People who don't play in outfits - a growing problem?

Sonny · 2013-03-06, 06:26 AM

Hi all,
There's quite an interesting discussion going on at reddit at the moment that started with the question 'Are you currently not playing with an outfit? if so, what's your decision behind it?". I thought that this would be a good discussion to bring up here at PSU also.

EDIT: (to make clearer the issue with increased lone wolfing)

Of course, it is not a problem for someone to play lone wolf (people shouldn't be forced to play together after all), but since Planetside 2 is supposed to be a social game like other MMOs, outfit play is a core part of the community. If more and more people feel like playing solo is more fun with time, then more outfits may slowly wither away, eventually detracting from the community feel of the game.

I'm interested to hear if people feel that the number of players who play regularly in their outfit is going down because a lot of people now prefer to lone wolf? Or has recruiting new players to the outfit become more difficult because people prefer to play alone? Do you feel that this is a growing trend, or is this simply down to general population issues?

End edit

Top comments in the reddit discussion so far for reasons not to be in an outfit:

1. People generally enjoy lonewolfing and bringing havoc to the enemy behind enemy lines.

2. Some don't like outfit politics, having 'leaders' and being forced to listen to their orders. The leaders sometimes take the game too seriously, which is annoying.

3. Others just don't want to join massive zerg outfits.

4. Some don't play enough to be willing to make the time commitment to an outfit.

EDIT 2: to add points 5 and 6 following the discussion here at PSU

5. The Planetside 2 capture system doesn't work well for large groups of organised players; bases are capped too fast, bases that you have just conquered can be taken very quickly, lack of meaningful metagame for outfits.

6. The PS 2 in-game user interface does not help players to quickly find information about or join outfits that suit their play style.

Personally, I fall into camp no. 4.

Assist · 2013-03-06, 06:38 AM

What is the problem with people not being in outfits?

HiroshiChugi · 2013-03-06, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by Assist

What is the problem with people not being in outfits?

Exactly. But to answer your question, some people have a problem with it because of the "100s vs 100s vs 100s of players" being interpreted as outfit vs outfit vs outfit. Sort-of a pack mentality if summed up the right way.

Sonny · 2013-03-06, 06:46 AM

It's not a problem for me personally.

But I've seen others consider it a problem because it means less co-ordination between players overall (more zergy game) and obviously dying outfits as less players want to play together = less social environment = less fun for some.

Kerrec · 2013-03-06, 06:54 AM

If an outfit is dying, it is not because someone who never was in an outfit continues to remain outfit-less. Keep the blame (if there is blame to give) where it belongs.

I'm more or less in camp 4. Even though I have plenty of playtime, other than rare occasions, I never can commit to being online at a given time (for things like planned Ops nights), nor can I be certain how long I play on a given night. To top it off, due to my living arrangements, I can't really be spending my evenings talking into a microphone for hours. Put all that together and I don't feel like I'm going to be of any benefit to an outfit.

Hmr85 · 2013-03-06, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by Kerrec

If an outfit is dying, it is not because someone who never was in an outfit continues to remain outfit-less. Keep the blame (if there is blame to give) where it belongs.

I'm more or less in camp 4. Even though I have plenty of playtime, other than rare occasions, I never can commit to being online at a given time (for things like planned Ops nights), nor can I be certain how long I play on a given night. To top it off, due to my living arrangements, I can't really be spending my evenings talking into a microphone for hours. Put all that together and I don't feel like I'm going to be of any benefit to an outfit.

You need to find a outfit that isn't going to stick you to a overly strict schedule. There are plenty of laid back casual outfits out there that would love to have you that can field atleast half a platoon every night and are not going to stick you with planned nights for ops. As for the comms. Most outfits just require you to at least be able to listen to them. You should really give a Outfit on your server a try. Don't get discouraged if you run into a few bad eggs along the way. Finding a Outfit is like buying a new car. Don't be afraid to give them a test drive till you find the right one.

Best of luck

Kerrec · 2013-03-06, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Hmr85

You need to find a outfit that isn't going to stick you to a overly strict schedule. There are plenty of laid back casual outfits out there that would love to have you that can field atleast half a platoon every night and are not going to stick you with planned nights for ops. As for the comms. Most outfits just require you to at least be able to listen to them. You should really give a Outfit on your server a try. Don't get discouraged if you run into a few bad eggs along the way. Finding a Outfit is like buying a new car. Don't be afraid to give them a test drive till you find the right one.

Best of luck

My problem is what I expect from an Outfit and what I can bring to an Outfit are not in sync.

What I want from an outfit is a tight knig group, that employs good tactics over superior numbers to accomplish a goal. I also want to be able to understand the overall strategy a higher-up is using by looking at the map and evaluating his/her decisions.

What I bring is the willingness to teamplay, WHEN I can log on, for as long as I CAN be online.

Being a player with an erratic play schedule does not FIT with a tight knit Outfit.

Outfits that cater to erratic playtimes are either going to be huge and resort to throwing numbers at an objective, or they'll be no better than a PUB squad, which I can get anytime I want already.

Tatwi · 2013-03-06, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Sonny

It's not a problem for me personally.

But I've seen others consider it a problem because it means less co-ordination between players overall (more zergy game) and obviously dying outfits as less players want to play together = less social environment = less fun for some.

I dissagree with those people entirely. Communication has always been the key to success and nothing is stopping people from from talking and chatting on a level that is comfortable to each person, aside from will and snobbery. If "the big outfits" feel like the only people worthy of their time are those with their guild tag, so be it for them - let them live their solitary lives. The rest of us will push for better in game community building tools and methods to communicate in ways that are comfortable for all players, because we welcome anyone who wants to enjoy the game.

There was a great thread on the official forum where a lot of people posted about how they genuinely enjoy playing the game. "Alone, with other people" is the common sentiment and I think that can work out very well for PS2 in the long run.

http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/i...to-solo.95933/

Assist · 2013-03-06, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by Sonny

But I've seen others consider it a problem because it means less co-ordination between players overall (more zergy game) and obviously dying outfits as less players want to play together = less social environment = less fun for some.

Must be a reddit thing. I'm not in an organized outfit, just a friend and I, but I also do my best to communicate with larger outfits. I'm always in leaderchat attempting to help in whatever way I can, but I do it mostly solo/duo. I used to get told to stfu by some people since I wasn't in a large outfit, but most of those guys quit by now or have learned that I do more good than harm.

It's much easier to ask a small squad or a few solos to go and take back ghost capped territory than it is to attempt to get an outfit or platoon to do so. Same with scouting out territory, most on VS Waterson know I don't just blow smoke when I state that a facility needs defense etc, so while I may not be in an outfit I can certainly help the faction be organized in my own way.

To me issues like you described are not a problem with solo players but just general player mentality. A good example would be the TR on Waterson - They have some good players and decent outfits, but it seems like their coordination and cooperation is so terrible that they're not able to get anything done. They have plenty of outfits, plenty of zergfits, but in the end it's the individual players in those outfits who are the cause of their failures. The solo players don't even factor into the problem, IMO.

Also I personally feel that if an outfit is having trouble recruiting that's probably because the solo players are joining other outfits. That's a problem with the outfit itself and maybe it should consider merging itself into another outfit.

I will fall into the #5 category. I don't work well with others always and I know it. I can accomplish everything in PS2 that I want(for now) playing solo or in a small squad. I see no reason to join a big outfit. I don't like the restriction of having to 'go here' or 'go there' that is often the case even in the casual outfits. I prefer just to 'go' usually, and hopefully find something to kill on the way. When/if there's metagame or base changes that require coordinated groups, then I'll hop in an outfit of some sort, but for now I feel like I'm better off doing my own thing and figure out what outfits are left standing when the need to join one comes around.

MrBloodworth · 2013-03-06, 09:41 AM

Jesus, where are thees gestapo outfits that tread on the single man.

What the hell are you guys signing up for? There is much Hyperbole in here. Just say you are an Antisocial prick and be done with it.

Maybe its not that others don't play well together, but you don't play well with others. After all, we have had near a decade of games telling users "YOU ARE THE Only ONE", I think it went to some peoples heads.

Here are my outfits rules:

1. Don't be a douchebag.
2. Wed night is ops night, its a day to plan for, not a requirement.
3. Stop being a douchebag.
4. If you are online, join the squad.
5. Who ever has lead has lead, you will follow him to the maw of death, you will get your turn if you want it.

I'm way more willing to say that maybe people do not join outfits because they don't know why they would. They dont need one in battlefield after all, they are Rambo! Nothing in game really says why you should.

Rahabib · 2013-03-06, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

...
5. Who ever has lead has lead, you will follow him to the maw of death, you will get your turn if you want it....

For a lot of players, this isnt fun.

Ghoest9 · 2013-03-06, 06:39 AM

Originally Posted by Sonny

so far:

1. People generally enjoy lonewolfing and bringing havoc to the enemy behind enemy lines.

2. Some don't like outfit politics, having 'leaders' and being forced to listen to their orders. The leaders sometimes take the game too seriously, which is annoying.

3. Others just don't want to join massive zerg outfits.

All of these. Im not against being in an outfit - but these are the things that often leave me deciding solo is a better experience.
It often seems like you have to choose either zerg or mini-Napoleon if you want an outfit.

Sledgecrushr · 2013-03-06, 06:49 AM

Joining an outfit of course is a personal decision. When I joined the DD what I wanted was organisation and camaraderie. It has become more than what my wildest dreams could have conceived. If I dont want to join a outfit squad and just lonewolf it, thats ok. If I want to run a platoon those options are available to me. And Im a super busy person and only have about ten hours a week to spare, and theyve never given me shit about my limited playtime. I have been extremely satisfied with my allegiance.

Other casual players will make that decision eventually to join outfits when the outfit tools and outfit benefits roll out.

Hmr85 · 2013-03-06, 06:57 AM

There is nothing wrong with not being in a outfit. Hell even I enjoy lone wolfing from time to time. Its just that running solo however you are missing out on a lot of what makes this game shine and your at the constant mercy of the zerg.

Pella · 2013-03-06, 07:00 AM

Do you need an outfit to be good at planetside 2? And even more so to have fun?

I dont think so. This is why i hate Redditside. It's Filled with comments and ideas from people that either don't play the game or understand it. Yet they demand that they are right. And upvote things for the sake of it.

Bunch of scrubs.