Our concerns made it to PCGamer.com

Sturmhardt · 2013-01-03, 02:22 PM

Wow, Buzzcutpsychos complaints made it to the frontpage of pcgamer.com:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/01/03/pl...e-2-critiques/

I guess SOE will have to act on this... TB did it, Hamma is doing it, Buzz is doing it spreading the word about the core issues too.

I am very excited to read Smeds state of the game he wants to post in january

yadda · 2013-01-03, 02:33 PM

That's good, I don't like Buzz personally but he was very spot on about his assessment with the game. My largest complaint of this game contradicts my playstyle heavily. Everything revolves around certs, if you're not getting certs you're not playing the game, the best way to get certs is to kill people as fast and efficiently as possible. A lot of people will argue that with me, but there's really no other real goal unless you get warm fuzzies for repairing people and standing around doing a whole lot of nothing capping pointless areas, that's all we have.

I wish that team play was better rewarded than killwhoring but then I look at all of the medic vultures who cant even be bothered to upgrade their tools and change my mind but what I do know is the whole k/d thing needs to go. Even if it doesn't matter, there are people like me who obsess over it and to compound the issue it's the best way to earn certs.

I used to drive an ammo sunderer around but it was too risky/not rewarding enough so I simply stopped and started using a magrider and that's where I have stayed. Of all the things I want addressed the most I want the blatant kill whoring to stop and team play to be much better. I love running around doing stuff with my outfit then I press tab and see such poor exp/hr I feel like I have wasted so much time when I could be farming a sunderer in my magrider.

Assist · 2013-01-03, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by yadda

I love running around doing stuff with my outfit then I press tab and see such poor exp/hr I feel like I have wasted so much time when I could be farming a sunderer in my magrider.

I can honestly say I've never intentionally farmed a sunderer. I've spammed spawn rooms like everyone else, but I always hear about these people who farm sunderers. I just don't do things that are not enjoyable in game. If I'm ever in a Liberator it's because I'm piloting it for someone else, because it's incredibly boring IMO. I love my Magrider, but I go around looking for fights usually. I don't find some spawn and just camp it for 30 minutes.
I dunno, maybe I'm one of the few high rank players that attempts to play the goals of the games? People focus way too much on their certs, k/d, and score/hour. All that comes naturally if people would just play the game for fun.

Same goes to everyone who is critiquing the shit out of the game. It's great to try to improve the game and all, and I know most of the high rank players who are posting still enjoy logging in every night, but the whining about it in-game just makes no sense to me. It's meant to be fun, if you spend your entire in-game time whining about the game then why bother? :| I totally get coming to forums for ranting and raving about the game, but if it's really so bad then why even bother logging in. Games are meant to be fun, if it's not fun then I'm sure there's other games out there that the unhappy individuals can find enjoyable..

yadda · 2013-01-03, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by Assist

I can honestly say I've never intentionally farmed a sunderer. I've spammed spawn rooms like everyone else, but I always hear about these people who farm sunderers.

Well, I guess my post can be misleading, Iv never actually "farmed" a sunderer in an abusive way. I think only a lib can actually do that by splashing the ground near them. A lot of times, I am physically incapable of breaking a sunderer due to using HE ammo and people repairing it from behind where I can't shoot. Heavies pop out and shoot me with rockets so I HAVE to kill them and when I get back to the sunderer it's at max health again so it just turns into impomptu farming by circumstance not by choice. I still use the body of the sunderer as a wall for my explosions but I just can't break it. Asking me to walk away and leave it is similarly ridiculous. So what options do I have?

I spawn camp doors, I do everything people complain about because that's just how the game works. I'm not going to lose on purpose just to make someone else feel better about themselves.

The smart people know the system is bonkers and encourages behavior like this because other things aren't rewarded as well or sometimes even not at all. I want to be that guy who always has a sunderer and keep it alive but it gives crap for exp so why should I bother with it?

Ghoest9 · 2013-01-03, 03:22 PM

I dont know Buzz - but hes pretty much spot on.

K/D whoring is no way to build a long term community or promote tactics.

And the over supply of vehicles(especially aoe spamming air) has destroyed what most players enjoy.

Chewy · 2013-01-03, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by yadda

The smart people know the system is bonkers and encourages behavior like this because other things aren't rewarded as well or sometimes even not at all. I want to be that guy who always has a sunderer and keep it alive but it gives crap for exp so why should I bother with it?

I can't not tell you how many times I failed to get XP from doing support jobs. Getting XP for ammo, repairs, heals, and what not is fine for squad mates most of the time (read not all), but when Im helping pubs often all of that work is for nothing.

Troop based heals, repairs, and ammo seem to give XP fine. Yet often I never get revive XP and NEVER get vehicle ammo XP for my sundy with non-squad members. When I running an AMS/ammo sundy and there's already one deployed I keep mine on the move to supply ammo for everyone. No mater how much I hear the resupply sound I just can't get XP without them being in my squad.

Hell, Iv babysat 2 skyguards with an ammo sundy for around 20 minutes before with both of them blasting everything in the sky and not get a single point of XP. Not a single point for over 20 minutes of me risking my neck so that they (2 people Iv never seen before) can do their jobs. Didn't even get repair XP because of them being badasses at keeping the skies clear.

And please don't get me started on how Gal pilots get shafted for doing the only thing they can do now that the GAMS is gone.

Shogun · 2013-01-03, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Assist

Same goes to everyone who is critiquing the shit out of the game. It's great to try to improve the game and all, and I know most of the high rank players who are posting still enjoy logging in every night, but the whining about it in-game just makes no sense to me. It's meant to be fun, if you spend your entire in-game time whining about the game then why bother? :| I totally get coming to forums for ranting and raving about the game, but if it's really so bad then why even bother logging in. Games are meant to be fun, if it's not fun then I'm sure there's other games out there that the unhappy individuals can find enjoyable..

i haven´t logged in for some time and i keep my whining constructive and out of the game, in the forums for the devs to see. but i think i can answer your question. ps2 is the only game that has unlimited potential, and the whiners keep logging in because there is nothing similar and the game may turn into the best game ever. i really hope it will!

Ghoest9 · 2013-01-03, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Assist

I totally get coming to forums for ranting and raving about the game, but if it's really so bad then why even bother logging in. Games are meant to be fun, if it's not fun then I'm sure there's other games out there that the unhappy individuals can find enjoyable..

Apparently no one told you about the rapidly declining server populations.

Almost all of us are logging on less and less. which is a shame because the game could be so good.

MrBloodworth · 2013-01-03, 03:57 PM

He just said what the vets said in alpha/beta. Not that it did not need to be said again, apparently.

I'm just waiting and watching for the Update 2. They have been quite silent since launch.

RykerStruvian · 2013-01-03, 02:48 PM

I think BuzzCutPsycho is hilarious and I don't agree with what he does, however he is not stupid. The points he made were valid and I am happy to see PCGamer did bring him up and his criticism. Also, lol...the picture on the front page is the Crown.

RykerStruvian · 2013-01-03, 03:28 PM

I think the problem also deals with the fact that its hard to manage a game where a player can outfit a particular vehicle to have varying tiers of upgrades. For instance, in PS1 Reavers typically took more than a single salvo to destroy ground vehicles. I even have a video where it took three salvos to destroy a flail. However, the vehicles themselves were flat across the board in terms of stats...

In PS2, a tank can have four levels of reinforced armor. A liberator can have four levels of reinforced armor too. In this case, the scaling of damage gets offset because they have to scale the weapons to be effective vs vanilla vehicles and also upgraded vehicles. Because of this, it just makes the game feel really imbalanced because it literally is imbalanced...

Sco · 2013-01-03, 03:39 PM

I think his post is spot on.

ringring · 2013-01-03, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Sco

I think his post is spot on.

I don't know. I agree with a lot. I don't agree with the meatgrinder thing which kind of contradicts what we've been saying about lack of defendable bases.

And KDR. I think we've just got to live with that, it's there and people will play to maximise one and minimise the other. That's human nature.

The problem is that there's nothing else. When the point comes that the meta-game arrives and therer is a reason to fight beyond KDR then it will (hopefully) be different.

Vertigo · 2013-01-03, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by ringring

I don't know. I agree with a lot. I don't agree with the meatgrinder thing which kind of contradicts what we've been saying about lack of defendable bases.

And KDR. I think we've just got to live with that, it's there and people will play to maximise one and minimise the other. That's human nature.

The problem is that there's nothing else. When the point comes that the meta-game arrives and therer is a reason to fight beyond KDR then it will (hopefully) be different.

That is the main problem. People log in and go out to kill, not to capture and complete objectives. It is a mindset that needs to change, or this will continue to be an academic exercise. As for the matter of meatgrinder vs. defensible base(s), I believe the attacker does NOT want to capture the base in most cases. If they did, that would stop the farming at that location and thus, reduce their kills / xp. That is why you see dozens of vehicles blasting the crown, but not moving in to take it. Even if they have the overwhelming numbers to do so, there is no incentive to finish the fight.

-Someone brings out a single aircraft, within a minute you see dozens of AA MAX units and skyguards pop up like a horde of parents fighting over the last barbie doll.

-Anyone repairs the turrets, and you have a dozen MBTs dialed into that exact spot and you are lucky to get a couple shots off before it is destroyed again. Then they wait, not for the engineers to get there, but for them to finish repairing. Even if they have clear line of sight to take them out, they wait for the guaranteed xp.

-A lone light assault jumps up on the top of the tower and starts jumping around to kill people. Not to distract from the ground assault, but just to get the kills. If they get taken out, it really does not matter because they probably got a few people before someone got them.

-A couple guys get in and start capturing a point, not to finish the fight, but to ambush the people coming to respond.

From my experience, most of the time, the defenders get tired of the siege and leave, or someone finally gets the zerg distracted enough that they move on. For the most part, only the outfits that really want to capture the base will do so, or the zerg will just roll over it. I have not yet witnessed a scenario where the defenders were able to wear down the attackers enough that they were forced to withdraw. Not that it has not happened, but I believe it is the exception and not the rule.

**Malorn** · 2013-01-03, 04:03 PM

Your concerns reached us long before PCGamer.

We haven't stopped listening to the players. Major changes have been the result of player feedback in Beta. Sunderer AMS, 12-man squads, adjacency requirements, generators, tug-o-war capture mechanics, and walls on amp stations, just to name a few. Those were all a result of player feedback. Honestly its the best dev interaction and response I'd seen in any game even before I was hired. Nothing has changed - we're still listening and we understand your concerns.