this is disconcerting...

brighthand · 2012-08-04, 09:40 PM

If you have read my previous thread about 'modern shooters' you will know where I am coming from and why I would be slightly troubled by the following excerpt taken from an interview with Games Industry International:

"The Call of Duty players want to play a game where the weapons feel good, where the combat feels snappy, it feels twitchy, it feels exciting, and it feels legitimate. The weapon that I'm firing feels like a weapon. It doesn't feel like some floaty Nerf gun or something. I feel the impact, I hear the sound of the impact. I see the animation from it. We're building our game to follow that also. It would be way easier if we were just making guys running around with lasers and not worrying about that mechanic, but we're spending a ton of time on the weapons. We're spending so much time iterating that gun feeling that I think we will be able to capture those people who are used to playing a triple-A FPS. Because they're not playing a compromised FPS experience when they play PlanetSide 2."

full link here: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/article...-duty-audience

note: while the rest of the interview gives me a positive outlook, I still cringe a lttle bit at the mention of COD having any influence over PS2's gameplay and a desire to make it 'more accessible'. I have heard that too many times before, and it leads to perdition. Thoughts?

original thoughts on the matter here: http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...ad.php?t=45638

EDIT: I am NOT making a connection between gunhandling and meta game; I KNOW that there is no correlation between them. I was referring to COD's influence in general on other shooters, which can manifest itself in several different facets of the game which INCLUDES gun handling resulting in zippy fast spray and praying.

I am also clarifying my point about PS2's handling and stating that I don't expect it to be like ps1, as that would be bad. I am merely saying that several other games lost their charm owing to devs dumbing down their game to appeal to the COD crowd (be it in gun mechanics, or meta game, or whatever), and the excerpt I found intimated a possible step in that direction- which is cause for concern.

RSphil · 2012-08-04, 09:45 PM

If the weapons feel good then I'm happy. I also don't like weapons that have no effect on the player. I like them to feel real. As if
You are holding the weapon you fired. From that little bit that is what they are doing. As for the rest of the game. It looks awesome so far. Haven't seen anything I don't like. ( bar the pro7 crap lol)
Can't wait to get in and give it a try to see how everything feels and works.

darkfiretwofive · 2012-08-04, 09:52 PM

I doubt that people will play Planetside 2 to jump off a roof do a 360 spin then get a head shot on someone not using a scope, people will download and play it because they want a game that focuses on teamwork and tactics. And even if they do download it for COD like gameplay, they well soon realise that it just isn't that sort of game.

GLaDOS · 2012-08-04, 10:00 PM

What? He's talking about the way guns feel. I don't think that's going to lead to any "dumbing down" of the game.

Littleman · 2012-08-04, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by GLaDOS

What? He's talking about the way guns feel. I don't think that's going to lead to any "dumbing down" of the game.

You have to understand: some people hear "CoD" or "Battlefield" and it wasn't preceded by "not like" they instantly start writing PS2 off as another horrible clone.

I won't miss these people.

brighthand · 2012-08-04, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by Littleman

You have to understand: some people hear "CoD" or "Battlefield" and it wasn't preceded by "not like" they instantly start writing PS2 off as another horrible clone.

I won't miss these people.

I didn't say that ps2 would be a COD clone, but rather that COD and its simplification would have a bad influence on the game's core gameplay/mechanics. I would have to be braindead to see all the gameplay and read up on the info, and then think that PS2 could possibly be 'another COD clone.' I would however encourage you to think of the possibility that certain integral features of the series can be 'simplified' or dillouted in an attempt to appeal to a wider audience. i.e. less tactical options when managing logistics (this doesn't seem to be the case, but I am using it as an example).

At any rate, as long as I don't find myself zipping over to one spot, spraying some guy to death, then zipping over to another to do the same thing, with a stiff camera and uber quick handling, like a horny humming bird that just ate a pile of pixie dust.

Littleman · 2012-08-04, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by brighthand

I didn't say that ps2 would be a COD clone, but rather that COD and its simplification would have a bad influence on the game's core gameplay/mechanics. I would have to be braindead to see all the gameplay and read up on the info, and then think that PS2 could possibly be 'another COD clone.' I would however encourage you to think of the possibility that certain integral features of the series can be 'simplified' or dillouted in an attempt to appeal to a wider audience. i.e. less tactical options when managing logistics (this doesn't seem to be the case, but I am using it as an example).

It's a poor example, since all CoD really has going for it IS the gun play. Even BF doesn't offer a lot of comparisons outside of how killing implements work. And really, the meta game, the part that actually brings the complication and strategic depth to Planetside, isn't going to be affected much by how the weaponry performs, whether they work like weapons in CoD, BF, Quake, or Unreal. No, weapon performance effects the tactical level, and for what's it's worth, in Planetside 1 that always boiled down to ADADAD with the cross-hairs over the target, or some other, less standard approach, like a boomer, nade spam, the reaver, etc.

But regarding weapons handling, there is no "dumbing down" or simplifying. If anything, weapons handling across the genre has over all gotten more complicated, but regardless of that, it's really just a matter taste. I happen to like CoD's fire arms. However, they could do with a little less accuracy while ADS for the sake of customization to have another attribute to work with in PS2.

brighthand · 2012-08-04, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Littleman

It's a poor example, since all CoD really has going for it IS the gun play. Even BF doesn't offer a lot of comparisons outside of how killing implements work. And really, the meta game, the part that actually brings the complication and strategic depth to Planetside, isn't going to be affected much by how the weaponry performs, whether they work like weapons in CoD, BF, Quake, or Unreal. No, weapon performance effects the tactical level, and for what's it's worth, in Planetside 1 that always boiled down to ADADAD with the cross-hairs over the target, or some other, less standard approach, like a boomer, nade spam, the reaver, etc.

But regarding weapons handling, there is no "dumbing down" or simplifying. If anything, weapons handling across the genre has over all gotten more complicated, but regardless of that, it's really just a matter taste. I happen to like CoD's fire arms. However, they could do with a little less accuracy while ADS for the sake of customization to have another attribute to work with in PS2.

Ok. I did not make it clear that I am NOT making a connection between gunhandling and meta game; I KNOW that there is no correlation between them. I was referring to COD's influence in general on other shooters, which can manifest itself in several different facets of the game which INCLUDES gun handling resulting in zippy fast spray and praying.

I am also clarifying my point about PS2's handling and stating that I don't expect it to be like ps1, as that would be bad. I am merely saying that several other games lost their charm owing to devs dumbing down their game to appeal to the COD crowd (be it in gun mechanics, or meta game, or whatever), and the excerpt I found intimated a possible step in that direction- which is cause for concern.

BUT, as I have read and seen much more, I am inclined to think that perhaps I have nothing to fear, and the game will be the last bastion of true PC FPSing that we have all been waiting for.

...The beta will reveal all...

EDIT: and no, COD's gunplay IMO is highly unappealing. The pace is too fast, the person who sees you first will get the kill, no recoil on the guns- animations are not bad but they are sped up, and the soldier's movements are stiff. It just didn't feel all that visceral and immersive. The last COD I played was MW2.

BlueSkies · 2012-08-04, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by GLaDOS

What? He's talking about the way guns feel. I don't think that's going to lead to any "dumbing down" of the game.

dude, weapon animations ruin team work, strategy, meta game, and kittens!

NoDachi · 2012-08-04, 10:14 PM

I fail to see how this quote can worry you.

All he is talking about how he wants the guns to feel. Which is good. We want the guns to feel good.

And they do.

Salad Snake · 2012-08-04, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by RSphil

If the weapons feel good then I'm happy. I also don't like weapons that have no effect on the player. I like them to feel real. As if
You are holding the weapon you fired. From that little bit that is what they are doing. As for the rest of the game. It looks awesome so far. Haven't seen anything I don't like. ( bar the pro7 crap lol)
Can't wait to get in and give it a try to see how everything feels and works.

This. Making weapons feel more authentic (which is a valid trait even in things like lasers) is an important plus in a modern shooter, an really contributes to immersion. One of the reasons I could never get into CS, one of the "FPS greats" was that none of the guns were really exciting to shoot save the AWP and deagle (as cheap as they were). In fact, now that I think about it that's really a problem with all of Valve's shooters, as good as they are in other areas.....

Sephirex · 2012-08-04, 10:14 PM

I think the CoD comparison is he's just talking about modern FPS players in general and that's an easy one to refer to.

His actual points about gun weight and feeling are very valid.

If you've been playing PS1 recently, you'll notice the guns feel like you're shooting toys.

brighthand · 2012-08-04, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by Sephirex

I think the CoD comparison is he's just talking about modern FPS players in general and that's an easy one to refer to.

His actual points about gun weight and feeling are very valid.

If you've been playing PS1 recently, you'll notice the guns feel like you're shooting toys.

I agree with the need to make the guns feel good, but COD is not the best example of that. They don't have as much heft to them as other shooters; they are just snappy and light (ideal for 360qu1cksk0p3z). Battlefield 3's guns have heft, umph, and some recoil to them, so I would hope the guns feel more like that.

And to the other guy who keeps his salt dispenser tucked away in a dark cupboard somewhere: If you read my post on 'trendy modern shooters' (link in original post), you would see that I have a valid concern.

I must admit, that PS2 may not go that route though -In fact, with all the good stuff I have been reading and watching these past months, I am wondering how the heck could these guys mess this up. Planetside 2 just looks SO solid on all fronts.

EDIT: whoever said that I wanted it to feel like ps1? I just didn't want it to be an 'easy peasy,' I R quicksope god, spray-you-because-no-recoil-allows-me-to, noob fest of a game. BF3 is a prime example of gunhandling done right- too bad the meta game does not compare to its predecessors.

RJTravis · 2012-08-04, 10:22 PM

Hes saying that PS2 guns will feel like guns from triple-A FPS games & yes CoD is one.

CoD guns are great the guns are not the problem its the small maps & players that ruin CoD its not the guns for sure.

If the guns react & feel like CoD/BF3 then PS2 did it right.

I my self hate CoD & Bf3 was a let down but both of them have great guns & to tell you the truth if PS2 guns don't feel like CoD/MoH/BF3/CSGF the game wouldn't do very well.

I have allot of hype for PS2 & I also know they are going to be making the farm work for other bigger games.

WiteBeam · 2012-08-04, 10:30 PM

Guys. It's not going to be the same game as PS. SOE is pitching this game to console gamers. It's going to feel like CoD with red, blue and purple factions.
Even after watching hours of beta footage, people are still going to act surprised at what they see next week when they finally play it.

And producing a "twitch" style console game will bring in more money than a rehashed, arcade, ADADAD game that maybe 1000 people were playing up until last month.