Should infiltrator be the only class that can spot?

[kunzadar]

If 3d spotting is in the game, I really think the infiltrator class should be the only class that can do it. Recon is sort of their thing, and giving it to every class takes away from that.

[captainkapautz]

No, either every class is able to spot or no class is able to spot.

[Zulthus]

It'd be nice if no class could spot, since it looks like they're doing 3d spotting.

[Red Beard]

From other thread:

It seems the motivation for throwing in 3d spotting is to help noobs out, and people who don't (for whatever reason) look at the minimap. It's also been suggested that this is a compensation for lack of VOIP in game.


While I can appreciate wanting to help out newer players just running around using their normal field of vision, I think the introduction of 3D spotting helps them out, but also creates a barrier to learning. For example, I don't think anyone here would say they can't remember three 7-digit numbers, but I also bet the majority of people that read this don't know by memory the phone numbers of their 3 best friends. Why? The 3D spotter of telecommunications: cell phones!


Having said that; I think this debate may already be rendered partially obsolete. What I mean by that, is the introduction of relatively seemless in-house VOIP that can be jumped into super easily; even between strangers.

The social interaction that 3D spotting attempted to compensate for (and not particularly well I might add) has been intergrated back into gameplay to the point that spotted targets can be verbally communicated again (just as in reality), and the social nature of squads will help new players to use the minimaps (which they may not need at all, since they will be verbally conveying targets) through learning the game for the sake of maximizing squad effectiveness.

In closing, I think Mr. Higby's goal of in House VOIP may in fact have more benefits than even he realized...The handicaps from lone players being verbally isolated from other lone players will be revealed in how much better PS2's game play is, particularly amoungst the zerg.

For this reason, I think 2D spotting is more than enough, and should be limited to use by infiltrators, thus giving them their fair share of demand for inclusion within a squad.

[kunzadar]

Dude this thread is about if Infiltrators should be the only class that can spot, regardless of what type of spotting gets into the game, go back to the 3d spotting thread or post relevant material.

[Red Beard]

Originally Posted by kunzadar

Dude this thread is about if Infiltrators should be the only class that can spot, regardless of what type of spotting gets into the game, go back to the 3d spotting thread or post relevant material.

Then read the last line that I bolded and italicized for you

[JimmyOmaha]

Take away key-press 3D-spoting, and replace with a class tool that's a target designator similar to present day SOFLAM for vehicles, and binoculars for infantry. I nominate the LA to carry said devices. :]

[Resolve]

ew people actually want spotting? Have you even played BF3? ...Spotting is the death of tactical gameplay. I'm gonna sit on a tower all day spamming Q. Oh that cool spot you found? No worries i'll just remove all of your hopes of surprise attack with a simple button press. Seriously people, PS1 didn't need spotting, PS2 definitely doesn't. It'll kill immersion for me and a lot of others.

[Turdicus]

The way they have it now seems fine to me. Everyone can spot single enemies, and infiltrators look like they are going to get a special tool that they can cert into and have to carry around that will enable them to do some more powerful and advanced spotting work. Whether or not the spotting a LA can do will be shared with his squad or just help him out personally I don't know yet, but we are fairly certain infiltrators will be able to share with a larger number of people.

It gives the recon infiltrator another skillset and makes him more valuable to a squad. I like the way it is right now, and im just waiting to see how it pans out in beta

[Duddy]

I don't think saying that VOIP will be available to all is a solid justification for not including spotting (3D or not).

The assumption appears to be that people will actively and effectively call out targets, but I'm not so sure. First I somehow doubt that everyone will be talking over VOIP, second I believe that even if a large portion do that it isn't always going to be effective. I could also make the argument that not everyone is going to have VOIP turned on, but I would of thought that self evident.

Personally I want to see 2D spotting be available to all, but only spread within squad. Which means either you see it yourself and it shows up or your squad sees it and it shows up. No extending that to the empire.

As for 3D? I think that it should be available to squads, but not by default and only through an Infil. The implication being that an Infil could 3D spot for themselves (which I believe to be reasonably fair given their situation) but then be able to provide it for their squad by certing for it.

By making it by cert only you're making it a choice that a player has to make, allowing them to provide something useful to their team at the cost of something else.

[Red Beard]

Originally Posted by Duddy

I don't think saying that VOIP will be available to all is a solid justification for not including spotting (3D or not).

The assumption appears to be that people will actively and effectively call out targets, but I'm not so sure. First I somehow doubt that everyone will be talking over VOIP, second I believe that even if a large portion do that it isn't always going to be effective. I could also make the argument that not everyone is going to have VOIP turned on, but I would of thought that self evident.

Personally I want to see 2D spotting be available to all, but only spread within squad. Which means either you see it yourself and it shows up or your squad sees it and it shows up. No extending that to the empire.

As for 3D? I think that it should be available to squads, but not by default and only through an Infil. The implication being that an Infil could 3D spot for themselves (which I believe to be reasonably fair given their situation) but then be able to provide it for their squad by certing for it.

By making it by cert only you're making it a choice that a player has to make, allowing them to provide something useful to their team at the cost of something else.

I like this idea by far the best actually...Though I disagree about almost all people talking on VOIP now...as the threshold is so easy. I think the combination of the advantage differential between VOIP and someone with no microphone, combined with how easy it will be to get into VOIP, will cause people without a microphone to go out and get one, frankly. I could be wrong about that, but we'll see I guess.

EDIT:

By making it by cert only you're making it a choice that a player has to make, allowing them to provide something useful to their team at the cost of something else.

Remember that there's unlimited certs, so in long term game play, there will only be a negligible opportunity cost

[Fenrys]

My opinion is that once you have broken line of sight, you should be completely hidden from the opposition. For example, your foes don't need to know, and should not know, once you've turned a corner if you keep running, or turn around to ambush your pursuers as they come around that corner.

3d spotting is almost as bad as a wall hack or the gamma shenanigans that let people see cloakers in PS1. Its presence limits your tactical options, especially in small scale CQB, and makes the psychological game less interesting.

I think a better system would be a lazing device that could only maintain a 'spot' while the person using it has line of sight and can keep the target painted. Perhaps infiltrators would be the only ones with access to such a device, or maybe they just get one with some benefit compared to other classes (longer range, shorter lock-on time, etc...).

[Knightwyvern]

The question asked by the OP is much too simplistic. The how's and why's of the debate dictate who should be able to spot; one conversation cannot be held without the other if you expect to reach a reasonable conclusion.

[Top Sgt]

If you must have 3d Spotting

Infil only sounds fine to me. The game is already free.. let's have some type of skill curve to it.. and not let everyone be like BF games and spotted constantly all over so players just LMG hold down the trigger shooting at the spot icon.

just sayin

[Knightwyvern]

I'm ok with all classes having the ability, but in a very limited fashion in comparison to the Infil, and to a lesser degree, the Light Assault.

Honestly I'm still pondering what I think the best implementation would be; whether it be utility based, cert based, a standard ability, etc. though I am leaning away from the "QQQQ" method and more towards something based off of certs and devices such as the IFF device the Infil has access to.

I also believe that baring some very high end options that most definitely I would want to be Infil specific, I think that if an enemy is not within your LOS then it should be purely 2D spotting. I.E. if that enemy is behind a wall or big rock, you might see them on your mini map but not as a 3D icon hover over them.