Sense of Accomplishment

[Maverick]

May I propose a challenge... One I’m sure the Devs themselves found challenging as there are few examples in this genre to learn from.

There are many people with different kinds of motivations. If you were a Dev, how might you design PS2 to appeal to the masses sense of accomplishment?

Feel free to go to what ever detail you feel necessary.

My motive behind the question: I loved Planetside, but after spending countless hours playing, I slowly lost my ability to gain satisfaction from my victories in a never ending territory battle. I'm not exactly sure what might appeal to me and earn my subscription, but I am optimistic for PS2.

I'll start:

I think in my case a tangible reward that says "Look at me!<muscle Flex>" would be the best drive for me. I think WoW showed how affective this was. Not so easy in a FPS I realize since any feat of accomplishment you set will have a varying difficulty as it relies on the players to enforce so some conditions may have to be set.

THE FEAT OF ACCOMPLISHMENT:
--Each faction could have one or two bases that act as Capital battle fortresses. Capturing the battle fortress awards achievements and tangible rewards.
1. Fortress has not one command console but three.
1.1 All three command consoles must be captured.
1.2 Battle fortress command consoles must be held for two hours by opposing faction to claim its capture.
1.2.1 Home faction only need hold a captured battle fortress command console for thirty mins before it is returned to their control.

2. A captured Capital battle fortress is destroyed and another is not re-spawned for one 72 hour period in a new area adjacent to the sanctuary.

3. Fortress sports automated defense systems that take a moment to lock on but are devastating when target is acquired. This is to prevent small forces sneaking in while the fortress is undermanned. (controversial I agree, I’m open to better ideas)
3.1 Three separate security modules must be hacked to disable the automated systems.
3.1.1 Each Security module is protected by two light anti personnel turrets.
3.1.2 Each Security has an impassable shield that must be deactivated by deactivating small external power generators that are separate from the ones that power the rest of the fortress.

4. Those eligible to receive rewards upon successful capture of a Capital battle fortress:
4.1 Only those who have been online for the two hours prior to the capture of the fortress are awarded. Good standard raid time for many MMO's. Also discourages other factions hopping to the winning side at last minute to get achievement. Also discourages but not guarantee that players wont switch to a single faction and juggernaut empire their way to victory.
4.2 Realm Population difference between defending and capturing faction cannot exceed amount X. (Discourages Juggernaut Empire and low population back capping)
4.3 Population difference of fortress territory and surrounding territories between defending and capturing faction cannot exceed amount X. (Discourages Juggernaut Empire and low population back capping)


--THE REWARD:
1. Unlock a "You Win, The end" amazing video(S).
2. Awards the player achievements
3. Awards the company achievements
4. Awards Achievement points for purchase of
4.1 Achievement point buy's allow for purchase of new armor's, weapons, accessories for cosmetic flare and prestige (provides the "Look at me!<muscle Flex>) feel.
5. Unlock Ancient Tech (could be point buy based as well)

My thoughts on the idea: I tried to make it difficult for sake of making the achievement prestigious and yet the most exploit proof as I could think of. Tweaking needed? No doubt. Good idea? Ill let the masses decide.

And yes i'm a forum noob, please keep the hate to a minimum. looking for constructive thoughts.

Anyway, your turn...

[Bags]

Getting the kill, cap, or cont lock is all the sense of accomplishment I need. Merits and achievements are meaningless fluff that detract from a shooter, which should primarily be about shooting people. Not collecting every shiny.

[DreaM]

Originally Posted by Bags

Getting the kill, cap, or cont lock is all the sense of accomplishment I need. Merits and achievements are meaningless fluff that detract from a shooter, which should primarily be about shooting people. Not collecting every shiny.

I see no problem with having both, it's nice to have something to show off if you've headshotted 20,000 people. It doesn't detract from the game as you're still playing the game to get the "shiny things".

Fluff? Yes. Game breaking? definitely not.

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by Bags

Getting the kill, cap, or cont lock is all the sense of accomplishment I need. Merits and achievements are meaningless fluff that detract from a shooter, which should primarily be about shooting people. Not collecting every shiny.

Merits and achievements in no way detract from any game. They simply let you know you're doing a good job.

[Sovereign]

Or in some cases they distract people from being true asset on the field.

I wouldn't mind something new like achievements going out to the most valuable players a day for example...

[Bags]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Merits and achievements in no way detract from any game..

I guess you've never played WoW or TF2.

[DreaM]

Originally Posted by Bags

I guess you've never played WoW or TF2.

Provided the achievements encourage normal game-play there is nothing wrong with it. I really like the merit system PS1 has.

[Zulthus]

I don't see the whole problem with using x weapon to get y amount of kills. Not sure how it's regarded as "inefficient". Not everyone is going to have their knife out 24/7 doing their own thing, so I don't see how it detracts from teamwork if you just want to have fun with the game you pay for. There's thousands of other linear players who don't do that stuff, so it'll be fine if there are merits/achievements.

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by Bags

I guess you've never played WoW or TF2.

I made the mistake of playing WoW for a while. WoW is a completely different game from Planetside and has absolutely no relevance to the current thread. It doesn't involve hundreds/thousands of players all using teamwork to capture an objective.

TF2, played it once, crap game, also nothing like Planetside

[Bags]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

I made the mistake of playing WoW for a while. WoW is a completely different game from Planetside and has absolutely no relevance to the current thread. It doesn't involve hundreds/thousands of players all using teamwork to capture an objective.

TF2, played it once, crap game, also nothing like Planetside

My point is that achievements discourage efficiently completing objectives. They always do. It's a moot comparison if you haven't played either game though, as you won't understand.

[Tatwi]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

I made the mistake of playing WoW for a while. WoW is a completely different game from Planetside and has absolutely no relevance to the current thread. It doesn't involve hundreds/thousands of players all using teamwork to capture an objective.

TF2, played it once, crap game, also nothing like Planetside

WoW has 40 vs 40 maps with co-op objectives, plus many other large scale PvP types, including "world PvP" that grants zone wide benifits (like 5% more XP) which could have thousands of players in a battle. However, no one does this, even though the game has millions of players world wide from all walks of life, which probably means something.

Wintergrasp used to have hundreds of players per battle until Blizzard decided to throttle it for performance reasons. Unlike a simplified combat game such as Planetside, WoW simply has way too many spells, procs, dots, movement vectors, and other things to process for that many players simaltaniously. That's not a knock to Planetside, just pointing out that Planetside has more optimized, simplified player interactions that translates into being able to support more players per zone than WoW. Even the EQII team had to scale back on the amount item procs in the game, because they were beging to effect the server performance in raids, which also helps to clarify the difference between Planetside's combat "logic/math" and other games that have more abilities/spells/items firing in a battle.

None the less, I see that it's cool to hate RPGs in the Planetside community, just like hating WoW was always the cool thing to do in Everquest II & Star Wars Galaxies, so I most likely just wasted my time explaining this...

[Malorn]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Merits and achievements in no way detract from any game. They simply let you know you're doing a good job.

I've seen a lot of idiots in games running around going for achievements. Nothing quite as dumb as having a couple guys running around on your team only knifing people so they can get their knife-platinum merit. Or using their pistol when they should be using their assault rifle simply so they can get their pistol merits. Or they bypass all teamwork and make suicide runs at objectives so they can be the ones to tag them for their merit.

Achievements just encourage people to do dumb things. Some achievements are OK, but the kind like "Kill x players with y weapon" only encourage people to be inefficient and detracts from teamwork.

This man said it best:

Thats all you need for a sense of accomplishment, actually accomplishing something.

[exLupo]

I'm sure there will be some kind of cheevos and flair rewards. It's so common anymore. Hopefully things will stay serious and in line with the PlanetSide aesthetic. That kind of thing is part of what keeps a segment of players active in repetitive games. It increases the market appeal but, if they don't screw up the lore feel, doesn't detract from the play experience of those who dgaf.

However, I will say that Bags put it best.

Originally Posted by Bags

Getting the kill, cap, or cont lock is all the sense of accomplishment I need.

When home for lunch, I'd make a sandwich while logging in and spend a few minutes just trying to get one good, long range snipe. Not a huge goal but satisfying.

"There is no better cause to fight than the simple need that blood be spilled. Do not fight because you receive reward or praise. Fight because that other bastard exists solely to die at the end of your blade."

[cashfoyogash]

Originally Posted by Bags

Getting the kill, cap, or cont lock is all the sense of accomplishment I need. Merits and achievements are meaningless fluff that detract from a shooter, which should primarily be about shooting people. Not collecting every shiny.

Not true I think halo xbox live achievements are awesome. Like capture the flag in a ctf match or get a double kill with the shotgun.... i like the idea of achievements.

Originally Posted by exLupo

"There is no better cause to fight than the simple need that blood be spilled. Do not fight because you receive reward or praise. Fight because that other bastard exists solely to die at the end of your blade."

Eh, spartacus quote?

[InternetZombie]

The thing with Planetside is it really shows how redundant gaming is. WoW's battlegrounds and even the "world" PVP are the same, your always fighting over the same thing, even if you win it has no effect on anything. This is the same as Planetside, the only difference is that in Planetside it's not instanced.

There isn't a game out there that isn't redundant.
Achievements are a gimick only ment to keep people from realizing that the game there playing is redundant.

What happens once you have all the achievements? Will you keep playing the game once there all gone? If you wont stick around and play the game for the game, it isn't likely you'll stick around once all the achievements have been earned.

Earning things is great if there meaningful.

My sense of accomplishment comes from seeing my side winning, even if I'm doing horribly there is always something I can do to help out. It's a team effort, that being said what happens when you get something for killing X soldiers in a row without dying but I get squat and the only reason you were able to kill X soldiers in a row is because I was healing you?