience on things like squad beacons and being able to read command chat, making them a bit more accessible. But beyond that, you should have to work for it.

These are just a few ideas. What do you all think?

Just keep in mind that this is not the only way. If you can come up with a mix of both CR experience and certs, shoot.

Also, for those interested in how the system worked in PS1

http://wiki.planetsidesyndicate.com/...erience_Points

http://wiki.planetsidesyndicate.com/...e=Command_Rank

TestyVenom · 2013-02-23, 02:01 PM

Yes, please!

Additional Suggested Requirements (for Orbital Strike):

1) A Battlerank of at least BR 60.
2) The character must have participated in at least 1000 base captures and 1000 bases defended.
3) The character must have every Squad Leader certification.
4) The character must be at least 3 weeks old.
5) Using the Orbital Strike must cost certification points to use and 700 units of each resource.
6) The Orbital Strike should have a cooldown of no less than 1 day (maybe multiple days).

Ghoest9 · 2013-02-23, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by TestyVenom

Yes, please!

Additional Suggested Requirements (for Orbital Strike):

1) A Battlerank of at least BR 60.
2) The character must have participated in at least 1000 base captures and 1000 bases defended.
3) The character must have every Squad Leader certification.
4) The character must be at least 3 weeks old.
5) Using the Orbital Strike must cost certification points to use and 700 units of each resource.
6) The Orbital Strike should have a cooldown of no less than 1 day (maybe multiple days).

Those requirments are really dumb for the most part.

1 BR 60 - this is fair

2 1000 caps and defense - DUMB it will encourage more whoring and less smart strategic play.

3 All squad certs - DUMB - some of those are fairly useless. Especially some of the colors for the 8% of colorblind players.

4 three weeks old - this is fair.

5 high resource cost - this is fair

5 long cool down - I like this but its DUMB - its not worth the effort to add in this case.

TestyVenom · 2013-02-23, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

Those requirments are really dumb for the most part.

1 BR 60 - this is fair

2 1000 caps and defense - DUMB it will encourage more whoring and less smart strategic play.

3 All squad certs - DUMB - some of those are fairly useless. Especially some of the colors for the 8% of colorblind players.

4 three weeks old - this is fair.

5 high resource cost - this is fair

5 long cool down - I like this but its DUMB - its not worth the effort to add in this case.

2) It would likely have no affect on that at all; the majority of the dedicated players have already reached that.

3) This has nothing to do with usefulness. This was suggested to add some form of leadership progression using what is currently in the game. It may be a good idea to require 100% Squad Leader certification completion before being able to progress through a Command Rank system.

6) There will be considerably more people with access to the OS in PS2 than had it in PS1. There needs to be a longer cooldown than what was in PS1 so as to prevent frequent/constant spamming of the OS in battles. Anything less than 12 hours would be too short, in my opinion, but I still suggest a 24-hour cooldown. Of course, this is assuming that the PS2 OS will be as powerful as the PS1 OS. The cooldown time should be considered based on the effectiveness and damage of the OS. It could be a low cooldown time if it is fairly weak.

Altogether, those suggestions were centered around the idea of preventing OS spam and to prevent easy access to the OS to new characters and players. Only experienced players should have access to this, in my opinion.

It's nice to see constructive feedback rather than simple insults. [sarcasm]

Ghoest9 · 2013-02-24, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by TestyVenom

3) This has nothing to do with usefulness. This was suggested to add some form of leadership progression using what is currently in the game. It may be a good idea to require 100% Squad Leader certification completion before being able to progress through a Command Rank system.

Forcing people to cert useless stuff as prerequisites for anything is bad game design - competent developers stopped doing this 10 years ago.

Stop trying to ruin the game.

BIGGByran · 2013-02-23, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by SturmovikDrakon

Note* Platoon leaders will not earn experience for every squad under their command, just their own.

I think this should be changed just a little bit, they should be rewarded with their hard work, I'm sure being a platoon leader isn't as easy as a squad leader.

When 'Mission' come in, Platoon leaders should be able to set them out and get a little "Command Exp" if it is completed, and just a little more if another squad in their platoon completes it (not the platoon leader's squad). Just enough Command Exp to where it is nice, but not enough to where they spam/abuse it or it is the primary way of advancing.

EDIT::

I think the platoon leader should also get some "Command Exp" if their squad capture/defend a territory (however defend is a bit tricky. Maybe a half capped base), something very little, like 1 Command Exp, depending on how hard it is to advance. So for large facilities(biolab, tech, amp) when the whole platoon is there, the Platoon leader could either earn 3 command exp or if each territory that is taken by a squad in the platoon gives 1, so a platoon capping a biolab, the Platoon leader gets 1 command exp. I hope this is clear as I know it sounds confusing. Let me know if I have to explain it better.

AThreatToYou · 2013-02-23, 04:03 PM

Base defenses should award good amounts of CEP. To, you know, encourage it.

Wahooo · 2013-02-23, 04:07 PM

Something bothersome about command stuff in this game.

Back when PS2 was announced and a few of the what about PS1 would you like to see changed?

A huge consensus was that CR needed to be earned, and needed to be actively kept. That getting CR5 and the benefits from that were too easy and cheap to get in PS1 and that PS2 needed a better system that took more effort to become a commander and get command ranks.

Then come to find out you just spend a few certs and gain command abilities? Really?
I guess all we can really hope is that the initial command abilities and titles were cheap and easy since the game was new and wanted to be able to quickly give some command abilities to everyone so those that really wanted to work towards it could start right away and that moving forward it will become harder to earn more CR and attached abilities?

MercDT · 2013-02-23, 04:17 PM

I'm doubtful that they'll add anything like the CR system back in PS1 now that we have the current "Leadership" cert tree. One can only hope.

Dkamanus · 2013-02-23, 05:26 PM

I added no formatting, but its a good read, according to people on the roadmap.

Before anything, I know there is the roadmap topic, it seems to be ignoring new topic entries to it, so I decided to up it here.

HOW TO DO THE ORBITAL STRIKE AND WHY THIS IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE:

Just so we start on good terms, this IS a small manifesto of what I think of the OS and how it should be applied to the game.

Let me make this perfectly clear, I'm not a PS1 Vet with a nostalgia case. The Orbital Strike IS a must in a game like this, specially since this game if very zerg friendly. We must consider the fact that, in this game, vehicles are just too easy to acquire and each added vehicles increases a force multiplier by a bunch, even if the MBTs in question are only 1 manned. Air units it happens the same, increasing the amount of force multiplier per air unit.

This can be very troublesome for small attacker/defending forces against a MUCH larger enemy, and the zerging bring out another problem, which LOTS of people have experienced in the game. There is a time this zerg with hit such a critical mass, that people start to avoid it, mostly because it has become SO huge, it's impossible to counter it unless ANOTHER zerg is thrown into the mix.

Both those things considered, the Orbital Strike is a tool that advanced players need in order to counter this massive incursion while defending a place, or while storming a heavily fortified position, in which case, the addition of a orbital strike by commander dedicated to the commanding aspect of Planetside 2 would give a lot of options and possibilities.

THE MAIN PROBLEM IN ORBITAL STRIKES

As we can see in the PS2 forums all around, and even in games like CoD or BF, the problem is the easiness that people fear that this tool will give in farming certs, using and abusing of a system that SHOULD NOT and CAN NOT be abused, in order to keep balance. What people fear is the immense power of this harnessed by gigantic outfits, with sufficient members to make the OS a spammable, total instakill object that will be spent on ANY occasion and any problem.

This is a very much valid problem people are concerned, and to adress this, restrictions are to be put in place. YES, this goes a little against the sidegrade thing SOE has planned, but a big problem in this game are the zergs and huge formations that are unbreakable simply because there is just a HUGE number of people, more people then bullets, and it kills ANY strategic effort any commander has to put in place in order to defeat it besides zerging back, simply because it has much more players against them, without any possible counter to it besides a second zerg.

Another problem is that we are SO accostumated IN GAMES to picture Orbital Strike mechanics as Total destruction tools that can make or break a match that people are afraid to have such a thing in planetside 2 and it breaks great combat and everything. EVEN more if its completely spammable.

SOLUTIONS TO THIS DILLEMA

First of all, restrictions. THESE MUST HAVE TO BE IN GAME. NOONE, including myself, wants a spammable easymode god's ray of death that grants a HUGE load of kill without any though or tactical use besides spamming it to hell. Restrictions is whats needed in THIS case, and therefore, some other mechanics need to be introduced, specially from PS1, since they worked, they just need some extra revamping.

Its called "Command Rank". It was a seperate rank awarded for those leading squads and platoons on planetside 1, which lead to special commander abilities that helped out with a LOT of things. THIS IS A MECHANIC THAT NEEDS TO COME BACK! It's a reward method, in a way, for commander players who like to command his troops effectively in a battlefield.

Command Rank was awarded by garnering Command Experience Points (CEP) based on the diffiulty of engagements in which the commander participated with his squad. If the squad is ghostcapping stuff, the CEP awarded will be minimal, as capping heavily contested bases will make for a good amount of CEP.

Here's the catch, however. In order to keep the Command Rank 5, players NEED to keep playing the game as commander in order to keep the CR5 level there. If you spend a week without playing the commander, you'll lose the CR5 and the ability to fire your Orbital Strike (NOT lose the purchased ability, you just can't fire it until you reach CR5 again). Make the loss of CXP bigger the higher ones Command rank is, so the player is forced to keep commanding. This will make people who like to command keep their role, while the FotMers not.

This IS an instrumental restriction needed for the Orbital Strike to work. We can't have it in the hands of ALL players available, as it CoD-ify the game even further, having a HUGE destructive power to a whole lot of players in a game where vehicles and air units play a VERY important roll.

BASIC WORKING ON HOW TO ACQUIRE THE ORBITAL STRIKE

In order to have the Orbital Strike, restriction must be put on place, for having such a powerful weapon in the right time can change the tide of a battle and consequentiely, the whole continent cap.
Some Basic restrictions concerning the players end:

Battle Rank 70 - This is a thing for advanced players, those who KNOW how to play the game and command for quite some time. Handing it out for new players will just not make em want to learn how to use strategically, using it on the first sign of trouble. And it adds a long term objective to a lot of players who like the command.

Command Rank 5 - This is a purchasable command rank 5 ability that adds to the arsenal of things a CR5 can do.

2000 certifications - It is an expensive tool, and a powerful one. It has to cost a LOT in order to make it the powerhouse we want it to be without breaking the game by having that many OS's firing over the course of one single battle.

And some Basic restrictions concerning the placement/usage rules the game puts on:

A player must point at a same location for 10 seconds - This is a restriction in the game rules. Think of infantry with a target laser designator. You can keep running around or the slightest miscalculation will make you miss the target, and therefore, a full 10 seconds stand still is needed. This is the first form of avoiding a OS from falling in your head, which is to snipe the commander in question. You can prevent a OS all together if having dedicated teams sniping for commanders trying to OS a place.

After the deployment, another 10 seconds are needed in order for the OS to be fully deployed - This is also needed for, in case of good deployment, people aware of whats happening can escape the area, minimizing the damage of a good organized platoon. This warning should be a visual effect of the place its about to get hit. I think audiable effect in the whole hex would scare the **** out of everyone, making all panic. Visual confirmation is the best.

12 hours cooldown - THIS is needed as well. Although I like having a OS ready in place, having it spammable will eventually turn this into OSside 2. A huge 12h cooldown is more then enough to award a commander 1 OS per gaming session (few people play more then 12h per gaming session), and will actually make having MORE commander desirable for multiple OS's per gaming session.

15 minute no-OS zone for the empire that fired on that specific HEX - This is also needed. Having spamming 5~8 consecutive OS because you have 8 commanders on your own outfit will turn this into OSside 2. Allowing one shot every 15 minutes on the Hex in question.

Commander's presence at the OS location to perform the ability - A commander MUST be in the same hex he's about to shot in order to order the Orbital Strike, so people can actually have a chance of stopping this from happening. Sniping has gained an Important utility now.

50% XP gains from the kills - This can or not be used, but the main idea here is to show that the OS is a tactical/strategy tool, not a farming toolm while still garnering something for those who actually spent ALL those certs into this.

50 meters Radius - Its a big enough radius to be used to deal with a chokepoint, while being unable to envelope a whole base with it.

HOW WILL THE ORBITAL STRIKE WORK?

The main idea is to have a commander use a Command Uplink Device (CUD, straight from PS1) that will allow it to give all his command abilities, from CR1 through CR 5. Having this is needed in order to also limit a little the functionality of a class in order to give another. I'll use my example. I run as a Light Assault, having the C4 always at the ready for it for some demolition job.

If I'll be doing some more heavy commander duty, such as platoon leader/faction leading, this tool should be in the utility slots in order for me not to keep everything that makes my class special. It's a tool you gain once after reaching CR1 and will allow a multitude of things, that I would not speak of in this thread.

With the CUD in hands, a commander will point his crosshair to a single position and hold it there for 10 seconds. That means TOTALLY IMMOBILE (Camera shutter thanks to explosions doesn't affect it). This means his a vulnerable target for 10 full seconds, even a longer ranges, specially if snipers are doing some commander sniping. Cover and positioning plays a keep strategic value in this for the commander to actually be able to fire the shot.

After this, we imagine the orbital placement is positioning and adjusting his position to fire at the location. Visual Effects must be in place for those 10 seconds, in order for people to actually have a chance to find either cover or run away from the spot that it's about to get bombed. Visual confirmation must only be used, as using audiable confirmation might freak out EVERYONE on the hex, even those not being a target, but this is something to be discussed as well.

After the final 10 seconds are up, a Orbital Strike on a 50m radius will hit ANYTHING for 6000 damage and destroy it or severely cripple it. Air units, being on the way of the OS, will be hit by stuff as well, but that'll prevent things below to recieve the damage the plane recieved. Infantry can find refuge on buildings while vehicles will have to run.

This can be a siege breaker or a defensive utility, without to total abuse about it. If a commander atempts to use it against a moving zerg, he has to compensate the timers he has in order to make the shot count, and for a complete immobile zerg tank column, it'll make em think twice before staying still trading shots.

WHY BRINGING BACK COMMAND RANK WILL MAKE THIS A GOOD THING

Commanders are actually missing a lot of funcionality to better lead troops and actually influence in a meaningfull way on the micro-based tactics and on the macro-based strategic levels. Adding CR5 is something players can work for, adds extra longevity to the roll without the need for extra vehicles and classes while still using the certification system for great effect.

Having abilities that help coordinate better in each CR level will make the Command rank meaningfull without having to spend ****loads of certs on them, as giving extra tools by SPENDING certs on them will give commander situational utilities that'll make em much more valuable targets in the field, without having to resort to XP rewards to surviving players, simply because in a strategic level, this can become the most dangerous player to a zerg.

COMMAND RANK CXP REQUIREMENTS AND REWARDS

These are examples of Certification Purchasable abilities for commanders. There would also gain abilities more directed towards coordination for each CR level achieved.

Command Rank 1
Command Experience (CXP) needed: 100,000 XP
Ability Unlock: Unmanned Air Vehicle
Cost: 100 Certs
Effect: Pinging a location, giving the location of EVERYTHING in a 100 m radius on the map for the commander for 30 seconds.
Cooldown: 20 minutes
Limitation: Must be fired on the same hex the commander is.

Command Rank 2
CXP needed: 200,000 XP
Ability Unlock: ???

Command Rank 3
CXP Needed: 400,000 XP
Ability Unlock: ???

Command Rank 4
CXP needed: 800,000 XP
Ability Unlock: EMP Pulse
Cost: 1000 certs
Effect: Disables everything electronic (minus infantry weapons, TR for being mechanical, NC for working with magnets and electrical currents and VS, cause aliens) in a 100m radius for 8 seconds. No protection from it, so buildings won't help out.
Cooldown: 2 hours
Limitation: Must be on the same hex to fire.

Command Rank 5
CXP needed: 1,600,000 XP
Ability unlock: Orbital Strikes
Cost: 2000 certs
Effect: Deals 6000 damage to anything within a 50m radius around the target location. Doesnt affect things under cover of buildings, bridges, rock formations, etc.
Cooldown: 12 hours
Limitation: Must be on the same hex to fire. After any OS of the same faction has been shot in that hex, a 15 minute cooldown is implemented in order for another shot to be made.

Empire Specific Orbital Strikes:
NC - Mass Driver Orbital Cannon [MDOC]- Fire several chunks of metal from the cannon, hitting with lots of debries for 6000 damage.
TR - Hellfire Missile Barrage [HMB] - Fire several missiles into one location dealing 6000 damage.
VS - Advanced Multi Lancer Battery [AMLB] - Fires several laser shots against a spot, dealing 6000 damage.

The way they act against each other must be different, but the end result must be the same. This is just an opinion on how the OS' must be named and should function.

FINAL CONSIDERATION

Considering all the pro and cons of the OS in nowadays games, specially FPSes, THIS OS idea makes it a VERY nice tool to be used against a large group if the commander knows its workings and when, where and how to use it, while being a total waste for the unexperienced. This will not be a farming tool if the devs know how to restrict a powerful weapon like this.

Thank you for reading this 6 page long manifesto on how the OS should work on PS2. Hopefully I'll be able to put it on the roadmap later on, once the thread stops sucking my posts there =[

This is the way it should be put in the game.

Baneblade · 2013-02-24, 09:55 AM

The OS should cost 10k certs to unlock.

That is the only gate needed. 99.9875% of players will never have the patience to see that through.

Shogun · 2013-02-23, 05:32 PM

i would like the orbital strike to be based on a squadleader timer.

you can only fire it, after you were the leader of a squad for at least one hour.
this would prevent permanent commander swapping if leading a squad is necessary to fire an orbital strike (and this should be a necessity because only a commander on duty should be able to send commands to the orbital satellite)

Wahooo · 2013-02-23, 05:33 PM

Saying an IDEA is dumb is not the same as a simple insult. You're Dumb. Is an insult. The idea is dumb. Is just a statement of opinion.

I'd rather see gaining OS ability tied to actions that meant you actually leading a squad. Some kind of command experience that had nothing to do with BR or time in game or investing in squad certs. Gaining these points would be made in a way that would probably take care of all of those other suggested requirements that really only have to do with time in game rather than commander's actions.

BTW... who thinks that a VAST majority of the OS's in the game are going to be on the crest of the hill between the Crown and X-Road Tower?

Other than that, as fast as AMS's go down, and without the same choke points I don't really see OS's being as useful as they were in PS1. If they start getting spammed all over the place I certainly can see them getting annoying. I'm fine with an 8 or 12 hour CD. 24 hours is way too long.

Rothnang · 2013-02-23, 06:47 PM

I don't think this is a good idea. Access to squad leader abilities shouldn't be based on how often you lead a squad, because that just leads to people trying to whore squad leads at any opportunity.

What if you have an outfit that likes to run tight squads with lots of qualified people who take turns leading? You're going to have a really hard time getting them leveled to have the proficiency. Why are people who are highly organized less deserving of leadership perks than people who just run public squads all night?

Squad abilities should be restricted by how many people you are leading at the time, that way you don't have the issue of people making a mass of 2 person squads just so they can have more leaders on the field, and you actually make getting a powerful ability contingent on what your squad is doing.

Hey, maybe Squad powers could be given out similarly to how CoD does it, except instead of basing the points on the individual player it's based on the whole squad. Your orbital strike tool just counts up the (unmodified) XP earned by your squad and grants you access to the strikes accordingly. Let's say 30000 XP buys an orbital strike, then if you lead a squad of 3 or 4 people and you're just doing a bit of back capping you won't get orbital strikes very often because you're just not in a huge battle that warrants a battle station going overhead, but if you lead a squad of 12 or a whole platoon in the middle of a huge battle with XP rolling in like crazy you'll get a strike pretty fast.

psijaka · 2013-02-25, 03:58 AM

Originally Posted by Rothnang

I don't think this is a good idea. Access to squad leader abilities shouldn't be based on how often you lead a squad, because that just leads to people trying to whore squad leads at any opportunity.

What if you have an outfit that likes to run tight squads with lots of qualified people who take turns leading? You're going to have a really hard time getting them leveled to have the proficiency. Why are people who are highly organized less deserving of leadership perks than people who just run public squads all night?

Squad abilities should be restricted by how many people you are leading at the time, that way you don't have the issue of people making a mass of 2 person squads just so they can have more leaders on the field, and you actually make getting a powerful ability contingent on what your squad is doing.

Hey, maybe Squad powers could be given out similarly to how CoD does it, except instead of basing the points on the individual player it's based on the whole squad. Your orbital strike tool just counts up the (unmodified) XP earned by your squad and grants you access to the strikes accordingly. Let's say 30000 XP buys an orbital strike, then if you lead a squad of 3 or 4 people and you're just doing a bit of back capping you won't get orbital strikes very often because you're just not in a huge battle that warrants a battle station going overhead, but if you lead a squad of 12 or a whole platoon in the middle of a huge battle with XP rolling in like crazy you'll get a strike pretty fast.

^ this is the best idea by far, but, judging by what Higby has said, OS isn't going to work that way.

I'm worried about Orbital Strike; I've not played PS1, but vets say it is a pretty powerful tool. Even the "hinted at" reduced version is going to get spammed like mad and will totally ruin the few decent battles that do occur; goodness knows, there are enough ways to meet sudden death in this game as it is eg: -cough- rocketpods.

I can't think of a lower skill way of killing a mass of people; point and click on the map and instant death, with no chance whatsoever for those on the receiving end. LAME.