Higby's "Expedition" Continents

Edfishy · 2014-06-21, 05:15 PM

Higby explained on the PS2 forums how and why they're doing Hossin now.

The jist is that it takes the level designers 2-3 weeks to produce a "Amerish-quality" outpost, with that time roughly multiplied out by a factor of 80 to fully complete a continent. Higby describes Hossin's outposts at the moment as being 50% polished, 25% first pass, and 25% copy-paste bases, and refers to Hossins early release as an "Early Expedition" continent.

Well heck, I say you throw down some construction equipment and barrels and just make this a part of the game! Make new continents that "aren't fully established" a part of the game's lore.

For new "expedition" continents, I imagine it couldn't take much more than a month for SOE's artists to create the raw landscape. Cookie cutter in some PS2:Beta style bases and you're talking a new continent every month or so! (Ranik here even suggested a rudimentary base placement setup for Outfits)

I can understand with SOE's new locking mechanism that they might have qualms in the cases where new players might end up locked into "Low Quality" continent. That's why if expedition continents to be a thing, I'd have their mechanics different so they are locked / unlocked along with the "High Quality" continents, something akin to the battle islands.

What do you think? Are more "Early Expedition" continents an answer to PS2's continent problem?

Edit: I had previously misquoted that there were "80 outposts" that needed to be done per continent. This has been corrected!

ringring · 2014-06-21, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by Edfishy

Higby explained on the PS2 forums how and why they're doing Hossin now.

The jist is that it takes the level designers 2-3 weeks to produce a "Amerish-quality" outpost, and there's roughly 80 outposts needed to be finished per new continent. Higby describes Hossin's outposts at the moment as being 50% polished, 25% first pass, and 25% copy-paste bases, and refers to Hossins early release as an "Early Expedition" continent.

Well heck, I say you throw down some construction equipment and barrels and just make this a part of the game! Make new continents that "aren't fully established" a part of the game's lore.

For new "expedition" continents, I imagine it couldn't take much more than a month for SOE's artists to create the raw landscape. Cookie cutter in some PS2:Beta style bases and you're talking a new continent every month or so! (Ranik here even suggested a rudimentary base placement setup for Outfits)

I can understand with SOE's new locking mechanism that they might have qualms in the cases where new players might end up locked into "Low Quality" continent. That's why if expedition continents to be a thing, I'd have their mechanics different so they are locked / unlocked along with the "High Quality" continents, something akin to the battle islands.

What do you think? Are more "Early Expedition" continents an answer to PS2's continent problem?

160-240 weeks is between 3 to 4.5 years to create a continent and I think they have 1 full time and 1 to 2 part time level creators at present.

The devs just have to do something.

BlaxicanX · 2014-06-21, 06:55 PM

I think that them needing 80 bases per continent is ridiculous.

I think that them needing 3 weeks to create one base is ridiculous.

I've always felt that there's too many bases, especially when you consider the ratio of # of bases versus the importance of any particular base. Aside from AMP stations, Tech-Labs and Biolabs, regular bases really have no significance aside from geological ones. There's really no reason for why every single base, or nearly every single base, needs to be custom-designed.

On each continent, a "template" for normal bases should be created, with just one or two minor variations. Then those templates should be C/P'd across the continent, shaping the terrain to fit around the bases. The only bases should require hand-crafting are the extremely important ones.

Edfishy · 2014-06-21, 07:03 PM

Not sure if it was even 80 outposts specifically that he was referring to, but just overall quality assurance. Full quote:

Originally Posted by Higby

...we've figured out that creating a "good" outpost in Planetside 2 takes about 2-3 weeks of level design, art playtesting and iteration time minimally, per outpost. Multiply that by 80 or so, and you'll get a good idea of how much work is required for a high-quality continent.

My bad... :c

Edit

Originally Posted by BlaxicanX

I've always felt that there's too many bases, especially when you consider the ratio of # of bases versus the importance of any particular base. Aside from AMP stations, Tech-Labs and Biolabs, regular bases really have no significance aside from geological ones. There's really no reason for why every single base, or nearly every single base, needs to be custom-designed.

Yeah, it does feel really weird doesn't it? Bases are literally stacked one on top of another. I've come to wonder if it wasn't done for two reasons:

#1. Shorten the walking distance towards another fight. Which was a miscalculation considering how outfit ops usually play out + spawn in transport.

#2. Reduce the impact of players popping into the distance by putting bases in the way. Honestly though, I never remember this being a problem in north Indar, or old Esamir.

Stardouser · 2014-06-21, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by Edfishy

Yeah, it does feel really weird doesn't it? Bases are literally stacked one on top of another. I've come to wonder if it wasn't done for two reasons:

#1. Shorten the walking distance towards another fight. Which was a miscalculation considering how outfit ops usually play out + spawn in transport.

#2. Reduce the impact of players popping into the distance by putting bases in the way. Honestly though, I never remember this being a problem in north Indar, or old Esamir.

You know in your heart that it's to keep down time-to-engagement pacing to help appeal to other games' players. They could always have ridges and stuff to make a distance-breaker (responding to #2) but the players of certain other games just won't play if you can't spawn and be shooting/shot at within a certain number of seconds.

Edfishy · 2014-06-21, 08:23 PM

So let's come up with a HART transport that goes between bases or something.

Personally, I'm for a split between "Grunts" (free players) and "Elites" (paying players). Grunts play COD and are given quick travel to bases, while the rest of us play PS and rely on transportation. But that's a different discussion altogether... >.>

BlaxicanX · 2014-06-21, 08:37 PM

That's dumb.

Boildown · 2014-06-22, 03:28 AM

80 bases per continent is fine, good even. Just increase the distance between them and make the continent bigger. Right now it seems very unrealistic. Instead of a continent, we have a county.

Figment · 2014-06-22, 05:14 AM

Tbh, they should release continents with 60% copy paste... then refine later.

Terrain variety is more important than base variety.

ringring · 2014-06-22, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by Figment

Tbh, they should release continents with 60% copy paste... then refine later.

Terrain variety is more important than base variety.

Didn't they imagine creating 2 new continents per year at the start? At this rate it will be one per year and this year's is Hossin.

Perhaps in the long run we'll get the continents but it's worthwhile recalling the quote from John Maynard Keynes about 'the long run'.

Belhade · 2014-06-23, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by ringring

Didn't they imagine creating 2 new continents per year at the start? At this rate it will be one per year and this year's is Hossin.

Perhaps in the long run we'll get the continents but it's worthwhile recalling the quote from John Maynard Keynes about 'the long run'.

I thought that was Don Henley...

Babyfark McGeez · 2014-06-23, 02:56 AM

Painstakingly handcrafting these continents was a really stupid idea to begin with. And 80 "or so" outposts? What? WHY? Nobody needs that many and half of them never see any action anyways. This absurd amount of unique bases is imo even bad for the gameplay (tunnel/rushlane syndrome, no space to fight) and creates so much additional balance work. I'd rather have four or five different, good base layouts that work instead of 80 that all have some annoyances, imbalances and quirks.

There is a reason PS1 relied heavily on copy+paste bases; You actually get some continents done that way, and more continents (different visuals) -> more bases (same visuals). Also you don't have to spend weeks on a design that ultimately proves to be bad and ends up eating up yet more time to be fixed.
Look, i know you SOE mappers and designers are capable to make some good looking stuff. PS2 simply is not the game for you to let it all out. It's a game "about numbers", remember?

Man, what a waste of time and to me another sign that these guys have their priorities wrong in order for a Planetside game to work and/or have no friggin' clue where they want to sail with this ship. COD clone? Original MMOFPS? Planetside? Quick buck? Identity crisis? I dunno...

So my advice because i'm a nice guy: Copy+Paste some GOOD, real BASES, and get some continents done! Put the focus on continents instead of bases and give us some original and unique enviroments instead of spending most of your time trying to arrange the same, grey props (which look the same on every continent anyways) in a different way for each base.
OR, if you really, really, insist on handcrafting every single base and can't be convinced by logic or common sense, atleast use distinctly different art styles that reflect the different continents (esamir = igloos, indar = tents, you get the idea - just check up World of Warcraft to see how it's done right).
Currently it's just the worst of both worlds.

That being ranted, i heard we get Hossin? Nice! Might have to check back in for that.

Crator · 2014-06-22, 08:26 AM

Let's just get enough continents in to have a good Planetside continent locking system. Copy/Paste all you need to. Just get it done. The detail of all the different outposts and towers (other then landscape) are nice but let's not sacrifice the real Planetside meta-game any longer then needed please.

I agree about the amount of locations between major facilities too. Way too many if you ask me.

Baneblade · 2014-06-22, 08:55 AM

I like the idea of a continent with wilderness more than outpost outpost outpost base outpost outpost outpost base.

Blynd · 2014-06-22, 09:41 AM

I look forward to the day someone in the Dev team says

" we should make fewer outposts and space the bases our more, this would make creating continents much faster and allow for meaningful ground vehicle warfare. "

It maybe a while off but hell you can wish

I'd rather play on 10 half built continents then 4 fully finished ones forbade next few years. Hossin should have been released last year and then as with the costs so far upgraded as they went.